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  #1  
Old 05-14-2011, 04:11 PM
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thedude thedude is offline
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Separator cell from HHO-research.com.au build by thedude

Hello everybody! (Note: Now new and improved Separator Cell design more efficient, durable and gas stable - click to jump to newer images and video)

As i operate my life according to a principle of maximizing my time and energy spent toward the pursuit of new energy solutions, I do very often flounder and stumble. My direction becomes skewed and varied on many tangents and so often my projects do not produce any measure of functionality. Well not this time.

I have to give great credit to Reg and Peter at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories for their great separator cell design. It works. Currently they are reluctant to do international sales and are based out of Australia. Their website is a wealth of info and you might be able to work something out. I can make no promises as far as if they can help out on international orders.

My video of my Hydrogen - Oxygen Separator Cell build from HHO-research.com.au


And a few pictures

The finished Cell. Note the heavy connections. I would not recommend using air hose quick connectors as i have in this image. You can see impure elements in the steel that are oxidizing and causing rust on the ends. I will be swapping out for plastic 3/8" threaded fittings in the near future. They caused some yellow staining on the outlet tubes.


My rig. I've got a 2 bubbler (hydrogen in blue on the right and oxygen in 4" PVC on the left) and a main electrolyte holding tank (middle). The 2 power components on the left are a new lab 0-20volt, 0-20amp DC power supply i purchased from Ebay. and on top of it is the 0-30amp PWM which i purchased from HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories (works great and runs nice and cool). In the video i mention that the display is out of tune with actual amperage. Reg from hho-research.com.au advised that there is a tun-able adjustment Pot inside that i will regulate. In the video i am running at 10amps and 16volts at the power supply, standing voltage on the cell was about 12volts. I can push it up to about 16amps @ 20volts with the current amount of KOH - potassium hydroxide (I'm guessing i can do better). Edit - HA! LOL. HYDOGEN??? Crap I knew something didn't look right there. :P Oh well... too late now. I better go burn in a correction.


The tank system allows for the oxygen to bubble out through 4" PVC tank and loop back out and into the main tank (to collect overflow electrolyte). I'm still trying to sort out the physics involved, but being only 1 part Oxygen moving congruently to the 2 parts of hydrogen seems to draw an equal part of H2O along inline with the oxygen flow.


The flame. Quite small at this wattage but bigger than it appears for the most part. Nearly invisible to the eye, hydrogen shows up much better when using a catalyst to make its presence known. The camera, in this photo, actually picks it up better than my eye can. Being exclusively hydrogen offers a lot of benefits for both safety and usefulness. The applications for ambient heating, efficient usage in a combustion motor without having to adjust for advanced timing issues, or adjusting map sensors. The oxygen can literally undo the gains produced in burning straight HHO in a combustion motor. I'm going to be making another video on the different uses of the hydrogen gas flame.


Here is one of the Active (+) stainless plates. These are laser precision cut by hho-research.com.au . Unless you hire them to build your cell, you will need to either sand blast or use 60 grit wet/dry sand paper (as i did) to score and increase the surface exposure of the stainless sheet.


Here is a shot of one of the press-cut gaskets from hho-research. Note there is a small channel at the top leading to one side or the other, allowing you to direct the gases to one or the other side.


Then a laser cut membrane goes in between yet another gasket and then the next stainless sheet. Shims are used to keep the membranes from falling into the adjacent gasket channels on each side appropriately.


Knowing that neg produces hydrogen and pos produces oxygen, you can build your cell to separate the gas so one channel at the top will receive only hydrogen and the other will receive only oxygen. The end plates come as a un-drilled, un-tapped sheet of acrylic (i think). I think they don't recomment poly-carbonate as they will bust. I'll double check this. I do know that this build is not possible without a drill press and a tap set, unless you have hho-research build your cell for you at an additional cost.


