2014 Energy Science & Technology Conference


Energetic Forum  

Go Back   Energetic Forum > Energetic Forum Discussion > Renewable Energy > Water Fuel
Homepage Energetic Science Ministries Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Water Fuel This forum is for discussion on any water fuel topic dealing with electrolysis, Stanley Meyer, hho, Brown's Gas, Puharich, etc...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2009, 09:13 PM
topangler81 topangler81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Mathod to Lowering hydrogen burn rate

Hi all. I really want to know how can i reduce hydrogen burn rate to equal to gasoline burn rate. So it safer to run it on gasoline engines. How to lower it:-)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-19-2009, 04:11 AM
Rectified Rectified is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by topangler81 View Post
Hi all. I really want to know how can i reduce hydrogen burn rate to equal to gasoline burn rate. So it safer to run it on gasoline engines. How to lower it:-)
A difficult question to respond to without more information. What type of engine and hydrogen, and how do you intend to apply your fuel? What other modifications to engine have you tried?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2009, 09:04 PM
topangler81 topangler81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Hi there. I have a hydrogen booster running on my 1.5liter car for almost 18months. But suddenly it make a huge problems to the engine. The engine was totally broken. The piston, piston ring and also spark plugs was worn out. It cause me a major repair that cost of thousands. I was trying to lower the hydrogen burn rate by injected air into the booster but it was a failure. May be the hydroxy air ratio not right. When i look back at the meyer document, he managed to lower the flame to equal the gasoline burn rate. Also mr dingel that run his car with hydroxy only told that we must lower the hydrogen flame rate if wanted to use hydrogen as fuel. Anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectified View Post
A difficult question to respond to without more information. What type of engine and hydrogen, and how do you intend to apply your fuel? What other modifications to engine have you tried?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2009, 04:15 AM
TRON TRON is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 191
facts

the amount of hydrogen fuel mixed into the engine determines the timing point. Too much hydrogen will cause detonation if the timing is not retarded, sometimes well past TDC. Most gasoline engines fire at 6 degrees BEFORE TDC. A pure Hydrogen engine will require timing set to 15 degrees After TDC. The problem we have is that hydrogen burns quickly and will not benefit you if the timing is left unchanged, it will actually cause worse mileage...take some copper tubing and run some exhaust fumes through your bubbler to mix with the hydroxy...that will lower the burn rate...may need to pass the tubing through a can in a coil form with water in the can to cool the exhaust first... also if you are using an electrolyte, do not use salt, the chlorine gas produced at the exhaust is very toxic...

this is why meyers took 30 years to perfect his engine...

also try using slick 50 engine treatment before doing any booster stuff...and please try these technologies on a VW engine or other cheap junkyard motor first, not on your recently purchased vehicle!

at least not until we all perfect the application...
maybe a good used motorcycle for testing... so its easier to work on and cheaper to fix!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:37 AM
Rectified Rectified is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 26
Hard learned lessons are never forgotten !!!

Hi
Sorry to hear yet another of us having to learn the hard way. Unfortunately there will be many more due to all the bad advise being posted on the net.
Over 30 years ago I went through 3 big block 454 engines in one summer learning the hard way and that was without the internet to blame.

As Tron pointed out timing is a must as well as valve overlap and many other issues so many fail to realize and will also learn the hard way.

Not to discourage your effort however there is much more information you will need to really understand the problems using hydrogen in most all stock ICEís. If you ever watch a drag car run, then you have seen what happens to hydrogen. Watch the headers of a dragster and you will see a yellow flame and as the rpm builds there is a white flame and a popping sound, this is the hydrogen igniting upon contact with oxygen in the air as it leaves the engine. This hydrogen is a by-product from burning Alky/nito mix. Through the years by studying are failures and examining the damaged components much has been learned. NASA and other well-known laboratories have documented the effects Hydrogen has on metal alloys. If you are concerned about the longevity of your engine then please do more research. To this day Iím unaware of any verifiable reports of any stock engine lasting as long with Hydrogen as without hydrogen. However GM with the new LS9 that is in the new ZR1 Corvette may have a chance. Other automakers are now starting to use Titanium, Ceramic, Hard Chrome; a few other tricked out components that GM is using. For example the LS9 has a blower on top that really helps in compressing the hydrogen for better disbursement and even flow into the combustion chamber.

Donít give up, you just need a little more research.

With a more detailed description of your Hydrogen cell and make and model of your engine some simple tips may helpful. There are far to many BAD designs and BAD adevise on the Internet and TOOOO many variables in engine designs to give much help at this point. What works for one setup will not be the same for another make or model when tuning for performance.

Later Rectifed
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:50 AM
sebosfato sebosfato is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: milan
Posts: 777
Just need to mix some exaust gas and ionized gases with the hydrogen before transporting it inside a very thin tubes or a ceramic piece with thousands of micro holes. The non combustible gases and ionized gases will not let them burn until reach the combustion chamber being sparked. The Direct injection system Its the best way as you can make it very controllable.

I made a thread that give you all info you need about LC resonance please check it out, if you like and have the possibility donate!
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...eyer-true.html
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2009, 09:35 AM
alsy alsy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 35
A leaner mixture is required

Changing the air to fuel ratio will change the burn rate of hydrogen..

