Effects of Recirculating BEMF to Coil

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Luc I have a question for you. In the latest video 12, were the temperature measurements taken at similar time periods, meaning did both rise to the same temp. in about the same amount of time or did one take longer to get to a certain temperature. Reason is, I am having trouble getting the 555 settings to heat the resistor with the same heat rise time, though it does get to the same temp. just takes a little longer. Probably my settings, though not sure.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

One other thing, could you please tell me the frequency used when just pulsing the resistor alone and duty cycle. Didn't realize you were using such a massive coil 10 lbs, wow. Thanks Luc.
peace love light
Tyson

[SkyWatcher]

Hi folks, Luc just so you know I am not in doubt of your results, I suspect I may be exceeding the rise time of my inductor which has a core, 200mohms, 14 or 16 gauge wire from a car audio crossover. So I can't recover that above the saturation limit, although your large coil with higher ohms seems to be working in that regard.
peace love light
Tyson

[sebosfato]

I would like to invite you to read my thread i'll explain resonance and recirculating current related to stanley meyer work http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html

[gotoluc]

Hi folks, Luc I have a question for you. In the latest video 12, were the temperature measurements taken at similar time periods, meaning did both rise to the same temp. in about the same amount of time or did one take longer to get to a certain temperature. Reason is, I am having trouble getting the 555 settings to heat the resistor with the same heat rise time, though it does get to the same temp. just takes a little longer. Probably my settings, though not sure.
peace love light
Tyson

Actually I didn't take note of how much time it took between straight to resistor or from coil flyback for the resistor to reach max temperature. I would guess it would heat a little faster straight to resistor. The main point is either way the resistor will eventually get to the same temperature and I think that is the important point. If it takes longer then maybe your coil has more resistance than mine or the inductance is lower. However, if it can eventualy get to the same temperature then that would support my findings.

One other thing, could you please tell me the frequency used when just pulsing the resistor alone and duty cycle. Didn't realize you were using such a massive coil 10 lbs, wow. Thanks Luc.
peace love light
Tyson

The frequency used was 145Hz and duty cycle was about 5% with coil and adjust the duty cycle (lower) to get the same batteries voltage drop (load) when connected direct.

Hi folks, Luc just so you know I am not in doubt of your results, I suspect I may be exceeding the rise time of my inductor which has a core, 200mohms, 14 or 16 gauge wire from a car audio crossover. So I can't recover that above the saturation limit, although your large coil with higher ohms seems to be working in that regard.
peace love light
Tyson

Yes, the coil size could be the main difference

and

Luc

[SkyWatcher]

Hi luc, thank you for the informative reply. Yes, now that I think about it, it wouldn't matter much if it took a little longer to get to the same temp. or higher because over time we would get the energy in joules out in form of heat and then whatever we can harness with the primary coil magnetic field would be a bonus.
peace love light
Tyson

[gotoluc]

Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a new video as a re-test of the previous test 12 to re-confirm the results that we can create a magnetic field while creating heat at next to no cost. The difference in this video is I'm using the capacitor resistor circuit that .99 suggested to be able to easily measure current draw.

The results are not quite as good as it was in test 12, however we need to keep in mind that if some of the energy is going back to the batteries I would believe this circuit would not work with that effect. You be the judge!... take note that the voltage drop on the batteries stays in the exact same range from test to test as this was the calibration reference I used in test 12 to re-adjust duty cycle between tests.

Video Link: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 13

Luc

[SkyWatcher]

Hi luc, I've been running similar tests as yours and am finding that air-core coils return the flyback much better and heat the 10 ohm 10W resistor much better. The air-core coil I am using looks much like the smaller one your planning to test next, it's 18guage at .5 ohms. Though to get the better heating in the resistor from the flyback, I am having to increase the frequency into the kilohertz range compared to around 250 hertz when running resistor directly. But so far confirms your tests, just that cores seem to be limiting the flyback somehow and its a high quality laminated core so not sure why that is.
peace love light
Tyson
edit: Luc, I have noticed with higher gauge wire like 24 gauge at 7 ohms or 20 ohms it seems it is difficult to take the flyback off without the input increasing and I've tried many different frequency and duty cycles without success. Have you noticed this as well.

[gotoluc]

Here is another video that continues the test of video 13 and is also testing an effect that user: Michael John Nunnerley of this Forum believes to occur.

Here is Michael's topic: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ment-bemf.html

Link To video: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 14

Luc

[gotoluc]

Updated

Hi everyone,

I just deleted test 15 an 16 video as I have found an error in my calculations and only just noticed it now when testing my new meter. It appears that there is a .25 Volts drop at Capacitor No. 2 then what is actually at the batteries and if we do the calculations we will quickly see that it come to the same difference I measured yesterday at 75.877 with cap circuit to 76.12 direct from batteries.

So I'm sorry to say but I was wrong and need to withdraw my conclusions.

I will let you know if I find anything more.

Luc


FYI, I have posted this in Rosemary's topic.

Hi Rosemary and everyone,

I believe I have some good news and it's thanks to a suggestion that .99 gave me some weeks ago of using a 2 capacitor and resistor circuit combination to be able to simply and accurately measure amps consumed in a pulse circuit since they are so difficult to measure.