The next step will be incorporating my new 6600 watt electric generator with a GEET reactor and vapour generator. I'm going to add the produced hydrogen to the fuel mixture and attempt to close the loop on the system by driving the electronics with the electric generator. We'll see how that goes. I'm well on my way and i'm going to see it through win or lose. The worst i can end up with is a really efficient electric generator. Maybe combine a small input to the system from a solar panel and i can put it over the top, so to speak. I already have 300watts of 6"x6" triple bus bar solar cells and will be assembling that panel soon too.

The costs are starting to mount up, but it sure is rewarding.

Thanks for watching and reading. I'll be back.

L&L
TheDude

Last edited by thedude; 06-09-2011 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:43 PM
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charly2 charly2 is offline
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Hey dude, that is really a nice solution (and compact) for the hho risks.
Time ago I had a similar idea but I never solved the problem about the membrane material, I got convinced that it was not so simple as I believed but, I was wrong.
Thanks for sharing!
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:33 PM
tecknomancer tecknomancer is offline
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Thumbs up One Dude, one completed setup, priceless

Way to go Dude!
that's a nice setup, best of luck
it's never easy but all the effort brings it's own reward


5 stars
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charly2 View Post
Hey dude, that is really a nice solution (and compact) for the hho risks.
Time ago I had a similar idea but I never solved the problem about the membrane material, I got convinced that it was not so simple as I believed but, I was wrong.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you Charly2. Yes its elegantly simple. Its really hard to know until works, because i had some problems with a one way check valve that was blocking water flow into the cell and causing intermittent pauses in production. Was pulling the cell apart and doubting the functionality of the gasket gaps and membranes. Was suspecting that it wasn't working as one side would stop and then the other for lengths of time. Once i had a nice full cell of water and electrolyte the gas flowed properly and consistently at a 1:2 , O:H relationship, and the membranes where working perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecknomancer View Post
Way to go Dude!
that's a nice setup, best of luck
it's never easy but all the effort brings it's own reward


5 stars
Right on tecknomancer! Thanks for your props! HHO-research.com.au - Reg and Peter really deserve the credit for their design. I guess i deserve credit for rolling the dice and winning on this one. :P I had one of those moments today where i really was seeing what i knew was going to be possible one day. A hydrogen torch on demand in my lab. I've thrown away a lot of money trying to build one from scratch by myself. The precision and the research that is put into this design is worth every penny, in my opinion. I'm actually hoping to add on to, or build a second cell to help distribute heat and increase total volume of gas. Need to fire up that generator! Thanks again.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:15 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Membrane

Hi thedude very nice build What material is that membrane?
Thanks.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:49 PM
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Checking on the membrane

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Hi thedude very nice build What material is that membrane?
Thanks.
Hi Guruji.

Good question on the membranes Guruji. They are made of 100% silkscreen nylon. They specifically mention that they are nearly impossible to cut accurately. I haven`t seen a spec on the thickness but will have a look or ask Reg or Peter. That is why they use a CNC laser cutting machine as in this video.

While your over at Youtube make sure and check out their newer more industrial sized separator cell in this video All i can say is WOW! Nice work HHO-research!

These guys are doing some real developments and want the public to see and learn their base line model. I`m really impressed with these guys.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:30 PM
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checking with them

Can`t seem to find thickness on the membranes, but i will ask and post here later. For now I took a couple shots.


Through the window.


Check out the water that is recombining at the bottom of these pots. Works great until the pot warms and the recombined water evaporates as quick as it is made. This water should be newly restructured. I think there is some benefits to using it somehow. Anyone hear of such a line of thought before…

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Old 05-15-2011, 03:49 PM
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correction on Industrial sized separator video

I made the assumption that large separator cell was hho-research video. Owner of that cell gives credit of the cell design to Reg and Peter though.

It looks like hes burning off the oxygen in that video. But that can't be right. thought he was burning off the oxygen (+) side off that long torch.

Last edited by thedude; 05-16-2011 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:21 PM
GadgetmanPrime GadgetmanPrime is offline
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I didn't know what I was missing!

