My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[mklimesh]

nice

I agree
Nice work machinealive (+_+)

Mike Klimesh

[Ufopolitics]

Hello John

An approach:
What is the copper wire diameter in the brand new motor? Calulate the amperage (mine is 220V / 1000W-> 5A) and the losses for a original winding. The motor was built for these losses. Factors: Amperage / copper diameter / copper length...... No idea what duty time these windings are loaded.

Here you find a calculator. But the amperage is not for coils but in free wiring.

I have the strong feeling that normal wound motors will dissipate more power than UFO's motors. Note that our motor coils will be driven not in steady mode.
Here is my calculation:
We have 22 elements on cummutator. The brushes cover 1.5 elements. So a single element will be powered for a duty of 2.5 elements from the very first contact to the very last contact to the brushes.
Therefore the duty cycle is not 1/22 but 1/22*2.5=0.11.
Additionally there are two different windings active at any time. So we know that the current in an individual coil is one half from the input current measured.

Not shure if this calculation holds but it is my first attempt in order to get a first guess.
I would like to use the same wire diameter like original if I clacualte 5A and double the wire for 10A.
rgds John

Hello John,

You are correct John...your calculations are very accurate.

Now one thing you must have into account to calculate wire gauge in your new Asymmetric Machine versus the Symmetric:

In Symmetry , it can "afford" to have very low turns per Pole and a heavy gauge wire, since they are ALL in series in sections of 180 degrees (two brush system), so in your case of 22 poles...like you have said before...brushes divide exactly in two the whole Rotor Coils, or 11N and 11S poles at all time, now, that is Two Sets of 11 Coils in series Internally and in Parallel related to the other group of 11 Coils in series, per "momentum" of the interaction...or:

[11 coils series projecting South for 180 degrees] connected in parallel to [11 coils series projecting North for 180 degrees]

Now, the way they do their "progressive rotation" is One by One at each Group of 11 Coils are "exchanging" between the other group, meaning, One by One will be transferring on each end of the Brush plane, and of course...reversing electrical-magnetic polarities.

Therefore in Asymmetry, in order to "match" to original Symmetry momentum configuration, we must use the Total Resistance of each 11 coils or R11North + R11South divided by 2 (parallel formula)...or:

Total Resistance=R11+R11/2

And here in order to really balance it, I believe it would be difficult using the same awg wire (gauge) without some conflict with space to wind...so a finer awg will render that resistance with less amount of wire.

then as you wrote...

I checked the brushes and they will engage two winding sets at any time.

You must consider to match -at least- Two Sets of Coils or Two Pairs- to be close to the Total Resistance on the symmetric motor...understand?

Let me know


Now the "Matching" of Momentum between Symm and Asymm, as I wrote before, is basically for purposes of Comparing Machines at "Fair Grounds" for Amperage Draw...as also, other parameters involved in the Testing, like Torque, Speed, Power, Efficiency, etc...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Awesome Machinealive!!

thank you Pmazz,

I cleaned it up some

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/452d1f8d.jpg

Also, I was sniffing around in the garage and found some nice maple for a stator

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/66dee2f1.jpg

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/b37035af.jpg

I am going to put another comm at the end of both sides, I think that would be nice and roomy, and still room for rollers and coupling too,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/696686b5.jpg

and finally, just to show how big the 6" X 6 " aluminum cyl. is compared to the 4" X 3" I just finished,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/95a68353.jpg

Hello Machinealive!!

That winding job looks awesome!!

I see your conflict with one of the commutators...you could try to push upper coils area a bit towards the outer rim of rotor (without getting in the rotating air gap limits)...one by one...and that may clear a bit.
One thing I note is that you have used electric black tape to hold coils tight...I noted in all South Coils picture...then in the outer Coils also...Now, realize that some electric tape is not to go above certain temperature...basically its never drying glue...and it is going to smell in the first runs...so do not panic , thinking is burning up...

What I recommend is to use next time is some Fiberglass Cloth or the Fine Rope/Cord they make for those purposes to tight coils.
And for the "hedges" to slide between poles gaps...they make this heavy paper, also based on high temp fibers, that could be cut to size and insert it while pushing wires with a wood or plastic, round edges knife...even a wooden paint stick, softening its edges will do as a great tool.

Any local Electric Motor repair shop could show you all this materials...

And the same exact "deal" applies to your future Wood Stator Core, even though, there you could use on top of sanded wood, a nice High Temp epoxy or Fiberglass- Polyester Resin...This materials will isolate the heat from wires to get to wood...as they also heat sink it.

Now that "going to be" three pole core is an impressive size piece of Aluminum...nice !!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Geez Turion!!

The rotor with wires on it WILL be part of the generator...as soon as I take the wire off. I have two more that ALSO need to have the wire removed, and then all five will be put together and wound as ONE big loooong armature.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Wow Dave!!...

and then all five will be put together and wound as ONE big loooong armature.

Jesus Dave!!...are you gonna power Your whole Town!!??

What am worry about is your total Generator Armature weight Dave...versus the prime mover...or the Motor Torque Calculations...remember that the faster is goes the more it produces...but that will get slowed down by weight...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[s e t h]

oh no! new dual assymetrical design lol

i have been thinking a little regarding input sweep angles.

would you mind having a look at the lowest picture and thinking if maybe there are any benefits. yes the coils get reversed but they have 120 degrees where they are un-powered in-between reversing power-on states. also my rendering of the situation could easily be full of errors.

