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  #1  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:45 PM
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Arrow Battery Secrets by Peter Lindemann

Peter Lindemann's new lecture is finally available.
The Battery Secrets lecture was filmed at the
last Bedini conference in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
earlier this year. It is approved by John Bedini!

This exposes the battery industry's dirty secrets
and much more - MUST SEE details at the link
below so you can get your copy NOW - using
this link supports Energetic Forum: Battery Secrets

Please note that when you get the video, you
must select the video scale options in your video
player for 2.35:1 in order to view it properly.

Sincerely,
A & P Electronic Media

p.s. To get notified about the upcoming
Bedini-Lindemann Energy Conference 2012
go here: http://energeticforum.com/conference
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Last edited by Aaron; 11-28-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:22 PM
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Battery Secrets by Peter Lindemann

Over the last few years with many of our Tesla Charger customers,
a book or other presentation on what the battery chargers do to the
batteries has become the most requested topic out of any that we
have received - across all categories.

For anyone interested in Bedini's battery charging technology, this
video lecture is a must have. It was filmed at the last Bedini conference
and many people that attended who have a lot of experience with
the Bedini circuits said they still learned a lot from this lecture. Many
make comments about "Now it makes sense!"
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:37 AM
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Aaron,
I wasn't at the last conference, so have been waiting for something like this. Thanks! Enjoyed the first conference immensely, but finances forced me to stay home for the second. I will be at the next one if I'm one of the lucky ones to get in on the first come, first served list.

David
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Last edited by Turion; 11-18-2011 at 01:39 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:29 AM
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next Bedini conference

Hi David,

We'll release details on the next conference here:
Bedini-Lindemann 2012 Conference

Anyway, this is an incredible lecture. Many people
have been working on the Bedini circuits for many
years and still have never heard much of what is
in this lecture.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:09 AM
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sad

I feel sad that both of you who i look up to, aren't working in the new paradigm yet. this level of marketing is still the old model. The old system and as much as you might think you are doing good things, as long as you continue to do business in this fashion, you will only be supporting the same ways that get these great inventors killed. Its time to wake up to the idea that your profit margins have no conscious and that the only way to truly make this world a better place is to give this information freely. By seeing the big picture Like Tesla did. Not like JP Morgan. But as long as we continue down these paths, Tesla's true dream of a free energy for a world that is efficient and thriving will never be achievable. Any tool can market but it's great people that open source and can see past the end of their noses. I understand we all need to eat but look at the comments you are already getting. People dont like it in this forum as far as i can tell. You could be remembered for so much more than this cheapened method of making money. I am sure that if you aligned with the movement you are so close to, all you needs would be met. And your great teacher Bedini has done this through open-sourcing. Its time to truly change the world instead of trying to see what you can ring out of it for your, our own selfish egos. Think about it!
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:42 AM
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battery secrets - not free energy

You say: "as long as you continue to do business in this fashion, you will
only be supporting the same ways that get these great inventors killed
"

Here is a bit of a reality check...

The chargers based on this knowledge have been publicly available for
several years now. Ooops... too late. And guess what? This is about
battery charging technology - NOT ABOUT GETTING FREE ENERGY!

Please take your ill-informed rants elsewhere - them and your judgments are
not welcome here. This is for those that respect the fact that some people
invest their own time, money and effort into things in order to make it easier
for others. If you can't respect that, then there is no way I would want to
align myself with the sort of values you feel you are operating with.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:20 PM
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Have you confirmed that the audio is in sync in this video?
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:03 PM
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I should make it clear that me and Aaron have had our differences of opinion on how to do things marketing wise. You can see our out in the open discussion in the: * SPECIAL EVENT * August 4, 2011, 7pm Pacific Time Zone thread.

The reply that follows shouldn't be construed as me siding with Aaron.

....

@graphitebone

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphitebone View Post
I feel sad that both of you who i look up to, aren't working in the new paradigm yet. this level of marketing is still the old model. The old system and as much as you might think you are doing good things, as long as you continue to do business in this fashion, you will only be supporting the same ways that get these great inventors killed. Its time to wake up to the idea that your profit margins have no conscious and that the only way to truly make this world a better place is to give this information freely.
There are lots of free information available now that would and can change the world for the better. Problem is, that the vast majority of people will not do anything with the free information. Perceptions change the moment a monetary value is applied - that's the way things are.

Quote:
By seeing the big picture Like Tesla did. Not like JP Morgan.
I have to ask: what have you been smoking to make you think Tesla was such a saint. Tesla was preoccupied with gaining wealth from his inventions. If he was as you suggested, then why did he not actually give away what he was secretly working on. He had the credibility, fame and influence to get people to take notice, even when Morgan was screwing him financially. (Although if I remember correctly, Tesla did have the legal and contractual grounds to recover what was owed to him - but didn't do anything).

I've covered this topic in another thread (see: What would happen to an Inventor who could solve the energy crises?) so won't do it here again as it's a waste of time. However the short version is that those who want to make their fortune, usually end up taking their secrets to their graves.

I agree that open sourcing the knowledge is the way to go, however I see it as the means to get the info out. When someone really has a proven working device and really wants to get it out to as many people as possible. Because as it stands, the: "I'm going to change the world and become the richest person from this energy device" mind set/way hasn't work out. For some people, it's cost their lives.

