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Water Fuel This forum is for discussion on any water fuel topic dealing with electrolysis, Stanley Meyer, hho, Brown's Gas, Puharich, etc...

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  #31  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:11 PM
conradphd conradphd is offline
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
You did note I was quoting, right?
@lamare

I wonder if this could imply a connection/observation that in reality is similar ot the same as Dr. Koontz and his Theory of negative mass particles.

A full credentialed and highly qualified Physicist Web Site of Dr. Robert W. Koontz* www.DoctorKoontz.com
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  #32  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:51 PM
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A while ago I bought a book from “The water car museum” which arrived with a DVD Welcome to the Kentucky Water Fuel Museum! on that DVD amongst other things was quite a long interview with Bob Boyce. In which he describes how his Interest in WFCs started and developed. Bob raced boats and initially converted to bottled hydrogen as the fuel.” If it’s good enough for space rockets it’s got to be good for my boat”
It was of course the power to weight ratio and the power available that Bob was interested in and not the economics at this stage. However he soon decided to start trying to generate hydro/oxy on board his racing boat to reduce the weight constraints and fitted a large alternator to help in that regard.
Bob was using straight DC electrolysis off his alternator diode pack and getting reasonable results. Bob also had a clear bubbler fitted and so he could actually see his gas production and he noticed that at a certain engine speed (alternator revs) the efficiency of the gas production went up astronomically.
Far above Faraday, Being no mean hand at electronics Bob investigated the waveform coming out of his alternator and discovered that by a lucky accident one of the Diodes had gone short circuit in his diode pack and at a certain frequency this huge gain in gas production occurred, presumably because of the interaction of these two frequencies. It of course didn’t take Bob to long to duplicate the mechanically produced waveform of his alternator with an electronic (adjustable) equivalent
Bob stands as one of the giants in the WFC field and has suffered greatly because of his refusal to kow tow.
However his accidental variable waveform generation certainly reinforces your observations in part one of your paper. Riveting stuff Michael!!
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  #33  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:01 PM
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A while ago I bought a book from “The water car museum” which arrived with a DVD Welcome to the Kentucky Water Fuel Museum! on that DVD amongst other things was quite a long interview with Bob Boyce. In which he describes how his Interest in WFCs started and developed. Bob raced boats and initially converted to bottled hydrogen as the fuel.” If it’s good enough for space rockets it’s got to be good for my boat”
Bob Boyce plans are available here:

http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_B...r_Plans/d9.pdf
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:17 PM
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Suggestion

Mike is a very serious fellow indeed and if he says and ace is an ace and a spade is a spade, I think we should trust him on that and accept the information as good information. So, my suggestion is that we try to ascertain how we can best utilize the information he provided and achieve some outstanding results. We want him to continue to share with us, so why would be want to risk saying things that might piss him off? Thanks!!
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  #35  
Old 09-21-2010, 04:13 PM
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Where do we start?

If we want to replicate this process , where do we start?
Will we use something like a AM double side band transmitter, which I think is heterodyning?
Mike suggested VHF and UHF which is in the megahertz range. TV is AM modulation.
He talks about 10W , which is not a huge transmitter.
He used the example of 100khz and 300khz which is more in the medium frequency range, but it was probably only to explain the principle.
Once we know for sure what freq. to use we could google some AM double sideband transmitter circuits. I have got old radio engineering books that I never really understood. I could have a look in there.
Then also find some wavelength formulas and work out the quarter wave lengths to get the tube lengths.
Any thoughts and ideas on this?
This was the very first explanation I found on google
SPECTRUM ANALYSIS
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  #36  
Old 09-21-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrah Day View Post
Anybody feel brave enough to even attempt to explain what 'HARD' and 'SOFT' electrons are?

Electrons being disintegrated, Lamare?
It can't be explained in one post, you have to read his book on this stuff. I read it and shared with many and it turned out to be one of the most fascinating and straight forward book that I have ever read on how the universe works in micro and macro scale. It also covers the topic on what is wron with the current scientific understanding of universe. So don't say it is nonsence if you even haven't read the book. You don't even need to buy the book, you can get it here in pdf:
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:08 PM
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Frequencies

@All

I have posted the frequencies, the 100 and 300Khz was just for the easy maths example, look at posts further below.

