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  #331  
Old 10-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Vickers Vickers is offline
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Hey Mike.. Imagine how different this world be if there was a buck to be made by patenting nature. Sad but true
I like and understand what say. Micro size the process make it more efficient.
Lot of power in one drop.
Heres a heads up for the backyarders. Some car horns have a screw to adjust frequency. Mostly the older ones.
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  #332  
Old 10-28-2010, 04:18 PM
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I ordered some 85y12's today from here.
Motorola SHW5151 UHF Amplifier Module 5W 700-900MHz,New - eBay (item 150207117776 end time Nov-02-10 08:58:03 PDT)
The shipping cost is low.
They also got some very cheap VCO,s in their store so I ordered 2 of them.
Z-COMM VCO 700MHz-1200MHz, V502BMS1, MINI-14H - eBay (item 160408020880 end time Oct-22-10 18:58:07 PDT)
and
Z-COMM VCO 104MHz-176MHz, V140MC01, MINI-14S - eBay (item 160408130880 end time Oct-23-10 06:16:04 PDT)
The VHF VCO only got a output of 4.5dBm though.
It's a start at least as there won't be much funds left after my Bedini conference trip!!
Any of you guys coming?
I collected this stuff today from the post office!! Only 16 days by unregistered post to South Africa.
It is so small. The little VCO's are the size of my pinkie nail and the uhf amp ic the size of half a pinkie.
It is going to be a challenge putting this things together on a circuit board.
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  #333  
Old 10-28-2010, 04:47 PM
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be careful

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I collected this stuff today from the post office!! Only 16 days by unregistered post to South Africa.
It is so small. The little VCO's are the size of my pinkie nail and the uhf amp ic the size of half a pinkie.
It is going to be a challenge putting this things together on a circuit board.
Be careful with these, static can KILL these items, soldering is an art for these. Proper circuit board design is very important and must be doble sided with the other side as the ground

Mike
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  #334  
Old 10-28-2010, 05:03 PM
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True. I will not attempt to put it together before I did not do a lot of homework. I got all the data on it that tells how to solder and load the vco's.
I will first submit a pcb design for your approval and corrections before building this thing.
I am still waiting for the vhf amp. I think all this will only happen after the conference. So I will have a chance to talk to you first.
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  #335  
Old 10-28-2010, 06:47 PM
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Nvisser -we both there seek me out, I'm off to have a look at mike's other thread
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Last edited by Duncan; 10-28-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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  #336  
Old 10-28-2010, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
Use a Bucket? What bloody idiot suggested that? Donít go there, too weak and looks bloody awful! I refuse to post a picture of this mangled abortion!
If youíve got a heavy duty one that cows kick around or a thing like this Heavy Duty Tar Bucket - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys Ö perhaps ÖMeanwhile Iíll have to settle down and do the job properly.
Still bits arriving in dribs and drabs in the mean time and perhaps pertinent I include the link to Mr. Charles Cameronís patent. Itís a bit of a chew to get through but I include it a/ because heís operating up and around the same frequency that Mike has directed our efforts to. His description of the RF tubes like Meyer and Puharichís is vague (you canít blame these guys they hoped to make a few $s out of their efforts but thanks to Mike we now know that bit!)
And perhaps more interestingly b/ His claim to have a simplified system to separate the Hydrogen and Oxygen for consumption ON DEMAND using what seems to be an adaptation of the fracturing method Mike has enlightened us with, and so It could I suggest possibly withstand further investigation and thought. I havenít digested it all yet (its hard work for a wooden top), but I feel sure itís pertinent.
Perhaps one of the chemist types would be so kind as to enlighten me on a possible composition of component 34 Systems for the decomposition of water Doesnít the last sentence say it all?Ēan electromagnetic shield through which paramagnetic molecules can pass while diamagnetic molecules are deflected therefromĒ
Super if it works and I feel Iím on the right forum to ask!!
Hi Duncan, it would seem that item 34 is a permeable material of which the passages through the material are too small for combined water molecules to flow through, but large enough for Oxygen (or perhaps O2) to flow through from the outside in. This tube then connects with a manifold to extract the Oxygen gas. One end of the tube is closed so there is a single exit. RGP (Rigid Gas Permeable) contact lenses are an example of a material that would exhibit this characteristic. Also, you may see this:
Preparation and characterization of oxygen permeable membrane of SrFeCu0.2Ox

