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Water Fuel This forum is for discussion on any water fuel topic dealing with electrolysis, Stanley Meyer, hho, Brown's Gas, Puharich, etc...

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  #1471  
Old 01-22-2010, 02:53 PM
bussi04 bussi04 is offline
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U8 pin 5 reconnected to U8 pin 6
Pin 2 of RV7 connected to VCC
U2 in circuit again
Set center frequency to 5600 hz
R15 = 4.7 KOhm
R15 cut off from U8 pin 4 and connected to U7 pin 11
C10 = 500 nF
C10 connected to pin3 of U6B
R14 = 100 KOhm
C11 = 30 nF
D5 in series with Resistor 1 KOhm
Inserted Resistor 1 KOhm between C11 and pin5/6 of U8
Added capacitor 100 nF between pin 14 (VCC) and pin 7 (GND) of U6
MOD 1415#1: Connect the wire going to U6 pin 3 to U4 pin 9, being the only connection to U4 pin 9

OBS1420:
Repeating power up once more there is another situation:
U4 pin 4 135 kHz at duty 50% 5V SS
U4 pin 3 4215 hz duty 50% 4V SS
D6 on
U4 pin 5 (INH) constant 0V
U4 pin 2 5V SS rectangular duty variable
U4 pin1 5V SS variable frequency around 4215 hz duty 15%
U4 pin9 0 V with spikes up to 0.6V
u4 pin13 0V with short spikes to 0.6V
u4 pin14 4215 hz duty 50% 4V SS rectangular
u4 pin16 VCC no spikes
u4 pin7 GND no spikes
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  #1472  
Old 01-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Tecstatic Tecstatic is offline
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Posts: 452
Hi Bussi,

Now we finally nailed it

And what did we learn (at least)

1. Dimensioned components near the 4046 is a must
2. We can throw three 4017 away and replace with one 4024
3. We can throw U3 (555) and its helper components away.
4. We can add a jumper so we can connect RV7 to midpoint of R12-R13 to force the frequency for testing of phase on a real VIC.
5. C10 must be scaled so it fits to another resonant frequency, e.g ~15nF@40kHz
6. A wrong component value can completely change the circuit behavior
7, Simultaneously resonance in all windings is to prefer.
8. Modifying the tank resonance seeing a new frequency with zero phase difference at U4 pin3-14 is a good success indicator for the 4046 PLL operation.
9. Testing the PCB in its final application would not have left a single hair on the testers head.

and last but not least

10. 8. good corporation and persistence lead to success

Thank you bussi for being patient with me

Eric
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  #1473  
Old 01-23-2010, 10:59 PM
bussi04 bussi04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecstatic View Post
Hi Bussi,

Now we finally nailed it

And what did we learn (at least)

1. Dimensioned components near the 4046 is a must
2. We can throw three 4017 away and replace with one 4024
3. We can throw U3 (555) and its helper components away.
4. We can add a jumper so we can connect RV7 to midpoint of R12-R13 to force the frequency for testing of phase on a real VIC.
5. C10 must be scaled so it fits to another resonant frequency, e.g ~15nF@40kHz
6. A wrong component value can completely change the circuit behavior
7, Simultaneously resonance in all windings is to prefer.
8. Modifying the tank resonance seeing a new frequency with zero phase difference at U4 pin3-14 is a good success indicator for the 4046 PLL operation.
9. Testing the PCB in its final application would not have left a single hair on the testers head.

and last but not least

10. 8. good corporation and persistence lead to success

Thank you bussi for being patient with me

Eric

Hi eric,

thank you very much for guiding me through this very difficult procedure. without your support and guidance I would not have solved the problem.

you are an excellent expert engineer and you are
good structure, I have learned a lot!

now I will update the scheme. And I have archived our dialog in a pdf-file. I would prefer to clear our debugging dialog - itīs much stuff out of science range. what do you think? If you admit I would try to organize a cleanup by the admin or maybe a move to another thread ("debugging freedom circuit").
What are your ideas towards that?

once more - thank you very much - now that this problem is solved I feel very much better

and thank you for your patience with me

bussi04
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  #1474  
Old 01-23-2010, 11:23 PM
Tecstatic Tecstatic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bussi04 View Post
Hi eric,

thank you very much for guiding me through this very difficult procedure. without your support and guidance I would not have solved the problem.

you are an excellent expert engineer and you are
good structure, I have learned a lot!

now I will update the scheme. And I have archived our dialog in a pdf-file. I would prefer to clear our debugging dialog - itīs much stuff out of science range. what do you think? If you admit I would try to organize a cleanup by the admin or maybe a move to another thread ("debugging freedom circuit").
What are your ideas towards that?

once more - thank you very much - now that this problem is solved I feel very much better

and thank you for your patience with me

bussi04
You are welcome.

Don't say you could not solve it, with time, will, persistence and being a quick learner I think you could do it.

But if H20 is right, time is a limited resource.

I let it up to you and H20 what to do with the debugging stuff, but it should be preserved in some way or another as a debugging guide to the SM circuit for others trying to make this work.

Don't forget to check the value of every single component, so the diagram exactly matches your running circuit.

Then you can consider a new PCB if the modifications are too much on the existing PCB.

By the way I forgot to mention you can throw away U6 (4066) and one 4001 IC as you don't need U7D and U8A anymore and have spares in U15. The simpler the better.

When an extra board are ready, H20 can proceed, hopefully to succeed.

Eric
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  #1475  
Old 01-24-2010, 08:07 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Thanks you two for all you have done for humanity in aiding me to complete the much needed circuit. I couldn't have done this with out you two .
We now have 21 months before the collapse of the dollar, so I will get to testing ASAP. Hopefully it will be up and running well before the end of that time frame , only time will tell.

