My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Hitby13kw]

@ Prochiro



@UFO

As always your input is spot-on, your knowledge will be applied when I have an Imperial in hand.

As it would be also understood, that IF pulsing Stator with DC...You will NOT need the same amount of resistance AC requires...but much less.
You could try this "both ways" with same machine by making a sort of "secondary" on stators...one for DC (short resistance above 1.0 Ohms)...and another one to AC based on the way original was wound...
Then check outputs of that secondary stator while machine is running using the "Primary"...see what you get on both different sources...that would be interesting.
Regards
Ufopolitics

Great idea to add to the 2B done pile ;-) As to my Universal Asymmetric Machines, progress has been made with my planned set of tests, however there is more testing before conclusions can be drawn, you will help me pop the cork when there is irrefutable information to present.

Hitby13kw

Blessing to all

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Emaj9

Great work UFO!!
quick question tho....the surplus DC motors that I have found to experiment with, have a shaft that runs completely through them and can drive/be driven from either end...is it still necessary to adjust the timing on the "generator" motor if I drive it from the other end?

Hello Emaj9, thanks

As long as you do not change the rotation, your timing set up will not get disturbed.
Therefore, if you swap the Generator Motor from one end to the other of the Prime Mover, you will be changing its rotation sense.

Regards

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great!

Hey UFO and everyone

UFO, I re-connected the comm elements, then used my smallest cutting tool for my dremmel, about 1mm wide. I cut out/ widened the gaps. Still only 1500 rpm. We'll see what happens when I get the switch hooked up, and the coils in parallel. Definitely, less sparking now, and less current draw.


Just played with timing and had it up to 1750 RPM, it drew 9-10 amps, 36.6 v

Hello Machine,

That's is very good!

Yeah, try it in Parallel, that's where the heavy torque and higher speed is my friend.
You have videos where you were running it parallel and have amperage recorded right?...so let's see the difference now...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Excellent!

@ Prochiro



@UFO

As always your input is spot-on, your knowledge will be applied when I have an Imperial in hand.





Great idea to add to the 2B done pile ;-) As to my Universal Asymmetric Machines, progress has been made with my planned set of tests, however there is more testing before conclusions can be drawn, you will help me pop the cork when there is irrefutable information to present.

Hitby13kw

Blessing to all

Hello there Ambassador!

Great work getting someone else into this!, excellent!


Waiting to hear from you to pop that cork!!...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Some Pentagon Y RS perf data

Hi Ufo, all

Per your request,

Now measure outputs...speed and V/A draw after you get it running smoother...will love to see results...
Ufopolitics

got the motor balanced pretty good, I don't plan to unwind this thing again, so I epoxied the windings.

I use bearings too, yanking the bushings, hoping to get some runtime if I see something interesting.
Battery rest voltage was about 12.8

Here are the tests I ran:

1. RS unmodified symmetrical motor, 15500 rpm no load
2. RS asym double rotor std. RS replication winding w/32ga, 18500 rpm, 8.9v gen out
3. RS asym single rotor Pent-Y winding 32ga 24000+ rpm, 3.7v gen out

youtube video made: Pentagon Y Wiring Replication test data with comparisons

My observations:
Pent-Y winding looks good for a prime mover, 5-pole multiple. This ran about as fast as my convention RS asym winding motor, which used 30ga wire. That measured out at about 24000rpm once before I burnt it up. gen out voltage looks kind of low. Sounded like it could do better on the gen out voltage. I guess this windings timing could be investigated.

Not geared for amp readings yet.

EDIT: AMP READINGS

Double rotor RS 5-pole wiring replication, ~3.5 ohm coils: .7A
Pentagon Y winding single rotor 2 ohm coils: 1.0A
RS original motor 0.3A



Any comments welcome.

TIA

[Ufopolitics]

Amp reading...

I unhooked every other comm element, on the positive side only. p1-p15 in series at 36v rpm was 1500, it was 2200 rpm previous. I need to recharge batteries and try again. I'm gonna take it apart and clean between elements, I measured like 87 kohm, between some elements, that should be open. Same problem I noticed with the scratch motors. gonna have to figure out someway, to keep carbon residue, from getting beteen comm elements.

Hello there Machine,

One question, did you measure the Amps when you took off every other element?

Did you test it also in Parallel?

It will be great to have those readings on Amperage...see what is the difference there.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Great video

Hi Ufo, all

Per your request,



got the motor balanced pretty good, I don't plan to unwind this thing again, so I epoxied the windings.