Hope that helps
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  #337  
Old 10-29-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
True. I will not attempt to put it together before I did not do a lot of homework. I got all the data on it that tells how to solder and load the vco's.
I will first submit a pcb design for your approval and corrections before building this thing.
I am still waiting for the vhf amp. I think all this will only happen after the conference. So I will have a chance to talk to you first.
Hi Nvisser I bought 2 Micronetics M3500-0510TR VCOs on eBay simply because they were in range and dirt cheap, Micronetics | RF Components: M3500C VCO Series I donít really intend using either as Iíve got the mini circuits equiv (which is better for me) however if youíd like one Iíll bring one to the conference for you with pleasure and gratis
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  #338  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:04 AM
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That will be cool thank you. As I will probably blew some of mine.
Have you got the Ebay link so I can see what they look like. The link you provided only shows data.
Thanks
Vissie
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  #339  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
That will be cool thank you. As I will probably blew some of mine.
Have you got the Ebay link so I can see what they look like. The link you provided only shows data.
Thanks
Vissie
RF VCO MC3500C-0510T 500-1000MHz Micronetics 1PCS NEW on eBay (end time 24-Oct-10 15:51:52 BST) about 20mm sq in fact the mm are on a download at the bottom & the pin outs save that some where you'll need it!
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Last edited by Duncan; 10-29-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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  #340  
Old 10-31-2010, 05:35 PM
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I found a PDF with a RF pre amp design that is about the same as the pre amp using the BRF93 transistor. It could give us an idea how to do the pcb.
You will notice that Rf layouts are not very neat.
http://www.carc.org.uk/pdf/Archive_014.pdf
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  #341  
Old 10-31-2010, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I found a PDF with a RF pre amp design that is about the same as the pre amp using the BRF93 transistor. It could give us an idea how to do the pcb.
You will notice that Rf layouts are not very neat.
http://www.carc.org.uk/pdf/Archive_014.pdf
Think thats rough vissie ... you aint seen nothing yet.. Having said that all the ground plane is all worked out and it could well suit our inter job Anyway for a fiver Iíve just snaffled this on eBay Broadband RF amplifier Teleste TYPE ADA 338 47-860MHZ on eBay (end time 31-Oct-10 20:20:43 GMT)
With a bit of luck it will do the matching job (if it works) the less Iíve got to get involved with UHF the better I havenít got the gear to see it! I know a man who has but Iíve got to go a lot of miles and grovelÖ
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Last edited by Duncan; 10-31-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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  #342  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:59 PM
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For those at the US conference

@ All

For those that will be at the US conference next week, I will be there with a full circuit diagram of all the electronics and an explination of the rest of the system.

I have designed a complete circuit for the RF which can be made from a circuit board and electronic components without buying VCO's etc. This circuit can also have added a PLL to maintain the exact frequencies required with their spacings.

I have decided to do this as parts do seem to be getting slim on the ground and the price going up. This involves good electronic RF technique when building but it is not that complicated and uses all parts that can be found easly.

I will at some time be available for questions on this subject.

Mike
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  #343  
Old 11-02-2010, 07:39 PM
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That is great news Mike.
I hope you could also explain how to put the vco,s , pre amps and amps together on a pcb for those who already got them.
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  #344  
Old 11-03-2010, 09:57 AM
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Sounds like youíve gone to a lot of trouble Mike Thank you!. Bits are still arriving Nice Maas PSU arrived this Morning. It looks like Which ever way we go itís a careful thoughtful procedure. Still if youíve worked out a ďbetter wayĒ then Iíd be stupid not to try and incorporate it.
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  #345  
Old 11-04-2010, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
That is great news Mike.
I hope you could also explain how to put the vco,s , pre amps and amps together on a pcb for those who already got them.
Yes I can do that as long as you bring the spec sheets with you as it seems that different people have bought different parts.

