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Water Fuel This forum is for discussion on any water fuel topic dealing with electrolysis, Stanley Meyer, hho, Brown's Gas, Puharich, etc...

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  #61  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:10 PM
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Arrow ionization by collision repost

repost blip from other message:

Also read this page thoroughly...study it:
K9 Passage of electricity through gases
(I'd recommend copying this entire page
because it is a great summary of ionization by collision)

Ionization by collision is where a lot of water gas is produced without having to increase the power to the cell...as electrons are freed, they accelerate towards the annode knocking out electrons from other water molecules on the way...that is FREE water gas production without extra input. The higher the voltage, the stronger the effect, but again, pointless unless you can maintain true HV in the gap. This effect will be there with any true HV potential/electrostatic separation of water.

If the ions move 25,000 faster in air than in water, once gas is separated as best possible, then the hho can be further destabilized by this method through virtually the same process outside of the wfc.

I'd use a true water capacitor and a true air capacitor afterwards using same processes to lock in the voltages.

Meyer continually showed that destabilizing the oxygen by stripping more electrons keep cranking up the power you get out of the same volume of gas so 1 liter is not 1 liter (in terms of explosive power). Hypergas (in the Wiseman Brown's Gas world) is possibly the same or similar effect on the gases being destabilized by this unintentionally.
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  #62  
Old 11-24-2008, 03:20 PM
PArAd0X PArAd0X is offline
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Ionization by collision seems quite similar to what goes on inside a Xenon flash tube

I.e. an excitor voltage produces the necessary electrons for current flow to take place inside a xenon tube. An excitor voltage is necessary because noble gases have no "free electrons", so they must be supplied.

Maybe similar to the reaction taking place in the cell?

I would like to see what would happen if pure water vapour is put inside a xenon tube and it is flashed...
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  #63  
Old 12-24-2008, 06:18 PM
Huckmubb Huckmubb is offline
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Hey guys, good info. I just wanted to post my results. For me, bifilar inductors have never worked on the WFC capacitor.

I have been experimenting for a few months playing with inductors. I built a water capacitor that is not really good, but has some capacitance. When I pulse it with 400 volt radiant pulses from a solid state bedini charger, I can charge the capacitor to a certain value - call this 100%. If I add any type of charging choke, the charge in the capacitor drops by about 25%. The largest bifilar charging chokes drop the maximum voltage charge by 50% or more and it won't climb anymore. If I wind the coils in a specific way, I get reduced power and no spikes. If I wind them a different way, even with using the blocking diode, I notice that there are AC VOLTAGE spikes (not pure DC). I have not found any possible way to hook up the bifilar charging chokes, I have tried about 5 different sizes of chokes from tiny 10 turn to 1500 turns and everything in between and there has never been an appreciable gain in maximum voltage gain in the capacitor (WFC). Has anyone actually tested this on a bench and proved that you can gain more voltage using bifilar inductors in series with the water fuel cell?

I am using pulsed DC square waves. All of the reactive radiant voltage comes from the main pulsing transformer coil, and no additional energy comes from the bifilar coils. How can the bifilar coils charge the water when no current is passing in the bifilar coils. You need current to charge the bifilar coils, but my water capacitor has no appreciable resistance, so the bifilar coils don't charge, therefore they have no stored magnetic energy. I am lost as to how the bifilar coils do anything if you are trying to use a high voltage low current charge.... You need current to induce flyback voltage in a given inductor right?

In my case, the best results in charging come from having no charging chokes at all.

I could be wiring the bifilar inductors wrong. I am going to try the tests again, because I am definetely not saying that I know what I'm doing. I am simply providing this information so I can get some feedback. I hope to hear from you guys! This has been great reading, thanks for all the input so far!

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  #64  
Old 12-24-2008, 06:52 PM
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chokes and cell

Hi Huckmubb,

What voltage did you measure on your wfc when pulsing 400v?

The inner/outer tube setup needs to be encased in an insulator to isolate it from the water bath to lock in the potential.

