Figuera Device, Part G Continuum.( Serious Builders Only)

[marathonman]

Pics

UPDATE TO ALL;

Postimage dot org is going down soon be prepared.


MM

[marathonman]

Thread

Post deleted for integrity of thread.

MM

[marathonman]

Opinion not needed

Post was deleted for integity of thread.
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thank you and have a nice day
MM

[marathonman]

Eddy currants

According to my research the whole reason Figuera chose DC is that it is vastly superior to AC to power the electromagnets in this device. since he is not reversing the flow, the electromagnets it will not produce eddy currants like AC would that rob power from reverse currants and heat. thus by using DC he was left with extremely efficient electromagnets that not only do not reverse polarity (no eddy currant) but also no hysteresis to deal with. the graph below is an example of pure iron hysteresis curve. not only is the curve unbelievably thin but there is no reversal of currant so the electromagnet operates in the top quadrant remaining extremely efficient at all times, unreachable by AC. so we have no hysteresis or eddy currants in the primaries, that is why Figuera chose pure iron for his primaries, biggest bang for the buck. but unfortunately pure iron cost are completely outrageous and we are forced to use laminated cores

unfortunately we have both in the secondary core so it would be advisable to use laminated as eddies and hysteresis are live and kicking. this is why the primaries and secondaries are separate.

last pic is for calculating induction in a toroid. i am thinking Figuera calculated his inductance statically then varied it dynamically as the brush moves. this would not change the currant reduction calculations just changing contact points dynamically on the fly thus constant currant variatiing in complete unison.
i have been confused on how to calculate induction in part G but no more. think about it, why would the calculation change just because you changed contact points, they wouldn't. as long as your static calculations in part G are correct the dynamic currant increase/decrease remain the same. all you are doing is changing contact points over time.

just to tell you how much money i save on wire. at Temco, they want $133.00 for 10 lbs of 18 awg Gp 200 wire. at EIS i paid $68.00 for 9.8 lbs of the same. that is crazy savings if you ask me. plus EIS warehouse is only a few miles from my house. guess who i shop at. be fore warned EIS website is horse and buggy slow as in Amish country.

https://shop.eis-inc.com/sap(bD1lbiZjPTAwMQ==)/bc/bsp/sap/zeis2/index.htm?prod_area=442

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MM

[marathonman]

Part G

CORNBOY;

QUOTE; "so what i gather from your explanation is that we are dealing with an almost dead short circuit for a very short time ?."

Yes in a sense when at N or S are high for 2 plus milliseconds for 50 or 60 Hz. this will be the bang part prom the primaries, peaking for max output but to short of a time for currant to do damage through heat.

QUOTE; "If that is the case we should ALL, have a heavy switch to engage the external power source, ONLY after the commutator is brought up to speed."

Yes, if using high voltage, if low voltage i would not worry about it.
The delay is only for seconds at most. also connection made from the output back to the field magnets through part G has to be separately operated off the output with it's own switch so you can turn it off or leave it on with or with out an external working load.

QUOTE; "Also please correct me if i am wrong, the feedback from the primaries into part G creates a resistance to incoming external current?."

yes, if referring to original starting supply and the second secondaries incoming pressure as it is only used to replace losses occurred from core, heat and wire losses which are little. it will self regulate if pressure drops. of course the starting supply can be removed.


SHADOW;

Very wise to follow these excellent builders if using mechanical switching keeping in mind all that i have revealed.


Figuera


MM

[Cornboy 555]

My part G wire is .4 rectangle wire which might be a little to wide as we will see as i have only 16 winds but my core is 5 plus inches deep = a lot of core exposure. my primaries are 18 awg, two separate winding's.( parallel ) this is what i have and all i have. if i had the money and or wire i would rather wind my primaries with 14 awg but all i have is a 10 lb spool of 18 awg wire.

the reason my wire is so wide was i planed on a mechanical part G but changed my mind after i bought wire to switch to electronic timing to mimic brush rotation. also the commutator bars in figueras patent are actual thick winding"s on a core. my suspicion was confermed that the wire count was low from hanon's video and my own test i conducted thus confermed this to be true. 1/4 turn of the variac using DC was all it took to vary the currant.

the whole philosophy behind the madness is why shouldn't the primaries be the least ohmage as possible as part G controls the currant. so this is why the primaries should be lowest as possible to attain the highest magnetization as possible.

