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  • Top, Bottom laying flat, top, bottom standing up?

    This one is not the same as Clarence circuit. This one has
    special primaries. very interesting.

    Well the windings show both primaries CW but the words say
    Both CW and CCW. I am a seeing a conflict in this dia.

    Remember stand your toroids upright on edge first, then starting
    at the top portion on the winding follow it downward.

    In this picture the windings of the primaries SAY CW AND CCW
    but the pictures has them both going CW, same direction.

    I see now that this is not Clarence diagram. This is the B&L boys and they deliberately put conflicting info into this document.


    Am I the only one who sees this?

    So we will need to here from others.

    Last edited by BroMikey; 04-21-2015, 09:17 AM.

    Comment


    • Finally

      Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
      Next I did what I was told to do. Clarence said to do this several
      times and i failed to give proper attention to his foto.

      I have enlarged and grey scaled his foto into what looks more
      like a drawing now, so we can get our focus off of the pretty colors
      and more onto the actual path the the secondary windings take.

      I have used a yellow drawing pencil to chart the direction of
      each winding. THEY ARE BOTH CCW WOUND.

      I never noticed this before now and I repeat the secondaries
      are both wound exactly the same as Clarence has stated before.

      Sorry Clarence I don't know what's wrong with
      me sometimes. I would start up my violin of troubles and excuses
      but I hate to bust out balling nation wide

      Okay back to the drawing board. My diagram is out of wack and I
      will fix it now. I do not know if the primaries are CCW or CW but
      it does not appear to be significant.

      What is important is that Clarence got me to look close and the 2 CCW secondaries must be crisscross connected, so I will correct the Diagrams.

      Hello BRO,

      LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN LOUD AND CLEAR..................

      1. the primaries are wound CLOCKWISE by the FACTORY!!!!!!!!!!

      2. the primaries ALWAYS have to be wound CLOCKWISE!!!!!!!!!!

      3. IT IS MAJOR SIGNIFICANT that the primaries be wound CLOCKWISE!!!!!

      4. you will ALWAYS have to wind the # 4 black wire secondary COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!!!!!

      5. this PROPER winding IS WHAT KILLS THE LENZ EFFECT and is the ONLY
      THING THAT MAKES THIS WHOLE SYSTEM WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      without having accomplished this PERFECTLY AS I HAVE STATED MANY
      TIMES you will just be PERMANENTLY SCREWED! GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!


      and yes LOOKING CAREFULLY is a very GIANT HELP!

      thanks for listening,

      Clarence

      Comment


      • Spining _ spining

        Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
        Top, Bottom laying flat, top, bottom standing up?

        This one is not the same as Clarence circuit. This one has
        special primaries. very interesting.

        Well the windings show both primaries CW but the words say
        Both CW and CCW. I am a seeing a conflict in this dia.

        Remember stand your toroids upright on edge first, then starting
        at the top portion on the winding follow it downward.

        In this picture the windings of the primaries SAY CW AND CCW
        but the pictures has them both going CW, same direction.

        I see now that this is not Clarence diagram. This is the B&L boys and they deliberately put conflicting info into this document.


        Am I the only one who sees this?

        So we will need to here from others.

        HELLO,

        there are NO conflicts in the diagram. and this is NOT a diagram made by B&L. It is a rendering made by member 00! read it!!!!
        the PRIMARIES ARE BOTH CLOCKWISE!! stay AWAY from saying ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN THAT FACT! when the two IDENTICAL TOROIDS are set next to one another and ONE OF THEM IS SPUN IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE OTHER YOU GET WHAT IS NEEDED!!!! NOTHING HAS BEEN PHYSICALLY CHANGED WITH RESPECT TO THE TOROIDS AT ALL!!!

        It is extremely difficult to make a DRAWING accomplish what a PHOTO can do in a heartbeat.

        a drawing correctly done would show the # 4 wires in a crisscross pattern which would cause some to think it involved a figure 8 event WHICH IT DOES NOT!!! and then some would get their tit thrown over their left shoulder
        and we would be off to another flip flap discussion!

