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  #421 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:00 PM
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Tutanka thank you for the pictures and sorry no disrespect intended about the coil.
Your doing a fine job sir.
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  #422 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:00 PM
Slovenia Slovenia is offline
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Nice Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by tutanka View Post
And from an photo you decide that CERAMIC BI-COIL don't work?? About the circut .. you can see with your eyes

Tutanka,

Looks pretty great to me.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
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  #423 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:22 PM
dankie dankie is offline
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Great stuff

Tutanka I hope that thing works as good as the pcb looks .

Cahoon great simple ionizer , hope you inspire much people .

I am also designing a PLL Tutanka , but since I am using low voltage , my design will use a voltage controlled resistor with direct feedback to my main oscillator .

I believe Puharich used a crude form of Mosfet as a resonant sensing resistor .
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  #424 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2010, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_cahoon View Post
My Plasmatron:

Time to test it.

Mybe connect it between the PCV Valve and Intake Manifold..

Dave
You don't intend to suppress the sparking ?
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  #425 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2010, 03:36 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
You don't intend to suppress the sparking ?
Yes it will aid the corona, If I tweak the center electrode back a bit more.
It is only arcing over once every few seconds. (exposure time 6 seconds)

Dave
Does anyone know a substitute for Corona dope? There is almost as much corona outside as inside.

Last edited by dave_cahoon : 02-24-2010 at 03:47 AM. Reason: Need Corona Dope or a common substitute for the HVDC
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Old 02-24-2010, 04:42 AM
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dielectric coating

Super Corona Dope is better than Corona Dope.

I have looked at using Plastidip for similar purposes but
maybe more messy.
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  #427 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 05:02 AM
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review

Ionization & Water Fuel Very reactive

Ionization & Water Fuel Ionization
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:34 AM
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Ionization circuit

Dave, your ionization tube is powered by an ignition coil. What kind
of frequency is it running at? Do you have a schematic Dave?

Does anyone else have similar circuits?

Is there a voltage too high?

What about frequency range?

Alex's diagram showed about 7-8kv.

I was thinking the output of a neon sign transformer
that is used to power neon tubes for cars or ignition coil
is best - other than that, maybe a sharper image ionizing
hair dryer
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  #429 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia View Post
Tutanka,

Looks pretty great to me.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
I do not see any kind of feedback inputs for this to be a PLL circuit.
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  #430 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Dave, your ionization tube is powered by an ignition coil. What kind
of frequency is it running at? Do you have a schematic Dave?

Does anyone else have similar circuits?

Is there a voltage too high?

What about frequency range?

Alex's diagram showed about 7-8kv.

I was thinking the output of a neon sign transformer
that is used to power neon tubes for cars or ignition coil
is best - other than that, maybe a sharper image ionizing
hair dryer

Aaron, I have made a simple air ionizer that works very well. I use a flyback transformer from an old crt monitor, it has a ferrite core and I wind some 5 tuns of wire on that core. Then you just build a simple 555 timer with adjustable duty cycle and pulse a gate of a MOSFET. I found that I can get the highest voltages out of this transformer at around 10Khz, I just keep reducing the 555 circuit capacity till I get the longest sparks at around 1-1.5A current draw. Works fine, I it arcs over at around 10mm and I can stretch the arc out to about 20mm. I will post a circuit later. But here is a video about this:
YouTube - Making ionized air and ion wind

Also you will want to put a 5-10 MOhm resistor in series with the HV output to suppress arcing.
Also I think the voltage is never too high, at higher voltages you can set the electrodes further apart and thus using a bigger diameter tube for the electrodes, this will ionize bigger volumes of air. With the 555 timer you can adjust the level of max HV by adjusting the duty cycle, also the megaohm resistor in series with the HV helps a lot. Arcing is not desired, because as soon as an arc forms, the ionization and ion wind stops.
This is really simple and works like a charm

Last edited by Jetijs : 02-25-2010 at 09:20 AM.
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  #431 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 09:42 AM
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I attached the circuit
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sleedzis2 (2) (1).jpg (9.6 KB, 100 views)
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  #432 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:38 PM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Jetijs circuit will work just fine. I almost used a flyback too, but the core was cracked. I used the fet to slam the 2n3055 base hi. Nothing gets hot. Then I use a tripler from a old TV to go to DC and bump the voltage up.

