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Water Fuel This forum is for discussion on any water fuel topic dealing with electrolysis, Stanley Meyer, hho, Brown's Gas, Puharich, etc...

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  #1  
Old 02-07-2011, 07:05 PM
bugler bugler is offline
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Discussion. Best way to use heat from HHO to generate electricity

Hello,
I am studying the different aproaches to generate electricity by burning HHO. My aim is to get 3-5kw.

First I would like to know your opinion on this idea in general terms. Is it a good idea to burn HHO to generate electricity.

If so I have been researching alternatives.

Using compresor-turbine. It doesn't seem to be commercial small devices.

The same goes for stirling engines.
there are plans out there to build sitrling engines but I don't have the skills.

No commercial Tesla turbines either which should be very cheap to manufacture. Are they good at all?

What do you think?
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2011, 10:17 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugler View Post
Hello,
I am studying the different aproaches to generate electricity by burning HHO. My aim is to get 3-5kw.

First I would like to know your opinion on this idea in general terms. Is it a good idea to burn HHO to generate electricity.

If so I have been researching alternatives.

Using compresor-turbine. It doesn't seem to be commercial small devices.

The same goes for stirling engines.
there are plans out there to build sitrling engines but I don't have the skills.

No commercial Tesla turbines either which should be very cheap to manufacture. Are they good at all?

What do you think?
The Tesla turbines are great and very efficient. Once you have produced an adjustable flame you can make a burner. With that you add some thermo electric modules. You will need a lot of money to get that much energy out of such a device.

You could also use the HHO to power a fuel cell again very costly.

And perhaps you could boil water and make steam to turn a turbine.


-Altrez
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:21 PM
Cherryman Cherryman is offline
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I would say make a heat powered engine.

If you ever run out of HHO you could use it with solar (Fresnel, parabolic mirror) or wood fire, or any other heat-source.

Even if you run out of electrical equipment, you would still have engine power to rotate, shake, drill.. or other mechanical work'. Nothing needed but heat.

I would prefer a Stirling, there is some real progress. Commercial units are pricey, but very very efficient. This guy can charge his cell phone with candles
YouTube - Small DIY Stirling engine charges cell phone

It seems flexible membranes , make things easier, Steel-wool displacer makes good cylinder replacement and re-generator in one. He has other vids of his engines al well.

You might be able to scale this one up a little, invest if possible in precision and good (magnetic) bearings.

The problem with Stirling engines and Tesla turbines is torque.

Steam would be a better thing for more torque, but it needs water as well.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:20 PM
bugler bugler is offline
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Originally Posted by Cherryman View Post
I would say make a heat powered engine.

I would prefer a Stirling, there is some real progress. Commercial units are pricey, but very very efficient.
How could I make an engine?

I haven't found commercial stirling engines. do you know of a website?

Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:26 PM
7imix 7imix is offline
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Awesome, just the other day I was thinking about driving a stirling engine by burning hho... I would be interested in building a homemade stirling engine. I have some plans for a simple one out of an old Make magazine but I don't know if it is very good. I will dig it out.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:59 PM
bugler bugler is offline
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Originally Posted by wolf234 View Post
Parabolic mirror is a good idea to HHO gas I have tried several ways to produce a well-cleaned plate vyvyjača a small stream with periodic polarty exchanged for 15 days boards are cleaned and more space. HHO can be blended into propane and butane to raise his energy level that showed the way Mike Tutanka and it seems to me also very interesting
I don't understand. Parabolic mirror sounds like an alternative to HHO.
Can you post info on Mike Tutanka?

Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:17 PM
Cherryman Cherryman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugler View Post
How could I make an engine?

I haven't found commercial stirling engines. do you know of a website?

Thanks.
There arent many.

This company sell a ready made solution, but expensive:

WhisperGenTM heat and power systems



To Build it yourself i do not know, best thing to do is to follow some free you-tube tutorial, some research, as there are about 4 main different kinds of Stirling engines, (Alpha, beta, gamma, And Y , not sure) I have no clue what configuration would be best. build a small one to get a taste of the concept, then decide if you think its possible.