        THAT IS WHY I LIKE PHOTOS!!!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
          Dude keep looking at it. This is the updated drawing. follow the wires with your finger around as you wind from the top down. The top down.

          Start at the TOP. Did you see it? CW and CCW? You will.The primaries are opposite wound.
          I see it yes thanks, not a problem. Your drawing does show a CW and CCW wind. But as you have now noticed yourself and Clarence has just explained your drawing (#4 wire) does differ from his picture. I agree with Clarence in a drawing it would show a criss-cross pattern but Clarence if we are to use BroMikey's drawings as a guide then it needs to be show that way otherwise a correct interpretation of the drawing by someone with a good 3 dimensional mind like myself will cause a mistake.

          Thanks for the help!
          When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. Its only difficult for others. Its the same when you are stupid.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by clarence View Post
            Hello Fjohnnyb,

            1. the toroid primaries are NOT WOUND DIFFERENTLY!!! PERIOD!
            they are EXACTLY THE SAME!

            2. IT IS THE WAY YOU ORIENT THE TOROIDS TO EACH OTHER THAT ACHIEVES THE CW AND CCW EFFECT THAT IS NECESSARY!!!!!!!!!

            3. when you wind the #4 wire secondary as I have showed you (PHOTO ATTACHED AGAIN) you ESTABLISH THE CW AND CCW on EACH of the toroids!!!!!!

            4, after you have wound each secondary PROPERLY then take BOTH THE
            toroids and place them side by side IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!
            then take the left toroid assembly and spin it around in FRONT of the
            other one!!!! what you have accomplished by this is to ORIENTATE the
            toroids in the PROPER MANNER OF CW/CCW - CW/CCW.

            5. now connect top #4 to top#4
            now connect bottom #4 to Bottom #4

            their is NO CROSSING FROM BOTTOM TO TOP OR TOP TO BOTTOM AT ALL!!!!!!

            I fail to understand what is so difficult for you to understand this SIMPLE process.

            JUST LOOK AND STUDY THE PHOTOS!

            best to all,

            Clarence
            Clarence thank you for your reply. It is not that I or we do not understand you in fact I understood you perfectly. What I was questioning was BroMikey's drawing and as you have now said yourself, the primary coils are both wound the same. His drawing however indicates that one coil is wound CW and one CCW and states it both in the letters (CW & CCW) and the way he drew the windings. Since you approved of his drawing (you obviously missed it too - which is OK we are all human...) I simply tried to interpret the drawing based on your words Clarence and then the drawing did not make sense. Following your and BroMikey's last few posts my questions turn out to be well founded.

            You sounded a bit upset with my questions. Please don't be, I don't mean to judge you or insinuate that you don't know what you are talking about. I just wanted to understand why what you said and what the drawings show were not the same thing. In the end it will help everyone because they won't make the mistake shown on the drawing.

            BroMikey, I am very grateful for your efforts with the drawings, it does make things a lot easier to picture. Please don't see my questions as insults but rather as constructive criticism. I realize you have put a great deal of effort in it and that is great. I'm only trying to help.

            When you are dead you don't know that you are dead. Its only difficult for others. Its the same when you are stupid.

            Comment


            • Questions

              Originally posted by dielectric View Post
              Clarence thank you very much for all of the efforts you are going through to try an help people figure this stuff out. I had a couple of questions I was hoping you could answer for me.

              1. On your inverter kill-a-watt meter, when under a load of say your refrigerator or shop-vac what is the wattage or amperage reading? I would imagine it would be close to zero because of the reflected power correct?