For those of you who don't know me, before I started marketing The Gadgetman Groove, I started ClubHHO.com (now under the controls of my ex!)

I am so thrilled to see this! I've been so wrapped up in what I was doing, I haven't been following the developments in hydrogen technologies. I knew someone would come up with a way to do it that would withstand scientific scrutiny, and it seems the BEST stuff comes from Down Under.

Thanks for posting these shots and the blow-by-blow! Would love to see more!

Ron
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:06 PM
tecknomancer tecknomancer is offline
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try a Holepunch

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedude View Post
Hi Guruji.

Good question on the membranes Guruji. They are made of 100% silkscreen nylon. They specifically mention that they are nearly impossible to cut accurately. I haven`t seen a spec on the thickness but will have a look or ask Reg or Peter. That is why they use a CNC laser cutting machine as in this video.

While your over at Youtube make sure and check out their newer more industrial sized separator cell in this video All i can say is WOW! Nice work HHO-research!

These guys are doing some real developments and want the public to see and learn their base line model. I`m really impressed with these guys.
are talking about the holes if so..try a holepunch, I made one I can punch stainless steel with it, if you want to know how I will post it's simple
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecknomancer View Post
are talking about the holes if so..try a holepunch, I made one I can punch stainless steel with it, if you want to know how I will post it's simple
The material for the membrane must not be electric conductor, if you make it that way at the end you have 1 neutral plate more that produce hh in one side and "o" in the other so you get a regular dry hho cell.
It must allow the current flow from plate to plate and not convert itself in another plate. That is the basic idea.
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:43 PM
tecknomancer tecknomancer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charly2 View Post
The material for the membrane must not be electric conductor, if you make it that way at the end you have 1 neutral plate more that produce hh in one side and "o" in the other so you get a regular dry hho cell.
It must allow the current flow from plate to plate and not convert itself in another plate. That is the basic idea.
I was talking about a way to cut a perfect hole in any material including stainless steel not a type of material to use
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecknomancer View Post
are talking about the holes if so..try a holepunch, I made one I can punch stainless steel with it, if you want to know how I will post it's simple
I'm guessing you would use a double sided iron template that you could clamp down on the stainless, or nylon silk sreen membrane, or rubber gasket, that would have the hole alignment for you to use a hand punch to pound through the material with a hammer? :P

If that was indeed the method you used on the stainless Tech, was there much flaring of the steel at the hole? Would be pretty easy to tap flat any way i would bet. I would love to be able to manufacture my own cells. The cost of the equipment to do so has given me pause. Good suggestion Teckno, i never thought of using that technique on stainless.

The nylon membranes are quite strong and slippery, I know that hho-research.com.au use a clamped template to punch the gaskets and they are the ones claiming the membranes to be difficult to cut. I'm certain theres a way to do it with out a laser CNC. The material has very strong tensile strength. Given its slipperiness and small thickness, its possible that the nylon could get pushed through the hole unless your punch is extremely tight. I'll ask Reg or Peter at hho-research and see if they tried a punch.

I'm going to compile a short list of questions for them so i'm not contantly contacting them repeatedly, and report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetmanPrime View Post
For those of you who don't know me, before I started marketing The Gadgetman Groove, I started ClubHHO.com (now under the controls of my ex!)

I am so thrilled to see this! I've been so wrapped up in what I was doing, I haven't been following the developments in hydrogen technologies. I knew someone would come up with a way to do it that would withstand scientific scrutiny, and it seems the BEST stuff comes from Down Under.

Thanks for posting these shots and the blow-by-blow! Would love to see more!

Ron
Your welcome Ron. Thanks for your excitement.

