Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[dragon]

But vibration can be harvested. A vibrating ferrite material will output voltage and therefore current. You can put coils around the tuning forks and gain wattage.

You are saying that load dampens output. That might be true, but my point is you could have a system independent of the input. Do you agree?

I believe near unity is achievable in which case input would only be required to sustain minor losses. This has already been proven. I also believe there are untapped sources yet to be discovered...but... a circuit that creates energy... not going to happen.

These are simply my opinion's based on my experiences with a multitude of projects over the years.

[med.3012]

Hello everyone ,




To obtain unlimited energy from the environment we need to decompose the electric phenomena to elementary pieces ...after that we need to recompose all the pieces together so we have both direction .. this is the difficulty in such open system, the bigger players are the electric and magnetic field ..the good news is they can't be separated .

in dynamic state you have no electric field without magnetic field , if we could relate both field together as a single entity we could take as much current as we can !



regards

[mikrovolt]

differentials, mixers, acoustic boxes and tuning cavities ect construct waves.

Using a sound generators and an inductive mixer at the same phase but the frequency is off slightly will cause a beat.

https://youtu.be/4M72kQulGKk?t=131

When one tuning fork's acoustic box absorbs a wave from another tuning fork

https://youtu.be/pRpN9uLiouI

With Dragon transmitter / receiver can work as an analogy because the
envelope of the carrier wave is embedded with the audio track.
Better to invert audio to positive (unidirectional )first so the diode will catch more.
In the video the capacitor also can recycle. https://youtu.be/e_gTCU2fnD8

Another novelty harvesting absorbs a deconstructed wave which is normally heat IR
some claim to structure condition a region and transform the IR.
This also involves shifting a 180 degree region.

With DS there has to be more than just novelty harvesting.

[ricards]

dragon,

I hope you don't take this on you.. Its just that when I reason to my self I tend to argue to my self.. all questions are laid out in a narative manner and pertains to non other than my self... as I see no way to elaborate a theory without reasoning. I address this to you as I see you're the one who can relate.

remember that little circuit of yours..
I have been experimenting with it quite a while now.. I've always felt like you and sky aren't getting what I was trying to do, so I just kept it to myself until I've proven it to myself. but someone is telling me to spit it out now.

sure the energy is always going down.. It is just because that has always been its nature.. to balance itself out through out a system,
temperature...
pressure...
electric potential...
etc..

If the pressure below the ocean is relieved back up into the mountains through some ways.. there will be energy..
If the Temperature down the CORE of the earth be conducted way back up here in the surface.. there will be energy..
If the Electric Potential in the Ionosphere be connected through a superconductor coil down to earth.. there will be energy..

but where exactly is energy?.. or what exactly is energy?..
ugghh headache.. cant define.. cant explain.. so I just observed it.

Going back to your circuit one thing I have observed was The Energy does not and never was "Transformed" like a conserved quantity, instead I see as, It was given more room (capacitance) in which It naturally will relieve its electrical pressure to (voltage). that is how a I see the conservation of energy. the resistance (wire / load) never did consume any energy at all!..
I made Small Experiments to verify my theory..
I charged a cap, run it through a load, a wire, a coil, a resistor, into my hand.. etc.. to charge another capacitor.
the result was the same.. the amount of energy (in volts) in the capacitors after a while.. was the same in all scenario.
12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..
If you double the volume the pressure is halved..
but the energy of (2) 6v 40mF is half the energy of 12v 40mF.. (what trickery is this).. where did 1/2 of the energy go?.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??.. maybe the conservation of energy does not apply (speculation)..

what about magnetism?..
I did another experiment, this time.. with a coil and a charged cap..
1. did the electrical energy transformed into magnetic energy..
2. or magnetism was the effect of current flow due to balancing of electric potential?..

If the case is no.1 how come If I straightened out the wire I get far less in return? after a cycle.. well the simple answer I know is the magnetism was weaker when It was straightened than it was coiled. If it was weaker.. where is the large portion of the energy went to? if it was conserved and only transformed.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??..

My mind simply refuses some explanation just to preserve a known "Law"..
the most logical explanation I can think of regarding this phenomenon is that the Higher Potential was reduced to lower potential doing work/powering a load and If you would quantify that into an amount it is called "energy" specifically "Electrical Energy". energy is a concept.. not really something..

but we always tend to use the word to describe something.. It can't be helped.

for sure the energy was greater when It was in it's higher voltage.. BUT! only and only If you use it in the same way. as in straight to ground..
but if you use it wisely (like your circuit) you would end up doing more work using the same amount of energy.

and you can return the voltage (charge) back up via transformer.. though not as high as before.. you can do the more work again.. and again.. and again.. until the potential is balanced out or the voltage is too low to power the load. I remember I tried to do some math and proved that overall work was greater and there is still energy left. but that's that..