              2. Your battery charger, is there a need to have such an expensive one vs something like a simple 20amp car battery charger?
              Hello dielectric,

              sorry to get to your reply so late Sir.

              with respect to the KWM when powering my refrig it shows the actual volts
              in the circuit, it shows the actual amperage the fridge uses- 1.57 amps, and it shows the actual wattage - somewhere around 189 watts.( just a small unit as I don't need much fridge space ).

              before powering it with my unit I had plugged a KWM into the mains circuit the fridge normally uses so I could know how close the KWM readings would match whether on mains power or my separated unit power. the readings were almost identical. loved that!

              with respect to the charger the xantrex 2 is a way better unit! it has a faster bulk charge system, and mid charge system and float system.
              it has a 3 bank capability which is desirable as I am going to step my unit up to 3 battery bank. this would enable the charger to work less to keep the bank at high charge since its easier to just keep three batteries topped instead of bulk charging one up and down. the charger is just a much more desirable unit to help maintain a unit that would power a complete household which I will get to. the charger itself at full blast uses 3 amps and then drops off decently to around 1.1+- in sustain mode 10-20% charge. you can judge by the amps your charger unit takes when it operates. my charger has an excellent led performance light system that is easy to watch at all times.

              its users choice.

              thanks for your patience Sir.

              Clarence

              Comment


              • No not upset

                Originally posted by Fjohnnyb View Post
                Clarence thank you for your reply. It is not that I or we do not understand you in fact I understood you perfectly. What I was questioning was BroMikey's drawing and as you have now said yourself, the primary coils are both wound the same. His drawing however indicates that one coil is wound CW and one CCW and states it both in the letters (CW & CCW) and the way he drew the windings. Since you approved of his drawing (you obviously missed it too - which is OK we are all human...) I simply tried to interpret the drawing based on your words Clarence and then the drawing did not make sense. Following your and BroMikey's last few posts my questions turn out to be well founded.

                You sounded a bit upset with my questions. Please don't be, I don't mean to judge you or insinuate that you don't know what you are talking about. I just wanted to understand why what you said and what the drawings show were not the same thing. In the end it will help everyone because they won't make the mistake shown on the drawing.

                BroMikey, I am very grateful for your efforts with the drawings, it does make things a lot easier to picture. Please don't see my questions as insults but rather as constructive criticism. I realize you have put a great deal of effort in it and that is great. I'm only trying to help.

                Hello Fjohnnyb

                no I was not upset in the least even if it seemed that way. as i have stated before I am just a very blunt person when it comes to getting a point across.

                you are correct that in Bro's earlier drawing that I at first did not catch the error that was made.

                please, never be offended by what I say as it is never intended to be such.

                ANY members help is always valued. after all that is our only joint purpose on site.

                your comments to me will ALWAYS be welcome SIR.

                thanks again,

                Clarence

                Comment


                • Hi Clarence,

                  After careful reading of this post that I have quoted let me post what I think I understand from your post. If the KWM at the inverter is showing the same when running your fridge off your system as it did when running off the mains then that tells me you are actually running the fridge off the battery and inverter. That is why you need to recharge your battery.

                  Now the interesting thing to me is that when the system is not powering another load apparently there is enough excess power coming from the ground to run the charger and recharge the battery. Is that correct?

                  Even if you do have to let your system rest to recharge the battery that is still an impressive accomplishment! I realize a solar system with batteries is almost the same except your system works 24 hours a day!

                  Please correct any misunderstandings I may have about how your system is operating.

                  Originally posted by clarence View Post
                  Hello dielectric,

                  sorry to get to your reply so late Sir.

                  with respect to the KWM when powering my refrig it shows the actual volts
                  in the circuit, it shows the actual amperage the fridge uses- 1.57 amps, and it shows the actual wattage - somewhere around 189 watts.( just a small unit as I don't need much fridge space ).

                  before powering it with my unit I had plugged a KWM into the mains circuit the fridge normally uses so I could know how close the KWM readings would match whether on mains power or my separated unit power. the readings were almost identical. loved that!

                  with respect to the charger the xantrex 2 is a way better unit! it has a faster bulk charge system, and mid charge system and float system.
                  it has a 3 bank capability which is desirable as I am going to step my unit up to 3 battery bank. this would enable the charger to work less to keep the bank at high charge since its easier to just keep three batteries topped instead of bulk charging one up and down. the charger is just a much more desirable unit to help maintain a unit that would power a complete household which I will get to. the charger itself at full blast uses 3 amps and then drops off decently to around 1.1+- in sustain mode 10-20% charge. you can judge by the amps your charger unit takes when it operates. my charger has an excellent led performance light system that is easy to watch at all times.

                  its users choice.

                  thanks for your patience Sir.