Ya its great Ron! I've been striving for this ability for some time now too. Its really got me thinking around the clock on the different possibilities. I have a couple tesla turbines that i might hook up as steam driven electric generators at some point. Only one of them is really big enough to do anything productive. For now my main goal is the serving the hydrogen to the 6600watt electric generator with a GEET reactor. I'm guessing the whole thing should be together by the end of the month. I'm mainly just picking up small parts and welding another adapter for my muffler now. I think another cell will go on the list before the generator will be running on hydrogen by itself. Who knows though. A real GEET reactor really reduces the fuel consumption by a whole other measure. But that is another story for later.

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Old 05-15-2011, 10:57 PM
tecknomancer tecknomancer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedude View Post
I'm guessing you would use a double sided iron template that you could clamp down on the stainless, or nylon silk sreen membrane, or rubber gasket, that would have the hole alignment for you to use a hand punch to pound through the material with a hammer? :P

If that was indeed the method you used on the stainless Tech, was there much flaring of the steel at the hole? Would be pretty easy to tap flat any way i would bet. I would love to be able to manufacture my own cells. The cost of the equipment to do so has given me pause. Good suggestion Teckno, i never thought of using that technique on stainless.

The nylon membranes are quite strong and slippery, I know that hho-research.com.au use a clamped template to punch the gaskets and they are the ones claiming the membranes to be difficult to cut. I'm certain theres a way to do it with out a laser CNC. The material has very strong tensile strength. Given its slipperiness and small thickness, its possible that the nylon could get pushed through the hole unless your punch is extremely tight. I'll ask Reg or Peter at hho-research and see if they tried a punch.

I'm going to compile a short list of questions for them so i'm not contantly contacting them repeatedly, and report back.



Your welcome Ron. Thanks for your excitement.

Ya its great Ron! I've been striving for this ability for some time now too. Its really got me thinking around the clock on the different possibilities. I have a couple tesla turbines that i might hook up as steam driven electric generators at some point. Only one of them is really big enough to do anything productive. For now my main goal is the serving the hydrogen to the 6600watt electric generator with a GEET reactor. I'm guessing the whole thing should be together by the end of the month. I'm mainly just picking up small parts and welding another adapter for my muffler now. I think another cell will go on the list before the generator will be running on hydrogen by itself. Who knows though. A real GEET reactor really reduces the fuel consumption by a whole other measure. But that is another story for later.

yep that's the way to do it with bolts holding the iron plates in aliment and a small piece of same material that your cutting under the back, behind the bolts acting as a spacer to perfectly clamp the material works every time with a big honking hammer. I took my iron plates and had them cut with a water jet and that left a nice sharp edge on the hole so when I,m cutting stainless the hole is perfect every time no need to flatten it, trying to drill anything that thin is just asking for trouble
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:04 AM
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There is another guy doing a similar cell. Search YouTube for it. He was also sharing info with the Australian guys. He shows building metal templates for creating as many cells as you want. Maybe someone else here has his info they can post. Will continue to look for his info and post when found.

TheDude,

Thanks for posing your info,

IndianaBoys
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:26 AM
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8X8 GSC Gas Splitter Cell

Found it!

He has a few videos posted related to this design. Starts out with a smaller version 5x5 and moves up to the 8x8.

GSC = Gas Splitter Cell

8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

YouTube - 8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

8X8 GSC Construction Method
Videos Series
Part 1

He is also in the process of building a spectrophotometer to analyze the qualities in the separated gases.

He speaks/shows of it in the 4:50 mark on the below video:

8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp
YouTube - 8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp


Ash has a course up at Panacea that is copyrighted to Bill Williams:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/5X5...upport_Doc.pdf

IndianaBoys
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Last edited by IndianaBoys; 05-16-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:56 AM
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great fabrication techniques!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaBoys View Post
Found it!

He has a few videos posted related to this design. Starts out with a smaller version 5x5 and moves up to the 8x8.

GSC = Gas Splitter Cell

8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

YouTube - 8X8 GSC 8-13-2010 005.3gp

8X8 GSC Construction Method
Videos Series
Part 1

He is also in the process of building a spectrophotometer to analyze the qualities in the separated gases.

