Bedini SG

[amigo]

In one of my experiments (now it escapes my mind whether I had that "weird" coil or was it a normal one hooked up - should start keeping lab notes, sigh) I used my DC power supply set to 12V as a primary.

I left the motor spinning and walk away from the desk for a bit. Came back and just looked around the desk then gazed up at the voltage indicator on the psu and it showed 16 or so volts. I was thinking what a ... so I unplug the motor and lo and behold the voltage went back to 12V.

It would appear that the motor was feeding back some potential/energy back into the psu, while at the same time charging the secondary battery and spinning pretty fast.

Sorry it's not directly AC related but I figured it might be relevant...

[adam ant]

i wouldnt be comfortable trying the AC experiment myself, as my electrical knowledge is old and rusty. i would be a bit nervous about doing major damage, shocking myself, or who knows what else.

i figured someone would have tried it by now, or at least thought about it.

[Kevin]

Charging batteries

Adam,

Since it is a cold charge there are no fumes generated when charging the batteries with the SG charger....batteries never get even warm.

Aaron, correct me if I am wrong....but I believe the voltage spikes going into the battery are AC, not DC. (the neon light that lights up when it is running is a 120v ac light)

Yes, Shamus, (Kevin hangs his head in shame- ) I am one of those guys that took the schematic, some explanation from Aaron, and some TRV data and just built it. Did not concentrate too much on how it worked...only as much as I need to in order to get the most usable energy for the energy spent.

[amigo]

Kevin,

I think that the spikes are DC (basically PWM) - they are half-wave, rectified by the diode on the collector, no? The NE is before the diode thus it lights up only on AC.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

[Shamus]

@Kevin: I was speaking mainly of the people on the Bedini_SG list who were demanding overunity from the machine without really comprehending what was right in front of their eyes, and Rick's frustration with said people. At any rate, I'm just trying to figure out this stuff too since something seems to be very wrong with my setup. I'm in round 14 of load testing and the load times have been dropping about a 1/2 hour each time.

[Ted Ewert]

It's pulsed DC. The FWBR just gets it going in the right direction.
Neons don't care and will light on anything at their rated voltage.

[Aaron]

sg and free spinning wheel

Hey Kevin,

Ditto to Ted's answer.

Also, another thing to throw into the mix Shamus is that when the circuit is in resonance (you can usually hear and see the wheel speed up really quick like shifting gears), it is fast enough at that point that the "scalar south" between the north faces on magnets are ATTRACTED to the NORTH field on the coil pulse. At that time, the wheel is spinning for FREE! That is a good one to meditate on.

The sg seems to only take power because there is back emf on the on pulse for a small blip of time and that is it.

Before the circuit is in resonance (with rotor), it takes more power to charge an electromagnetic coil against a magnet with an opposing field. But a south field in between the norths actually helps pull that north field out of the coil easier! This is how I see it at least but no matter how it is seen, the wheel spins for free and the charging of the coil has it's own loss but that isn't what powers the wheel.

[adam ant]

thank you for the explanation, but that brings me back to my original question

has anyone ever tried to use wall AC current on the Bedini SG(battery charger version), and if it was possible to use this setup to send the power back to the electric company.

[Kevin]

Thank you!

Thank you Ted and Aaron.

As you know Aaron, once I got the thing functional with two circuits and started having a COP of 1.00+ I just concentrated on tuning it/experimenting to get the best COP I could.

Shamus, Aaron or Ted or ?, may correct me, but if I recall I did NOT start seeing any significant COP of 1+ until AFTER my batteries were conditioned. This takes about 20-30 charge/discharge cycles.

Another thing...I am sure it is because my wheel is not perfectly balanced, and because they are cheap bicycle bearings, but I found that the best RPM for my setup is between 295 and 300.

I can get the RPM up to 900+, but when I do that the ratio of energy expended to energy captured in the charging batteries is not as beneficial COP wise.

Of course, every setup is different.

There are so many factors in tuning the charger-here is a list of just a few of the variables that I constantly played with:

Resistance
RPM
Distance of magnets on wheel from coil
Making sure all the wires from the coil to the different connections were the same length and as straight as possible.
Experimenting with different gauge wire leading to the charging battery
Getting the voltage spikes as clean as possible on the oscilloscope
There is more, but those are the biggies that I can remember right now.



Adam, regarding plugging into AC...that seems like oil and water to me...Aaron can correct me if I am wrong, but the energy "captured" by the SG is not able to be measured in a typical manner and is specifically usable by batteries.


Oh Shamus, btw, I started out using the little gel cell 12 volt batteries from Radio Shack...everything worked fine on those, but I soon changed to full size deep cycle 12 volt batteries for the majority of my testing.

[Shamus]

@adam_ant: Like Kevin said, it probably won't work without doing something to transduce the hole current to an electron current. At any rate, it's certainly possible and people with solar and other more conventional overunity (err, COP > 1.0) systems sell excess power to the Electric Company all the time. If you do follow that course of action, you would do well to have a fake solar array somewhere just in case the Electric Co. comes snooping around. You don't want to mess with those guys.

@Kevin: Is what I have a gel cell? And how did you source your deep cell batteries? I do know that you can get them on the cheap if they're not new (and of course, that would be preferable), I just don't know where to get 'em.

[amigo]

Shamus, that's a gel-cell.

I got mine from a surplus store though it's not 7Ah like yours but only 2.3Ah, for $1.95 each can't go wrong.
Plus the battery seems brand new, plastic case looks pretty clean with just minor scrathes and the two connectors do not appear to have been used what so ever. Naturally I bought half a dozen...

[Shamus]

Ah, heck, that's what I was afraid of... I've been loading it down to 12.00V for each load cycle, which is a sure path to damage. Oh well, live and learn.

[Kevin]

Most of my batteries are generic Walmart deep cycle and/or Marine batteries. I do have a couple car batteries that "died" and were discarded because they would not take a charge from a traditional battery charger.

After a couple dozen cycles on the SG they work like new!

[gehko]

AC Schematic

thank you for the explanation, but that brings me back to my original question

has anyone ever tried to use wall AC current on the Bedini SG(battery charger version), and if it was possible to use this setup to send the power back to the electric company.

I did some fiddling with the AC idea and Shamus's circuit and came up with this circuit. It seems to give off a similar spike, but instead of using the Bedini magnet wheel it uses the ac frequency. At the bottom you can see the 19.7 kV spikes, and the OUT is where you would put the charge battery. I dont know how efficient it is, i just thought i would try the idea on "paper". I havent built it in real life.

[amigo]

I'm not sure that simulation software can give us a real picture of the outcome. I thought that we are dealing here with "unwanted by-products" that most traditional engineers consider as noise and interference and want to surpress and filter out.
Software would most likely ignore it or discard it due to being based on convenitonal methods and beliefs, too?

@adam ant

What did you mean when you said to use wall AC current? Use it as a primary battery replacement, without any conversion to DC or just as a trigger?