Thanks for everything, energy independence will be a dream come true for me that I have been dreaming of for well over 25 years now.


h2opower.
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  #1476  
Old 01-24-2010, 04:03 PM
Toborg Toborg is offline
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Working Model, Anyone

Howdy all,
I've read allot but not all as there is just to much on this tread. I for what all has been said have yet to see a finished product nor has there been given a positive conclusion to any or all of what has been said here. Super Ion's and protons blah blah blah (SORRY) Please let us all see a product functioning at 43,863 joules/mol of hydrogen/oxygen production. Anyone, yes, please,,,,,,,,,, no, OK Just asking. Be well all and please just go do it. I am making and testing and getting better and better results each time with some set backs each time as well . Diff is that I'm doing and not talking or getting off track with all this wide talk an so many gismos. Very expensive. Hybrid transformers GOD ITS ENOUGH TO DRIVE ONE CRAZZZZYYYYY. Please forgive the shouting. I just would like to see a working model.
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  #1477  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:51 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toborg View Post
Howdy all,
I've read allot but not all as there is just to much on this tread. I for what all has been said have yet to see a finished product nor has there been given a positive conclusion to any or all of what has been said here. Super Ion's and protons blah blah blah (SORRY) Please let us all see a product functioning at 43,863 joules/mol of hydrogen/oxygen production. Anyone, yes, please,,,,,,,,,, no, OK Just asking. Be well all and please just go do it. I am making and testing and getting better and better results each time with some set backs each time as well . Diff is that I'm doing and not talking or getting off track with all this wide talk an so many gismos. Very expensive. Hybrid transformers GOD ITS ENOUGH TO DRIVE ONE CRAZZZZYYYYY. Please forgive the shouting. I just would like to see a working model.
Really what I read from you is this: You didn't take the time to read the thread fully because it is too long and will take too much of your time. Is that what your are really saying. Let me tell you something time is not the issue for the time it would take you to read the thread will pass no matter if you read it or not, so time it not the problem.

You want a video of a working model, right, then what? As if seeing would be believing for someone that doesn't take the time to read. As I have said before, if I do make a video, all I will tell you to do is read the thread if you want to learn how to replicate one for yourself. I view a video as nothing more than entertainment, and I am not in the entertainment industry, no I am just someone that wants to be free, and pass that freedom on to my children.

Right now much testing remains, but the way I set up the thread each and everyone of us should be running test based on the math & science I posted on their own.

Question, have you built a Gas Processor?
Did you understand that the circuit was being tested for functionality?
Have you built a VIC transformer in anticipation of the circuit that controls it?
What kind of testing have you been running to shed some light on things like what is the purpose of the electron extraction circuit?
Have made any conclusions on which wavelengths you are going to try and/or use? and also why you picked them for use?
Have you learn from this thread what the explosive mixture is according to the patents of Stanley Meyer?
All of these questions and testings are for you to solve and try. And there are many more questions that you have to answer as this is a do it yourself thread, for if you want to be free of energy enslavement you are going to have to do the work for yourself and pass on, if you so choose, what you have learned to your fellow man. Do you think I am going to build a gas processor for you? or have a ready to go VIC transformer complete with matching circuitry for you? I am sorry but that is just not going to happen as this is to be a grassroots effort in breaking the addiction to coal and oil. Not all cars made will be able to be converted and as such each and everyone of us has to find a car/gen set that will accept the switch over. Much work remains but at least we have this thread to read and a lot of good people working towards the goal of energy independence utilizing Stanley Meyer's technology.

I hope you see my point in my line of questioning,

h2opower.
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  #1478  
Old 01-25-2010, 01:45 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Now I am going to give an example of asking and answering ones own questions.

I, in an earlier post, said that I think that the voltage zone of the injectors might not be needed as the math clearly shows the ionized oxygen atoms have enough energy to break down the water molecule if intimately mixed. In analyzing this I ask the question, show the full events as they take place inside of the intake system to see what is happening step by step, maybe something was overlooked?

As it turned out when I did this I saw that indeed something was overlooked and that was the properties of water cohesion and adhesion effects on the resulting water plume and parts that surround the water plume as it travels towards the combustion chamber. If I was to inject water into the normal intake system of an injection car the water mist would pass around the intake valve and seat adhering to it as it does forming larger droplets. On anything in-between the site of injection towards the combustion chamber too include the combustion chamber itself would have water trying to stick to it forming larger water droplets in the process. That is not intimately mixing of the fuel gases. Now no one ever pointed this out to me to correct my thinking on this, but asking and answering my own question lead to the need for the voltage zone just after the injection site going towards the combustion chamber.

That is not the only reason I found out it is needed, the resulting water plume would be attracted to itself forming larger water droplets as a result of water's cohesive properties and that will also not allow an intimate mixing with the ionized air gases. The job of the voltage zone can be in this case to place a image charge on the water droplets that make them repel from the walls or anything negative to include themselves. Now this does allow very intimate mixing of the two, water mist and ionized air gases.

As you can see I am not perfect I make mistakes all the time. But what I have found out is that for me, there is no one there to point out these mistakes for me. Nope, I have to be the one that finds and corrects them when I do. Now most people don't take the sequence of events into account fully to see problems like these. Now this post did help me find these problems: http://www.energeticforum.com/39933-post96.html
Quote:
A quote taken from the patent found there.
...Furthermore, electrically charged liquid fuel droplets resist coalescing into larger droplets, thereby permitting the fuel to be mixed more thoroughly with the air...
As you can see even I read my own thread for there is a lot of helpful information in there even for me the one who wrote it. So, what does this say for those people who choose not to read the thread and try and form an argument with me? Or for those people actively working on a project of their own design? Here I set up a challenge to all readers: http://www.energeticforum.com/49354-post197.html


h2opower.
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Last edited by h20power; 01-25-2010 at 01:48 AM.
  #1479  
Old 01-25-2010, 01:46 PM
natone_m natone_m is offline
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Just curious

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20power View Post
We now have 21 months before the collapse of the dollar,
This is the wrong forum to bring this question up in... but what sources have you read that led you to this conclusion? I'm not in any way in disagreement with you but i would like to read your source on the whole dollar collapse issue. The currency issue is (as far as i'm concerned) this country's #1 domestic issue. I find it scarier than any agenda this administration is pushing.

Nate
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  #1480  
Old 01-25-2010, 06:14 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natone_m View Post
This is the wrong forum to bring this question up in... but what sources have you read that led you to this conclusion? I'm not in any way in disagreement with you but i would like to read your source on the whole dollar collapse issue. The currency issue is (as far as i'm concerned) this country's #1 domestic issue. I find it scarier than any agenda this administration is pushing.