He speaks/shows of it in the 4:50 mark on the below video:

8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp
YouTube - 8X8 GSC 1st Run 9-18-2010.3gp


Ash has a course up at Panacea that is copyrighted to Bill Williams:

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/5X5...upport_Doc.pdf

IndianaBoys
Awesome links IndianaBoys. Always love videos that show the building techniques. I watched his whole playlist. He knows what hes doing. Sometimes the simplest processes can yield the greatest rewards. I really enjoy seeing people who are willing to share what they know, whole-heartedly, and don't mind making easier for others, the methods they had to plow the fields to learn. Thats the spirit of evolution.

I'm going to likely continue to purchase my cell materials from hho-research.com.au for now , simply because they are not asking for undo service fees. If you look on their site, you'll see the prices are not unfair. I'm really not sure why they advertise "no international sales". I wouldn't be reluctant to contact them to try and order if your so inclined. As long as they will help me, I want to deal with them if possible. They've given me a fair shake and were helpful when i was having trouble.

In time I'm going to be purchasing a Plasma cutter and a welder, just bought a router and drill press and electric generator and i'm in the middle of building a garage to put it all in. I plan to do more fabricating in the future as time permits and I can devote myself more full time to my pursuits.

Thanks again IndianaBoys. Good to hear from ya.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:17 AM
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A shout out to the Galt Network on Justin.tv

Hey all you guys from Galt network on Justin.tv. lol Thanks for bringing me my Alex every day. !! you rule.

I'd love to see if people think its theoretically possible generate enough straight Hydrogen to run a 322cc combustion engine that produces up to 6600watts.

Considering the volume (sorry need to do some LPM measurements really) of gas i'm able to generate at aprox 150watt input in my first video in this thread, surely a volume 4 times a large (4 cells) for 600watts would be enough to run that generator. I mean, really... ok, lets get crazy and say I have 8 cells for 8times as much volume of gas for 1200 watts, now lets play it safe and say i have to somehow end up spending an equal amount in transforming the source current from AC for a total of 2400 watts. Surely that much gas would run the generator? Doesn't that leave me with a pretty big window of free wattage on the 6600watt generator? I'm sorry for posing this question without real volume figures involved, but i will do a follow up with more info as time permits. And i'm speculating using the fact that i have a small flame that i can boil a pot of water on at 150watts(heavy measurement too) already.

This is not even considering the GEET reactor that is poised to increase efficiency. Once again a theoretical improvement.

Anyway. Its a lot of speculation, until it can be done. Sorry for rambling around. :P

Last edited by thedude; 05-17-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 05-17-2011, 01:36 AM
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Great work man, yes Bill has done well, Reg and Peter also, those tanks are Huge but we can get them down to fit in a car .

Nice work guys, we have Bills cell and Peter's/Reg on the way with some emissions test, we can get the scrubbers and sizes down to fit in a vehicle and will post all details when the cells are done.

Thanks Dude
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:07 PM
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thanks Ash!

Heya Ash! Nice to hear from you!

Yes, I'm really enjoying the separator cell. I'm going to add another cell of the same size, possibly going to order two more of them today. We'll see what the bank account tells me. :P

I'm not trying to sell anyone here, thats for sure. I have no affiliation with hho-research at this point, aside from being a customer that they have chosen to serve. I hope that they don't mind that I've posted their cell design to some degree here on these forums. I did so after it was mentioned to me, by them that they "wanted to get the base line model out to the public". That seemed to be my ok to share my images and what not.

