William F. Skinner - 1939 Gravity Power

[Turion]

Elliptical Orbit.

GREAT build!!!

Here is a visual representation of what Aaron has been talking about. This is NOT my idea, but his. And it is a SIMPLE way to obtain an elliptical orbit. Not trying to muddy the waters, just trying to help out.

Dave

[Aaron]

William Skinner Gravity Power

Originally Posted by armandino [translation IT >EN]Thanks, Your comment helps me to continue the job and making the machine better.
The mass on top rotates independently from the mass below, and as you see in the video this effect is obtained through the rotation of a vertical axis (Archimedes' lever) within a hole in the plate.

The lever is used to get a big gain of coupling and allowing an independent rotation of the plate, caused by perfectly circular rotation.

This necessity makes it difficult for me to think about a mechanism with gears that would transform the circular rotation into an elliptical one.

I know elliptical gears but I can only see them work well in a vertical plane. I am asking you: when the masses reach their maximum speed, can the inertial energy cancel the effect of an elliptical rotation ?
The machine rotates fast and it is already difficult to contain the stress that arises due to centrifugal forces. According to my thinking elliptical rotation can be used at lower speed and only a gear with singular attachment [presa solidale ??] can bring about this result, not an independent circular rotation.

Anyway, in order to obtain an imbalance and consequently a slight elliptical rotation I have dis-aligned the central axis of the lever ( the fulcrum point ) from the center axis of the rotor on the pavement and I think that this worked, and resulted in a light advantageous elliptical movement, in so far that in the resting position the weights always position themselves on the left side.
I believe in a gain through elliptical movement and that is why I have completed a design for a new setup which will make use of that. I will be back.[/translation]

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If top weight moves independently of the lower weight, that is good since that is what is necessary to have the upper weight indirectly move the lower weight.

When upper weight moves, it moves the lower shaft and causes the lower weight to fall to the inside of the incline of the lower shaft.

That is how the lower weight is constantly chasing the upper weight.

That is also how gravity causes the lower weight move position even if it is circular.

With elliptical movement, the lower weight will fall to the inside of the incline of the shaft, which changes it's center of gravity in relation to its position in the rotational orbit - this happens in circular orbit as well. This is a change in the horizontal plane.

HOWEVER, with an elliptical orbit, the lower weight's center of gravity changes in relation to the angle that the shaft holds it in throughout the elliptical orbit, which means it its center of gravity actually changes height periodically up and down, which is impossible with a circular orbit. This is a change in the vertical plane, which only happens with an elliptical orbit.

With an elliptical orbit, the center of gravity changes on the horizontal plane that it is rotating around, but also vertically up and down depending on where in the elliptical orbit it is on. In the wider part of the ellipse, it is the highest and at the ends of the narrow parts of the ellipse it is the lowest.

The plate that you are rotating with the bottom of the lever does not need modification, only the very top of the lever, which needs to be made to rotate elliptically. There are multiple mechanisms to accomplish this. The original Skinner method is obvious in the animated gif that Bro Mikey posted. You can see the top of the lever is rotating on a little spinning arm on the end of a larger oscillating arm - together, it causes an elliptical motion of the lever and not a circular one.

This goes right to the place in my video that explains what you see in the animated gif:

https://youtu.be/JolNozy8UEY?t=34m56s

[marxist]

translation attempt

Hi,
here my attemtp of a translations of armandinos posting #684 into English

[translation IT >EN]Thanks, Your comment helps me to continue the job and making the machine better.
The mass on top rotates independently from the mass below, and as you see in the video this effect is obtained through the rotation of a vertical axis (Archimedes' lever) within a hole in the plate.

The lever is used to get a big gain of coupling and allowing an independent rotation of the plate, caused by perfectly circular rotation.

This necessity makes it difficult for me to think about a mechanism with gears that would transform the circular rotation into an elliptical one.

I know elliptical gears but I can only see them work well in a vertical plane. I am asking you: when the masses reach their maximum speed, can the inertial energy cancel the effect of an elliptical rotation ?
The machine rotates fast and it is already difficult to contain the stress that arises due to centrifugal forces. According to my thinking elliptical rotation can be used at lower speed and only a gear with singular attachment [presa solidale ??] can bring about this result, not an independent circular rotation.

Anyway, in order to obtain an imbalance and consequently a slight elliptical rotation I have dis-aligned the central axis of the lever ( the fulcrum point ) from the center axis of the rotor on the pavement and I think that this worked, and resulted in a light advantageous elliptical movement, in so far that in the resting position the weights always position themselves on the left side.
I believe in a gain through elliptical movement and that is why I have completed a design for a new setup which will make use of that. I will be back.[/translation]

[armandino]

Ciao e Buon Natale

Avete lavorato sodo per rendere questo dispositivo.
Sei stato in grado di dimostrare un guadagno di coppia?

Grazie per aver condiviso

Luc

[armandino]

That's a great build - the best large scale build I've seen.

Does the upper and lower weight move independently of each other?

Can you convert the upper circular rotation to an elliptical rotation? The lower weight's center of gravity has to change. It's only possible with an elliptical motion because at the end of the narrow path, the lower weight is at a low and as it goes to the wide center part of the ellipse, it is high, then it falls to the narrow end. After it falls to the narrow end, right before it moves in the opposite direction, that is where the input lever at the top needs to give its input - and it needs to do that on both ends of the ellipse.

[BroMikey]

Hello everyone. I read for a long time, your comments on the car of W. Skinner and of course long viewed the footage of 1939 and I decided to throw myself even I experimentation in search of the mythical strength gain that you would get from a machine that exploits forces of gravity. after a year of painful work and numerous dismantle and reassemble I put together this machinery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

WOW WOW WOW nice nice big build. Thanks for sharing so I can
learn the gravity experiments too. Ask Aaron he is the best.