The chokes should be wired EM coupled style like Tesla's pancake coils.
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  #65  
Old 12-24-2008, 08:01 PM
dankie dankie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckmubb View Post
Hey guys, good info. I just wanted to post my results. For me, bifilar inductors have never worked on the WFC capacitor.

I have been experimenting for a few months playing with inductors. I built a water capacitor that is not really good, but has some capacitance. When I pulse it with 400 volt radiant pulses from a solid state bedini charger, I can charge the capacitor to a certain value - call this 100%. If I add any type of charging choke, the charge in the capacitor drops by about 25%. The largest bifilar charging chokes drop the maximum voltage charge by 50% or more and it won't climb anymore. If I wind the coils in a specific way, I get reduced power and no spikes. If I wind them a different way, even with using the blocking diode, I notice that there are AC VOLTAGE spikes (not pure DC). I have not found any possible way to hook up the bifilar charging chokes, I have tried about 5 different sizes of chokes from tiny 10 turn to 1500 turns and everything in between and there has never been an appreciable gain in maximum voltage gain in the capacitor (WFC). Has anyone actually tested this on a bench and proved that you can gain more voltage using bifilar inductors in series with the water fuel cell?

I am using pulsed DC square waves. All of the reactive radiant voltage comes from the main pulsing transformer coil, and no additional energy comes from the bifilar coils. How can the bifilar coils charge the water when no current is passing in the bifilar coils. You need current to charge the bifilar coils, but my water capacitor has no appreciable resistance, so the bifilar coils don't charge, therefore they have no stored magnetic energy. I am lost as to how the bifilar coils do anything if you are trying to use a high voltage low current charge.... You need current to induce flyback voltage in a given inductor right?

In my case, the best results in charging come from having no charging chokes at all.

I could be wiring the bifilar inductors wrong. I am going to try the tests again, because I am definetely not saying that I know what I'm doing. I am simply providing this information so I can get some feedback. I hope to hear from you guys! This has been great reading, thanks for all the input so far!

The same thing happened to me when I did the bifilar setup with toroid .

It blows my mind how deceptively simple the Meyer technology appears on the surface, yet how it becomes a rabbit hole you keep tumbling down. It looks like pulsed current electrolysis, but isn't. It looks like simple pulsed high voltage, but current is voltage over resistance so that would imply pulsed high current. Impurities in water only changed the resonant frequency, they did not significantly alter the power requirements. This can only be if the conductivity of the water was taken out of the equation through lack of real current through the water, which of course is what Meyer was trying to do.

It really looks to me like the cell was powered by displacement current or longitudinal electron oscillations, even time/gravity waves since longitudinal (compression/expansion) electron density oscillations generate those.

http://www.cazv.cz/2003/2002/tech1_02/Strebkov.pdf

-- check out the PDF link , it says that power could be sent over copper, steel, water, damp earth without resistive losses. That explains why Meyer was using stainless steel coils at one point, to truly restrict the regular current while allowing through this longitudinal energy that ignores resistance anyway.

So when people talk about restricting amps and allowing through only voltage, that is kind of misleading because someone could say like I did, "If you put voltage across the water gap, the water resistance will see that voltage and create current. It's Ohm's Law. To cut off that current, you'd have to cut off the voltage." -- but not so if by "voltage" you mean something more like longitudinal / scalar / temporal / gravitational energy, aka some unconventional electron behavior. I think everyone deeply interested in the Meyer technology should study up on Avramenko
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  #66  
Old 01-03-2009, 07:10 PM
Gauss Gauss is offline
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This thread is really interesting.

I just want to add my experiences about bifilar coils:

1) Pancake coils offer true voltage gain, no magnetic field gain and that is why the voltage gain is massive, each turn of wire neutralizes the next turnīs magnetic field, hence you have the skin effect between each succesive turn.

2) The "normal" cylindrical bifilar coil is a magnetic field gainer and is not very different from normal coils, just winding technique.

3) The conical coil is the most interesting since it gives a combination of voltage and magnetic field gains.

Remember E = B/T; I = Dielec. flux/T; Z(Impedance) = E/I

Hence we should never speak about bifilar coils without specifying our geometry of each successive turn in relation to eachother(angle).