Well off to the daily grind to bash some carpet into place. Me thinks the hydrogen business would be more fun!
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:42 PM
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Hi there.
I also made such a cell, but I used a crapy membrane material, it is a fabric for wind canceling. The cell works, but the efficiency is very low. Gasses are separating, but I will need to put the plates closer to each other, because now they are at 4mm distances, I will reduce this to 2mm and also increase the plate count. On a standard hho cell I can get a great current flow (20A) at already 2.5V per cell, with this cell I need loads of electrolyte and around 4V per cell for anything decent to bubble up, so smaller gaps between plates should work, also I think that membrane material is not the best thing to use. Another thing, What if I wanted to fill up a balloon with hydrogen alone? Wouldn't it be a problem? Because as the pressure build up in the hydrogen bubbler top, it will displace the water in the bubbler causing it to rise and overflow at the oxygen side. But if I close the oxygen bubbler output, the oxygen side pressure will increase causing the oxygen leech through the membrane and contaminating the pure hydrogen gas. How to solve this? Seems that one way could be to constantly monitor the pressure in poth bubblers and adjust it so that it is equal, but there must be a simpler way. Any ideas?

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Old 05-31-2011, 08:30 PM
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Another idea to solve this problem would be using an outlet on each bubbler of a tiny diameter say say 0.5mm2 for oxygen and 1mm2 for hydrogen. This should make the bubbler pressure go up and be maintained equal at both bubblers. It would be just like putting your torch exit directly on top of the bubbler. And since the bubbler pressure would be greater than the pressure needed to inflate a balloon, it should inflate it without raising electrolyte level in the other bubbler or making the hydrogen leech back to oxygen side via the membrane.
What are your thoughts?
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:29 AM
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Another idea to solve this problem would be using an outlet on each bubbler of a tiny diameter say say 0.5mm2 for oxygen and 1mm2 for hydrogen. This should make the bubbler pressure go up and be maintained equal at both bubblers. It would be just like putting your torch exit directly on top of the bubbler. And since the bubbler pressure would be greater than the pressure needed to inflate a balloon, it should inflate it without raising electrolyte level in the other bubbler or making the hydrogen leech back to oxygen side via the membrane.
What are your thoughts?
Heya Jetijs. Great build you have there. I love your double bubbler/main water tank combo!! Capital thinking my friend. Yours was one of the very first pancake stack-style hho cells I'd ever seen in a thread here at energeticforum. I knew you would be in on separating the gas. I know hho-research is using silk-screen nylon. Reg over there sent me some newer material for my next two cells that i'm currently building. This nylon can be heat shrink tightened to create a consistent membrane to gap displacement. I really don't know who his supplier is on the new material yet but I just sent him an email and I will respond here ASAP.

Quote from Reg at hho-research.com.au, "We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option". Personally i'm not used to the input power i've been using since i built this cell, so at this point i'm not much of an expert. I will say that i'm very pleased with the efficiency i'm observing. I'm able to light my torch for as little as 50 watts.

With regard to the pressure back flow issues. Yes, i have what you describe almost exactly on my oxygen exhaust (goes out of its bubbler back up into the top of my main tank). Its basically a threaded hex cap that i drilled a small 1.5mm or so hole in. Pretty much just what you were describing. It seems that the more current and gas you create the less this outlet restriction is required. I do find that there is a issue with the oxygen tank over flowing. ( i think it has to do with vacuum in the 2H to 1O ratio). I run my oxygen bubbler outlet back out the top into the Main water feed tank to collect it for that reason. I'm not positive but i believe much of the back pressure can also be cancelled through a series of back flow check valves such as these. Hydrogen Enthusiasts Shop - Oneway Check Valve 10mm hose I say this as i am able to plug my oxygen over flow vent that i run through and exhaust out my main water feed tank will pressure a long way up when i plug it, and blow out a pressurized stream of oxygen upon release. I'll be looking into this more though, as I have had the inclination to bottle the hydrogen gas and input flow pressure is going to have to be calibrated upon in order to do so. Perhaps it helps to distribute the accumulation of pressure through a segmented chain of non-reversable chambers, so to speak. Does that make any sense? :P

hho-research recommends a check valve in place on every tube line connection, for the record.

Currently i'm assembling 2 more cells using HHO-research.com.au now machine cut gaskets that are much narrower and efficient. Most importantly they expose a much larger area of stainless plating with which to fracture water upon.