I use bearings too, yanking the bushings, hoping to get some runtime if I see something interesting.
Battery rest voltage was about 12.8

Here are the tests I ran:

1. RS unmodified symmetrical motor, 15500 rpm no load
2. RS asym double rotor std. RS replication winding w/32ga, 18500 rpm, 8.9v gen out
3. RS asym single rotor Pent-Y winding 32ga 24000+ rpm, 3.7v gen out

youtube video made: Pentagon Y Wiring Replication test data with comparisons

My observations:
Pent-Y winding looks good for a prime mover, 5-pole multiple. This ran about as fast as my convention RS asym winding motor, which used 30ga wire. That measured out at about 24000rpm once before I burnt it up. gen out voltage looks kind of low. Sounded like it could do better on the gen out voltage. I guess this windings timing could be investigated.

Not geared for amp readings yet. Is it a bad idea to run these motors on power supplies due to radiant energy feedback?

Any comments welcome.

TIA

Hello Sampojo,

Great video!, thanks!

And yes, there are many here who have attached their motors to Power Sources...nothing happened...however I would use flywheel diodes first to protect from spikes...

Now, the Y Pentagon, I still hear it has a heavy friction on it.
The sound is much stronger* than the P5 Configuration...and they are same embodiments...
*I hear the sound more "bassy"...like a grinding noise, transmitted and amplified through its body.


Great work!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hey UFO,

I can't find where I took note of the current, when I unhooked every other element, but I'm sure it was around 8-9 amps.
UFO, at 12 v, I was getting over 400 v spikes across drain-source. So I never bothered at higher volts, I mean I did before but always blew fets. I had to add resistance in series, which slowed motor, and i felt was defeating the purpose.
Once I get the mercury switch, that will be the first time I will have had this motor pulsed, input in parallel, and no resistance (external) in series, at greater then 12v.

I managed to get mecc alte set up on bench, milled some blocks to get the motor height correct. Alignment looks real good. So now I have to decide how and where my outlet boxes will go. I may just move the stand to the basement next to the panel, after it gets running good.

On the back of the Alte there are two black and two white wire. So, each black is 120v 25 amps, with white as common? Those wires are not very big.

What was the RPM needed to self excite, UFO, do you remember? Or did you have to jump it on the initial run?

machine

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Brother

Hey UFO,

I can't find where I took note of the current, when I unhooked every other element, but I'm sure it was around 8-9 amps.

Hey Machine that's ok, it will do...just wanted to know how much amps decrease relation...

UFO, at 12 v, I was getting over 400 v spikes across drain-source. So I never bothered at higher volts, I mean I did before but always blew fets. I had to add resistance in series, which slowed motor, and i felt was defeating the purpose.

Geez Man!...400 V Spikes at 12V?!...no wonder FET's blow like Fire Crackers...
SHE is really Hot there!

Once I get the mercury switch, that will be the first time I will have had this motor pulsed, input in parallel, and no resistance (external) in series, at greater then 12v.

When pulsing Mercury...You will have to adjust your pulses very different than pulsing FET's...or Solid Contacts Solenoids.

You will have to allow longer Times Off and very short Times On...like 30% or lower first...till you find the right timing-percentage.

Mercury is very dense/viscous...so if you pulse too fast/too long T on's it will not have time to collapse back down...so it will close switch like blowing fet's...I mean...you have to play a lot with it to get the touch to drive it right.

I managed to get mecc alte set up on bench, milled some blocks to get the motor height correct. Alignment looks real good. So now I have to decide how and where my outlet boxes will go. I may just move the stand to the basement next to the panel, after it gets running good.

On the back of the Alte there are two black and two white wire. So, each black is 120v 25 amps, with white as common? Those wires are not very big.

What was the RPM needed to self excite, UFO, do you remember? Or did you have to jump it on the initial run?

machine

Be careful once you charge Cap!...make sure to use isolated pliers to disconnect your jumper cables, or just tape -cut wire ends and roll it back into a strap of electric tape....this Caps are good to retain HV for very long times after disconnections are made...it WILL SHOCK You.

Edit 1: The Manual is here...go to page 21 to see schematics..

http://www.northerntool.com/images/d...ls/1659200.pdf

Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Some Bosch replication plans, question or 2

Hi Ufo, thanks for your reply on my Pent Y effort, here are some amp readings in case you are looking for something.