HF Antenna Cookbook

Here I have posted a link so as you can see what is a balun and I think you will see a resemblance to both Meyer and Puharich, the latter being the most informative.

You have to think what Puharich was doing when he stumbled on this.

What you have to remember is that you must not have a miss match between transmitter and antenna, so in this case you have to fudge it as in this configuration of a water cell the goal posts move. With Puharich he used a sensing resistor to measure accross that resistor (1 ohm)the VSWR.

A vertical antenna can be made to be bigger than it looks by loading with a coil, rings a bell? another answer for Farraday

Mike
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  #38  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:21 PM
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Just one other point, and I do not want to cause any problem with the good Doc. but look at some of his water splitting videos again. I don't think you could put a high power amplifier on the sec, but you sure can put a 100watt linier amp on what I have explained, the immagination of that!!!!!!!!

Mike
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:43 PM
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what frequencies to use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
150mhz would be a good start for the VHF band, 120Mhz and 720Mhz have been used succesfully.

Your tubes can be tuned to a virtual length with your coils, that is one reason they are their
Mike spells out that 120mhz and 720mhz works.
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:46 PM
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Thank you -- Its taken as read that everyone on this forum would have PJK somewhere on their HD
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  #41  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:57 PM
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all the files so far

Here is a zip file:
http://www.feelthevibe.com/free_ener...osplitting.zip

Has Mike's doc, a link he posted and a pdf of the antenna cookbook
he linked to.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Just one other point, and I do not want to cause any problem with the good Doc. but look at some of his water splitting videos again. I don't think you could put a high power amplifier on the sec, but you sure can put a 100watt linier amp on what I have explained, the immagination of that!!!!!!!!

Mike
@Michael John Nunnerley

No problem from my end, although to do it properly you should add a stage between the Exciter and the Linear in order to match the 50ohm input impedance and depending on the linear you might have to add a bit of gain to be sure you get to the 2-5W you would need for the input.

If anyone tries this, two cautions; your going to mess with the aircraft radio band for sure and big problems for you here if the devices are not shields properly.

Don't go and try to connect this arrangement to any damn Tesla coils, you will never forgive yourself for doing that.
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  #43  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:56 PM
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Thanks

Jetijs,

Thanks for the book!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
It can't be explained in one post, you have to read his book on this stuff. I read it and shared with many and it turned out to be one of the most fascinating and straight forward book that I have ever read on how the universe works in micro and macro scale. It also covers the topic on what is wron with the current scientific understanding of universe. So don't say it is nonsence if you even haven't read the book. You don't even need to buy the book, you can get it here in pdf:
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  #44  
Old 09-21-2010, 09:00 PM
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DrStiffler

Good to see you here DrStiffler!!
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  #45  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
It can't be explained in one post, you have to read his book on this stuff. I read it and shared with many and it turned out to be one of the most fascinating and straight forward book that I have ever read on how the universe works in micro and macro scale. It also covers the topic on what is wron with the current scientific understanding of universe. So don't say it is nonsence if you even haven't read the book. You don't even need to buy the book, you can get it here in pdf:
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This is what I get when I click the link:

Error

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to upload the file again or first log in to his/her Premium Account and then upload the file again. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.

I hope this helps.
If it is the Patrick Kelly book, I have it, but because of the error page I cannot know.

jeanna
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  #46  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:45 AM
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Ultimate Reality by Joseph H. Cater

Jeanna,

The book is not a Patrick Kelly book. It's entitled, "Ultimate Reality" by Joseph H. Cater.
It's actually a very heavy fantastic book which you do need.

Regards,
Slovenia



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanna View Post
This is what I get when I click the link:

Error

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to upload the file again or first log in to his/her Premium Account and then upload the file again. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.

I hope this helps.
If it is the Patrick Kelly book, I have it, but because of the error page I cannot know.

jeanna
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:57 AM
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Where do we start?

Nvisser & others,

I think we should perform a Meyer replication in as expedient a fashion as possible using just the most basic bare bones apparatus to get a good proof of concept device only. In other words just one or two tube set cell to start with. When we determine how to properly tune this arrangement and get a working prototype, we can build the cell as large and complicate as we like. In the mean time I think we need to utilize the KISS principle and keep the system as simple as possible.

I have a good acquaintance who has expended a lot of money working on the Meyer cell system over the past several years. I'm pretty sure this fellow will help us. He'd like to get his cells working too and he has many of them. So, I'll contact him and see what can be done. I'm sure I can get him to offer some advise on where we should start.