The coil on the circuit is run near its resonate frequency. I did not bother to use a scope on this project. I tweaked the frequency with the tiny trim pot until the coil arced over its self. Then back up a bit, then a bit more. You want dc positive on the center electrode.

I made a smaller gas processor back in 2005 with a neon sign transformer and found that it only worked partly. It, operating at 60hz was a drawback.

@Jetijs did you try converting gasses other than air with your ionizer?

Dave
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  #433 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:50 PM
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Hi Dave
No, I have not tried any other gasses. I am not so far yet, I still have to reassemble my hho cell with different gaskets. But one of the first things I will try will be water steam. Russian research has found that using ionized steam can save up to 50% of fuel in a gas burner heater. They say that ionized steam releases hydrogen when reaching a critical temperature. This does not happen with regular steam. They got the heater 300 degree celsius hotter with that system and saved much natural gas that was used as fuel. I noticed something similar when I used the water spark circuit on my genset, I did not see any fuel economy, but the exhaust got much hotter when water was introduced. It does not make sense in conventional thinking, because usually the "wetter" the gas mixture, the cooler the engine runs
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  #434 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:21 PM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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The short story.
http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/cat...rr001_full.pdf

I have a paper on steam electricity http://free-energy-info.co.uk/P6.pdf
the ph of the starting water was the key and the pressure of the steam related to the spark length.

The pipe Plasmatron has a hissing sound.

Ill run propane thru it to a flare then flip the switch??

Then ill get a bottle of H2 and either compressed air or N2 and run them thru to the flare point

Dave

Last edited by dave_cahoon : 02-25-2010 at 08:23 PM. Reason: add link
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  #435 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:01 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Hi group,

I filled the reactor with propane. Closed it. Run the HVDC.
And the sparks are defiantly a different color, more greenish white.

I'm still here..

Will haul it outside and try flowing the propane through it to a burner.

Dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8700s.jpg (20.8 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8697s.jpg (23.0 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by dave_cahoon : 02-26-2010 at 08:08 AM.
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  #436 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2010, 09:54 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Group,

In the Propane Environment. I can still hear the Corona the same, BUT, I cant see it. I can only see the arc over events and they sound the same too.
Arcs look whiter and thicker???

Are the photons a color I cant see?
I did a Long Exposure photo and the Camera see's only arc's nothing else also.

Puzzled
Dave
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  #437 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:09 PM
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Update on references

Reference links:

Ammonia fuel production on demand from air, water and electricity & Related: Ionization & Water Fuel
Nitrogen Hydroxide ?
Ammonia (NH3) as fuel for car
Allotropic Nitrogen - Active Nitrogen
Atomic Hydrogen as a Fuel
Water Sparkplug
Oz Nitro Cell
Efficient Motors for Nitrogen Hydroxide
Turbojet Engine | Gas Turbines | DIY
Tesla Air MHD Electrical Generation Device

Other:
Non-nitrogen viewpoint: Stanley Meyer Explained
Slow burning water fuel proof: Dr. Stiffler's Slow Burning Water
Nitrogen possibility in Gray Tube:Gray Tube Replication
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  #438 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2010, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
With the 555 timer you can adjust the level of max HV by adjusting the duty cycle, also the megaohm resistor in series with the HV helps a lot. Arcing is not desired, because as soon as an arc forms, the ionization and ion wind stops.
This is really simple and works like a charm
That is the experiment hint I am looking for , thank you for the info .
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  #439 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:17 AM
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I am attempting to use ionizer at air filter with only ambient air as input. I don't know when I can start experiment with it. It would be great if anyone can do experiment with this.

