Roto Verter

[Peter Lindemann]

Great RotoVerter

YouTube - Double feature. Roto Verter / SSG on steriods

My SSG generator is doing wonderful too.... as you will see.

Next I need to get the rotoverter charging batteries, powering the rotoverter, and many other projects.

the EVAY Gray group on Yahoo has been most helpful, and THANK YOU ASH!!

MART

Mart,

Good work getting your RotoVerter up and operational! I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you purchase a "Kill-A-Watt" meter to further your experiments. This meter will allow you to measure the voltage, current, watts, power factor, and volt-amperes reactive going into your RotoVerter. For $35, its an excellent investment. It will increase the total amount of information you have about the running characteristics of your RotoVerter by a factor of 10.

The reason you can't run the RotoVerter from your inverter and batteries is that you cannot overcome the huge "start surge" required to get the motor up to speed. This overloads your inverter. You might need a 1500 Watt inverter to START the motor, even though it is RUNNING on about 230 Watts, once it gets up to speed.

If you have seen my DVD Electric Motor Secrets, I show how to build a Dynamometer and run a mechanical work production test. If you want to really KNOW the efficiency of your RotoVerter, I suggest you build a dynamometer and run a Dyno test while measuring the inputs with the Kill-A-Watt meter. That will tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about the efficiency of your RotoVerter.

Keep up the Great Work!!!

Peter

[theremart]

Thanks!

I did put a load on it with my hands, but this is no 1 horse power moter the spring scales needed to test this would be like out of the struts of my car

I was thinking about the following..... It was suggested to me that I should keep the motor running 24/7 instead of fighting the starting of the capacitors then turning them off.

Here is my cooked up idea... create a tank of water underground ( water then would be at 65 Deg. Then with the roto verter cool this water to just above freezing with a compressor and cooling system. I am thinking maybee 40 degrees, in 55 gal barrels buried underground . Then.. with solar power cool this with an compressor cooling system with the roto verter being driven by solar power or wind power or.... Bedini extra battery power. Or Peter's engine with Bedini's circuit charging power. ( I am reallying thinking about reconditioning some forklift batteries for this project )

Next with this cool 40 degree water, run this thru a radiator with a fan forcing this cold air into the room, via a thermostat controlled system, I am thinking like forced air...... basically I just reinvented the heatpump Except I am thinking of cooling the water underground even colder with the rotoverter. I would never shut off the rotoverter but have like a clutch that would engage disengage the roto from compressor.

As for Killa watt, that does sound like a good idea.

My inverter is a 2500 Watt inverter (5000 Watt peak ) !?! So this is starting me to think my batteries that I have are not the best. It is only 80% efficient so.. maybe the amps are not making it to the target. They came as batteries that have been recoverd with the bedini SSG. Which makes me wonder... I am thinking of testing this on my car battery, which I know is good, and has been proven to put out amps.

I am considering running two of my golf cart batteries down to 10 V then putting on another battery that I have that charges only to 4V so this would be the top of the line of what the inverter will accept to run, I tried 17V but it refused to turn on.

maybe I need to have only the start cap on when I fire it up? I have had all the caps on when i have been running it to start.

Next project is to get an computer controlled battery swapper. My dream is to be able to at will connect batteries to 6, 12, 24, 36 Volt in combinations and swap them at will with either a Bedini wheel ( which would be self starting, 3 coils with neos ) , rotoverter, Bedini Solid state. I am begging to think the math is telling me if I can run this Rotoverter at %10 of its normally energy, then hooking up a second motor and
getting 70% of its normally energy back out as a generator is reasonable to me. Thus I should have an Extra %55 of energy left to loop the system and put a load on to balance it. (( all in theory ))


If this is the case, then I pay the $500.00 and invest in ceramic bearings for the motors so this system would run 24/7 generating energy that 1. I could charge a forklift sized battery to power my home and my future electric car.
I never leave home, so may just skip the car 2. I could convert this energy to cold/heat for my cooling needs then store this for on demand use (sorta like a capacitor for heat or cold ) 3. I could then sell this energy back to the Utility company or use for my own industry per say a bio desiel or alcohol still. I like alcohol because it is less toxic to deal with.... and...... THERE IS ALWAYS DEMAND FOR ALCOHOL he he

Mart,

Good work getting your RotoVerter up and operational! I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you purchase a "Kill-A-Watt" meter to further your experiments. This meter will allow you to measure the voltage, current, watts, power factor, and volt-amperes reactive going into your RotoVerter. For $35, its an excellent investment. It will increase the total amount of information you have about the running characteristics of your RotoVerter by a factor of 10.