Made a video of using water to boil some water. Not very good one. going to do it again and add it later. I did it though. Seemed cannibalistic in some strange way. :P

Last edited by thedude; 06-06-2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:10 AM
regpye regpye is offline
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Punching membranes

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Originally Posted by thedude View Post
I'm guessing you would use a double sided iron template that you could clamp down on the stainless, or nylon silk sreen membrane, or rubber gasket, that would have the hole alignment for you to use a hand punch to pound through the material with a hammer? :P

If that was indeed the method you used on the stainless Tech, was there much flaring of the steel at the hole? Would be pretty easy to tap flat any way i would bet. I would love to be able to manufacture my own cells. The cost of the equipment to do so has given me pause. Good suggestion Teckno, i never thought of using that technique on stainless.

The nylon membranes are quite strong and slippery, I know that hho-research.com.au use a clamped template to punch the gaskets and they are the ones claiming the membranes to be difficult to cut. I'm certain theres a way to do it with out a laser CNC. The material has very strong tensile strength. Given its slipperiness and small thickness, its possible that the nylon could get pushed through the hole unless your punch is extremely tight. I'll ask Reg or Peter at hho-research and see if they tried a punch.

I'm going to compile a short list of questions for them so i'm not contantly contacting them repeatedly, and report back.



Your welcome Ron. Thanks for your excitement.

Ya its great Ron! I've been striving for this ability for some time now too. Its really got me thinking around the clock on the different possibilities. I have a couple tesla turbines that i might hook up as steam driven electric generators at some point. Only one of them is really big enough to do anything productive. For now my main goal is the serving the hydrogen to the 6600watt electric generator with a GEET reactor. I'm guessing the whole thing should be together by the end of the month. I'm mainly just picking up small parts and welding another adapter for my muffler now. I think another cell will go on the list before the generator will be running on hydrogen by itself. Who knows though. A real GEET reactor really reduces the fuel consumption by a whole other measure. But that is another story for later.

Reg here;
We did try punching the membrane material, and it can be done if you get some plumbers cement as used for joining PVC pipes together and place it where the hole needs to be, let it dry and then punch with a sharp wad punch with a block of wood beneath. Takes a while, not as accurate, and is OK for one off membranes. If anyone has a cell design that they are working on and need membranes, we will design the CAD file for you and supply the material and also laser cut the membranes for you. Cost works out about $6 each plus whatever the postage will be.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:18 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hi there.
I also made such a cell, but I used a crapy membrane material, it is a fabric for wind canceling. The cell works, but the efficiency is very low. Gasses are separating, but I will need to put the plates closer to each other, because now they are at 4mm distances, I will reduce this to 2mm and also increase the plate count. On a standard hho cell I can get a great current flow (20A) at already 2.5V per cell, with this cell I need loads of electrolyte and around 4V per cell for anything decent to bubble up, so smaller gaps between plates should work, also I think that membrane material is not the best thing to use. Another thing, What if I wanted to fill up a balloon with hydrogen alone? Wouldn't it be a problem? Because as the pressure build up in the hydrogen bubbler top, it will displace the water in the bubbler causing it to rise and overflow at the oxygen side. But if I close the oxygen bubbler output, the oxygen side pressure will increase causing the oxygen leech through the membrane and contaminating the pure hydrogen gas. How to solve this? Seems that one way could be to constantly monitor the pressure in poth bubblers and adjust it so that it is equal, but there must be a simpler way. Any ideas?

Heya Brother, okay we have found in Reg's cell (what the dude has )
this IN A CAR APPLICATION is working the best with a slight vacuum, this is required and also has to be a gravity feed system for the scrubber, what application are you thinking of, for car , hating or balloon only for STORAGE?