In test 12 video:YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 12 I demonstrated that we can create a magnetic field while creating heat from a resistor using the coils flyback for about the same cost of energy then the resistor directly connected to the pulse circuit. The method I used to tune the duty cycle in each circuit to have a comparative load test is I used the voltage drop on the batteries. However .99 pointed out that that may not give a fair comparative result and suggested I use his previously suggested 2 capacitor and resistor circuit and use the voltage measured across the resistor as a way to tune the duty cycle between each circuit test. I agreed to put the cap resistor circuit together and re-test which is test 13 video: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 13

After doing test 13 I noticed that even though I used the cap circuit to calibate to the same draw between each test circuit I noticed that the battery voltage drop ended up to exactly the same on each circuit. So I wrote this message to .99

I think the way I was calibrating the duty cycle in test 12 using the battery bank voltage drop between each circuit was accurate enough and a fair comparative since we can clearly see that the voltage drop is exactly the same between each test using the cap resistor method. Would you not agree?... and if we can get the resistor to heat to a higher temperature with the identical voltage drop as with the cap resistor circuit that can only support that some of the energy is making it way back to the batteries and giving them a recharge.

When I wrote that message I got this idea.

Hey, here's a new test. I start the inductor resistor circuit with the cap resistor circuit adjusted to draw the same 25ma till the voltage drop is very stable and pull the feed connections from the caps and connect them directly to the batteries. If the battery voltage starts to rise then the recharge effect is real and valid. Agree

So I made a new video once again to test this and here it is: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 15

I did not stop the circuit after making this video and one hour has gone by. The Resistor is flipping between 67 and 68 degrees Celsius and Battery bank Voltage is still at 76.084 which is far from being at 75.877 and we need to consider that over an hour and a half of extra run time has been added.

I am convinced that without a doubt that Battery Recharging is taking place (when using Batteries) with this circuit.

Thank you Rosemary for all you time and sharing.

Luc

[poynt99]

Hi Luc. OU is down again so I'm posting this here.

The flyback does have the ability to recharge the capacitor (as well as the battery) as I showed in the Ainslie thread here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7620.msg196617#msg196617

I think your test results are as expected and as they should be. Do you think they are also? What is your conclusion from the tests so far?

The comparison between the battery voltage method and battery power method seemed to correlate this time, but the voltage method is not always going to be reliable. You will soon come across a situation where the output voltage does drop considerably for one test compared to another, and if only current is being set to the same value, you will not have equal power being drawn from the battery, and any comparison tests will be invalid. Also, to be precise, the intent of the resistor-capacitor filter method was primarily to allow power consumption from the battery to be known, not just the current.

So, the power should be calculated for each case, even though the voltage may drop only a slight amount. The goal I think would be to use the exact same amount of input power in both cases (switched direct and thru the coil) and then see what the final temperature is.

Regarding your new proposed test, I've never disputed that the battery can't receive some recharge from these inductive circuits. What I have not seen proven is that this recharge results in more energy going back into the battery then what it started with, or that the returned energy plus any energy used in heating or in the creation of a magnetic field is greater than what the battery started with.

Using SLA batteries are what many see as the golden path to overunity, and it may be so, but this is also most difficult to prove or disprove.

IMO, the absolute best and most reliable testing method to prove if battery flyback charging imparts energy gains is to use an automatic battery swapping mechanism whereby the source and charge batteries are interchanged once the source battery reaches a certain voltage, say perhaps 11.5V, and ad infinitum. If the system keeps running itself indefinitely, then obviously energy gains above unity are being achieved. If the system eventually stops swapping batteries and runs down, then obviously the system is lossy and below unity.

.99

[gotoluc]

Updated

Hi everyone,

I just deleted test 15 an 16 video as I have found an error in my calculations and only just noticed it now when testing my new meter. It appears that there is a .25 Volts drop at Capacitor No. 2 then what is actually at the batteries and if we do the calculations we will quickly see that it come to the same difference I measured yesterday at 75.877 with cap circuit to 76.12 direct from batteries.

So I'm sorry to say but I was wrong and need to withdraw my conclusions.

I will let you know if I find anything more.

Luc

Hi .99,

have you seen the new video test 15: YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 15

The test is still running after over 3 hours (connected directly to battery bank) of making the video and it's still above 76.vdc with Resistor still at 67 degrees Celsius. This is so much better compared to the 75.877vdc (using the cap resistor circuit) which also kept dropping and had over 3 hours less of running time. At the rate it was dropping at what voltage do you think it would be if it kept running? I estimate easily 1vdc drop if not more!... do you want me to make another video to show how much drop there would be after 3 hours of running with the cap circuit?

I'm convince the effect is real ... how about you

Luc

[poynt99]

Luc.

You've been monitoring the voltage as it slowly decreases over time. The question I have is this: Disregarding the slight voltage difference between the two setups, does the voltage decrease with time at about the same rate in each case?

.99

[gotoluc]

Luc.

You've been monitoring the voltage as it slowly decreases over time. The question I have is this: Disregarding the slight voltage difference between the two setups, does the voltage decrease with time at about the same rate in each case?

.99

No! it is much much slower when connected direct to the batteries. I would say as much as 10 times slower. I'm not kidding either.

Luc

[poynt99]

You'll need the ultimate battery-swapper for your next test to prove the energy gain I guess. If that's what you want to do.

I don't yet understand why the drain would be less while direct to the battery, but I'm sure there is a conventional explanation.

I'll get back to you. Until then, full ahead

.99