Thinking now and a little late I know, I should have put a kit together of parts so as all are the same. The problem was finding parts which were very available and at a good price and still in production which people could put together without technical ability.

This is going to change as I will put together the electronics in one box at a price which is cost of material and time of construction. The actual fuel cell may be made by another, that way the whole does not come from one person and the final assembly will be down to you, and not complicated.

This is one way of putting a product out into the market without getting problems from the powers that be. My problem is I can't put a finished product into the market place without getting clobbered in one way or other.

Mike
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  #346  
Old 11-04-2010, 05:04 PM
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Sir,
Very smart thing to put it out in Kit form!![liability issues]
The ONLY way the ultralight aircraft industry got anywhere in this country.
Put me down on your customer list!!
Chet
kremens
@gmail.com
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  #347  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Yes I can do that as long as you bring the spec sheets with you as it seems that different people have bought different parts.
Mike
Hi Mike
This is the components I ordered that I need help with the pcb layouts.

Z-COMM VCO 700MHz-1200MHz, V502BMS1, MINI-14H

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V502BMS1.pdf

Amp: Motorola SHW5151 UHF Amplifier Module 5W 700-900MHz (85Y12)

Z-COMM VCO 104MHz-176MHz, V140MC01, MINI-14S

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V140MC01.pdf

Amp: S-AV10L
I will also bring the specsheets with to the conference incase we will get a change to look at it.
Thanks
Vissie
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Last edited by nvisser; 11-06-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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  #348  
Old 11-06-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Hi Mike
This is the components I ordered that I need help with the pcb layouts.

Z-COMM VCO 700MHz-1200MHz, V502BMS1, MINI-14H

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V502BMS1.pdf

Amp: Motorola SHW5151 UHF Amplifier Module 5W 700-900MHz (85Y12)

Z-COMM VCO 104MHz-176MHz, V140MC01, MINI-14S

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V140MC01.pdf

Amp: S-AV10L
I will also bring the specsheets with to the conference incase we will get a change to look at it.
Thanks
Vissie
Thanks, look at it in the USA

Mike
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  #349  
Old 11-06-2010, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Hi Mike
This is the components I ordered that I need help with the pcb layouts.

Z-COMM VCO 700MHz-1200MHz, V502BMS1, MINI-14H

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V502BMS1.pdf

Amp: Motorola SHW5151 UHF Amplifier Module 5W 700-900MHz (85Y12)

Z-COMM VCO 104MHz-176MHz, V140MC01, MINI-14S

Datasheet: http://rfbayinc.com/Data_Sheet/VCO/V140MC01.pdf

Amp: S-AV10L
I will also bring the specsheets with to the conference incase we will get a change to look at it.
Thanks
Vissie
You may wish to review the manufacturers application notes:
Application Notes from Z-Communications, Inc.

AN-101 shows the Suggested PCB foot print and AN-102 shows the typical trace layout and loading schematic. AN-107 and AN-112 discusses soldering techniques.

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  #350  
Old 11-06-2010, 06:16 PM
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Great

Hi Harvey

a great mind as always, thanks for helping. Micro strip for these items is also very important and the trace with has to be right for 50 ohm according to each manufacturer and product, also change depending it is input or output.
In other words ALWAYS read the manufacture detail of the product

Mike
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  #351  
Old 11-06-2010, 06:28 PM
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Harvey, look at your skype messages when you have a minute

Mike
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  #352  
Old 11-06-2010, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
You may wish to review the manufacturers application notes:
Application Notes from Z-Communications, Inc.

AN-101 shows the Suggested PCB foot print and AN-102 shows the typical trace layout and loading schematic. AN-107 and AN-112 discusses soldering techniques.