the primaries are specifically there to be "ELECTROMAGNETS", NOT GOVERN CURRANT so why not design them to do there job the greatest they can be. so basically if you can get away with it....zero ohms. imagine that. if i had three inch length copper coductor to wrap it with i would do it.

when the primaries are at peak currant, they are there for only 2.08 miliseconds (USA 60 hz) 2.5 miliseconds ( European 50 hz) at 16 figuera intervals. at this length of time almost no amount of currant can do damage to wires (WITHIN REASON) so wind your primaries to take advantage of this peak with no adverse affects. ie. biggest bang for your buck as to say.

part G was made to control the currant NOT THE PRIMARIES so thus we need to configure the primaries with as little resistance and self inductance as possible allowing PART G TO DO IT'S JOB as it so wonderfully does.

do you get my drift.

I love part G.

MM

Thanks MM, so what i gather from your explanation is that we are dealing with an almost dead short circuit for a very short time ?.

If that is the case we should ALL, have a heavy switch to engage the external power source, ONLY after the commutator is brought up to speed.

Also please correct me if i am wrong, the feedback from the primaries into part G creates a resistance to incoming external current?.

Just trying to get my head around the theory before i start my build.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Shadow119g]

Thank you MM and UFO!
I will try out what I have because I have it, but I am really looking for more guidance.
I also just ordered the brushes and commutator like Cornboy and Cadman as I made an eight count commutator before.
Thanks again,
SHADOW

[marathonman]

Part G

Part G is the sum of all smaller part adding up to part G plus head room including all power used for electronics and or motor so yes it will be ok. you have to take into consideration of how many winding's your part G will use to get your proper currant window ....ie highs and lows. just remember it will not take a lot of winding's to get currant variation. i myself would go for the smaller toroid and stack them to get proper va rating.
unfortunately i haven't the math prowess to calculate that at this time. am working on that as we speak. both will work, you just need to decide on amperage used, wire size and number of turns.

i have fliers out for a geek math wiz but two have failed so far. so for now i am guessing but i know i am close. when i get my timing board assembled i will test it and go from there.

that is the best advice i can give for now.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

About Toroid Core...

Hey Cadman, MM,

I got a question...

Part# 120 is 1867 VA @ $32,97 (Spec's 3.25 ID/5.5 OD/2.0 HT)

Part# 90 is 824 VA @ $19.75 ea (2.5 ID/ 4.5 OD/ 1.6 HT) and we need two at least.

Can I get just one Part# 120 and exceed it for like 200VA?

Anyways Part G VA number is based on Primary Cores, so I cold make them bigger if needed, since straight rods I get them locally...


Thanks


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

@Ufo,
MM posted the core source a long time ago, Bridgeport Magnetics. These are what I have
Toroidal Core PN# 90
Very inexpensive at $19.75 each.

About my motor; I tried one of those cheap little 12V Goldmine motors and the amp draw was actually higher than this scooter motor, and it overheated at lower RPMs. So the scooter motor is actually a good choice for me, especially since I already had it. Overkill it may be but it runs long and cool.
Besides, if the generator can't spare 30 to 60 watts for the motor then what's the point? After all we're not trying to build the worlds most expensive night light.

CM

Hello Cadman,

Thanks for link!!...btw, that site is kind of slow or is it me?

Yeah, some small motors, basically the ones for R/C Hobbies are wound with too heavy wire...for their size...they are batteries burners...but super fast...we do not need that...amps rises to skies in the minimal mechanical load...I used the Radio Shack type which is higher resistance wire and it don't climb up that fast.

But you are right...we should be able to afford moving that scooter motor and even an Imperial P56 Body...with the output generated...

But hey...MM is building such a "Night Light"...it is gonna shine like 12:00 Noon shiny and sunny day...on a midnight no moon darkness...

Just kidding MM...

I am gonna test first the Primary-Secondary Induction (In-Output) comparison (Proof of Main Concept)...using resistors first, till I get my Toroid for Part G.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

UFOP;

First of all Thank you, being ripped off is so violating.

It is a terrible feeling...I have nightmares back and forth on that matter...even though I have CCTV Cams with Alarm System...plus I sleep with my "Insurance" which is a 40 Caliber Glock, with a 14 round long clip...

The feeling to arrive home and see it is done already...is a hack of a bad feeling.

Second, if you look at the spacing of the vertical commutator you will notice it is very narrow and in my opinion will accommodate your roller brush. after viewing both zoomed in the roller seams to be able to span both contacts. even if you do get spikes it can easily be changed out. or even staggar the second rollor 1/32 or 1/16 inch either forward or backwards to have one make contact first then the second. ???

just something to consider my friend.