Anyway, Aaron, where can I find your WFC replication specifics and results?

Thanks in advance.
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  #67  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:06 PM
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WFC is not a capacitor. There are two of them in WFC...
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  #68  
Old 01-05-2009, 01:34 PM
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Are you speaking to me?? No clue what that was about.

Anyway, Aaron do you have som stats about your WFC replication?
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  #69  
Old 01-05-2009, 05:15 PM
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wfc results

hi, there are no miraculous results with my tests. I would recommend the RAVI document on the WFC for a good compilation of his test results.
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  #70  
Old 01-06-2009, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
Are you speaking to me?? No clue what that was about.

Anyway, Aaron do you have som stats about your WFC replication?
Each of tube is a single capacitor, not just two of them.Two not connected electrically circuits. No current flow between plates because no electrical coupling between them.Think like John Kanzius.Listen to Tom Bearden. Two transmitters close enough, two antennas.Scalar wave interferometry. Got it ?
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:43 AM
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Ok, thanks! I will check.
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  #72  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:38 PM
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Anyone tried to build the VIC so far? Surely someone must have, the later VIC is just an integrated version of the first famous one which is probably very primitve compared to the last one. If you look closely you will see there is no need for a viper arm to adjust one choke, anyone can help me on that one, how and why it is like this? Even the diode is left out in some late drawings, there are nodes etc.... He probably got very far in the last few years.
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  #73  
Old 04-19-2009, 11:02 PM
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Hi Aron you are in the right track. Have you thought about tried pure water (hi dielectric) and stainless steel coils bifilar arranged inside water as electrodes and inductors at the same time??? Electric shower resistance wire is stainless steel. Where you can put a load in a tank circuit? Remember voltage is also =Current x Resistance and will be very small between the plates if they are insulated like this because the dielectric permeability of corona... or any "plastic" is very small this way if you have 1mm insulation of a 10 dielectric constant and 1 mm of water 80 dielectric constant you have for example applying 40kv you have 32 kv/mm on the insulation and only 4 kv/mm on water. There are some patents witch mention at least 2500 constants for the insulation colision. That is easy with barium titanate. Any way visit and join our facebook cause Causes on Facebook | Power to the People we are trying to put money together for the construction of prototypes and as soon as we have working prototypes we can and know how to release this technology in the safest way for all of us.
thanks and good luck.
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  #74  
Old 02-09-2010, 02:48 AM
Toborg Toborg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dankie View Post
The same thing happened to me when I did the bifilar setup with toroid .

It blows my mind how deceptively simple the Meyer technology appears on the surface, yet how it becomes a rabbit hole you keep tumbling down. It looks like pulsed current electrolysis, but isn't. It looks like simple pulsed high voltage, but current is voltage over resistance so that would imply pulsed high current. Impurities in water only changed the resonant frequency, they did not significantly alter the power requirements. This can only be if the conductivity of the water was taken out of the equation through lack of real current through the water, which of course is what Meyer was trying to do.

It really looks to me like the cell was powered by displacement current or longitudinal electron oscillations, even time/gravity waves since longitudinal (compression/expansion) electron density oscillations generate those.

http://www.cazv.cz/2003/2002/tech1_02/Strebkov.pdf

-- check out the PDF link , it says that power could be sent over copper, steel, water, damp earth without resistive losses. That explains why Meyer was using stainless steel coils at one point, to truly restrict the regular current while allowing through this longitudinal energy that ignores resistance anyway.

So when people talk about restricting amps and allowing through only voltage, that is kind of misleading because someone could say like I did, "If you put voltage across the water gap, the water resistance will see that voltage and create current. It's Ohm's Law. To cut off that current, you'd have to cut off the voltage." -- but not so if by "voltage" you mean something more like longitudinal / scalar / temporal / gravitational energy, aka some unconventional electron behavior. I think everyone deeply interested in the Meyer technology should study up on Avramenko
Hey guy's, Try low voltage say 5 to 11vdc to polarize the water in just one set of tubes and then inject a square wave pulse between 3,000 and 12,000 Hz. Also try a saw tooth pulse=== Right, its not electrolysis and he never said it was. And yes, almost all of his description and diagram are intentionally misleading. Insted of, try this as a charging choke.
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File Type: jpg NEOGEN_BIFILAR.jpg (140.6 KB, 62 views)
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  #75  
Old 02-09-2010, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post


choke #56 is drawn incorrectly - they are wrapped in the same direction. I'll get to that later.
I think choke are designed to reduce current, not to enhanced, thus it should be arranged in a self canceling way. The choke are used primarily for reducing current, not increasing voltage. I think figure 3-23 and 10-3B posted at the first post is correct.