The reason you can't run the RotoVerter from your inverter and batteries is that you cannot overcome the huge "start surge" required to get the motor up to speed. This overloads your inverter. You might need a 1500 Watt inverter to START the motor, even though it is RUNNING on about 230 Watts, once it gets up to speed.

If you have seen my DVD Electric Motor Secrets, I show how to build a Dynamometer and run a mechanical work production test. If you want to really KNOW the efficiency of your RotoVerter, I suggest you build a dynamometer and run a Dyno test while measuring the inputs with the Kill-A-Watt meter. That will tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about the efficiency of your RotoVerter.

Keep up the Great Work!!!

Peter

----

[jason]

Hi Mart,
RV is addictive so use in moderation! You may have to adjust the value of your “start”caps as well to get the lowest start up surge. Make sure your battery is big enough and the leads going to the inverter are big enough.

Konehead has an easy prony brake test to make: http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/m...haftpower.html

Good luck,

Jason

[theremart]

RE: Prony brake.

Yes, he is the dude that got me started in this to begin with. ( the owner of that web page ) I noticed that he was in the video with Peter on the EV gray motor. ( another interesting video that Peter has (insert shameless plug here ) ) But he is in the know, and I am only starting to start to see how far ahead of me he is!

So much cool stuff, so little time, I am addicted to the possiblity of saving energy and have some to spare.

mart

Hi Mart,
RV is addictive so use in moderation! You may have to adjust the value of your “start”caps as well to get the lowest start up surge. Make sure your battery is big enough and the leads going to the inverter are big enough.

Konehead has an easy prony brake test to make: http://www.geocities.com/koneheadx/m...haftpower.html

Good luck,

Jason

[jason]

RV single phase

After you get a hang of it and want to try something (for energy saveings) you can RV single phase motors as well. My drill press is Rv'd, it has an old 1/3hp motor. Draws about 100 watts (while drilling wood)and no noticable defrence. I don't rember the exact figures but it used to use around 540 watts (no load).


Jason

[Peter Lindemann]

Power Factor Correction

After you get a hang of it and want to try something (for energy saveings) you can RV single phase motors as well. My drill press is Rv'd, it has an old 1/3hp motor. Draws about 100 watts (while drilling wood)and no noticable defrence. I don't rember the exact figures but it used to use around 540 watts (no load).


Jason

Jason,

Placing the correct capacitor in parallel with the windings of an induction motor is NOT something that was invented by Hector! This has been standard practice in the industry for over 100 years. It's called Power Factor Correction. This is why I suggested Mart purchase the proper meter so he could see all of these things.

I don't wish to throw cold water on the RotoVerter, but the technique is really NOTHING more than Power Factor Correction combined with a method to run a 3-phase motor on single phase power. ANY induction motor REQUIRES a certain amount of REACTIVE POWER to run properly. When you purchase this reactive power from the utility, it costs a lot. It is just as easy to PRODUCE your own reactive power LOCALLY with a capacitor in parallel with the windings. This saves a lot of money and lowers the total amount of power purchased from the utility to run the motor. This is the savings you experience.

Peter

[jason]

Power Factor Correction Hector

Peter,
I don't think I see the cold water. When you use DC into an inverter you take power factor out. Measure DC volts and DC amps in, no power factor to correct? I have done many tests with small and large motors. A few caps and people can save money. It's simple stuff and you can use un-modified off the shelf parts.


I don't think anyone has claimed putting caps on motor windings was invented by Hector. He did disclose the Roto Verter which is much more then a motor with a few caps to get a 3 phase to run on single phase. I don't think it is an RV until the motor is properly tunned.

Jason

[jason]

You are right...

Peter,
Placing the proper cap parallel to the line in on a single phase motor is not really an “RV” conversion. To Rv a small motor you need to lower the voltage in by approx. ¼ of the motor rating, then tune with capacitance.