Thanks, I will have to go in further detail about it...

i too knew about the length to width ratio but i didn't know it was 3 to 1. i always thought your field would only extend as far out as your length of core but i could be wrong. every magnet i tested, the magnetic field would only be detectable out as far as the length of the magnet. my two inch long neo's project a field detectable to 2 inches.


MM

Yes it was 3:1 ratio cited as a reference found by Du Moncel experiments (I believe)...

About the Spatial Volume of the Electromagnet...as you have been saying all along...it depends on its capacity and response to build a stronger field by low resistance and thick gauge wire.

Related to the length of field expansion...you must realize that it expands evenly at both poles and from the exact center of electromagnet core. This could be seen clearly by setting E-Magnet on top of color CRT...then running fluctuating currents.

In Figuera Flash Currents fluctuations plus Part G doing the job...we can afford to use those low resistance heavier gauge spec's...while not applicable to Exciter Fields on typical generators which are running Max at all times...so in order to avoid heating, they must have higher resistance / much finer wire...this also leads to higher Voltage requirement to raise the proper field to Induce Secondaries Fields.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[marathonman]

My Part G

And getting worse by the year. younger people now a days are sorry individuals. no class or shame at at all

1600 va total, sounds like someone actually listened.

The pic below is basically my design. the wire count is low as my core is 5 inches deep giving me a loop circumference of 12 inches and a length of around 16 feet. part G's Set N and S contacts are on the botton.
i ordered a new camera cable so as soon as it comes in i will post my part G and my primaries. cable cost 4.95 shipping included.
(sorry fellas)



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MM

[Cadman]

MM,
Lock it up tight or nail it down, otherwise consider it gone. Sad isn't it? Sorry it had to happen to you. Sometimes it seems like the universe loves to kick a person when they're down, ya know?

That toroid winding pictured is temporary, just for tests. When it was wound I had no firm plan for the final configuration so I left plenty of wire hanging off. I'm thinking that when it comes time to rewind it I'll use a heavy gauge MTW stranded wire unless heating is an issue. Much more flexible and easier to wind.

@Ufo,
MM posted the core source a long time ago, Bridgeport Magnetics. These are what I have
Toroidal Core PN# 90
Very inexpensive at $19.75 each.

About my motor; I tried one of those cheap little 12V Goldmine motors and the amp draw was actually higher than this scooter motor, and it overheated at lower RPMs. So the scooter motor is actually a good choice for me, especially since I already had it. Overkill it may be but it runs long and cool.
Besides, if the generator can't spare 30 to 60 watts for the motor then what's the point? After all we're not trying to build the worlds most expensive night light.

CM

[marathonman]

I to thought his motor was way overkill but i was not about to say otherwise.

UFOP;

First of all Thank you, being ripped off is so violating.

Second, if you look at the spacing of the vertical commutator you will notice it is very narrow and in my opinion will accommodate your roller brush. after viewing both zoomed in the roller seams to be able to span both contacts. even if you do get spikes it can easily be changed out. or even staggar the second rollor 1/32 or 1/16 inch either forward or backwards to have one make contact first then the second. ???

just something to consider my friend.

i to knew about the length to width ratio but i didn't know it was 3 to 1. i alway thought your field would only extend as far out as your length of core but i could be wrong. every magnet i tested, the magnetic field would only be detectable out as far as the length of the magnet. my two inch long neo's project a field detectable to 2 inches.


MM

[Ufopolitics]

Turning out to be such a beautiful Thread!!

Hello to All,

It is really encouraging to see so many great people gathering to accomplish same device...excellent!

@MM, sorry about your loss!!...but don't worry, you will make it up soon.

@Cornboy...Thanks for posting the Commutator place (EURTON ELECTRIC60V/10 Amps PSU...which I am going to use just to run Part G and Primaries at around 50V/4 Amps Max.

I still have to set an additional bench for it plus get some higher gauge probes and clamps to hook it.

One important info I was reading at Thompson's Book on Electromagnets...is that a "Rule of Thumb" for Generators Exciters dimensions are based on Length to be about three times its thickness (never less)...As the books warns that "Flat Type" (Thickness being larger than Length, or "Disc, Flat Pancakes Shapes") Electromagnets are NOT good, because of the Higher Magnetic Losses (Leaks) between their own polarities by being so close.

I believe those above are very important info for our Primaries Core builds.


Regards to All


Ufopolitics