Hmm okay for balloon maybe we would need a little vacuum for this h mm, maybe ill try and use Reg's cell for this too try Bills or Reg's membrane bro, this is well tested

Ash
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:24 AM
regpye regpye is offline
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I'm going to likely continue to purchase my cell materials from hho-research.com.au for now , simply because they are not asking for undo service fees. If you look on their site, you'll see the prices are not unfair. I'm really not sure why they advertise "no international sales". I wouldn't be reluctant to contact them to try and order if your so inclined. As long as they will help me, I want to deal with them if possible. They've given me a fair shake and were helpful when i was having trouble.
The reason for not supplying overseas at this time is simply that we are overwhelmed with orders locally.
Overseas orders take more time and have had their problems for us with orders being cancelled after making and building due to the high cost of freight. We cannot do anything about the freight costs, and if anyone wants to purchase overseas from Australia, we will supply as long as they realise the freight costs.
We are not able to calculate the costs until the order has been packed and taken to the Post Office, due to it being calculated by destination, weight and size.
We have orders or requests coming from all corners of the World everyday, we simply cannot keep up the supply. Serious purchasers we will attend too, and anyone that has purchased our CD will automatically be looked after.

I hope everyone can understand our situation and realize the reason for our reluctance for overseas sales now. We will always try to help anyone that contacts us as we have done in the past.
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Old 06-02-2011, 03:16 AM
regpye regpye is offline
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After 6 years of deep research we have found that the wider gap on the plates works much better, particularly for the separator cell designs. If the plates are too close you will get breaching of the gases, over heating of the cell and a waste of energy.
We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option. Also we are using NaOH, 1 teaspoon per litre of distilled water and running 12V at 15 amps for best results. You can see the results at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories website. There are more than 50 videos that show all you really need to know.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:06 AM
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heya Reg! Welcome to these forums.

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Originally Posted by regpye View Post
After 6 years of deep research we have found that the wider gap on the plates works much better, particularly for the separator cell designs. If the plates are too close you will get breaching of the gases, over heating of the cell and a waste of energy.
We are using 6mm between the plates (3mm gaskets) we tried 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm but found that 3mm was the best option. Also we are using NaOH, 1 teaspoon per litre of distilled water and running 12V at 15 amps for best results. You can see the results at HHO Fuel Cells & Accessories website. There are more than 50 videos that show all you really need to know.

Right on Reg. Welcome to these forums. It sure is great to have you here. Thanks.

As per our earlier conversation about the membranes...
From Reg.
"Many people have copied my system and made separator cells, but all have run into a problem with the membranes.
The membranes are made from a mono filament polyester mesh, 165 stands per cm.
What most people are using is cheap RipStop as bought at the clothing store. This material is multi strand and cannot ever be tightly stretched no matter what anyone says, we have tested it and it fails after a short time.
Only genuine membranes will work effectively using the correct material. Another point is, the membranes are made 2mm smaller than the gaskets all-round, that is 4mm less across the width and length. The reason for this is to allow the gaskets to seal against each other, because if the membrane is to the outside of the gaskets, weeping or even leaking will happen.
The membrane material that we offer is used in the silk screen printing trade, mono filament, polyester and made in Germany. It is more expensive than RipStop which is multi strand, made of nylon and not suitable for membranes.
For people that want to make their own design cell I have a membrane cutting service that includes the CAD file layout, supply of material and the laser cutting. Cutting by hand is very hard if not impossible to do accurately."

Once again. So glad to have you here to share.

L&L
TheDude
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  #29  
Old 06-05-2011, 10:26 PM
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thedude thedude is offline
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Water Boiling Water Video

Made a fun video of using water to boil some water as promised. Used time lapse to show the whole process. Wanted to do a bigger volume, but while wanting to record visual of the glass container was sacrificing efficiency.

Just for fun Water Boiling Water video by TheDude

Last edited by thedude; 06-05-2011 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:42 PM
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SuperCaviTationIstic SuperCaviTationIstic is offline
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@thedude

have you tried making a cookie-cutter of the shape you want to cut out of the mesh, heating it up, and melting thought the polyester fabric?
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