AMP READINGS post 4221

Double rotor RS 5-pole wiring replication, ~3.5 ohm coils: .7A
Pentagon Y winding single rotor 2 ohm coils: 1.0A
RS original motor 0.3A

Was the generator voltage what you expected there, seemed lower than my other single rotor RS replication, normal 5-pole winding, but it was 30ga, 2 ohms/coil. One thing you could say is that the Pentagon Y winding had about the same top-end RPM, even though the standard 5-pole winding used 30ga, which means it drew more current to get the same performance.

I am using some old GM window motor, got a big investment going, 4 motors, $30. It has a 1-3/4" D rotor. Changing to an aluminum tube for the body. Got the end plates figured out, using some large washers. One big job is to grind the magnets down to size to fit four in the body, only 2 in the original, about 1/4" too big

Q1: Is it OK if there is no gap between magnets? I plan to anchor them (plus glue) from the front of the magnet.

Here is a pic of basic components at my photobucket:

The original motor used 22ga. It has 10 poles. Easy shaft replacement, bearings ready to go. Ordering some brushes so I plan to build my own brush plate and assembly. You might notice the square brass tubing. I got it at my local hobby shop, (Hat tip to Ufo. ). But in my thread research I loved your roller brush idea. So I had some bearings left from the RS reps that fit 1/4" copper pipe perfect(Blue Arrow). Looks pretty easy to build a housing riding on a spring in the tube the next size up. Seems to carry about a 0.1 ohm resistance. No prob, right? I want to build motors that run with minimal component wear, high reliability.

Q2: I have the idea of building a generator out of these cores, AT LEAST a double rotor. Can the Bosch windings be sub-divided into sub-coils to be used as a generator? Well your Bosch had 4 poles per coil and could be subdivided into three pretty nicely, but each coil on a 10-Pole would sub-tend 2 poles. Would subdividing it into 2, winding just a single pole per sub-coil, help in generator mode?



Uh,oh. Just noticed how you stagger motor cores in the diagram by one pole. That would not available in a 10-pole motor.

Q3: So then, will a 4-brush pair design add power to say a Pentagon y wiring pattern in a 10-pole rotor?

Q3: I would use the standard 5-pole RS wiring pattern on the generator sub-tending more poles. That should be amenable to sub-coil design of a generator coil, no?


Thanks, Joe

[Midaztouch]

UFO & All

I saw that everyone switches the poles manually to have the motor/generator to run in parallel or series. Is it possible to have a relay or something between the solenoid and generator/motor to do the switching? I think a relay would be practical for EV usage.

I'm I correct by saying that series give us maximum charging abilities and parallel gives us maximum power and rpm?


Keep it lean and green
Richie

[prochiro]

@ Joe
I remember something about working with magnets and that is ,they can explode with too much force or heat. I would caution you to check out correct method of grinding them and save an eye. If they get hot, there no good anymore. Be careful. UFO posted a method a few months ago, cant find it myself.
Dana

[sampojo]

Grinding Magnets whew Thanks Dana

@ Joe
I remember something about working with magnets and that is ,they can explode with too much force or heat.
Dana

I've conducted some test grinds, seem slow to heat up, but being careful about the heat, I figured they'd lose magnetism. Break out the goggles...

Regarding the Dual Pent. Y pattern for 8-brush system, you guys beat that to death I see last August on a 20 pole, around Page 50. Looks convertible to 10-pole. So I got to have 10 of those miserable dangling spools! At least I am moving up to 22ga. So sick of the little stuff.

[IndianaBoys]

@ Joe
I remember something about working with magnets and that is ,they can explode with too much force or heat. I would caution you to check out correct method of grinding them and save an eye. If they get hot, there no good anymore. Be careful. UFO posted a method a few months ago, cant find it myself.
Dana

Prochiro,

You are right, Ufopolitics was referring to using diamond blades:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines-66.html#post209070

IndianaBoys

[Lightworker1]

How did you align the commutators on your Goldmine motor?

Hello @4lpha1

I first designed this laser alignment table
This laser is similar to one used on the bench drill press.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jr5ba4igsldqfb9/2013-01-04%2012.31.04.jpg

Alignment in use

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pg0uuerj5bo36k5/2012-12-20%2010.50.31.jpg

Another example of alignment of the two commutators on the 5 pole armature rotor

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtylkf5lfjy54p7/2012-12-20%2010.37.29.jpg

Notice the longer shaft

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgewn71461uwkzw/2012-11-12%2021.37.57.jpg

Here I have replaced original shorter shaft with a longer shaft

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f0ckqfkh2rlpod8/2012-11-16%2011.52.18.jpg

I hope thois helps.
If there are any more questions, please let me know.

Warmest regards

lightworker