My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[JohnStone]

...
Now, may I ask you...are you pulsing or linear feeding the AC Stators?
....

Hi Ufo,
I do not pulse my motor yet. I will do thorough measurements with DC first. I do not like discussions later on based on assumptions.
I just have built a jig ready in order to measure the stall torque over a angle + - 90° from bisectors being aligned. I want to have a solid lab note from all my procedures and I will share them all. And just now I go to my lab in order to take the measurements. I can tell you now that if bisectors aligned I get 0.23 Nm at 11.5 V / 5.5 A from an armature having 50mm diameter.

BTW: I purchased 10 min. before a torque sensor for measurements at run time (60€uro) +- 200Nm range
Warm regards
JohnS

[selnet]

Hello Johnstone
I ve payed attention about the issues which you mentioned.For the resistance I have a special golvanometer. and the positions are the same like UFO drawed also two brushes are exact across the mid of the magnets also " stators dead center line and brushes center line are superposed".All are correct.You say that you have used 0.45 mm wire and 7 meter have approx. 1 Ohm. I have measured 1 meter 0.45 mm wire have 0.11 Ohm. For me the wiring is important I dont want to draw any current out of the system but BEMF must support the feeding also more torq that is the matter for me. What do you think which wiring would be more efficient?Above I ve given 2 thumbnails.
Hello Turion
Thank you for your elektronic basic knowledge I know what COP means And I try to measure exact this what you said .I dont want to measure torq or etc. which the other member friends have made but direct INPUT electric and OUTPUT electric .It will show if that is an overunity or not.Correct?

Thanks for all helps
selnet

[prochiro]

Selnet

Hello Johnstone
I ve payed attention about the issues which you mentioned.For the resistance I have a special golvanometer. and the positions are the same like UFO drawed also two brushes are exact across the mid of the magnets also " stators dead center line and brushes center line are superposed".All are correct.You say that you have used 0.45 mm wire and 7 meter have approx. 1 Ohm. I have measured 1 meter 0.45 mm wire have 0.11 Ohm. For me the wiring is important I dont want to draw any current out of the system but BEMF must support the feeding also more torq that is the matter for me. What do you think which wiring would be more efficient?Above I ve given 2 thumbnails.
Hello Turion
Thank you for your elektronic basic knowledge I know what COP means And I try to measure exact this what you said .I dont want to measure torq or etc. which the other member friends have made but direct INPUT electric and OUTPUT electric .It will show if that is an overunity or not.Correct?

Thanks for all helps
selnet

UFO told you on this page that those were not the correct way to set up the motor. Here is the correct way... You must be getting mixed up by the drawing as it is. Read the red notice at top. This drawing is correct but the positive and negative leads on the motor are reversed only for simplicity. They are diagonal in reality.
Dana

[selnet]

Hello UFO
Yes UFO I didnt understand your technology but I try to do it And I have never the intention to confuse the heads of other people for this I have no reason .I read nearly all the messages from you but I didnt see ant clear connect wiring it is possible that I cant. Please do that one more time How do we connect the end wires ?First I ve written that if it goes about radiant energy we dont have any relation with Amps but pure voltage .Actually I look for this radiant energy in the asymmetric motor.Thanks for all helps.
selnet

[JohnStone]

Hello Johnstone
I ve payed attention about the issues which you mentioned.For the resistance I have a special golvanometer. and the positions are the same like UFO drawed also two brushes are exact across the mid of the magnets also " stators dead center line and brushes center line are superposed".All are correct.You say that you have used 0.45 mm wire and 7 meter have approx. 1 Ohm. I have measured 1 meter 0.45 mm wire have 0.11 Ohm. For me the wiring is important I dont want to draw any current out of the system but BEMF must support the feeding also more torq that is the matter for me. What do you think which wiring would be more efficient?Above I ve given 2 thumbnails.
Hello Turion
Thank you for your elektronic basic knowledge I know what COP means And I try to measure exact this what you said .I dont want to measure torq or etc. which the other member friends have made but direct INPUT electric and OUTPUT electric .It will show if that is an overunity or not.Correct?

Thanks for all helps
selnet

Hi Selnet,
you should start with two brushes and motor action first. Im am not an expert in Ufo motors. I go first steps with a vacuum motor. But I shurely know that every minute step has its own implications and if you do two steps at one time you square your implications. So if you have problems with too high current you need to solve this problem first. So did I.

Next step will be to extract some power from the generator side and observe the overall behaviour. Then you can judge if you are ready for combining both subsystems. Ufo talked of impeance matching. It makes no sense if your motor part draws high current and at same time you try to push it througt generator section if this part is not able to handle this current.