Thank you Harvey. I could find AN-100/1 no where on the web.
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  #353  
Old 11-06-2010, 08:04 PM
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Thank you Harvey. I could find AN-100/1 no where on the web.
Yes, that number could mean one of four things:

1. There was an AN-100 that is now 101
2. The person typing thought they hit the backspace key after typing 100 but instead hit the slash key (/). So it should have been One zero zero backspace one, but instead became 100/1.
3. There is an AN-100 unlisted on the website that gives more general information and 100/1 means 100 and 101.
4. 100/1 is an actual complete number and is missing from their site.

So in this case the only way to be certain is to call the company and ask them if AN-100 exists and if so how can it be obtained.



EDIT:
I sent them an E-Mail - but I notice that the PDF for V502BMS1 that references that application number is not a valid part on Z-Comm's site.

The closest match to that frequency range that I could find is:
V585ME73-LF

Also the data sheet for that product does not include AN-100, but instead references directly to AN-101.
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Last edited by Harvey; 11-06-2010 at 08:32 PM.
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  #354  
Old 11-09-2010, 07:31 AM
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I received all my ordered parts.
It is difficult to believe what this small things are suppose to do!!
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Last edited by nvisser; 11-28-2010 at 12:23 PM.
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  #355  
Old 11-09-2010, 07:39 AM
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Word Back From Z-Comm

I received the following reply from Z-Comm regarding AN-100/1:

Quote:
Hello Harvey,
Thank you for your inquiry.
Our Application Note 101 is an upgraded revision of our AN-100. Please refer to this application note if the datasheet in your possession is referencing AN-100.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.
Regards,

Basilides Cruz
Applications Engineer
Z-Communications, Inc.
Tel: 858-621-2700 Ext 236
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  #356  
Old 11-09-2010, 09:44 AM
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Google missing patents

Sent that patent Radio frequency hydrogen and oxygen ... - Google Patent Search to a friend. You can go to that page but when clicking on downloading it in pdf, it is completely gone:

Google Error Not Found

The requested URL /patents/download/7378063_Radio_frequency_hydrogen_and_oxy.pdf?id=5E 6sAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2z_XZ35qewwq9TIYdz 9DqsPzxv_w&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0 was not found on this server.


Of course it is available at multiple other places but am I the only one to get that error?
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  #357  
Old 11-09-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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Sent that patent Radio frequency hydrogen and oxygen ... - Google Patent Search to a friend. You can go to that page but when clicking on downloading it in pdf, it is completely gone:

Google Error Not Found

The requested URL /patents/download/7378063_Radio_frequency_hydrogen_and_oxy.pdf?id=5E 6sAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2z_XZ35qewwq9TIYdz 9DqsPzxv_w&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0 was not found on this server.


Of course it is available at multiple other places but am I the only one to get that error?
here:

Radio frequency hydrogen and oxygen generator and method - US 7378063 B1 - IP.com
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  #358  
Old 11-09-2010, 01:02 PM
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Of course it is available at multiple other places but am I the only one to get that error?
I experience the same error you found. It must be an internal error at the specific google's servers where the downloadable PDF files are stored.

Gyula
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  #359  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:14 PM
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Both links work for me. Perhaps it was a temporary error or a routing/server issue that only affected certain areas?
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  #360  
Old 11-10-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
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I received all my ordered parts.
It is difficult to believe what this small things are suppose to do!!
Well done Vissie bits are arriving for me too,
some of which Iíll no doubt use and some in reserve, I think Mikes got a plan to lock the x6 some how so Iím prepared for changes, Zx95 1200W-S+ ZX95-200-S-+ Toshiba S-AV10L Toshiba S-AV7 2 off Micronetics M3500-0510TR VCOs (one of which Iíll bring for you), The Motorola 85Y12, the other odds and sods are Konig 5-2400 Mhz splitter and the big lump is ADA 338 47 Ė 860 Mhz 33db Broadband Linear amp specs for the Miicronetics are here http://www.micronetics.com/RF_Compon...CO/vco0510.pdf (if we end up using it) this is My motley collection so far. I think the kit form idea is great, get it into the reach of all! I would hope thatís where we are trying to get.. Harvey your doing a great job in the background there!
As for that patent, doesnít work for me at the moment somethingís changed...
starting to get ready for this trek now.... see most of you soon I hope
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