I'm not trying to purposefully muddy the waters here but this design has identical input sweeps to standard symmetrical 3-pole while still hopefully delivering something useful extra.

it will certainly deliver more friction

[pmazz850]

Machinealive,
If i were you i would make sure aluminum works as a suitable core before i go drilling out that six inch monster. Aluminum is said to not be good in motors due to eddy currents, i believe.
Regards,
Pmazz.

[Ufopolitics]

You are right Pmazz

Machinealive,
If i were you i would make sure aluminum works as a suitable core before i go drilling out that six inch monster. Aluminum is said to not be good in motors due to eddy currents, i believe.
Regards,
Pmazz.

Hey Pmazz,

Yes you are right, I particularly have NOT tried Aluminum as a core in a Motor...and the tests I did were on Static Coils, I used it as center core wall and it did not work successfully as allowing Inner Secondaries to induce Radiant...but again...it was Radiant...not Hot

Now Aluminum is a Paramagnetic Material, it means it become magnetized by a Magnetic Field...and the good part that we all need here is NOT to have magnetic "memory"...Al does NOT have ANY...so from that point of view it should work...

But the only way to know...is when Machinealive tell us about it...


Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[noname100]

If you need clarification on the mechanism that such energy making device could work , pm me.

[DadHav]

thank you Pmazz,

I cleaned it up some

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/452d1f8d.jpg

Also, I was sniffing around in the garage and found some nice maple for a stator

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/66dee2f1.jpg

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/b37035af.jpg

I am going to put another comm at the end of both sides, I think that would be nice and roomy, and still room for rollers and coupling too,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/696686b5.jpg

and finally, just to show how big the 6" X 6 " aluminum cyl. is compared to the 4" X 3" I just finished,

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...e/95a68353.jpg

Hey Machine, forgive me for asking because I must have missed something. Your armature is made of aluminum right? Does that mean you are going to use coils for the field instead of magnets?
John Hav.

[DadHav]

Machinealive,
If i were you i would make sure aluminum works as a suitable core before i go drilling out that six inch monster. Aluminum is said to not be good in motors due to eddy currents, i believe.
Regards,
Pmazz.

Yes, I asked Machine a question but didn't see you address it here. Normally you don't want to move a magnet past aluminum. There can be a drag that you wouldn't believe. That's why I asked machine if he was going to use coils instead of magnets. The effect is called Paramagnetic Anomaly. You can see the effect very simple by letting a magnet slide down the side of a sheet of aluminum or drop one down a tube. You'll wonder what's happening as it passes along so slowly from the drag. You can spin your rotor past the magnets and see what you get. I hope it works out OK.
John Hav.

[noname100]

I'm really tired of reading 30 pages since I was without internet , can somebody explain to me what have you achieved, I already have a certain theory that explains all of this but I want to make sure I'm in the right path.

[wantomake]

Hello Wantomake,

Ok, I will prep a Diagram for You...I do not have a 16 Pole Pattern in CAD...so I will have to start from zero...but I will render it soon.

Now, some interesting tests you could do with your machine now...coupled to one of your Generators heads...is to add to Generator under a known load given in Watts...versus what V and A the Prime mover (Asymmetrical Modified) is taking...so it is Watts In against Watts Out...and let's "disregard" the Asymmetric Machine output for now...in order you could inject also through the Output like you did before(Turbo Boost)..in case when load applied to Generator Head...RPM's drop too much...

I want you to run the Generator Head with either one of your Mod's...one you have now or the one I will give you...and I want you to be witness that you will be outputting higher Watts than In...I want to finish this "dilemma" of up to now a "fiction" once and for all...and is great you have Gen Heads!!

Whenever you have a chance tell Us what kind of Wattage the Heads output...

Edit: You can NOT apply the Turbo Boost for too long!!...it will get hot!...since you are not releasing ANY output...Armature will overload...Ok?...But you could do it "just in case" it is required...but play with different loads...from small to higher first, with normal Input...


Thanks!


Cheers


Ufopolitics

My best teacher Ufopolitics,

Please forgive my slow mind to follow your instructions.

1. You want me to record watts used by mod motor to turn a generator.

2. Then record watts output of the generator as it is turned.

The only problem is the battery voltage to power the coils of the geny as it is producing. So don't worry about anything but #1 and #2. Right.

I'm still new to all of this, though I've replicated a few of the builds in these forums. But what I lack in knowledge I can give to the project -time, spare parts, some testing, great interest and willing heart.

Thanks for your patience,
wantomake

[machinealive]

Hey dadhav,

Just on my lunch break, yes, I will be using a big coil to pulse this beast, like we need to if you want to get radiant out as well.

[DadHav]

Hey dadhav,

Just on my lunch break, yes, I will be using a big coil to pulse this beast, like we need to if you want to get radiant out as well.

Hmm, That sounds like it will work. Your probably talking about low frequency and slightly lower RPM's I would imagine.
Good Luck
J

[prochiro]

P-22 / 90 degrees

Hello UFO
On the P-22 diagram, if it is possible to move brush position 90 degrees as I am having the same Bolts between magnets as the 12 pole. My thoughts were to move P1 comm. wire to where P6 is. All others moved according to that. Would that work, all else the same?

If not I must fabracate a new set of endcaps.
Dana