Ilandtan,

you got to know the story. or else It wont make sense why I arrived at my theory.

now why does this have to do with don smith stuff?...
If the Energy can be used to Generate energy..
and the energy is not consumed by resistance..
and the energy can be used many times as long as the potential (voltage) is high enough..
you can generate more energy by using the same energy.. provided that YOU DON"T DESTROY THE STORAGE which is the MAGNETIC FIELD that is responsible to reuse the initial electrical energy. (had to highlight that).

don smith table top device he calls a resonant energy device.
most people think when the 'Radio' word was mentioned first thing that comes to mind is 'Transmitter' & 'Receiver' very few actually realize that Radio is a band in the frequency range...
If you would look at the device.. why is it that he will transmit to something very close.. as in magnetically coupled?..

Two Coils Two Caps, 1 is center tapped.
If you would remove the bottom part of the center tapped coil.. you'll have 2 tank circuit, if designed at the same frequency (which don gave not fully correct instruction on how to) will resonate at the same frequency..
but since you're pulsing only the primary.. the secondary will lag behind..
think of the 4 sequence of a full sine wave cycle or a damped oscillation..
Plot it.. Visualize it..
and you will see that.
when the magnetic field of the primary is formed it will induce a voltage charging the cap of the secondary coil..
when this field collapse.. at the same time the charged cap of secondary coil will conduct.. forming a magnetic field on the secondary coil.. this will compliment the collapsing of the primary coil.
now the secondary will now collapse.. but since the primary is now charged in opposite polarity.. it will conduct a opposite current.. forming a magnetic field that will compliment the collapsing of the secondary coil..
until it is back into original position..
notice that several damped oscillation are used to cause induction alternately in each coil..
where you only charge the primary tank once.
eventually this oscillation will build up since it is in resonance..

12-48v pulse on a tank circuit with a cap of 6.8 uf is very little..
but don smith table top has
2 2uF 4kv caps if only 2kv is being used that is 4 Joules of energy per discharge of the cap.. at 30khz... how much energy?..

remember ilandtan,

this is only my theory, my plan is to atleast drive something at 150v-500v..
the reason why I tell you to move away from the slayer exciter was because the coils need to compliment each other's damped oscillations.. so the energy in them does not die out fast...

the highest efficiency I got from my crappy coils and transformers was 85%..
but that is at 12-48v 6.8 uf..
the efficiency increases as the voltage increases. amp draw stays the same.

If you can see the flaw in it. tell me.

[ilandtan]

I made Small Experiments to verify my theory..
I charged a cap, run it through a load, a wire, a coil, a resistor, into my hand.. etc.. to charge another capacitor.
the result was the same.. the amount of energy (in volts) in the capacitors after a while.. was the same in all scenario.
12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..
If you double the volume the pressure is halved..
but the energy of (2) 6v 40mF is half the energy of 12v 40mF.. (what trickery is this).. where did 1/2 of the energy go?.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??.. maybe the conservation of energy does not apply (speculation)..


If you can see the flaw in it. tell me.

Ricards, Let me thank you for putting your time and effort to achieving this understanding. I comprehend why you want to maintain higher potentials that the Slayer can't provide.

Let me say how much I hate the forum format in the exchange of ideas. You can't see that my eyes glazed over after the first paragraph. I'm sorry that this maybe painful, and if you don't want to answer my questions, I don't blame you. I only know how to solve problems the old fashion way, to break them in chunks, until I get the full picture.

If I understand your objective was simply to see if capacitor energy could be transferred directly from one capacitor to another. I am not sure why there was a contention at the 1/2 the voltage. I find it helpful to view capacitor capacity as a quantity of water.

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

Am I understanding this wrong?

[bistander]

Capacitor energy

...
I made Small Experiments to verify my theory..
I charged a cap, run it through a load, a wire, a coil, a resistor, into my hand.. etc.. to charge another capacitor.
the result was the same.. the amount of energy (in volts) in the capacitors after a while.. was the same in all scenario.
12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..
If you double the volume the pressure is halved..
but the energy of (2) 6v 40mF is half the energy of 12v 40mF.. (what trickery is this).. where did 1/2 of the energy go?.. Heat??.. Waves??.. extra dimension??.. maybe the conservation of energy does not apply (speculation)..