There are some tuts around, at the end of this one you see some pics of the parts, very simple:

YouTube - Soda can Stirling engine - 860 rpm

It would be a fun project, but to get actual work done, the tolerances and friction should be minimized.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:22 PM
ZeroMassInertia ZeroMassInertia is offline
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Most conversion devices have low efficiencies, if the goal is to get a good working device
You would have to do some extraordinary development
This idea of hoh to heat made me think of the stove top circulation fans that employ the seebeck effect
Good luck
Thermoelectric generator | Ask.com Encyclopedia
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:23 PM
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altrez altrez is offline
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You can buy them here:

Gyroscope.com - gyroscopes, educational toys and gadgets

And you can also buy Tesla Turbines

Gyroscope.com - gyroscopes, educational toys and gadgets

They have a great website.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:31 PM
Cherryman Cherryman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroMassInertia View Post
Most conversion devices have low efficiencies, if the goal is to get a good working device
You would have to do some extraordinary development
This idea of hoh to heat made me think of the stove top circulation fans that employ the seebeck effect
Good luck
Thermoelectric generator | Ask.com Encyclopedia
Then you will like this one too :

YouTube - Thermoelectric Generator TEG Power Brick

And here a stirling version,

YouTube - Stirling engine woodstove fan test
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:56 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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Hi guys,

I looked to all the info but everything is too small.

The peltier (thermoelectric) is very expensive and gives low power.

The stirling engines for sale are toys.

It seems there is nothing serious out there.

Either there is no way to make small scale of a power plant or the powers won't allow it.
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:02 AM
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altrez altrez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugler View Post
Hi guys,

I looked to all the info but everything is too small.

The peltier (thermoelectric) is very expensive and gives low power.

The stirling engines for sale are toys.

It seems there is nothing serious out there.

Either there is no way to make small scale of a power plant or the powers won't allow it.
Of course there is a way. Its just going to take hard work and money. there is no one stopping you at all. You just have to copy a simple design and then scale it up to your needs.

I would say At least 5k in parts and then labor if you have someone else do it. Or you could convert a 5kwatt propane generator to run on HHO and that can be done for under 2 grand.

-Altrez
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:15 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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HHO takes so much energy to produce, you'd be far better to just save the energy. I've been playing with it for about 4 years. If you have property and a lot of refuse organic material, make methane in a digestor and burn methane/HHO mixed in a genset. I've been experimenting with this. If you have a lot of solar, and that is why you "have HHO" (for example you have a full battery bank and now you have extra electricity) you'll want to look into seperation. Toss the O2, keep the H2. HHO is not storable. Separtive generators are vaialble and can be made, but make for D-sure there is no O2 left before you store, have it lab tested several times before attempting any pressurization and when you do pressurize it, stay below 7 psi, that way if there is any O2 left, your still safe. Have all pressurized gases in a vented bunker well away from living quarters. It takes an unbelievable volume of gas at 7 psi to make the equivalent one single 60lb propane tank, so it's dependant upon getting free serviceable propane tanks. HHO, from my experience is only good for 3 things: 1. improving mileage especially in a diesel motor 2. spot glazing pottery 3. cutting steel. It's pretty obvious why it hasn't been around much for a hundred years, it's not very practical and costs many many amps to produce. If high voltage production ala Stan Meyers comes along, that'd be another thing I am talking brute force here.

Good luck!
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:09 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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Practical HHO with common components

hey bugler,
practical HHO is quite simple, I have done this but have moved on to better things.

Don't waste your time and energy with electrolysis, the resistance of the Stainless Steel cells will cost you in energy expense. I had posted a link to the Treatsie on Electricity and Magnetism but most folks are comfotable with the speculations of mainstream knowledge.

Obtain a Water Atomizer, they are cheap and everywhere. These are piezoelectric transducers that will atomize large volume of water with economical energy expense.

Obtain a small generator to learn on, you can get a 6 kw/hr electric start Champion genset from costco for $500 or so. Swap out the spark plug, put on a Diamond/Splitfire or high performance spark plug from autopart store.

Construct a chamber to house your Atomizer, with small fan to evacuate fog into air intake. Many ways to skin this cat, easy duck soup. Obtain some crystalline zinc oxide or nano crystals is super good and put it in wettable envelope, like PEM cells. It will liberate water with piezoelectrochemical effect. You can also try chemalloy like alloys such a Zamak powder etc.

Start engine with regular gasoline, then switch over to water injecion. It will run good and you can improve upon it. This is the same thing that Daniel Dingle was doing. If you can make plasma spark plug, that will work much better.

Hydrogen can be liberated from water very easily with milliamps of current at the right resonance.

Get this running and you'll get 5kw electricity for under $1k and the cost of maintenance.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:13 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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fogger source

oops, the atomizer is commonly called pond fogger etc, some have several cells and puts out several lpm and cost $100 on ebay etc.