Nate
Not really the wrong form as this is a sense of urgency I got this information from here: The American Ruling Class and I have no reason to not believe this individual. I took a look at many other things to see if this held up to a plan and guess what? the housing is set to have the biggest fall starting in mid 2011 when the housing low interest rates are up and people are already struggling to pay there mortgages and when that ends those same people will be forced to pay from $850 to $2100. There are other indicators I found but that is a big and easy one to see. But if you haven't started reading that thread you should do so as much information is in there that can give you a heads up on what the Ruling Class is planning, doing, and have done.

Now if I can't this technology up and running in about 18 months time, and the dollar starts to collapse I will be unable to finish for I will all the sudden be broke and fighting to find ways to just put food on the table. This technology gives us a fighting chance for if a person has this technology they gain control of their energy needs and no longer have to pay a retailer for energy of any kind. What does that mean for the person that has this technology if the dollar folds? All money that would have been spent on heating, cooling, transportation, electricity, and everything that can be converted by this technology will become free of charge, for it will be controlled by the individual empowering them. This way when the crash happens you will not have your power cut off, waiting in long gas lines and paying through the nose for it, and can drive anywhere you want free of this planned dollar collapse. Now if you have farm equipment then you can convert all of your equipment and still sow the fields when oil prices reach record highs as oil, for the most part, will be obsolete when this technology is up and running. But if I don't get it up and running in about 18 months from now and share what I know to others, when the dollar folds, many will die as a result. So, now you can see that the clock is ticking, and if the technology you are working can't predictably be completed in that time frame, then you should drop it and move on to one that you can see getting it done in the time limit we have been given.

This doesn't just affect Americans but any country that has a lot of dollars will also fall as we fall. Someone call this the beginning of the new dark age that took place in the 1400's. But we will have to wait and see how it all plays out. Remember killing 80-90% of the worlds population is also on their agenda. Right now because of oil and coal we have a population bubble, and if that bubble burst God help us all. And all "they" have to do is raise the prices so high that everyone else will starve to death trying to pay for it or just say we ran out, sorry world. This technology can save us from these horrific fates.


h2opower.
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  #1481  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:45 PM
natone_m natone_m is offline
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This is interesting

This Article i read a while back makes references to the mortgage reset chart that the IMF put out in their risk assesment. The scariest part of the report i beleive is the mortgage reset chart on pg 8. Towards the end of 2010 we're going to see all heck break loose according to the chart.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/.../pdf/chap1.pdf
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  #1482  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:26 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natone_m View Post
This Article i read a while back makes references to the mortgage reset chart that the IMF put out in their risk assesment. The scariest part of the report i beleive is the mortgage reset chart on pg 8. Towards the end of 2010 we're going to see all heck break loose according to the chart.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/.../pdf/chap1.pdf
Hi Natone_m,

Yeah their charts are pretty close to the ones I have seen on this. Starting in Oct 2010 people will start to lose their homes again, and when it peaks in July 2011 25%, or more, of new people will have lost their homes on top of the ones that have already lost their homes. At this point the dollar will begin to buckle and start it's downward slide to an new currency and a new America, with Mexico and Canadian added in after that new currency is accepted.

Now you can see my sense of urgency in getting this project completed in time to make a difference. Not just to save myself but for all the people that will be hurt by this take-over move by the Ruling Class. You want to know the strange thing about all of this? When they do this Americans will demand this new currency and the fall of America will take place with thunderous applause from it's brain dead citizens.

All I can do is try to help, and this technology can help if it is received in time to make a difference. If I get it up and running too late then it will be of little use for the starving masses that will demand the new form of currency with the promise it will get their lives back in order. Only time will tell how all of this plays out.

This is also apart of their plans and has to be dealt with very quickly if American is to survive:
YouTube - Part 1| Keith Olbermann Special Comment: Freedom Of Speech Has Been Destroyed - 01/21/10
YouTube - Part 2| Keith Olbermann Special Comment: Freedom Of Speech Has Been Destroyed - 01/21/10
YouTube - A NEW DOLLAR : an insider from the fed banks meeting
Keep your head up, for people like me are out there trying to help.

h2opower.
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Last edited by h20power; 01-25-2010 at 09:33 PM.
  #1483  
Old 01-26-2010, 12:12 AM
Toborg Toborg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20power View Post
Really what I read from you is this: You didn't take the time to read the thread fully because it is too long and will take too much of your time. Is that what your are really saying. Let me tell you something time is not the issue for the time it would take you to read the thread will pass no matter if you read it or not, so time it not the problem.

You want a video of a working model, right, then what? As if seeing would be believing for someone that doesn't take the time to read. As I have said before, if I do make a video, all I will tell you to do is read the thread if you want to learn how to replicate one for yourself. I view a video as nothing more than entertainment, and I am not in the entertainment industry, no I am just someone that wants to be free, and pass that freedom on to my children.

Right now much testing remains, but the way I set up the thread each and everyone of us should be running test based on the math & science I posted on their own.

Question, have you built a Gas Processor?
Did you understand that the circuit was being tested for functionality?
Have you built a VIC transformer in anticipation of the circuit that controls it?
What kind of testing have you been running to shed some light on things like what is the purpose of the electron extraction circuit?
Have made any conclusions on which wavelengths you are going to try and/or use? and also why you picked them for use?
Have you learn from this thread what the explosive mixture is according to the patents of Stanley Meyer?
All of these questions and testings are for you to solve and try. And there are many more questions that you have to answer as this is a do it yourself thread, for if you want to be free of energy enslavement you are going to have to do the work for yourself and pass on, if you so choose, what you have learned to your fellow man. Do you think I am going to build a gas processor for you? or have a ready to go VIC transformer complete with matching circuitry for you? I am sorry but that is just not going to happen as this is to be a grassroots effort in breaking the addiction to coal and oil. Not all cars made will be able to be converted and as such each and everyone of us has to find a car/gen set that will accept the switch over. Much work remains but at least we have this thread to read and a lot of good people working towards the goal of energy independence utilizing Stanley Meyer's technology.