Jason

[Peter Lindemann]

Tuning Single Phase Motors

Peter,
Placing the proper cap parallel to the line in on a single phase motor is not really an “RV” conversion. To Rv a small motor you need to lower the voltage in by approx. ¼ of the motor rating, then tune with capacitance.

Jason

Jason,

YES!!! Induction motors operate by locking the rotor to the rotating magnetic field of the stator. Most loads do not require the magnetic field to be at full strength to achieve the desired mechanical power output. Lowering the input voltage to the motor with a Variac is a simple test anyone can do to prove this principle. Most drill press motors will run quite well on 60 volts input. Cutting the Voltage in half also cuts the current in half, which cuts the Power input by 75%! Once the motor is Power Factor Corrected for this voltage, the motor will appear to run on NEARLY NOTHING!!!! And of course, that is the point.

I applaud Hector for encouraging people to run these experiments, but the RotoVerter is an EFFICIENCY technique, not an OU technique. The Reactive Power circulating in the LC tank circuits can be converted to Real Power, using methods discovered by Tesla, but that is another matter entirely.

When you run these systems on Inverters from batteries, other factors come into play. Most inexpensive inverters produce a wave form called a "Modified Sine Wave". This is actually a 50% duty cycle square wave that rises to the true RMS voltage of the system, which is 160 Volts for a 120 Volts AC system. The LC reaction to this is similar to being supplied with sine waves, but not exactly the same. The loading on the supply side is pretty intense on the inverter and the batteries, as it draws large surges followed by null times, especially on start up to charge all the capacitors. You need some expensive equipment to see all of these things happening, like a current probe on a digital oscilloscope.

Anytime you can run a piece of equipment with an 80% energy savings, its worth doing, and these techniques CAN DO THAT!!!!

Calling it "RVing" a motor is a little misleading, however. That's my personal opinion.

Teach as many people about these things as will listen, and keep up the great work.

Peter

[ashtweth]

Hi Guys on the surface the RV looks like what Peter described and he is right to a degree, how ever the concept is more use of impedance matching and frequency adjusting. The concept of the RV is not just power factor correction or the Steinmetz circuit.

With the RV we do the same as the Steinmetz circuit., except for ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE, it is run at 1/4 rated voltage which makes the huge difference of correct impedance match,broad banding, magnetic amplification, rotary effect, etc. In addition we do tuning to PF=1 in RV, and PF=0 in alternator. The end results are not like a Steinmetz circuit.

We do a good job so far of explaining this in the compilations,
Roto Verter

it's very clear in there. There are experiments we have done which are based on more then just PF . But I think we need to do a better explanation and video as we have given Peter and prob others the wrong idea.We have a new video coming which will clear all this up.

regards
Ash

[Peter Lindemann]

Open to Learning More

Hi Guys on the surface the RV looks like what Peter described and he is right to a degree, how ever the concept is more use of impedance matching and frequency adjusting. The concept of the RV is not just power factor correction or the Steinmetz circuit.

With the RV we do the same as the Steinmetz circuit., except for ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE, it is run at 1/4 rated voltage which makes the huge difference of correct impedance match,broad banding, magnetic amplification, rotary effect, etc. In addition we do tuning to PF=1 in RV, and PF=0 in alternator. The end results are not like a Steinmetz circuit.

We do a good job so far of explaining this in the compilations,
Roto Verter

it's very clear in there. There are experiments we have done which are based on more then just PF . But I think we need to do a better explanation and video as we have given Peter and prob others the wrong idea.We have a new video coming which will clear all this up.

regards
Ash

Ash,

Do please excuse me, but what does "broad banding", "magnetic amplification" and "rotary effect" mean in relation to running induction motors? In my world, these are just JARGON terms, that mean nothing! If you want these terms to mean something, then you MUST define these terms for the rest of us!

If there is more to the RV than Power Factor Correction, then I am interested in learning about it. So far, I have seen NO EVIDENCE to support this idea.

Lowering the input voltage AND Power Factor Correcting are still ordinary methods that have been around for 100 years. PFC increases the efficiency of the motor. Lowering the input voltage does not increase the efficiency of the motor, but it will make the motor run COOLER.

What am I missing here, Ash?