An electrolysis cell to produce hydrogen from water will always consume more energy than you would get by burning the hydrogen. The zinc crystals vibrates upon ultrasonic vibration generating it's own electricity and aiding in splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen. This makes the gas mixture richly combustible and the atomize water will keep your generator running cooler with greater power generation. This can also be ported for motive use.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:58 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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Originally Posted by powerme View Post
hey bugler,
practical HHO is quite simple, I have done this but have moved on to better things.
thanks for the information.

For what I have read this is apparently the only real way to get free electricity.

Can you tell us what better things you are doing now?

A diesel engine is too noisy so this is not a solution for a flat. It could be used in an industrial plant to sell electricity.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:08 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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Originally Posted by bugler View Post
thanks for the information.

For what I have read this is apparently the only real way to get free electricity.

Can you tell us what better things you are doing now?

A diesel engine is too noisy so this is not a solution for a flat. It could be used in an industrial plant to sell electricity.
lol, seriously very good things.

get the ball rolling, I will tell more when the state is appropriate.

the zinc oxide crystals can be home grown from zinc oxide powder, easy to make or your can just buy. I had put them in an PEM cell and put inside the atomizing vessel.

have fun.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerme View Post
lol, seriously very good things.

get the ball rolling, I will tell more when the state is appropriate.

the zinc oxide crystals can be home grown from zinc oxide powder, easy to make or your can just buy. I had put them in an PEM cell and put inside the atomizing vessel.

have fun.
I think if I am not mistaken please correct me if I am. That you can use these:

Amazon.com: Zincite Crystal Clusters Mixed Sizes (Mostly 3/8" - 1") - 3pcs.: Everything Else

All you do is crush them slightly and add to a tea bag. you then take say 5 tea bags full and put them in the water with the ultrasonic generator.

Ultrasonic Mist Maker Fogger Water Fountain Pond 12 LED

At that point the crystals should vibrate and cause the water to make very small amounts of hho. Once you feed this to the plasma spark plug.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...arkplug-1.html

You get a huge amount of energy.

Is that right?
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:51 AM
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FRC FRC is offline
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Halloween Fogger

Would the Halloween Fogger work ? I already have "The Fog Machine" from
Wal Mart. Bought it to use for something else.

FRC
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:10 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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home grown crystals

Quote:
Originally Posted by altrez View Post
I think if I am not mistaken please correct me if I am. That you can use these:

Amazon.com: Zincite Crystal Clusters Mixed Sizes (Mostly 3/8" - 1") - 3pcs.: Everything Else

All you do is crush them slightly and add to a tea bag. you then take say 5 tea bags full and put them in the water with the ultrasonic generator.

Ultrasonic Mist Maker Fogger Water Fountain Pond 12 LED

At that point the crystals should vibrate and cause the water to make very small amounts of hho. Once you feed this to the plasma spark plug.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...arkplug-1.html

You get a huge amount of energy.

Is that right?
Zinc oxide crystals are synthetic and made from oxidized zinc . It is tetrahedral structures and have polar Zn-O bonds whis is ionic and highly piezoelectric.

The natural zincinite that you mentioned also contains magnesium, you can powder some and grow some crystal and try it out. The cheap transducer that I used also contains Mn in it's alloy. You need a durable envelope that will withstand the vibration, tyvek envelope might work, has to be wettable by water.

When water is atomized with pond fogger, it is easily dissociated into HHO by the crystals. The gas mixture is rich in HHO, I don't know the H content but it is highly combustible.

I got the idea after watching Dingles youtube video. You can clearly see the fog rising so I made the same cell out of an old battery case and it works.

Funningly, the Taiwanaese that sued him, some close by firms now have thin film zinc oxide crystals for electrical power generation. Nano is such a moronic term, one can create the sme material at home with simple electrolysis.

The spark plug is the modified Krupler Iridium alloy plug running on original OEM generator coils.

This is a practial and robust low cost approach to HHO electrical power without the need for electrolyte and expensive components.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:27 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Would the Halloween Fogger work ? I already have "The Fog Machine" from
Wal Mart. Bought it to use for something else.

