Basic Free Energy Device

[altrez]

Thanks for posting that Dave. I am still confused. So there is not any direction on this thread yet? Nothing is based off the Tesla switch? If not why would you need 3 batterys and a motor?

Some clarification would be great as I have spent about $70 today

-Altrez

[Allcanadian]

@Farmhand
Very nice video, if fact I just saw the same effect on the bench 10 minutes ago with a supposedly dead SLA 12v-5AH battery and a brushed DC motor in the 3BG setup. the dead battery was not so dead after all, it just needed a little kick. I have 3 identical batteries but one seems pooched, maybe I can bring it back from the dead.

Now take a "dead" battery in position 3 with a DC motor in series as in the 3BG setup. The current flows forward towards the dead battery and the brush noise desulfates the battery a bit. The number three battery rapidly jumps to 14v as in the video you posted and adds in series to the induced voltage of the motor now a generator giving us a voltage higher than the charged batteries 1 and 2. The current appears to reverse momentarily until the induced voltage of the motor, a generator, drops and the current reverses again. Maybe I can catch the mysterious reversal on video or better yet induce a reversal. Seems pretty straight forward, we will see... .

It is interesting to note a universal motor works on both AC and DC so an AC series oscillation between batteries 3 ans 1,2 may produce a little chaos in the system. I remember using a universal motor from a shop vac but all the batteries used in the Tesla switch setup were fairly new. Hmm, is there a chance an AC series oscillation between two DC sources could produce parametric effects not expected?.

AC

[Turion]

Not 3bgs

AC,
We are not taking about the 3BGS or Tesla switch. Someone asked me questions about the 3BGS, so I answered. If we were talking about either of those I would have posted on those threads. Honestly, Matt and I have not decided WHAT, if anything to post about on this thread. I started this out by talking about the simple Free Energy device that John Bedini and Tom Beardon introduced us to in the "Free Energy Generation" book.

Motor
Generator
Switching
Flywheel

My idea was to take what we know is the best of each of these and combine them. Like running the best motor possible on the 3BGS setup as a way to further extend the run time of the motor and allow it to be used as a generator while it is running as a motor. Running a pulse motor if possible rather than a stock motor (like I am using now) or a Universal motor with wound rotor and wound stator that will freewheel in the off time. But does freewheeling compare to a pulsed motor with a 50/50 duty cycle where half the time it is used as a generator? Questions to be researched. Connect this to the best generator we can build, based on what we have learned. This is the direction I have been heading, and we have promising results. That is why I went to the expense of building a large machine. But in that process I came up with a half dozen design changes that will IMPROVE performance of the next prototype. They are basically things I Jerry rigged on this one that should be part and parcel of the construction process of the next one.

And I STILL have research questions that I need answers to. What size magnet to use on the generator, what is the best core material for the coils. Lots of things like that. The answers to every one of those questions will improve the performance of the unit as a whole. Make no mistake, I will research these things myself if I have to, but I thought it might be nice to have a working unit that we ALL work to improve. Just an idea.

Matt has a little working unit that is probably COP>2. It did NOT have a flywheel. It wasn't a replication of John B's basic device, but it sure got my attention. It was made of wood and wire and magnets, but it put out more than it took to run. I replicated, but took mine apart to use the rotors in my coil tester. Since I KNEW it worked, (on my bench in front of me, using MY instruments to measure the input and output) and not just with volt meters from the Pick 'N' Save, but with two different oscilloscopes. I started working on a 12 coil version and have spent well over a year on that. It DOES have a flywheel. But it is too big and too expensive for everyone here to build. We wanted to go with something simple that everyone can afford and are still truing to figure out exactly what that will be.

I agree about the Arduino. I have a couple of them that I use, and by coincidence, I just picked up another one at Radio Shack yesterday. Haven't even opened the box yet as I spent the whole day today working on my house and soldering on the motor controller unit for my big machine.

Our goal is to present something that works, and then work together to make it work way better. I am experimenting with all kinds of things right now, and in two weeks when I move up to the new place, I will be back at this full time, not dashing off a message when I come in to use the bathroom.

Dave

[altrez]

I have seen the same "empty voltage" first hand. Thanks for sharing Farmhand.

-Altrez

[Farmhand]

A battery is not actually fully "dead" until the voltage across the terminals
reads zero volts both unloaded and loaded, until then the battery still
contains significant stored potential energy. And there is no accurate way to
determine how much energy remains in a so called "dead" battery.

Unless it can be shown or demonstrated how somehow the claimed extra
energy is entering the system from somewhere then why would anyone have
reason to think any output is not simply accessing previously "locked in"
energy by way of the Tesla switch type setup which is the 3BGS.

Those of us that have watched closely batteries under charge and discharge
know of things like a battery voltage bounce back under load and batteries
being sulfated but still containing significant energy which shows as a low
battery voltage initially and then on loading an even lower voltage for some
time before suddenly the battery resistance drops suddenly and the terminal
voltage rises as does the amount of power output.

The effect is demonstrated nicely in the following video from Sucahyo
where he simply loads a sulfated battery with a light bulb and the effect is
seen, I have also seen the very same effect but only with one battery so far
it is not a common effect and not all batteries show it. But some do.

As the battery is loaded the initial small current reduces internal resistance in
the battery until a point where the battery suddenly becomes active and
gives out it's previously locked in "stored potential energy". Simple and real.
And it explains the 3BGS nicely.

Sucahyo calls it phantom empty, I call it a sulfated battery which still
contains significant energy.

Phantom empty effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdY-jogyeEQ

..