I don't want to trouble Michael Nunnerley to much for details which we can get somewhere else.

Best Regards,
Slovenia

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  #48  
Old 09-22-2010, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Here I have posted a link so as you can see what is a balun and I think you will see a resemblance to both Meyer and Puharich, the latter being the most informative.

You have to think what Puharich was doing when he stumbled on this.

What you have to remember is that you must not have a miss match between transmitter and antenna, so in this case you have to fudge it as in this configuration of a water cell the goal posts move. With Puharich he used a sensing resistor to measure accross that resistor (1 ohm)the VSWR.

A vertical antenna can be made to be bigger than it looks by loading with a coil, rings a bell? another answer for Farraday

Mike
Posted the book on my site too: http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Mat...naCookbook.pdf

Puharich used the sensing resistor to get a feedback signal to his modulator. I have posted the schematics of his modulator here:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

What is very interesting about Puharich, is his wave form:



He shows that at some point the wave is being rectified. At first, I thought he was doing this in his signal generator, so before his amplifier. Turns out that his WFC acts like a rectifier, pretty much as they constructed rectifiers in the old days:
Borax or Baking Soda Rectifier and the glow.

This rectification happens in/across the dielectric layer that is being formed on the surface of the metal of the tubes, which is very similar to what is being done in the construction of electrolytic capacitors (See Baking Soda Variable Electrolytic Capacitor.). So, what you have with these layers is basically capacitors, which can be considered to be shortcuts at HF. So, if Puharichs signals were HF, they would not be rectified by the WFC.


Here is Puharichs block schematic:

As you can see, coils L1 and L2 are driven out of phase from the transformer, with high voltage, zero current. So, these are to be considered open terminals of two resonating coils.

So, the question is: at what frequency are these coils resonating? The carrier wave frequency, or at the "modulation" frequency?

This is his modulator, which is fed by the signal from his "resonance sensing resistor":


The circuit around transistor 71 is virtually the same as Slayers modulator, which is a derivative of Dr. Stifflers. So, this modulator is where the heterodyning takes place, and the signal going in there is nothing but a feedback of what L1 and L2 are doing.

To me, it is pretty clear that L1 and L2 are resonating at relatively low frequencies, as Puharich says himself:
Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Elecrolysis >

Quote:
This Thermodynamic Device is based on a new discovery --- the efficient electrolytic fission of water into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas by the use of low frequency alternating currents as opposed to the conventual use of direct current, or ultra-high frequency current today. Such gas production from water by electrolytic fission approaches 100% efficiency under laboratory conditions and measurements.
Quote:
This electronic device has a complex alternating current output consisting of an audio frequency (range 20 to 200 Hz) amplitude modulation of a carrier wave (range: 200 to 100,000 Hz).
So, if L1 and L2 are such that they are resonating somewhere below 10 KHz, then they should choke all HF you feed in there, so that won't reach your water, unless these are fed trough the coils trough the parasite capacitance of the windings.

Now I don't mean to say you can't do anything with HF, but IMHO, Puharich was not driving his WFC using HF, and that's what he said too.

Last edited by lamare; 09-22-2010 at 07:59 AM.
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  #49  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DrStiffler View Post
@Michael John Nunnerley

No problem from my end, although to do it properly you should add a stage between the Exciter and the Linear in order to match the 50ohm input impedance and depending on the linear you might have to add a bit of gain to be sure you get to the 2-5W you would need for the input.

If anyone tries this, two cautions; your going to mess with the aircraft radio band for sure and big problems for you here if the devices are not shields properly.

Don't go and try to connect this arrangement to any damn Tesla coils, you will never forgive yourself for doing that.
Thank you Dr. Stiffler

You are correct, when using linear amplifiers on all points and I can't stress the importance of shielding as I and the Doc have pointed out. Your cell anenna setup has to have a faraday cage well grounded and use good quality coax feed line and as I have said also the VSWR has to be correct or your power will reflect back into your circuit, especially using higher power outputs you will for sure blow your amp.

If anybody builds this, and I hope they do, just start with low power output, you can up the power later. Linear amps at UHF are not cheap, at VHF not too bad, but start at low power first.