FRC
yes, it's the same machine, you don't need LED, just the fogger. Walmart machines have small 1 cm transducer. They are simply ultrasonic transducer mounted on ceramic plate and powered by pulsed DC. You can buy just the transducers from china, I got 5 cm discs for $3 each shipping included for a lot of 10.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:38 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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injection kits

you can buy ready made kits online for injecting atomized water into a car. you can also buy a large fogger to run your car off atomize water HHO. The machines comes with AC transformers but can be modified to run straight off the car or generator dc power.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:53 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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hey FRC, why not try your fogger with a small engine. there are many forum out there for growing crystals and you can also buy grown crystals from many sources online.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:54 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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source for components

YouTube - Copy of Krupa's Firestorm spark plug .
Krupa Spark plug
howtomakeplasmaplugs
replication Instructable.
ask around your area, drag racers and custom choppers can make these of may have some for sale.


Ultrasonic Water Fogger-The Mist Maker
K006 is the transducer, there machines are bit too $$$ but they ship fast. buy em cheap from aliexpress or taobao, delivery takes 1 week.


zinc oxide is $5/ lb from ebay. ammonium hydroxide is $15 per bottle.
there are many ways to grow crystals with simple home methods. Mix, freeze, then pour on ppetri dish and leave alone to grow crystals.
complete paper on ZnO nano crystals.
nathan.instras.com/documentDB/paper-243.pdf
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:51 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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Originally Posted by powerme View Post
. there are many forum out there for growing crystals and you can also buy grown crystals from many sources online.
I am lost. What about crystals and burning HHO?
I don't understand either the relation of the video with the sparkplug.
Thakns.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:08 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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simple principals

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Originally Posted by bugler View Post
I am lost. What about crystals and burning HHO?
I don't understand either the relation of the video with the sparkplug.
Thakns.
ok, this is simple.

you want to generate electricity say 5kw/hr for electrical needs?
Fine, it is simple to do so.

How can you do it for Free?.
Not exactly free, but close.

How so?.
With off the shelf components.

A gas electrical generator fitted with high performance spark plug that will produce larger amount of spark to ignite the gaseous mixture of atomized water with HHO.

The video shows how a sphere produces about 10 times more spark that a regular spark plug, and the sparks are spread out on the entire surface, not just in the centre as with regular plugs.

How do you make fuel from water?.
By atomizing it with a transducer. This breaks water into fine small molecules of seperated but still bonded Hydrogen and Oxygen . The fog produces is light as oxygen and will float as water does not. And because the molecules are smaller, coupling the crystals to the already produced field of ultrasonicwaves will set them into vibration, creating it's own electricity which has a piezo electrochemical effect of splitting water molecules into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

To make or grow crystals is easy. Mix zinc oxide with warm solution of ammonia hydroxide, stir well for 30 minutes, put in the freezer for 3 hours or so, you want to reach -0 degree C. Take out and pour onto glass vessel, cover and let sit. crystals will grow.

Thats it.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:23 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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plugs update

regular spark plug will work ok, better plugs = better combustion=more power.

Krupa plugs. will give you more power
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:38 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerme View Post

How do you make fuel from water?.
By atomizing it with a transducer. This breaks water into fine small molecules of seperated but still bonded Hydrogen and Oxygen .

The fog produces is light as oxygen and will float as water does not.
All I have read so far about HHO implies the use of electric pulses to break water into H and O. Do you mean to just use water + sparkplug without pulses?

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerme View Post
And because the molecules are smaller, coupling the crystals to the already produced field of ultrasonicwaves will set them into vibration, creating it's own electricity which has a piezo electrochemical effect of splitting water molecules into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

To make or grow crystals is easy. Mix zinc oxide with warm solution of ammonia hydroxide, stir well for 30 minutes, put in the freezer for 3 hours or so, you want to reach -0 degree C. Take out and pour onto glass vessel, cover and let sit. crystals will grow.
I am again lost. Could you explain the whole process for dummies like me? Do you have a picture or some documentation?

I am interested in this idea. I have met a guy who knows how to build things and is willing to help me (I am helping him with his exams).

Thanks.

ps: the sparkplug part is now crystal clear but the crystal part is oil dark.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:47 AM
powerme powerme is offline
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silly me

ok buddy, time for reality check.

crystals are easy to make. get a book, go to a forum. learn and make.

I'm done here. I come here mostly for entertainment and to see how the crowd are being herded.

But time is not a luxury, gotta get on other priorities.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:52 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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You talk of ultrasonicwaves but no mention how to make them and how to use them.

You talk of making and using crystals but no explanation how to use them, in which amount, etc.

What could I do with this incomplete information?
Take your time but please sometime give me the complete view (if possible with a diagram).
Thanks.
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