Will capitalism survive 'value abundance' (Open Source)?

[jibbguy]

These become self-fulfilling prophecies when enough people are convinced everything is "lost".. and "hopeless".

"So why bother, when it is all hopeless anyway?"

It is the smartest tactic they ever thought of to keep dissent from growing too much to stem.

[dutchdivco]

jibbguy

I don't know if your last post was directed at me, but I am hardly feeling ' all is lost and hopeless'. I differentiate between 'civilisation' this 10,000 y.o. experiment, which I believe IS ultimately, doomed to fail, or collapse. And Humanity, which survived, quite well, for 90,000 years WITHOUT 'civilisation', and, I believe, will survive quite well, after civilisations collapse.

I am sceptical that activism will, in any significant way, change civilisation enough to avoid the collapse; its like trying to hold back progress, or the wave from a tsunami. To my mind, its GOING to happen; its just a matter of when, and the details as to how it happens.

And, ultimately 'we' will be better off. Jim

[dutchdivco]

Bang vs. whimper

While I don't discount the possibility of nuclear annihilation, I think the more likely scenario is a collapse; a collapse of the systems, which we, collectively, depend on for the 'neccesities' of life. (the # of which has grown exponentially, with the development of civilisation). Its not only Food, potable water, air to breath, and shelter from the elements. Now its a financial system, a public safety system, a transportation system, an energy 'grid', an economy (employment), a healthcare system, and, for many, a Gov't 'safety net'. In fact, in addition to these 'grids', or supply chains, we have developed "Institutions", and these Institutions are failing, and are more focused on the survival of the institution, than whats best for society. They are failing, and since they support the supply chains, when one goes, so does the other; Government, Financial Institutions, Educational Institutions, Healthcare Institutions, and the list goes on. All have inherent weaknesses designed into them, and all are desperately fighting the kind of major reforms that would be necessary.ALL of these systems deliver to us at the end of a long, tenous supply chain, and all are interdependent. A collapse of any one, severely impacts the others. In fact, ALL are showing serious signs of 'decay'.

None of these systems was originally designed for their current capacity; all have been cobbled together, and 'band-aids' have been periodically applied, to keep the system functioning.

What will be the triggering event, and when the collapse will occur, I don't pretend to know; thats what keeps it interesting.That it will happen, I have no doubt; I just don't see how we can continue to put band-aids on. Its like plugging holes in the hoover dam; more and more holes and cracks appear, because 'it' wasn't designed to hold back this much 'water'.

And, no one has wanted to go thru the 'pain' of shutting down the system, and doing without, for the time necessary to tear down the old, overextended system and build a new one. And so, the band-aiding continues, and will continue, until the whole thing collapses.

I say this neither with 'Glee', nor with dread and doom; its just the way it is, and it really doesn't 'care' how I feel about it, at all. Jim

[poii]

Occupy as a business model

Here is the second article. Both have got me thinking and looking for ways to improve the ethical outcomes of the system I participate in, and where to put my energy to be most effective. It will be in the back of my mind for some time to come.

This forum is part of that. It boggles the mind to reflect on how much we have all learned here, and how rich we are for the sharing.


'Occupy' as a business model: The emerging open-source civilisation - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

[Savvypro]

I couldn't agree more!
Look at history, we ARE heading for some kind of social collapse, it happens fairly regularly when people are involved.
I like to hope for the best, but it's much much smarter to prepare for the worst...

I don't think Capitalism is the problem either, and it will survive, even thrive in bad conditions. It may be black market capitalism, but it will be there...

Black markets are the only true free market. You take a look at the definition of a free market and you'll find that no economy even one's called free markets, like the US economy, stock markets etc., are free in reality.

The basic concept of supply/demand and trading value - will never go away.
The problems start when people don't take into account human nature. And wrongly assume that the basic concepts are evil. When the reality is that human nature coupled with artificial scarcity and the ability of governments to with hold and keep secrets - results in all the bad things taking place.

On the issue of Facebook, $100 Billion is a joke. Most of the valuations for a lot of these new tech companies are a joke. You basically have inflation in action, with the stock markets.

Take BT (the main telco monopoly here in the UK), the value of just the copper wires in the ground is about £50 billion (near $100 billion). The company is only valued at about £25 billion pounds and generates a hell of a lot more in profit than Facebook makes in revenue. Yet Facebook will be worth 4 times more, and their business hinges on people using their service, then again wasn’t that the case for myspace and the social network it displaced (friendster?). For an American example try: AT&T, it's revenue (the last time I checked) was $60+ billion a year.

Just a little update:

Told you so.

» Wall Street Bankers Secretly Scammed Facebook IPO Buyers

Video at:
U.S. Videos - Yahoo! News

Don't think you can say it any simpler than: Wall street = Fraud.