Patent on ionizer for improving combustion:
Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search
Quote:
An air ionizer for installation in the air intake path of an internal combustion engine, to introduce ozone and other oxidizing agents into the engine with acceptable levels of air flow restriction and at a sufficient concentration level to substantially improve combustion within the engine. A glass tube is filled with an inert gas and has an inner electrode extending a short distance into an end of the tube. A foraminous copper outer electrode substantially surrounds the glass tube and is slightly spaced apart from it. A high voltage is applied between the inner and outer electrodes, so that when air flows past the tube, ozone and other oxidizing agents are generated between the outer surface of the tube and the outer electrode, and escape into the air stream through the holes in the outer electrode.
Fuel saving and pollution emission ... - Google Patent Search
Quote:
A fuel saving and pollution emission reduction system (10) that utilizes an air ionizer (58) that is easily attached inline between a vehicle air-intake hose (106) and a fuel injection throttle body (108) or a carburetor air-intake structure (110). The air ionizer, which functions with either gasoline or diesel fuel engines is operated by an electronic ionizer control unit (12). The unit (12) is located within the confines of the vehicle's engine compartment and is operated by a 12-volt d-c power source (104) derived from the vehicle's battery (102). When air from the vehicle air-intake hose (106) Passes through the air ionizer (12) the air is ionized and is mixed with the non-ionized air to produce an oxygenenriched fuel-air mixture. The oxygen-enriched mixture allows a fuel saving and produces a cleaner burning fuel which reduces hydro-carbon exhaust emission levels.

Method and apparatus for improving ... - Google Patent Search
Quote:
A method and apparatus for improving the efficiency of an internal combustion engine by producing ozone gas and positively charged air particles in a supply of air to an engine. The apparatus comprises an ozone generator cell suitably positioned with respect to the engine so that an air supply to the engine passes between adjacent plates of the ozone generator. In one embodied form, the apparatus comprises a tubular ozone generator cell for charging and ionizing a relatively small volume of air to the engine. The air supply to the generator may be first treated to substantially remove ambient moisture by means of a suitable air dryer. Optionally, a plurality of generators may be connected in sequence to provide an increased source of ozone gas to the engine thereby to commensurately reduce fuel consumption and exhaust gas emissions.
They are talking ozone, but it surely not just that.
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  #440 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:43 AM
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Hydroxylamine | Nitrogen Hydroxide

Nitrogen Hydroxide discovered in 1865
Chemical history: reviews of the ... - Google Books
"hydroxylamine"

Maybe the water gas is this and not ammonia or maybe both.
BOTH are possibilities.


--------------------------------------------------------------



Hydroxylamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hydroxylamine is a reactive chemical with formula NH2OH. It can be considered a hybrid of ammonia and water due to parallels it shares with each. At room temperature pure NH2OH is ordinarily a white, unstable crystalline, hygroscopic compound;[3] however it is almost always encountered as an aqueous solution.


Hydroxylamine tends to be explosive, and the nature of the hazard is not entirely understood. At least two factories dealing in hydroxylamine have been destroyed since 1999 with loss of life.[4] It is known, however, that ferrous and ferric iron salts accelerate the decomposition of 50% NH2OH solutions. Hydroxylamine and its derivatives are more safely handled in the form of salts.
NH2OH is an intermediate in biological nitrification. The oxidation of NH3 is mediated by hydroxylamine oxidoreductase (HAO).

Hydroxylamine explodes with heat:
4 NH2OH + O2 → 2 N2 + 6 H2O


Hydroxylamine




Last edited by Aaron : 02-27-2010 at 04:46 AM.
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  #441 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:02 AM
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Aaron,

Good find, any luck with the reference (109) to the "lengthy paper"???

Dave
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:45 AM
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hydroxalymine zinner

Hi Dave,

I actually didn't check... but here is the reference if anyone can find it.
I just looked for a bit and didn't see it:

G. Zinner, Chem-ztg., 1990, 114 (6), 197-204

That reference is from this book with this quote:

Nitrogen Hydroxide discovered in 1865
Chemical history: reviews of the ... - Google Books
"hydroxylamine"
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  #443 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2010, 05:39 PM
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AP

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
I am attempting to use ionizer at air filter with only ambient air as input. I don't know when I can start experiment with it. It would be great if anyone can do experiment with this.