The antenna does not have to be a tube set, you can use two separate antennas in parallel plane to one another at a specific distance "within the quarter wave length", but I can go into that later.

The antennas can be quarter wave length and bent in a circle and end fed so as to fit inside a container. Think big for the container, 5gal would be good and should be shielded and grounded, "faraday cage". You can use aluminium or copper for the antennas if you vapour feed the water into the cell, which is the best way "greater surface area of water molecule for impact".

My disclaimer holds on all that I post in this Forum and people will do this at their own risk, MIB's included.

Mike
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia View Post
Jetijs,

Thanks for the book!!

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Slovenia was kind enough to send me a copy of the book too. Thanks!

I have uploaded it to my website, http://www.tuks.nl/, but not on any of the usual places, because this book is copyrighted pretty recently. So, you can find it if you go to the subdirectory called cache7471. It will be there for some time. Please don't spread any direct links to that directory on the net, cause if it turns up on search engines, I will have to remove it.

I also uploaded a new pdf version of my pw article, for those interested.

Update:

Just scooped a bit into the book. Looks like the fellow has a lot of interesting stuff to say. Thanks Jetijs for this book!

Also posted this here:
The ultimate secret of free energy: Split the postive AND the negative

If you want to discuss this book, please go over to that thread, because otherwise this thread goes to much off-topic.

Last edited by lamare; 09-22-2010 at 08:23 PM.
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  #51  
Old 09-22-2010, 12:32 PM
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PDF Summary of all of Mike's Info to date

I have attached a pdf summary of all of Mike's information to date. I will continue to update it as new information is made available.

Updated file in a later post.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:47 PM
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I have attached a pdf summary of all of Mike's information to date. I will continue to update it as new information is made available.
All genius and all cryptics.. and peoples that read your words as an bible..
I suggest at all to stop your minds for an moment and recover you ideas.
Tesla, Moray, Gray some years ago they did not have a great technology available. They had little things on hand. You don't need complicated circuits or use impossible frequencies.. You need to study an little and think ONLY with your mind. HF/HV are connected togheter and you need to adjust these to your antenna. Radiant Energy is an RADIATION and isn't ONLY an spyke! Probably Gray inside dipole tube have nitrogen or other gas that transform in atomic for obtain right radiation and use an irradiated "crystal" for obtain an great amount of electricity. You need more than one capacitor, one coil and one transformer for reach success.
What suggest to you that?? Spark-gap transmitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that?? Crystal radio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

System present in that video isn't more similat to Tesla spark gap transmitter?? YouTube - Tesla Radiant Energy

You must only follow your brain for obtain results !!
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:24 PM
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Thanks for the links

Hi Tutanka,

I don't have your electrical aptitude, so I wish you would be much clearer with regard to your solutions to our problems. Thanks for the links.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Quote:
Originally Posted by tutanka View Post
All genius and all cryptics.. and peoples that read your words as an bible..
I suggest at all to stop your minds for an moment and recover you ideas.
Tesla, Moray, Gray some years ago they did not have a great technology available. They had little things on hand. You don't need complicated circuits or use impossible frequencies.. You need to study an little and think ONLY with your mind. HF/HV are connected togheter and you need to adjust these to your antenna. Radiant Energy is an RADIATION and isn't ONLY an spyke! Probably Gray inside dipole tube have nitrogen or other gas that transform in atomic for obtain right radiation and use an irradiated "crystal" for obtain an great amount of electricity. You need more than one capacitor, one coil and one transformer for reach success.
What suggest to you that?? Spark-gap transmitter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that?? Crystal radio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You must only follow your brain for obtain results !!
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:54 PM
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RF energy

Thanks Mike for your very interesting info. For those who may be thinking RF energy might not work for electrolysis of water I have some information for you. For several years it was thought the only way to energize the gases for an industrial CO2 laser was to use a spark source inside the laser gas. This caused impurities to be created which affected the reliability of the laser operation. A German company by the name of Trumph decided to try energizing the gases by applying a RF field to the gases from the outside of the laser tube. They used metal plates on the outside of the laser tube and applied high frequency RF to the plates. They were successful in creating a much improved laser. Conventional wisdom had always said this idea wouldn't work, but it did! So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that what Mike is telling us is the real deal. Just thought I would add some more info to think over.