...

If you can see the flaw in it. tell me.

Hi Ricards,

This is incorrect.

12v 40mF connected to 0v 40mF equals to 2 6v 40mF..

It is 8.48V, not 6. Remember?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20876-energy-capacitor.html#post306394

Regards,

bi

[ricards]

Ricards, Let me thank you for putting your time and effort to achieving this understanding. I comprehend why you want to maintain higher potentials that the Slayer can't provide.

Let me say how much I hate the forum format in the exchange of ideas. You can't see that my eyes glazed over after the first paragraph. I'm sorry that this maybe painful, and if you don't want to answer my questions, I don't blame you. I only know how to solve problems the old fashion way, to break them in chunks, until I get the full picture.

If I understand your objective was simply to see if capacitor energy could be transferred directly from one capacitor to another. I am not sure why there was a contention at the 1/2 the voltage. I find it helpful to view capacitor capacity as a quantity of water.

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

Am I understanding this wrong?

haha nothing to say sorry.. when I read books, I just get them to a PDF.. run it through a electronic reader, and sleep away ..
most people think I'm listening to some kind of music.

How can you tell if a capacitor is full?.. of course by comparing its voltage to the source right?..
but how can you tell if its half full?.. the reality is you can charge capacitor at any voltage until it broke down.. so when is it full and when is it half full?
my understanding is once a voltage is measured Its full.. as voltage is analogous to pressure.. pressure is ambient until its full.

the purpose of that experiment was to see if electrical energy was being transformed to other forms of energy e.g heat, mechanical.. etc. and the total energy was the same. My impression to it was No.. forgot to mention that I run a motor generator in that arrangement as well, a transformer and a pulsing circuit.. and was able to get the capacitor charged up even more. while powering a load. my calculated work in Joules vs Initial Energy in Joules was over 120% and still have energy in the caps.. can you now generate more energy?.. I've tried.. with this setup.. answer is no. simply because of the arrangement itself is not designed to do that...
that project was a whole different discussion.

you got that right.. on the water quantity analogy.. now here is the trick.. If you would now calculate the energy of those 2 capacitor using the (1/2 CV^2) you will notice you already lost half of your energy. to where?.. best bet is EM radiation. but can anyone really prove that?..

the point is this.. If energy can neither be created or destroyed.. how come we believe our loads consume energy?.. why not just trap that energy into some loop and have our loads in between to be powered many times while it slowly decays.. or spend a little to keep it alive..

by the way I see don smith table top to be doing the same, but instead of powering loads.. slowly leaking out the energy through diodes and the bottom half of the secondary coil.

[ricards]

Hi Ricards,

This is incorrect.


It is 8.48V, not 6. Remember?

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20876-energy-capacitor.html#post306394

Regards,

bi

yup Bistander,

what I posted was actual results from experiments. I lost half of that energy just by increasing the capacitance of capacitor in the circuit. where did it go?.. best bet is EM wave (not heat.) as when I coil it Up I can have magnetism to increase that 6v to around 7.2v if I remember correctly.. and this is just buy pulsing the circuit using its own energy.

[dragon]

You had a cup full of water, and it went through some plumbing(ideally no leaks) to another cup water. You opened the valve to the second cup and it will fill up only half way, because the other cup still has the other half. The system total is your original cup of water. Twice the capacity, half the pressure.

If you put a load between the two tanks of balanced water, pressurize one side, the water will flow through the load to fill the opposite tank. Remove the pressure and the tanks returns to balance through the load.

If we had a watt meter, per say, on the input pressure to move the water to the other side and a watt meter on the load that measured all activity through the load we would measure the input as 1/2 of the total energy moved through the load. No water was lost during the exchange, all was returned to it's natural state of balance.

A capacitor has all the energy it can hold regardless of its state of charge. You can rearrange the electrons to represent a charge and do work with the potential difference until balance between the plates is restored.

Likewise, wire contains all the energy we need to power our circuits - all that is lacking in either case is an economical way to rearrange electrons, that is, making one side more positive than the other. Always seeking balance...

Energy is everywhere, in a balanced state. We are the only ones that want it to be unbalanced. Nature resists our attempts... so we need to find a way to coax nature into assisting with the process.

[ilandtan]

the point is this.. If energy can neither be created or destroyed.. how come we believe our loads consume energy?.. why not just trap that energy into some loop and have our loads in between to be powered many times while it slowly decays.. or spend a little to keep it alive..

by the way I see don smith table top to be doing the same, but instead of powering loads.. slowly leaking out the energy through diodes and the bottom half of the secondary coil.