Patent on ionizer for improving combustion:
Air ionizer for internal combustion ... - Google Patent Search


Fuel saving and pollution emission ... - Google Patent Search



Method and apparatus for improving ... - Google Patent Search


They are talking ozone, but it surely not just that.
Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike
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  #444 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:34 AM
dave_cahoon dave_cahoon is offline
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Spectral Lines

Hi group,

Why I cant see carbon or hydrogen corona..
Here is why, Spectra of Gas Discharges
The discharge spectrum is just the lines. Compare to Xenon.
I would need a spectroscopy camera.
(v shaped chamber, shutter, prism, BW photographic film)

These FACTS will hold true for all the geet plasmas too.

There can be a reaction going and its dark to the eye.
Or a narrow band R,G,B camera. A black and white real film camera
should see it. Again IF the glass does not block the wavelengths...
Quartz maybe?

So, if, you cant see anything in your sight glass, it does not mean failure.

Im very happy to say that the corona makes a hissing sound.
So, it can still be detected. Over the sound of an engine?, not likely tho.

Dave
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  #445 (permalink)  
Old 03-01-2010, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike
Thanks for the suggestion . How effective it is compare to corona or spark?

I found another 20 patents related to ionizer and ICE. I wonder why I never see anyone report positive result...

Currently only succeed in producing usual continuous spark with my oscillator. It only produce purple flashing neon bulb and loud periodic spark when I rectify it... Do not notice ion stream yet.
YouTube - Continuous purple with HV DC and capacitor discharge
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  #446 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Aaron, I have made a simple air ionizer that works very well. I use a flyback transformer from an old crt monitor, it has a ferrite core and I wind some 5 tuns of wire on that core.
Did you add rectifier? If the circuit in the video do not sue rectifier then it might be more powerfull with the rectifier, from link posted by others:

The Basics of Air Ionization for High-Technology Manufacturing Applications
Quote:
Ac Ionization. In alternating-current technology, high voltage is applied to a number of closely spaced emitter points that cycle negative and positive at the line frequency of 50 or 60 Hz. Ionization efficiency is low because the points remain above the ionization threshold voltage for each polarity only a small percentage of the time.

Steady-State Dc Ionization. High voltage of both polarities is continuously applied to pairs of positive and negative emitter points in standard direct-current technology; thus, the efficiency of ion production is better than that of ac ionizers.

Pulsed Dc Ionization. Positive and negative high-voltage currents to the emitter points are alternately turned on and off in pulsed systems, creating clouds of positive and negative ions that mix together in the work area. The result is a dramatic lowering of the recombination rate.
The last point is I think important for utilization of ionizer in an engine. We don't use FWBR but use single diode to get half wave.

Modification of jetijs picture:
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  #447 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 09:30 AM
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Hi sucahyo
You are right, the output should be DC, but as I said, I am using flyback transformers from old crt monitors and they have integrated diodes in them so the output is pulsed DC
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  #448 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 02:35 PM
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Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Hi sucahyo

Well found, just a little change:-

The first patent you quote here is the way to go, but you use a UV fl tube, one wire to tube and the other to a screan around it with a gap for the air to pass, all encased in a plastic tube

Mike
Mike,

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia View Post
Mike,

Thank you.

Best Regards,
Slovenia
You can use UV tube but >300nm of wavelenght (see Lens experiment), because if you use normal UV-C lamp you obtaion some ozone from reaction. but why change method if work better? tube cell is great idea. Don't have sense for me add as central tube an UV lamp.

Last edited by tutanka : 03-08-2010 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:44 AM
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sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hi sucahyo
You are right, the output should be DC, but as I said, I am using flyback transformers from old crt monitors and they have integrated diodes in them so the output is pulsed DC
I see, thanks .
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