                  Clarence
                  Respectfully,
                  Carroll
                  Just because someone disagrees with you does NOT make them your enemy. We can disagree without attacking someone. This means YOU especially BroMikey.

                  Comment


                  • Another to consider

                    This fellow harvested "magnetic" energy from the environment
                    and found that the immediate area could only support so much Charge.
                    placement had to be not too far... not too close ...an "array" so to speak
                    was formed.


                    In Memory of Arthur Manelas - Revolution-Green
                    If you want to Change the world
                    BE that change !!

                    Comment


                    • Correct SIR

                      Originally posted by cheors View Post
                      Forget the CW / CCW notion.

                      Primaries are built with the same winding tool (Tortran manufacturer)

                      Primaries ares connected : Black toroid wire to black toroid wire to Line (inverter)
                      White wire to white wire to Neutral
                      So primaries are in phase

                      Secondaries are identically wound ( by us)
                      and connected in phase (top to top, bottom to bottom)
                      ALL THE TIME, the 2 transformers try to produce the same secondary currents
                      which cancel each other out.
                      We get a loop without huge current and then no big primary power demand.

                      Clarence, correct me if this is wrong.
                      Hello Cheors,

                      you are correct sir.

                      the actual happening is within the toroids primary and secondary
                      relationship which KILLS the lenz law (bemf) effect and only leaves the amperage component to have the relationship to each other when connected in loop form.

                      I like your explanation because it gets the job done in less words and has more useful effect on the members without having to in depth explaining
                      things.

                      thank you very much for your efforts Sir.

                      Clarence

                      Comment


                      • about inverter and stuff

                        Hi I am new at this tread .....reading and try to understand Clarence indications and schematics , few questions come in my mind:

                        1.The pure sine wave inverter ( and generaly high power inverters ) are very expensive stuff ..at least for me in country where I live....so my question is, there is a must pure sine wave? We cann,t make some easy and cheap inverters to feed the device for rezistive heaters and other stufff that not neeed pure sine wave ?

                        A schematic like this one should be ok? :How to Build a Simple 250 to 5000 Watts PWM DC/AC 220V Power Inverter
                        or this :http://www.instructables.com/id/250-...ower-Inverter/

                        2. I have 2 toroids ; in 220v to 12 v out ,removed from some old electrical appliances
                        I am thinking if the windings of these ,can be used ( as primary) and make the rest of thick windings like in schematic posted here ?

                        3.How much is The length of the rods buried in the earth?

                        4.Would not be possible to using a solid state bedini charger type with cap dump for battery instead a bought type charger?

                        The ideea is, to come with an settup that is cheap as posible in this experimental stage...

                        Comment


                        • Info correction

                          Originally posted by citfta View Post
                          Hi Clarence,

                          After careful reading of this post that I have quoted let me post what I think I understand from your post. If the KWM at the inverter is showing the same when running your fridge off your system as it did when running off the mains then that tells me you are actually running the fridge off the battery and inverter. That is why you need to recharge your battery.

                          Now the interesting thing to me is that when the system is not powering another load apparently there is enough excess power coming from the ground to run the charger and recharge the battery. Is that correct?

                          Even if you do have to let your system rest to recharge the battery that is still an impressive accomplishment! I realize a solar system with batteries is almost the same except your system works 24 hours a day!

                          Please correct any misunderstandings I may have about how your system is operating.



                          Respectfully,
                          Carroll
                          Hello citfta,

                          No the fridge is NOT being powered by the battery and Inverter! It is merely being ASSISTED by the inverter and battery!

                          the battery and Inverter only POWER the toroids and the Neutral input to Ground and at the same time power only the phase of the Captor output - the neutral of the Captor out put is receiving its power from the earth Ground Return NOT from the battery or inverter. if not for the power from the earth Ground Return NOTHING would be powered whether fridge or whatever! disconnect the earth neutral and nothing will happen.