I hope you see my point in my line of questioning,

h2opower.
Just more useless talk. Nothing, its not about me, you or any one person, its about every ones future. I don't have to read all of this tread to understand that you are no closer then anyone else. I will say this, We now know what not to do. Good luck guys, I just hope that the one person who does get it right will freely share it with the world. Your not very good at being condescending. Work at it you my get better one day. Night all.
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  #1484  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:57 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toborg View Post
Just more useless talk. Nothing, its not about me, you or any one person, its about every ones future. I don't have to read all of this tread to understand that you are no closer then anyone else. I will say this, We now know what not to do. Good luck guys, I just hope that the one person who does get it right will freely share it with the world. Your not very good at being condescending. Work at it you my get better one day. Night all.
But you never answered even one question. In your use of the word condescending I take it you don't believe that I will share this information with you openly and freely, right? For you think I am in this for the money and will take from everyone reading this thread, by offering to make units for people that can not, of course for a price, am I right in my interpretation of your thoughts of me?

You think I am scam artist of some kind and that everything I put on this thread is all make believe, totally fake, even though I posted the math of the process, and so much more. Now for the people that can not make these units you best find someone that can, for I am not going to be making them for you. More than likely I will not even be in the country as I can see the the ship is sinking, and am not blinded by all the entertainment put out in front of me to distract me from these facts.

In the course of your life you will perhaps never meet someone like me ever again, as I don't see too many people that think the same as I do. Breaking free of the mind control that have been placed all around you is a very hard thing to do. I wouldn't expect 1 in every 100k to have pulled their minds free of the mind control that has been placed upon them. Aaron Russo was one that broke free of their mind control, but he is dead now, and there are others, but they are very few in numbers.

Yes, if I get it right you will have it also, that I make as a promise to everyone reading this thread. But you will have to build it or have it built and installed on your own, for as I already pointed out the clock is ticking. Good day to you Sir, and thanks for stopping by this little thread.


h2opower.
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  #1485  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:34 AM
mmm_66 mmm_66 is offline
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Thank You All

Hi everyone...
All I can say is a big "THANK YOU" to each and everyone of you who contributed all the information you have supplied in this forum. I have been in other forums that didnt even come close to having a clue what they were talking about. Keep up the great work. For me it is starting to pay off tremendously and as I progress more I will post my results. With great respect to each one of you.
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  #1486  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:59 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm_66 View Post
Hi everyone...
All I can say is a big "THANK YOU" to each and everyone of you who contributed all the information you have supplied in this forum. I have been in other forums that didn't even come close to having a clue what they were talking about. Keep up the great work. For me it is starting to pay off tremendously and as I progress more I will post my results. With great respect to each one of you.
On behalf of all of us I want to say your very welcome .

Now I wanted to talk about something that has been bugging me greatly. It is the proposed theory of Nitrous oxide (N2O) I will go over this right now in great detail to show why the theory breaks down when you take a close look at it.

Nitrous oxide(N2O)


I will put it to everyone as simply as I can.
nitrous oxide | using nitrous oxide systems in combustion engines
Quote:
A property of nitrous oxide is that at about 565 degrees F., it breaks down into nitrogen and oxygen. When it is introduced into the intake tract of an internal combustion engine, it is sucked into the combustion chamber and, on the compression stroke, when the charge air temperature reaches 565 deg., a very oxygen-rich mixture results. If we add extra fuel during nitrous oxide injection, the effect is like a super charger or increasing the compression ratio of the engine. Automotive nitrous systems work like the automotive equivalent of a jet's "afterburner" and is used for short duration extra bursts of power.
Nitrous oxide has this effect because it has a higher percentage of oxygen content than does the air in the atmosphere. Nitrous has 36% oxygen by weight and the atmosphere has 21%. Additionally, nitrous oxide is 50% more dense than air at the same pressure. Thus, a cubic foot of nitrous oxide contains 2.3 times as much oxygen as a cubic foot of air. Just do a bit of math in your head and you can see if we substitute some nitrous oxide for some of the air going into an engine then add the appropriate amount of additional fuel, the engine is going to put out more power.
The balloon logic


If I give you a balloon full of air and told you to make all of the nitrogen found in it into NO2 how much oxygen would you have left over? Given that Nitrogen makes up 78% of our air and oxygen only 21%? Composition of Our Atmosphere - Geography For Kids - By KidsGeo.com The answer is none as all the oxygen would be used up to create nitrous oxide and since it is a two to one ratio then only 42% of the nitrogen would be used to create nitrous oxide. That leaves 36% of the air as pure nitrogen. Since this balloon is all you get to play with in running your ICE, then what is left to combust with the hydrogen? Answer, is nothing. You would not get the engine running at all as Nitrous oxide is non combustible.
If you convert half into nitrous oxide then only 10.5% of the oxygen will be will be available to form into water after ignition in the presence of hydrogen. Remember this balloon is all you get to use and we in the science world call this balloon "The Conservation of Mass." So to create nitrous oxide really results in a net loss of energy as it takes energy to create it. Oxygen is the oxidizer and without it you will not get a reaction. So, if you create nitrous oxide from the balloon and use what oxygen is left over to combust with hydrogen then there is no net gain combustible substance but only a net loss.
It takes heat, as shown in the above quote, to break down the nitrous oxide in an internal combustion engine run on gasoline the heat of the hydrogen found in the fuel is used to break down the nitrous oxide, but the key thing tutanka is missing is the nitrous oxide that goes into an internal combustion engine comes from a second balloon which is better known as a nitrous oxide injection system , short form NOS. This heat from the reaction of the gasoline breaks down the newly added nitrous oxide and then you have one more oxygen atom per molecule of nitrous oxide available for combustion with more gasoline. But this is a two balloon system not a one balloon system as tutanka is saying is possible with only a one balloon system. If you only have one balloon you can not get more oxygen in the system available for combustion with the hydrogen, and as I have just shown you if you do convert some oxygen from the system you have less oxygen atoms available for combustion with the hydrogen atoms. The intake of any car is a one balloon system, unless you have installed a nitrous oxide injection system complete with a NOS tank which makes it a two balloon system by default.
Now do you understand why his theory breaks down when you take a closer look at it? For what he is saying is he has found away to make more oxygen than that from which he started out with. Nitrous oxide is a non explosive compound, nitrogen gas is non explosive. The only gas in the whole system that is explosive is hydrogen. And note this hydrogen does not combine with nitrogen in an explosive manor. The result of hydrogen forming with nitrogen that is explosive after it is made is HNO3: http://www.lycos.com/info/nitric-acid--hno3.html learn how it is made.