Everyone ever read this?
Quote:
The WFC Voltage Intensifier Circuit (VIC) was especially developed to restrict amp flow while allowing voltage potential of opposite polarity to perform the work of separating the bipolar electrically charged water molecule by way of opposite Electrical Attraction Foce known as "Electrical Stress". The distributed self inductance of each coil inherently prevents amp influxing (retards current flow) accross the water gap; while, simultaneously, the distributed capacitance of each coil causes an increase of applied voltage potential of opposite polarity of equal intensity to be placed on opposite sides of the water molecule... performing the Electrical Polarization Process. Each coil further functions as resonant charging choke coils to tune in to the dielectric properties of water, when the applied pulse frequency is adjusted to incur minimum amp flow, while voltage potential attempts to surge toward infinity if the electronic circuit would allow this to occur. Increasing the number of turns of each coil in direct relationship to increasing applied pulse voltage amplitude increases the electrical stress accross at gap.



I think the weird shape of output can only be attained with FWBR. But I guess anyone having scope already knew this.
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  #76  
Old 11-19-2013, 01:34 PM
easy94 easy94 is offline
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SO at the end some results ?!?

Good moorning to everibody,

it's easy94 from Italy. Here it's about 3 pm and found very interesting this forum.

It's about 5 years that i fight for find the way to split the water molecula.

But after a stop of about 1 year becouse of a change of hause I'm going to restart my research.

I want to say first of all that in my long experimentation time i found, two times, a very vaschinating phenomenon.

During my work arround a simple circuit able to geneate a square wave at about 1100V, using distilled water something very strong happend.

An incredible ammount of gas was producted suddenly, so much that i was scared and decided to stop the reaction cutting the power.

Now, the problem is that it happend two times in my life, but in the same condition it will not restart again.

It seems it is not simple to replicate it.
I decide to investigate more using the bifilar inductace and other kind of variation in my circuit.

Now the question for you guys is what about your experiments? Some news ?
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  #77  
Old 02-21-2014, 12:15 AM
bartguy98 bartguy98 is offline
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Strong Reaction....

Easy, what did your circuit look like??
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  #78  
Old 02-21-2014, 02:18 PM
easy94 easy94 is offline
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Simple

It was a simple crcuit were the power supply was a transformer 220V -> 1300V powered from the line and then converted in DC . From tha point used a BU508AW driven with a signal of dual signal generator togheter in a AND logic.

The wather cell was between the transforme and the collector of the BJT.

Simple

easy

Anyway I tried recently a lot of circuits starting from the one of Meyer using distilled water and not, but every circuit, at the same power, was sensibly less efficient tha a regular DC Faradaian electrolisys.
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  #79  
Old 09-04-2014, 08:59 AM
Rakarskiy Rakarskiy is offline
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replication scheme Lovton

this video recorded in Russia in 2010, the replication scheme Lovton (with a little refinement) on the 555, the coil is taken from telefizor, parallel light to adjust the voltage of 12V. When the circuit is in resonance light goes out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxJa9BbVfuU
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:46 AM
mikrovolt mikrovolt is offline
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polar alignment

The relevance to discussion of water capacitor might touch on the
aspect of water molecule alignment.

There have been some demonstrations of how water becomes
magnetically coupled and amplifies near field signal by polar alignment.
While not directly related to Meyer it does shows how easy it is to
get water molecules to line up.

The video shows how an automobile key remote can extend it's
range by using jug of water or holding the remote to your head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uqf71muwWc
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