                          thats why WAY BACK when I only had just two ground rods NOTHING HAPPENED. as I purposely only added a few rods at a time I began to receive voltage across the Captor output circuit. I purposely kept only adding a few rods at a time to see what improvement would show itself on the system output. It wasn't until I reached 60 rods that the earth was giving enough potential to sustain a voltage rms that would match the output
                          PHASE rms of the inverter and make a useful Captor out circuit.

                          So - no - the inverter and battery in NOT powering the Captor output , ONLY assisting.

                          thanks for listening,

                          Clarence

                          Comment


                          • Helpful information

                            Originally posted by sinergicus View Post
                            Hi I am new at this tread .....reading and try to understand Clarence indications and schematics , few questions come in my mind:

                            1.The pure sine wave inverter ( and generaly high power inverters ) are very expensive stuff ..at least for me in country where I live....so my question is, there is a must pure sine wave? We cann,t make some easy and cheap inverters to feed the device for rezistive heaters and other stufff that not neeed pure sine wave ?

                            A schematic like this one should be ok? :How to Build a Simple 250 to 5000 Watts PWM DC/AC 220V Power Inverter
                            or this :http://www.instructables.com/id/250-...ower-Inverter/

                            2. I have 2 toroids ; in 220v to 12 v out ,removed from some old electrical appliances
                            I am thinking if the windings of these ,can be used ( as primary) and make the rest of thick windings like in schematic posted here ?

                            3.How much is The length of the rods buried in the earth?

                            4.Would not be possible to using a solid state bedini charger type with cap dump for battery instead a bought type charger?

                            The ideea is, to come with an settup that is cheap as posible in this experimental stage...
                            hello sinergicus,

                            first and foremost my unit is NOT an experiment! It is an actual WORKING UNIT!

                            secondly it DOES require a pure sine wave inverter - aims 3000 watt is what you see in my unit.

                            the toroids should be for 50HZ performance. what is their watt rating?
                            what is their outside diameter measure? are they a grain oriented mix core?

                            The rods In use are a copper bonded coating outside galvanized steel inside
                            5/8 inch diameter - 8 foot length.

                            The charger you suggest MIGHT be good or not? naturally I prefer mine.
                            you will definitely find out!

                            all the best ,

                            Clarence

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by BroMikey View Post
                              In this discussion we will take a look at the winding directions of
                              a toroidal transformer. In the diagram CCW means
                              (COUNTER CLOCKWISE) and CW = (CLOCKWISE).

                              At no time can a CW wound winding ever become a CCW winding
                              without removing the wire and rewinding in the opposite direction.

                              In these 4 stations we are looking at the Primary winding. During our
                              review we may discovery that Tortran is sending Clarence identically
                              wound Toroid's and primaries in one direction only.

                              If this is true then we may conclude that for the primaries connected to the inverter in parallel opposing windings are not good for the project. Up until now all we have to go on concerning the primaries is that TORTRAN winds them.

                              In the event we find that both Tortran winds are either CCW or they are both CW, we can conclude a number of things. In other words if we
                              find that the Tortran special order transformers are NOT a right and left set
                              then we can go forward for the purpose of dissecting this project.

                              If so this would make my new diagram incorrect.

                              I'm just skimming along here so if this has already become clear just ignore this explanation. Picture the toroids you have drawn above laying flat on a table. Imagine them as being large coins with a heads and a tails. Flip one with the CW winding over so heads up becomes tails up. What do you have? Do you see it ? If it is hard to picture in your mind just find a donut shape thing of any sort and put a couple windings of wire, string or whatever around it then flip heads and tails a few times (flipping with a left to right motion).
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by ewizard; 04-21-2015, 03:25 PM.
                              There is no important work, there are only a series of moments to demonstrate your mastery and impeccability. Quote from Almine

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by clarence View Post
                                The rods In use are a copper bonded coating outside galvanized steel inside
                                5/8 inch diameter - 8 foot length.
                                I'm not trying to make you repeat yourself here but... you have 60 (sixty) 8 foot long rods pounded all the way into the ground, hooked up in series and THIS is what formulates your grounding grid?

                                Would you suspect that someone in a geomagnetic "hotzone" would need far less rods than that?

                                Thanks!

                                Comment

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