A higher Oxygen to Hydrogen ratio will slow down the burn. In other words, a leaner mixture will slow down the burn rate.

At the moment, I am disorganized and in need of major re organization of my information, but i did have a bit of a look for you. You may need to use a search engine and perhaps wait for other posts for further info.

- the following is a patent that talks about orthohydrogen and parahydrogen, and about the differences in burn rate. I have no idea about its validity or practicality.
Method for producing orthohydrogen and/or parahydrogen - Patent 6419815


-At higher rpm, the piston naturally travels faster. In a conventional petrol/ gasoline fuelled combustion, there is less time to burn the fuel, so the ignition is normally advanced for that reason. My thoughts are that if it were practical, perhaps the air throttle could be a natural and easy way to allow control the burn rate. An air throttle, but in the reverse to how it is conventionally used... ie, as one puts the foot down to go increase engine speed, the air throttle moves towards letting less air in, but more hydrogen is let in, and thus is a rich condition for a faster burn rate.

-The following might also be worthy of study. There is good information in there, with comparisons of Stoichiometric ratios of hydrogen against petrol/ gasoline.
It is entitled "Hydrogen Use In Internal Combustion Engines";
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf
also related to that,, is called Hydrogen Properties
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm01r0.pdf


-Talks about flame speeds of hydrogen against other fuels
Re: How can engines be modified to run using alternative fuels?

I would like to add a comment about the argument against hydrogen such as in the last link, when it mentioned the high heat being a problem in producing greater NOX emissions. I personally think that is not an issue if one uses water injection to reduce the temperature. I have seen simple ones which sort of evaporate the water in a bottle from the engine vacuum. That is my understanding. Perhaps that may add some amount of power increase..
After all, Aguero, Juan Carlos claims in his patent that a 1400cc engine require 10cc of hydrogen per second if mixed with dry steam. That is 0.6 liters per minute for his small engine. For the none metric US people, a 1.4Liter engine calculates to be about 85 cubic inches. Even if you scale it up for the big engines in your country, it is a small amount that is within reach.
I do not know the link for his patent, so you will have to look it up. European Patent Application EP0405919

Last edited by alsy : 08-21-2009 at 09:42 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 12:23 AM
topangler81 topangler81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Thanks. And leaning out.

Thanks to all for this info. I think i have an idea to solved this problems. All info was very helpful. think that i will use both ambient air and exaust fume. May need to drill some hole and fit some valve at the intake value pipe. May need some electronics to control them. May be water vapor might be helps. Any suggestion anyone? How much fume and ambient air that i needed to lean out the hydrogen? burn rate.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:11 AM
alsy alsy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 35
topangler, the ratios of Oxygen to Hydrogen (and Oxygen to petrol/ gasoline) start on page twelve of the link i gave previously. Just so as not to confuse you or anyone else, i am referring to this link; http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogen...fs/fcm03r0.pdf

I first thought you were going to use pure hydrogen. In your last reply you mentioned exhaust fumes, and that leads me to think you might be doing the more common supplement of Petrol/ Gasoline with HHO.
I do not know how things work out in terms of speeds when there are a mixture of fuels.
To help you in your calculations, i would like to remind you of a few things;
-1/3 of HHO is Oxygen.
-Air contains close to 20% oxygen.
-Each car may differ in the exhaust valve closing angle. What that means for an Internal Combustion Engine (different for Diesel), is that even if you completely open the air intake, there is a limit to how much oxygen you can get in there. In practice, i do not know if that is a problem or not.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:55 AM
glenn_aircooled glenn_aircooled is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 17
Some practical comments [ note : this works for me but your set up / vehicle may differ ];
I have run Hydrogen Booster in my car for years.
I always run " Water Injection " with my Hydrogen Booster.
I do not mix extra air in with the Hydrogen-Oxygen input. - I would imagine this
would result in Too Lean mixture and engine damage.
Water injection will slow down the Hydrogen burn rate.
My unit is not Making Huge quantities of Hydrogen-Oxygen mix. Probably less than 0.8 L per minute.
Glenn.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2009, 08:53 AM
topangler81 topangler81 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 59
Water injector system.

Hi glenn. How do you put the water injector in your booster. Can you post some picture or diagram? I like to try it. May be work for me. The link that you give was broken. I could not access the page
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn_aircooled View Post
Some practical comments [ note : this works for me but your set up / vehicle may differ ];
I have run Hydrogen Booster in my car for years.
I always run " Water Injection " with my Hydrogen Booster.
I do not mix extra air in with the Hydrogen-Oxygen input. - I would imagine this
would result in Too Lean mixture and engine damage.
Water injection will slow down the Hydrogen burn rate.
My unit is not Making Huge quantities of Hydrogen-Oxygen mix. Probably less than 0.8 L per minute.
Glenn.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2013, 07:17 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,425
slow hho burn rate

bump... just such an interesting topic that has been here for 4 years.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
2007 Copyright ? Energetic Forum? A Non Profit Corporation - All Rights Reserved