Now there is even more that should be said with it as his theory just keeps breaking down when looked at closely, but I am the one that is being made out to look like a fool. In the reaction with gasoline one has to understand that oxygen is the limiting reagent or in other words there isn't enough of it to complete the reaction fully. For we all know that some of the oxygen is used for combustion, and some for creation of CO2, CO, and NO as a result there isn't enough oxygen in the system to burn all the fuel with it's slow burn rate. Now nitrous oxide is introduced to the system with another bottle and at 565 degrees F the nitrous oxide breaks down providing extra oxygen to be use for combustion with the hydrogen in gasoline. That is how it works to boost power of the system by adding in more oxygen. But the key point here is that this is a two balloon system not a single balloon system as tutanka is saying can take place.

Now in sharp contrast the system in which Stanley Meyer used, hydrogen is the limiting reagent as when it is made it already has the perfect amount of oxygen needed for combustion, and then you add in more oxygen from the outside air supply. So with that in mind if you where to add a NOS injection system to the car what would be the point of adding in more oxygen when there is already too much in the system? Plus that oxygen will be untreated by the Gas Processor and/or Water Fuel Injectors not missing any electrons. His non understanding of how a NOS system works in a standard gasoline driven internal combustion engine is his down fall, plus the fact he doesn't seem to know that Stanley Meyers system has too much oxygen in it already for it is the hydrogen that is the limiting reagent and not the oxygen as is the case for the gasoline fueled system. I should call that system the Rothechild/Rockfeller system since they are the primary people driving the gasoline system to be maintained and taking in a lot of the profits.

But that is not it on how his theory falls apart when looked at closely. How the nitrous oxide is formed is yet another issue. In nature nitrous oxide is formed when nitrogen monoxide(NO) + ozone(O3) + sunlight interact to form the nitrous oxide compound. Other ways it is made it has to be derived from something else. Now you have to ask how is NO formed? And it turns out that to make NO takes a lot of heat something like 1400 degrees or so. So first you have to have the NO and O3 present plus the correct wavelengths of light energy to produce nitrous oxide. That you are not going to get from sucking in air from our air supply, one big balloon most of us call earth. So as you can see his theory just doesn't hold up, but I am the one that is being made out to be the stupid one not living in the real world. Nitrous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now at first when he proposed the theory I didn't know if it could work or not, so I looked into it with an open mind, but look deeply into it I did and what I found out was, it will not work that way. Note it did make me understand Meyer system a whole lot better so for that I should thank him and perhaps I will. For if he hadn't suggested it I wouldn't have learned the Meyer system is an hydrogen deficient system totally unlike gasolines oxygen deficient system. It is the conservation of mass that prevents his theory from working correctly and how nitrous oxide is formed and/or created in general. For in his system he has not identified just where the nitrous oxide will be coming from and/or where it will be formed as it travels down the cars intake system, the Gas Processor now being a part of that system for it is found in both of Stanley Meyer's designs (gaseous injection system and the water injection system).

Now I wrote this so that everyone can see why I say it can't work that way for themselves given the same data and information I looked at to draw that conclusion. Here are previous post that I also show more information on the subject:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post64950
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post65072
Quote:
From: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post65421
Inert Nitrogen (78 percent of the air) is absolutely essential.

It is this that prevents the horrible detonation and runaway heat problems that your car would have by absorbing the heat generated and expanding to shove the piston down. It is the most abundant gas in the combustion chamber. And it really does need to be. Nitrogen might even be stripped of electrons but that doesn't change it from being an Inert Gas. The reaction generating the heat in the system is coming from the Hydrogen and Oxygen.

As I have stated earlier the Gas Processor can not create Nitrous Oxide. Nitrous oxide is most commonly prepared by careful heating of ammonium nitrate. And if it did, by some means of magic, the conservation of mass comes into play for the Nitrous oxide that would be created in this magical world would be created from the very supply of oxygen and nitrogen coming into the system so there is no net gain of an oxidizer or nitrogen.

Now if you hook up a NOS system and add Nitrous oxide to the system then yes upon ignition you would get a net gain in oxidizer and nitrogen (approximately 64%) because you physically put the gas into the system.
I hope this clears things up so we stop having these opposing points of view on Stanley Meyer's patents.

Let me know if this was informative or not, okay everyone?

Energy independence is our goal so lets get too it and keep our noses to the grindstone,

h2opower.
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  #1487  
Old 01-27-2010, 01:11 AM
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atomic nitrogen + atomic hydrogen

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20power View Post
If I give you a balloon full of air and told you to make all of the nitrogen found in it into NO2 how much oxygen would you have left over? Given that Nitrogen makes up 78% of our air and oxygen only 21%? Composition of Our Atmosphere - Geography For Kids - By KidsGeo.com The answer is none as all the oxygen would be used up to create nitrous oxide and since it is a two to one ratio then only 42% of the nitrogen would be used to create nitrous oxide. That leaves 36% of the air as pure nitrogen. Since this balloon is all you get to play with in running your ICE, then what is left to combust with the hydrogen? Answer, is nothing. You would not get the engine running at all as Nitrous oxide is non combustible.
H2OPOWER,


HEAT instantly separates oxygen from nitrogen in N2O (nitrous oxide) and
just simple engine heat makes all that extra oxygen available for combustion,
but...



You mention NO2, that isn't nitrous oxide, that is nitrogen dioxide.

If you have a gasoline engine, why does N2O (which is nitrous oxide)
make the fuel burn better? It lowers the temp making a denser mixture
meaning you pack more fuel and air in there, but also the N2O acts as a
oxygen delivery system for more oxygen available to burn the fuel more
thoroughly.