The matters discussed here are not instructables only - it is research. That includes lots of uncertainities and unknown side effects. If you are so keen to jump directly in troubled waters there might be no people here being able to help.
Please take this advice and go step by step - it is better for your personal success. I write these thoughts not to you only but to all persons in this thread being impatient und not experienced in research matters.
I will post soon my first lab note with very basic measurements and you will see how minute steps take lots of effort.
rgds John

[JohnStone]

Trque Diagram

Hi All,
here you are! I measured in stall mode: torque [Nm] vs. sweep angle [°] for a single coil pair.


0 degeree is where the bisector of north magnet and bisector of coil pair match. The odd figures for degrees originate from the measurement jig. (small chain wound around a pulley / 16 chain links correspond to 90°])

Discussion of results:

1. Magnets show no homegeneous field over their pole area. The interference between the armature poles passing and the noth magent can be seen in the graph by different amplitudes.
2. The active area is not symmetrical around the 0 degree area. The area before matching bisectors is grater than after the match point (0°) (-45° ... +33°) Ufo's comments do not match with these values measured. This might so because of additional interactions with south pole of stator.
3. These results refer to one single coil pair. In real operation there are two coil pairs active (three for very short time) at same time. Another measurement is necesary in order to evaluate exact position of the brushes.
4. These results may be different if the generator section being active at same time.

Official lab notes will be posted soon.
JohnS

[prochiro]

27 degrees

Hi All,
here you are! I measured in stall mode: torque [Nm] vs. sweep angle [°] for a single coil pair.


0 degree is where the bisector of north magnet and bisector of coil pair match
Discussion of results:

1. Magnets show no homogeneous field over their pole area. The interference between the armature poles passing and the North magnet can be seen in the graph by different amplitudes.
2. The active area is not symmetrical around the 0 degree area. The area before matching bisectors is grater than after the match point (0°) (-45° ... +33°) Ufo's comments do not match with these values measured.

Official lab notes will be posted soon.
JohnS

John
That power area smacks of the 27 degrees we found to be the best effective area back in monopole2 when min2oly made a video obout it. From what I remember, that 27 degrees was always the best angle. It just goes to show that accurate studies pays off.


Dana

[prochiro]

JohnS

Hi JohnS
Here is that film
Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short - YouTube
Notice where he puts the green trigger coil, 27 dgrees off TDC.
Dana

[s e t h]

hi selnet
while Ufopolitics machines deliver output such output is only one of the main goals.
the main goal as far as i see is to add the rotational force equivalent to BEMF to the standard EMF rather than letting the the BEMF hinder the rotation and limit the final speed/torque.
this is achieved by recovering the energy expended to build the magnetic field while the coil is in a generating/collapsing phase. during the recovery process this energy still contains a changing magnetic field untill recovery is fully complete. timing the recovery process so that optimal angles for the changing magnetic fields of the rotor coils to interect iether with the stator magnets or stator coils and provide desired rotation force could improve the overall efficiency of the machine.
then the output voltage from the generator brushes can no doubt be used for some usefull purpose too.
and finally when optimising this process through research and tests we may uncover more and better ways to improve performance.
for instance it may become accepted that the radiant energy you say you seek is available from the generator brushes of these designs while also being used for rotational force and overall electromotive performance.

[JohnStone]

Torque

Now we have additional data with two coil pairs:

The active area shifts to positive angles. But the maximum torque lives within +-33 degree.

IMPORTANT:
Theses measurements refer to static behaviour of the motor only - not dynamic. It is just a narrow view to just one property of this motor.
The torque generation by the colapsing magnetic field was not accounted here. This happens way after matching bisectors and adds there its torque.

[s e t h]

very nice JohnStone...i can't wait to see data from pulsed dc too

[JohnStone]

Hi JohnS
Here is that film
Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short - YouTube
Notice where he puts the green trigger coil, 27 dgrees off TDC.
Dana

Thanks! I referred before to another vid from him and did not get any connection to the matter.
He prevents the main coil from geting ANY enrgy flowing into the cap but commands to get a certain slice out of the total action.
Neverthesless voltage is no power.
John

[JohnStone]

very nice JohnStone...i can't wait to see data from pulsed dc too

Sorry - I will stress your patience .
Next I will check some running properties of the motor and then the generator part. It is essential for me in order to get a feeling of this nice beast.
I prepare to measure real shaft power while running. And I will take thorough lab notes.
JohnS

[s e t h]

of course...when you're good and ready.
a pic or two of your machine/bench would be fun too

[JohnStone]

of course...when you're good and ready.
a pic or two of your machine/bench would be fun too

Yes well! You will be amazed - very unusal jig You will find ALL data in the lab notes - except my identity and living place - a rural area in the global village:-)
JohnS