So the question arises. Just how would one determine the stored potential
energy in the battery in Sucahyo's video before it is loaded to the point it
finally outputs enough power to measure as useful ? Unless folks can do that
they have no way of knowing just how much potential energy is stored in the
battery to begin with and so they have no business making claims of extra
energy until they can accurately determine how much stored potential
energy is in any given so called "dead battery".

..

[altrez]

1 &2 are series, 3 is paralleled,
Battery 3 always charges, because 1&2 equal ~26vdc,
#2 drains ... I think batteries drain from the bottom end,
But now that Dave mentioned it , I need to try keeping a fully charged battery with position #2
artv

Thank you for the post. I am going to use the Tesla Switch diagram as a reference guide. It looks like it also needs blocking diodes.





-Altrez

[shylo]

1 &2 are series, 3 is paralleled,
Battery 3 always charges, because 1&2 equal ~26vdc,
#2 drains ... I think batteries drain from the bottom end,
But now that Dave mentioned it , I need to try keeping a fully charged battery with position #2
artv

[altrez]

Can someone please post a complete diagram of how this needs to be hooked up? I know we have one dead battery in the number 3 position how are 1 and 2 hooked up in relation to the motor and the dead battery?

Thanks for the help

-Altrez

[shylo]

see

That's it ..I use all bad batteries ,if you can get work from dead batteries, give it.
If 3 dead batteries can preform work , as long as 1 good is paralleled ,I'll try it.
artv

[Allcanadian]

@All
You know it's kind funny that it took four pages of posts to find out we are speaking of a simple 3BGS or Tesla switch. I had built both commutator and basic mosfet switched devices probably a decade ago. Now I know what some may be thinking and no that's not why I am posting. I was always 100% for a group effort and I have been having second thoughts after reading my last post. The fact that Erfinder has chimed in has made me realize I need to spend more time hands on and sharing openly. I'm really not into the youtube thing or show and tell but I do like the fact there are some experienced hands on board so I figured let's see where we can take this.

My thoughts on this subject are very different that most because my thoughts are dominated by logic. What is it we want?, how do we find it, how do we know we have found it, how do we make it work better?.

Now think about what everyone is doing, setup the circuit, switch the source batteries, take some measurements, make some adjustments then take some more basic measurements. At best we can figure on taking meaningful measurements every few hours which is why most have spent months if not years trying to understand what is happening and why.

So I propose I/we build a simple micro-controller circuit, Arduino, as time allows to switch the circuit automatically and take meaningful measurements a couple hundred times a second to track the flow of energy. Again think about what everyone is doing and how they know if they are moving in the right direction?. It seems obvious to me that we can apply a simple perturb and measure algorithm to seek the optimal timing, PWM, relating to the input/output power measurements. The same algorithm is also applied to the battery switching times. In which case we are not dealing with basic hourly measurements and taking a wild guess at what is happening we are speaking of logic controls which remember the last set of measures both instantaneous as well as the mean and always make incremental adjustments towards optimal conditions. The cost should be around $60 and the programming is not an issue. It should reduce weeks/months worth of run time measurements down to a matter of hours...theoretically, lol. I have everything that could be needed to build the system on hand.


So if you will have me in the group I will need a PM from Matt or Turion with a basic circuit diagram/pictures and possibly a skype address. If Erfinder would like to get involved that would be awesome.

Regards
AC

[wrtner]

You will need a way to put a load on the motor.

Would not a simple prony brake be easier?
.

[altrez]

You will need a way to put a load on the motor. One way is to shaft connect it to another motor which you can then use as a generator. You can use a bridge rectifier to rectify the output and run 12 volt loads. Then you would need little 12 volt loads, like car tail light bulbs, to attach to both battery 3 and to the motor-as-generator to balance the two out. These are the primary things you need for all experimenting on the 3BGS setup.

We hope to go far beyond that here shortly, but all those things would still be useful. Basic volt meters so you can measure your voltage and any test equipment you can get your hands on. An oscilloscope is needed if you are going to get serious. I am going for my third two channel scope just so I can pull in data from different locations. Meters give too many flaky readings with this stuff.

Dave

I have all types of scopes I have been a builder for many years Thanks for the help.

-Altrez

[Turion]

Additions

You will need a way to put a load on the motor. One way is to shaft connect it to another motor which you can then use as a generator. You can use a bridge rectifier to rectify the output and run 12 volt loads. Then you would need little 12 volt loads, like car tail light bulbs, to attach to both battery 3 and to the motor-as-generator to balance the two out. These are the primary things you need for all experimenting on the 3BGS setup.

We hope to go far beyond that here shortly, but all those things would still be useful. Basic volt meters so you can measure your voltage and any test equipment you can get your hands on. An oscilloscope is needed if you are going to get serious. I am going for my third two channel scope just so I can pull in data from different locations. Meters give too many flaky readings with this stuff.

Dave

[altrez]

altrez,

If you are going to get one off ebay, run a search for the MY1016.That is the small razor scooter motors. Several manufacturers make them. They are cheaper. I just ordered one yesterday for $25 with free shipping. As for batteries, just good batteries that will hold a charge, and hopefully three that are the same Amp hour.
Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the tip I just got one off eBay. So I have three 12 volt 5ah batteries and the motor coming. Is there anything else you think I need to get started?

Thanks!

-Altrez

[Turion]

altrez,

If you are going to get one off ebay, run a search for the MY1016.That is the small razor scooter motors. Several manufacturers make them. They are cheaper. I just ordered one yesterday for $25 with free shipping. As for batteries, just good batteries that will hold a charge, and hopefully three that are the same Amp hour.
Dave