The premise of your argument that oxygen is bound to nitrogen makes
it unavailable for aiding in combustion is actually not true N2O breaks
down under high temperature
meaning it instantly separates freeing
up all the oxygen. This truly is a fact about N2O and has been known
for ages as it applies to Internal Combustion Engines.

But to the point of water fuel engine, nobody is proposing that N2O
(nitrous oxide) is what makes it work. It is the fact that in the air
processor, when electrons are stripped from nitrogen and oxygen both,
they are BOTH unstable and are difficult to combine into N2O before
any combustion takes place anyway.

The atomic nitrogen mixed with atomic hydrogen, which is freed up
from HH from the plasma becomes "very reactive." I have searched and
found the same that active nitrogen and hydrogen produces "anomalous"
reactions.

"active nitrogen" hydrogen - Google Search

Spend a few hours and pour through the literature of active nitrogen
and reactions with water vapor, water, moisture, hydrogen, atomic
hydrogen, etc...

There is a lot about active nitrogen and hydrogen and hydrocarbons and
other chemistry but don't throw the baby out with the bath water, they're
all pointing to amazing properties of active nitrogen and apparently in
much of the science, it is an unknown why nitrogen has these properties.

Also, the nitrogen acts as a EEC in the combustion chamber as part
of the process.

H2OPower, it would be a shame for you to have put so much time,
money, and effort into this project to simply be so easily dismissive of
what Tutanka has shared and again, nobody is saying nitrous oxide is
what makes it work, just that some nitrous 'could' be produced in the
combustion chamber - but that is NOT the key. Active nitrogen +
atomic hydrogen is.

Whether you agree with him or not or think he was argumentative towards
you in this thread, the published literature over a hundred years points
exactly to verifying that the "Thermal Explosive Energy" results from a
peculiar reaction with ACTIVE NITROGEN and ATOMIC HYDROGEN.

Again, the nitrogen is very positively charged in the air processor just
as oxygen is, so therefore, how much nitrous would be created?

Arguing against it by arguing against nitrous oxide isn't even arguing
against what Tutanka shared.

I studied active nitrogen a bit in the past because of a completely
different application in electromagnetics..sealed nitrogen in a tube with
rotors, etc... Anyway, coming full circle, to active nitrogen and I do
see absolutely in the literature amazing characteristics to active
nitrogen and atomic hydrogen. I'm still sorting it out in my head but
is is absolutely undeniable.

Check this page:
Lord Rayleigh: Active Nitrogen

It has been known for years that the active nitrogen can emit more
energy that it received and may account for part of the "anomalous"
reactions with hydrogen.

You already have just about all the parts needed for a full replications.
You have the air processor, you posted pics I saw them, you can put
the led's in there and the electrons stripping circuit is no more complicated
than a positive ionizing hair dryer schematic from the sharper image patent.

Anyway, you're light years ahead of me in terms of having nicely machined
parts, you seem to have the circuitry for efficient HHO production even
though you don't need tons of hho, just a bit, etc... you're in the position
to probably more quickly replicate a 100% water fuel engine than anyone
else on the forum maybe. I know a lot of others probably think so.

We are both aware of the fact that something doesn't make sense about
having the fuel be 100% hho because nobody is creating enough hho
in any cell to fully run an engine. NOT EVEN MEYER regardless of what
he states. All video evidence shows HHO production that is NOT impressive
in the least bit. He may be doing it very efficiently but he certainly is not
making enough to run an entire dune buggy engine on it.

I'm not arguing with you here so please don't take it like that. Simply,
you've done so much... Forget about nitrous oxide, its irrelevant.
Active nitrogen + atomic hydrogen. Do the research and you'll come to
the same conclusion. If you have the Air Processor built right and are
positively charging the air and stripping electrons from oxygen, then
you absolutely MUST BE producing active nitrogen at the same time.

I don't know many people that have put this much time and effort into
these projects as you have and I'm only trying to help. If you don't want
me to post in this thread either, I'll step out, that's fine but please don't
get stuck on nitrous oxide or even nitrogen dioxide.

Active Nitrogen + Atomic Hydrogen

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Aaron Murakami

  #1488  
Old 01-27-2010, 06:14 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Aaron, sorry but that was my mistake at first when the theory was proposed to me as I didn't at first know the chemical make up of nitrous oxide. Like I said it was new to me and I had to look into it to fully understand what was being proposed. But no matter if I made that mistake the problem still would exist that the oxygen used to create the N2O or NO2 comes from your one balloon source of air. But the only way to know for sure is to set up a Gas Processor and fire it up with a gas spectrum analyzer and see what gases are produced by the Gas Processor with an air flow rate of 32ft/sec minimum. To do that you have to have the correct circuitry one with an electron extraction circuit, and the correct pulsing of the LEDs to boot.

But my main point in all of this is if you make the N2O from the same supply air that feeds into the intake system you will get no net gain in oxygen concentration. But if you understand that Meyer's system already has an excess of oxygen already, what would be the point of adding in any more oxygen? My points are valid and have to be considered with his theory in mind excepting that those problems I found with the theory can't be over-looked and just swept aside as if they didn't matter. No they have to be addressed in order to prove the theory to be a valid one.

Now in my theory of Meyer's work the two processes Meyer employed one had an advantage over the other in that the wfc produced untreated oxygen to be injected into the combustion chamber and the water fuel injectors could treat the incoming oxygen that was being produced on demand by the water fuel injectors. Then there is the problem of what is explosive and what is non explosive and what is an oxidizer. Nitrogen is non explosive, Nitrous oxide is non explosive, Nitrogen dioxide is non explosive, and Nitrogen monoxide is non explosive. There are only two reactants in the system that are explosive when mixed together and they are hydrogen and oxygen.

Aaron you also didn't understand that the paragraph I wrote in saying if you converted all the available oxygen to nitrous oxide you would have no oxygen left for the gasoline to burn in to produce the 565 degree F heat to break down the nitrous oxide.

h2opower.
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Last edited by h20power; 01-27-2010 at 06:17 AM.
  #1489  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:43 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Hi everyone,

Here are some questions I will answer for everyone.

"How is Stanley Meyer's two designs that he employed an oxygen rich system?"