Carroll
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:04 PM
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Hi Tutanka,

I don't have your electrical aptitude, so I wish you would be much clearer with regard to your solutions to our problems. Thanks for the links.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
Hi Slovenia,

First of all you need to understand what is the right way without any confusion.
I have my theory about Tesla and Gray .. they have similar projects.. Tesla have found radiant energy and want create an separated transmitter/receiver. Gray have understand how the Tesla transmitter/receiver work and want created an "all in one system".

They use similar system for create artificial radiant energy, in all case high voltage and limited high frequency are used..

I have posted transmitter used from Tesla and the "natural" receiver based on galena. Galena is strange crystal that have special reaction, isn't only an natural AM diode receiver but also react to the alpha particles of radiant energy releasing electrons.

Have a property to convert DIRECTLY the radiation into electrical current
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:13 PM
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Thanks for your reply

Hi Tutanka,

Thanks for your reply. I need to study this.

Best Regards,
Slovenia


Quote:
Originally Posted by tutanka View Post
Hi Slovenia,

First of all you need to understand what is the right way without any confusion.
I have my theory about Tesla and Gray .. they have similar projects.. Tesla have found radiant energy and want create an separated transmitter/receiver. Gray have understand how the Tesla transmitter/receiver work and want created an "all in one system".

They use similar system for create artificial radiant energy, in all case high voltage and limited high frequency are used..

I have posted transmitter used from Tesla and the "natural" receiver based on galena. Galena is strange crystal that have special reaction, isn't only an natural AM diode receiver but also react to the alpha particles of radiant energy releasing electrons.

Have a property to convert DIRECTLY the radiation into electrical current
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:08 PM
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Tubes are not needed

You do not need to use tubes, you can use two end fed antennas and bent into a circle so as to fit inside your WFC. Here are the sizes:-

VHF antenna @120mhz

640mm long "quarter wave length" bent into a circle.

UHF antenna @720mhz

213mm long "half wave length" bent into a circle.

Each antenna can be made of 1/4" copper tube, in one end fit and solder an RF female connector "as used in CB or amature radio". If laid flat on a table, bend up vertical the connection end so as the male plug and feed cable can be connected easily. There should be a space between the two ends of the antenna of about 28mm. This should give you a diameter on the VHF of about 205mm and the UHF 75mm.

The UHF is placed in the center of the VHF antenna and a plastic suport has to be made to hold them in this position and so as they can be suported in a horizontal plane inside the WFC.

This is less complicated than using tubes within tubes and is designed for cold vapour and not immersed in water. This will give better gas production, as said before a larger H2O molecular surface area. A standard humidity vapouriser can be used in the bottom of the cell to produce the vapour.

This is not the complicated part, but the electronics is and has to be right.

Mike
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:28 AM
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Hi Mike
This method sounds easy to build.
I got a question.
The coax cables from the transmitter must normally be terminated into a 50 Ohm antenna
If we only connect the cable to a bnc connector and only connect the centre to the copper pipe antenna and the screen of the coax stays unterminated as there is no ground plain will it not be a mismatch?
Or will we connect the other side of the copper circle to the screen like a TV dipole with its impedance matching circuit?
It also looks like each antenna will be driven by a separate transmitter with its own frequency.
I was under the impression that the transmitter will give a double side band, amplitude modulated signal.
Will it be possible to post some sort of a block diagram just to make everything clear and rule out some confusion. Then it will be easier to start from there and develop and build all the parts.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Hi Mike
This method sounds easy to build.
I got a question.
The coax cables from the transmitter must normally be terminated into a 50 Ohm antenna
If we only connect the cable to a bnc connector and only connect the centre to the copper pipe antenna and the screen of the coax stays unterminated as there is no ground plain will it not be a mismatch?
Or will we connect the other side of the copper circle to the screen like a TV dipole with its impedance matching circuit?
It also looks like each antenna will be driven by a separate transmitter with its own frequency.
I was under the impression that the transmitter will give a double side band, amplitude modulated signal.
Will it be possible to post some sort of a block diagram just to make everything clear and rule out some confusion. Then it will be easier to start from there and develop and build all the parts.
Here is the block diagram, please note the container shape, seems to work better with a conical form in relation to the antenna sizes (diameter).

Mike
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Last edited by Michael John Nunnerley; 11-09-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:33 AM
Slovenia Slovenia is offline
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Thank You!!!

Love the thread Mike.
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