I've often wondered why you can't take a huge transformer with a large inductance, and place a resonant tank circuit capacitor for 60 Hz and pulse it, and take the output on the secondary winding of the transformer isn't that what you are saying?

Another idea is that we don't try to measure the magnetic environment, maybe that is the key to the whole problem. Keep a guass meter as we configure circuits and see if there is a configuration which saturates the magnetic field. I saw only one video that showed this to be an artifact of their circuit, indecently he measured input and output as over-unity.
It's what I expected would happen when you created a working Smith circuit.

[ricards]

I've often wondered why you can't take a huge transformer with a large inductance, and place a resonant tank circuit capacitor for 60 Hz and pulse it, and take the output on the secondary winding of the transformer isn't that what you are saying?
...

If you just load the secondary with any load, a current will flow in its coils and form a magnetic field that will resist the magnetic field of the primary.. (lenz law)
It will have different frequency depending on your load.

my theory is you should calculate your load as well to still match the resonant frequency of the primary and your source, or like don smith table top as I see it.. only benefit from the cyclic exchange of large energy activity. (bottom part of the center tapped coil.

[ilandtan]

If you just load the secondary with any load, a current will flow in its coils and form a magnetic field that will resist the magnetic field of the primary.. (lenz law)
It will have different frequency depending on your load.

my theory is you should calculate your load as well to still match the resonant frequency of the primary and your source, or like don smith table top as I see it.. only benefit from the cyclic exchange of large energy activity. (bottom part of the center tapped coil.

Has anybody ever considered any of DS devices that wasn't using resonant coils, like plasma bisected by plates or the ones directly connected to the NST. Is that all BS?

[Dwane]

.........................
......................
12-48v pulse on a tank circuit with a cap of 6.8 uf is very little..
but don smith table top has
2 2uF 4kv caps if only 2kv is being used that is 4 Joules of energy per discharge of the cap.. at 30khz... how much energy?..

Hi ricards,

I do not think your argument can be validated here with the figures you are using. (1) The exciter pulse is 30Khz not the L2 coil pulse frequency; (2) the L2 coil resonant pulse is that configuration of HV HF resonance - more than one individual sine wave - ready to do continuous work. When rectified for his "Ozone" the outputs DS calculates are greater than the 30khz you suggest. The real question has to be What Frequency was L2 resonating at.

I await your correction of my counter argument!

Regards

Dwane

[ricards]

Hi ricards,

I do not think your argument can be validated here with the figures you are using. (1) The exciter pulse is 30Khz not the L2 coil pulse frequency; (2) the L2 coil resonant pulse is that configuration of HV HF resonance - more than one individual sine wave - ready to do continuous work. When rectified for his "Ozone" the outputs DS calculates are greater than the 30khz you suggest. The real question has to be What Frequency was L2 resonating at.

I await your correction of my counter argument!

Regards

Dwane

Hi dwane,

that is why you will design your L2 and its capacitor to resonate at 30khz.
I have tried to follow Don smith designer's build guide as is I got nothing.. but when I tweak a little.. and applied known and accepted calculations, I was able to have an output.
let me give you a figure of difference in output..
without designing the TANK 2 (secondary) to resonate with my source and TANK 1 (primary) my source was using 12v at 4 amps, output is NOT even lighting the 50 watt bulb.
by designing it to resonate my source was using 12v at 2 amps and was able to light the bulb at 30-60% (just visual observation).
the difference was huge, not only I was able to lower my amp draw.. I was also able to light up a bulb dimly.

when I increase the voltage of my source the amp draw does not increase that much (approximately 0.1 amp per doubling of voltage)

I just calculated the length of the coil, coil it up to an inductance that will match a standard value capacitor at my desired frequency, and have an adjustable frequency oscillator to find that resonant point (since I calculated it I know what frequency range to go).. I use pulsed DC as my source.

[Dwane]

Hi dwane,

that is why you will design your L2 and its capacitor to resonate at 30khz.

..............

w

Hi ricards,

I know I am here on this forum to learn, however, my understanding is that DS used a 1/4 wave ration when pulsing his L2. As you have pointed out previously, it is also possible to utilise greater ratios. At 4:1 that would indicate a Resonance at a minimum of 120Khz. Am I wrong to think this? It is this significance where the increases in energy are supposd to eminate. I take it that he was using a combination of HV HF Capacitive coupling and capture of the negative going radiant spike. If this is so, then this is where his "Grail" is to be found.

Regards

Dwane