Answer: The WFC produces hydrogen and oxygen on demand and the water fuel injector also do this. Then the outside air is sucked into the intake system of the car adding even more oxygen to the system. The oxygen that the WFC and WFI's create is in a stoichiometric mixture with the hydrogen, so any outside air being brought into the system containing oxygen, the oxygen that it does bring in is more than is needed as the resulting mixture from the two sources are a perfect match for burning all of both atoms completely.

"What two components Meyer used can strip electrons from the atoms?"

Answer: The water fuel injectors and the gas processor.

"Why does Stanley Meyer specifically say that you have to strip four or more electrons from the oxygen atoms?"

Answer: When looking at the math of the process, one can see that at the fourth energy level the mixture over takes gasolines energy content.
2 H-H bonds 872 kJ/mol and 1 O=O bond 7469.2 kJ/mol are formed yielding 8341.2 kJ/mol. The net sum of the reaction now is 8341.2-1836 = +6505.2 kJ/mol and that is more than gasolines 5080 kJ/mol. And note these numbers assume no hydrogen was created by the water fuel injectors only a charge placed on them so they can't reform into larger water droplets and/or stick to other things while traveling towards the combustion chamber if it has the same charge. Also the hydrogen has not been ionized in this equation as-well. This is a worst case equation or one could view it as cold start situation.

"What advantage did Meyer get when he went from a gaseous injection system to a direct water injection system?

Answer:
1. The loss of 10 VIC transformers and controlling circuitry that went along with them.
2. He had no more need for the quenching circuitry, pressure regulators, and transport issues of the hydrogen/oxygen mixture created by the water fuel capacitor.
3. It cut down the size of the retrofit kit considerable.
4. It cut cost by not needing all of these missing items.
5. It cut weight off of the conversion kit and lost weight saves fuel.
6. Easier to diagnose a problem if one occurred.
7. Easier and faster installation times.
8. I am sure there are more that everyone can think of that I didn't mention here.

If you have questions you would like answers too I and others can try to answer them for you, all you have to do is ask .


h2opower.
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  #1490  
Old 01-27-2010, 11:34 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Hi Everyone,

Now Everwiser posted this site as to teach everyone more about ionization: HowStuffWorks "Ionization" but note a thunder storm actually has three capacitive zones not just one from the bottom of the cloud to the earth. It also has one from the top of the cloud to the bottom of the cloud and another from the top of the cloud to the earths stratosphere and strikes occur in all of these voltage zones. The ones that take place within the cloud make the thunder that shakes the ground for it is igniting the hydrogen/oxygen mixture the clouds voltage zones are producing. Strikes from the top of the cloud to the stratosphere have a very pink color pretty close to that of hydrogen ionization spectrum does for all of the hydrogen being produced by the cloud floats upwardly. So the next time your in a thunder storm look for these things and note the different sounds of the lightning strikes and what happens after the strikes. For the strikes that take place inside of the cloud produce a earth shaking sound and right after dump a large amount of water on the ground as the hydrogen/oxygen mixture is turned into water and gravity does the rest. Anyway I just thought this would help to better understand some of the processes involved in Stanley Meyer's work.


h2opower.
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  #1491  
Old 01-29-2010, 07:00 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Hello Everyone,

Well, I don't see any questions regarding Stanley Meyer's water fuel injection system patent or any other work of Stanley Meyer's related to making use of water as a source of fuel, so that must mean that everyone that has read my thread is busy working on replicating Stans work . I look forward to seeing everyones designs come to life as per the designers interpretation of how they think it will work best on what ever the designer has in mind to what the device will be connected too. Going from a gasoline ICE to an hydrogen on demand HICE or taking a step back and hooking a WFC set up to a water fuel cell. Since I have no more questions then I believe I have accomplished my mission in bringing Stanley Meyer technology back to life.

Have fun everyone in becoming energy independent, and don't forget to pass on what you have learned to your fellow man.



h2opower.
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  #1492  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:34 AM
mmm_66 mmm_66 is offline
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Maganese Coated Copper Grid

Hi,
I have a question which may or may not be relivent to this thread. In patent number 5,010,869 Stan is talking about a copper grid coated with maganese dioxide. I am having trouble locating this material with the coating. Any leads as to the fabrication of this grid or how it is done ? Thanks in advance for any info or leads

MMM_66
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  #1493  
Old 01-30-2010, 06:08 AM
chasson321 chasson321 is offline
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Maganese Dioxide

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm_66 View Post
Hi,
I have a question which may or may not be relivent to this thread. In patent number 5,010,869 Stan is talking about a copper grid coated with maganese dioxide. I am having trouble locating this material with the coating. Any leads as to the fabrication of this grid or how it is done ? Thanks in advance for any info or leads

MMM_66
Maganese Dioxide is the rust looking material that is inside a typical D cell battery.

YouTube - Get Zinc, Carbon Electrodes and MnO2 from a Lantern Battery
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  #1494  
Old 01-30-2010, 07:48 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm_66 View Post
Hi,
I have a question which may or may not be relevant to this thread. In patent number 5,010,869 Stan is talking about a copper grid coated with manganese dioxide. I am having trouble locating this material with the coating. Any leads as to the fabrication of this grid or how it is done ? Thanks in advance for any info or leads

MMM_66
Hi mmm_66,

No, I also didn't find it, so I went with a 304 SS fine screen mesh in it's place. Digit's has gotten his working, but I don't know of the material he used for the EEC screen mesh grid. Chasson321 thanks for you help as I couldn't answer that one.


h2opower.
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  #1495  
Old 01-30-2010, 09:55 PM
Farside Farside is offline
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Hi all,
I just wanted to say HI. I discovered Stans work last week and just spent the last 48 hours reading this thread (the last 10 pages I'm sorry I coudn't follow - the freedom cuircuit debugging...)

I think I just got the steepest learning curve brain dump in history!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that from the perspective of a newbie with electronics and physics knowledge, your explainations are clear and they make sense.

Please don't let the "noise" defocus you all.

I've spent the past 2 years studying what you are calling the collapse. I keep my login online so you can track me down if you want. Please don't let this issue take away your focus. It goes much deeper than you think.