Peter

[jason]

OU-RE v6.1

Peter,

"If there is more to the RV than Power Factor Correction, then I am interested in learning about it"
Here is a start: http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf

"If there is more to the RV than Power Factor Correction, then I am interested in learning about it. So far, I have seen NO EVIDENCE to support this idea."

So do like the rest of us and read a little and BUILD IT. I am sure David's neon charger would be no problem for you. Have you seen Brains looped Lawn mower? How about Kones OU Prony test? How about my OU prony test? Have you read about Norman's OU test? Transverter?

"The Reactive Power circulating in the LC tank circuits can be converted to Real Power, using methods discovered by Tesla, but that is another matter entirely."

So, by your own words you think there might be something more then PFC but the you say there is not, which is it?

"Anytime you can run a piece of equipment with an 80% energy savings, its worth doing, and these techniques CAN DO THAT!!!!"

If it's worth doing, have you tried it?


"JARGON terms" yes they seem to be for most people. You can start learn what they mean here: http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf

Rv is simple to try, hard to understand. Tricky to get OU. Not imposible. Some motors can have OU with PM alone, others need an alternator or PM rotor.

Jason

[Aaron]

RV doc

Please keep this forum civilized

I started reading the document...I do not believe radiant is RF, but the RF may be an effect or symptom of the presence Radiant potential but is not the radiant itself. Anyway, that is my opinion and I'm only 5 pages into it.

Anyway, it is late and I'll continue reading later.

[Peter Lindemann]

Thanks for the Link

Peter,

"If there is more to the RV than Power Factor Correction, then I am interested in learning about it"
Here is a start: http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf

"If there is more to the RV than Power Factor Correction, then I am interested in learning about it. So far, I have seen NO EVIDENCE to support this idea."

So do like the rest of us and read a little and BUILD IT. I am sure David's neon charger would be no problem for you. Have you seen Brains looped Lawn mower? How about Kones OU Prony test? How about my OU prony test? Have you read about Norman's OU test? Transverter?

"The Reactive Power circulating in the LC tank circuits can be converted to Real Power, using methods discovered by Tesla, but that is another matter entirely."

So, by your own words you think there might be something more then PFC but the you say there is not, which is it?

"Anytime you can run a piece of equipment with an 80% energy savings, its worth doing, and these techniques CAN DO THAT!!!!"

If it's worth doing, have you tried it?


"JARGON terms" yes they seem to be for most people. You can start learn what they mean here: http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RE-OU-v6_1.pdf

Rv is simple to try, hard to understand. Tricky to get OU. Not imposible. Some motors can have OU with PM alone, others need an alternator or PM rotor.

Jason

Jason,

Thanks for the link. I have seen this paper before, but it was good to see it again. In my OPINION, this paper represents what is WRONG with the entire RV project, as I understand it. The author has simply "cut and pasted" text from various sources, without attribution to the real authors, and spun a yarn of Biblical Proportion! A simple case in point is found in section 2.2 on Page 4. This text is lifted VERBATUM from MY WEBSITE, with the addition of the paragraph about Hector. I see no footnotes, here! So, I know who wrote most of that section. I see other paragraphs with huge sections lifted from Tom Bearden's work, as well.

If you have seen my DVD Tesla's Radiant Energy, I quote Tesla as saying that RE is Longitudinal Waves of compressed ELECTRO-STATIC potential. To equate this with RF (radio frequency transverse electromagnetic waves) is historically inaccurate.

I do not wish to put too fine a point on this, but Dan Combine ("author" of this paper) has no idea what he is talking about.

Tell you what. I am going to bow out of this thread and let you guys move on with your experiments. There IS a lot to learn in this field and I only want to encourage that learning. I do not want to be a focus of dissent.

Best wishes,

Peter

[theremart]

RV... more than a motor home

Ok, now I have a RV, I am thinking next step. I guess that would be to get this RV working from my batteries.

Just to double check things, here is my start caps ( I have 3 of them ) hooked up in parallel..

64-77 MFD 220 VAC START CAPACITOR

Surplus Center Item Detail

Again the way I started it, is I had all the capacitors on, then pluged into directly the motor....

I am wondering should I have another switch past the capacitors so I could first charge the capacitors, then flip the switch on to the motor...