[gotoluc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZishttp://www.energeticforum.com/images.../notworthy.gif

Ciao e Buon Natale

Avete lavorato sodo per rendere questo dispositivo.
Sei stato in grado di dimostrare un guadagno di coppia?

Grazie per aver condiviso

Luc

[Aaron]

big build

Hello everyone. I read for a long time, your comments on the car of W. Skinner and of course long viewed the footage of 1939 and I decided to throw myself even I experimentation in search of the mythical strength gain that you would get from a machine that exploits forces of gravity. after a year of painful work and numerous dismantle and reassemble I put together this machinery https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

That's a great build - the best large scale build I've seen.

Does the upper and lower weight move independently of each other?

Can you convert the upper circular rotation to an elliptical rotation? The lower weight's center of gravity has to change. It's only possible with an elliptical motion because at the end of the narrow path, the lower weight is at a low and as it goes to the wide center part of the ellipse, it is high, then it falls to the narrow end. After it falls to the narrow end, right before it moves in the opposite direction, that is where the input lever at the top needs to give its input - and it needs to do that on both ends of the ellipse.

[armandino]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZis who humbly submit to the judgment of the competent persons participating in this forum, so that I have enlightened in finding the most appropriate solutions, hoping to gain an suggestions to improve the performance of the mechanism. do me any questions, I will answer with pleasure.

[armandino]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib3ZATuJZishttp://www.energeticforum.com/images.../notworthy.gif

[Aaron]

Any one can see that there are quick burst of high energy here. It is making high temperature plasma that makes small explosions (the popping sound), vaporizing small quantities of metal on the nail and making very bright light (plasma).

You've got to be kidding. That is not even remotely connected to what the plasma circuit is that accelerates the cap discharge with negative resistance. That is a very SLOW event you are showing and everyone has done that on the bench - that is NOT a high speed current impulse. You don't know the difference and apparently are not interested in understanding anything different than what you already believe.

That is an unsuccessful attempt so I'll rephrase the question - has anyone successfully built an elliptical mechanism and tested the difference between the output of that and a circular orbit?

[MagnaMoRo]

No, it's not true. Take a cap and short it out with a screwdriver and show us all that it makes the plasma. It does not make it discharge quickly in this manner and I already explained why the cap discharges quicker with the negative resistance effect.

You're dismissing what I said without ever having done the experiment.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else here has also done experiments with the elliptical movement.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVbrIwN4Vw[/VIDEO]

Any one can see that there are quick burst of high energy here. It is making high temperature plasma that makes small explosions (the popping sound), vaporizing small quantities of metal on the nail and making very bright light (plasma).


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4wvNRO4_MU[/VIDEO]

Attempts at elliptical mechanisms prove to be complex undertakings.

MagnaMoRo

[Aaron]

elliptical?

First and foremost I have not accused YOU of anything. I merely meant that your chart itself, in looking at it, only shows that one cap has discharged more quickly, but does not explain why or what is happening or the effects of doing so. Anyone can discharge a cap slowly (into some kind of circuit), or quickly (with a screw-driver), and achieve similar graph results. True? So, don't misconstrue it as an attack on you.

No, it's not true. Take a cap and short it out with a screwdriver and show us all that it makes the plasma. It does not make it discharge quickly in this manner and I already explained why the cap discharges quicker with the negative resistance effect.

You're dismissing what I said without ever having done the experiment.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else here has also done experiments with the elliptical movement.

[h2ocommuter]

I applaud all the input to this discussion, lively, cogenic and fun to read. I however must incorporate my efforts into what I know and understand as mechanically advantageous in my replications. However the conversation goes in each of our labs it is curious to me how many theories come into play. "Truely Amazing".

So to do... I see the ability of overcoming the disparaging failure of ou for the skinner device is managing the Levers, fulcrums, and slope of angle for the gravity to be a usable element in the machine. However compelling the reasoning for elliptical and linear movement being laid out my primary focus is only on the lower 2/3 of the machine.

I am well aware of the friction elements: Bearings, alignment to vertical, and drive belts or gearboxes. My replications show me how important these factors really are.
The vertical axis Or degree of slope is paramount!

I won't go into bearing alignment because IF you don't get this component you are LOST to any mechanical build anyways.

I have fixed my perspective on the gravity component, I would contend this: Any amount of weight is doable given the Slope is correct and all load bearing are adequate.

I do not think about the explanation of why OU or perpetual motion does not work because I see the universe by itself operating together as individual self cohesive units that contain millions of components Or only a couple that too are cogenetic and cohesive, being simple or complicated work just fine. Nature itself is like this. so I look at this machine as a simple adaptation of a natural occurrence.

A slope is the most natural element of our everyday life as anything..... liquid will flow down "any" slope depending on the viscosity in relation which is related to time. I see bearings and fulcrums as this viscosity element.

I just ordered the correct bearings and fulcrum shafts for one unit. If I like what I ordered and my figures are correct I will make other inroads.

Good luck.
Have a great day.

[Aaron]

the goal is "overunity" - ellipse + impulse

Depending upon what you are trying to do, of course, these manifestations could be considered undesirable, destructive or wasteful.

That's right - depending on what we want to do.

When we're talking about a non-equilibrium energy machine that outputs mechanical work, the goal is to increase the power of our available resources, which is done with impulses. We will have a speed and torque increase and if it is an open system open to free external source potential (gravity), then we not only get a power increase from the input lever at the right time and the lower weight's mechanism to self propel itself in the other direction, but we get a real energy gain or increase in work compared to our input.

A circular mechanism and no impulses brings the machine into equilibrium and in that case, we might as well direct drive every machine direct from wall power because that is where there is no advantage.