I noticed you mentioned after you have this technology sorted you plan on investigating the trade towers? JMHO but is there anything positive to gain from that? If I may be so bold as to suggest something more beneficial to mankind? I am thinking of the work of a man called Martin Armstrong (no, I'm not him). I think you would find it fascinating.

Anyway, I would love to join this war and as soon as I have some other prior commitments dealt with then I certainly will. In the meantime, I wish you all the best and I'll be following your progress.

Good luck and God speed.
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  #1496  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:19 PM
itzon itzon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h20power View Post
Originally Posted by mmm_66 View Post
Hi,
I have a question which may or may not be relevant to this thread. In patent number 5,010,869 Stan is talking about a copper grid coated with manganese dioxide. I am having trouble locating this material with the coating. Any leads as to the fabrication of this grid or how it is done ? Thanks in advance for any info or leads

MMM_66 Hi mmm_66,

No, I also didn't find it, so I went with a 304 SS fine screen mesh in it's place. Digit's has gotten his working, but I don't know of the material he used for the EEC screen mesh grid. Chasson321 thanks for you help as I couldn't answer that one.


h2opower.
That patent is not from Stanley Meyer. It is from a company called Zenion Industries.
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  #1497  
Old 01-30-2010, 10:50 PM
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1NRG24Seven 1NRG24Seven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasson321 View Post
Maganese Dioxide is the rust looking material that is inside a typical D cell battery.

YouTube - Get Zinc, Carbon Electrodes and MnO2 from a Lantern Battery
Seems to me this metal could be electroplated to the copper grid. Maybe that is what Stan did.

Good Day!!!...24
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  #1498  
Old 01-30-2010, 11:27 PM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itzon View Post
That patent is not from Stanley Meyer. It is from a company called Zenion Industries.
Hi Itzon,
Yes you are correct that is not Stanley Meyer's patent it is a patent that Stanley Meyer refers too. Now like Edward Grey the most important parts of the patent weren't really talked about very much, IE the electron extraction circuit and Gas Processor. Not too many people know that Stanley Meyer also spoke about using the Gas Processor to replace the catalytic converter, if someone has that patent please post it so everyone can read it, I seem to have lost it. But back to what I was getting at the important parts of the patent where barley talked about. Once I broke away from the hho bandwagon and started to study the Gas Processor understanding science the way I do I knew I have found out how it all works, and that is by Electric Fields and Moving media" YouTube - Lec 9 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 20 coupled with the science of the "Aurora Borealis." That is the core of how to make use of water as a source of fuel. The unique properties of water do the rest, mainly the self ionization of water and it's dielectric properties, but there is more to it that that as the other properties of water are also used.

Now in this video the "Gas Processor" doesn't have air flowing through it or a electron extraction circuit, but an Gas Processor it is. YouTube - Lec 10 | MIT 6.013 Electromagnetics and Applications, Fall 2

I hope that helped some,

h2opower.
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Last edited by h20power; 01-30-2010 at 11:33 PM.
  #1499  
Old 01-31-2010, 01:55 AM
h20power h20power is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farside View Post
Hi all,
I just wanted to say HI. I discovered Stans work last week and just spent the last 48 hours reading this thread (the last 10 pages I'm sorry I couldn't follow - the freedom circuit debugging...)

I think I just got the steepest learning curve brain dump in history!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that from the perspective of a newbie with electronics and physics knowledge, your explanations are clear and they make sense.

Please don't let the "noise" defocus you all.

I've spent the past 2 years studying what you are calling the collapse. I keep my login online so you can track me down if you want. Please don't let this issue take away your focus. It goes much deeper than you think.

I noticed you mentioned after you have this technology sorted you plan on investigating the trade towers? JMHO but is there anything positive to gain from that? If I may be so bold as to suggest something more beneficial to mankind? I am thinking of the work of a man called Martin Armstrong (no, I'm not him). I think you would find it fascinating.

Anyway, I would love to join this war and as soon as I have some other prior commitments dealt with then I certainly will. In the meantime, I wish you all the best and I'll be following your progress.

Good luck and God speed.

Thanks Farside,

I am glade that you found this thread and can see what has been done here. I will try to keep my head up with all of the negativity I get from just about all turns even from people you would expect too know better like Aaron. That last bit about me not wanting him to post on this thread was totally uncalled for. All I ask for everyone to do is look at how the theory of Nitrogen being transformed into nitrous oxide by the Gas Processor is in direct confrontation with the conservation of mass and chemical science. Even the information they game me to read says that is true. Nitrogen in the presence of oxygen will not turn into this atomic nitrogen they speak of, and it says this right in the information they gave me to read. Furthermore the device know as the Gas Gun did not have any nitrogen flowing through the Gas Processor as it was directly connected to the gas processor and the source of water going into the stacked resonant cavities. And we all know that the Gas Gun was to demonstrate the atomic power of the water being tapped into by this technology. Pity none of the tapes of the Gas Gun in operation have found there way into You Tube so everyone could see the Gas Gun doing it's thing. But the point is the Gas Gun produced thermal explosive energy and did so without Nitrogen gas in the system, other than minute amounts dissolved in the water that got released when the water was broken down by the stacked resonant cavities into hydrogen and oxygen.

But if you have any question concerning the technology please feel free to ask, and I will do my best to answer them. And if I can't I am sure others will be able to help answer your questions if you have some. The technology is not all that hard but things have to be done the right way and the controlling circuit is a big part of how that is to be done. Plus I will look up Martin Armstrong and see what it is you want me to see with his work.


h2opower.
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  #1500  
Old 01-31-2010, 02:13 AM
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nitrogen and oxygen

Quote:
Originally Posted by h20power View Post
All I ask for everyone to do is look at how the theory of Nitrogen being transformed into nitrous oxide by the Gas Processor is in direct confrontation with the conservation of mass and chemical science.

Nitrogen in the presence of oxygen will not turn into this atomic nitrogen they speak of,
n2o won't be created in a gas processor that strips the electrons.

Also, atomic nitrogen will be created in the presence of oxygen because
the oxygen is also losing electrons at the same time so the oxygen won't
be able to bind to the nitrogen.
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