I need to make a distinction here about my "open sourcing the knowledge" statement. What I mean is knowledge along the lines of plans and documentation of say working devices. I have no problem with people compiling data and sharing it for a nominal amount, as in the case of the video presentation. It saves me the time, money and effort that would be required to get/compile the same information myself.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2011, 09:41 PM
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battery secrets video in synch

Quote:
Originally Posted by StweenyA View Post
Have you confirmed that the audio is in sync in this video?
It is in sync. However, depending on the computer and ram available,
it can go out of synch after x minutes. That computer should be rebooted,
video opened, and then the time position can be dragged to where it was
out of sync and it will be in synch again. This is a common problem
with windows computers that don't have enough memory and is not a
problem with the video.

The video itself is absolutely in synch.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:56 PM
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battery secrets pdf with charts

In a couple days, we're putting a pdf into the download page
that will have the charts, etc... that are shown in the video.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
It is in sync. However, depending on the computer and ram available,
it can go out of synch after x minutes. That computer should be rebooted,
video opened, and then the time position can be dragged to where it was
out of sync and it will be in synch again. This is a common problem
with windows computers that don't have enough memory and is not a
problem with the video.

The video itself is absolutely in synch.
Good to know. 8GB should be enough, right?
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:42 PM
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video ram and battery secrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by StweenyA View Post
Good to know. 8GB should be enough, right?
Lol, yeah should be plenty.

I only have 1 gig in my laptop and it only rarely goes out of synch on vids
and 2 gig on my desktop and same results.

It is usually when I'm in windows movie maker which uses almost all
resources that it happens.

It is only 259mb and not like a 700+ mb video so I doubt anyone will
have any problems.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:47 PM
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battery secrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savvypro View Post
I agree that open sourcing the knowledge is the way to go, however I see it as the means to get the info out. When someone really has a proven working device and really wants to get it out to as many people as possible. Because as it stands, the: "I'm going to change the world and become the richest person from this energy device" mind set/way hasn't work out. For some people, it's cost their lives.

I need to make a distinction here about my "open sourcing the knowledge" statement. What I mean is knowledge along the lines of plans and documentation of say working devices. I have no problem with people compiling data and sharing it for a nominal amount, as in the case of the video presentation. It saves me the time, money and effort that would be required to get/compile the same information myself.
As I've mentioned to graphitebone, he is misunderstanding what this
video is even about. He thinks that information about a free energy
solution should be open sourced to protect the inventor. This video has
nothing to do with plans, designs or schematics of a free energy machine
so his real argument doesn't even apply to this lecture. I don't think he
actually read the homepage about what the lecture is about because it
in no way, shape or form leads anyone to believe it is about some free
energy device.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:51 PM
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@Marcoz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcoz View Post
If somebody posts something you don't wanna hear you just delete it.
I guess people are right about what they are telling us about you Aaron.
You have become a money monster in stead of a free energy researcher.
Too sad man.
And what do you know Marcoz? Nothing about me, put it that way.

I'm not going to tolerate people calling me names based on their own
stupidity and ignorance.

I'll let you read this response then I'll delete it along with your own
ignorant insults - which have NOTHING to do with the topic of this
thread.

It's too bad that you and a few others have such low self esteem and
poverty consciousness that you judge others that are earning an honest
living.

You can see badtothebone's comment was left, as irrelevant as it is,
because it seems he may actually have misunderstood what this product
is even about - despite the fact that I will do what I want and will not
let other people's opinions run my life.

We The People is nothing but a mouth and is not welcome and you are
moving into his category.
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:24 AM
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Aaron,

Is this different from what is presented in the "battery bible"

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/PES...tery_Bible.pdf

with particular reference to page 433 concerning the actual charge voltage a lead acid battery should sit at?

I guess I am asking if this is actually new material. Just want to differentiate between compiled research, which I have tons of, and fresh material, which is rare.

Andrew M.

P.S. John and Peter frequent this site, how come they do not come talk to us? their fellow friends and researchers?
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:38 AM
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battery secrets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aemilus View Post
Aaron “The chargers based on this knowledge have been publicly available for several years now.”

So if that’s true what’s the point of selling CD’s and tickets to lectures about something that (as you say) is already widely known and has been available for several years? Why aren’t they just selling the damn charger? Where is it? If Peter Lindemann with his sterling “internationally recognized” background has joined forces with the “legendary” John Bedini, it would seem a small matter to raise the needed startup capital for such an obviously profitable improvement of existing technology. I smell a rat....
1. The patents for the chargers have been in public view for years. Many
of the circuits have been available for a long time. Because people can
build circuits based on that information doesn't mean they really understand
what is happening in the battery. Therefore, the point of this downloadable
lecture, which is not a CD, is to show what really
is happening in the battery when conventional or Bedini's methods are used
to charge or rejuvenate them. This is important information for anyone that
has been around long enough to truly appreciate what this is about.
You should actually read what the lecture is about before making such
ridiculous comments
.

2. The chargers have been available at Tesla Chargers | World's Most Efficient, Effective & Advanced Battery Chargers for a
few years. But if you have somehow been confused that this lecture is
about teaching someone how to build a charger, you should actually
read what the lecture is about before making such ridiculous comments.

3. Peter worked with Bedini years ago and brought tremendous funding to
be able to have these chargers be a reality, which they are today. You
should give people some respect and actually take some time to research
the facts before making such ridiculous comments.
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Last edited by Aaron; 11-19-2011 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:58 AM
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battery secrets

Hi Andrew,

There is important info from the battery bible that is in the lecture
but it is not a substitute for this lecture. People cannot get Peter's
experience or perception working with John during the development of these
chargers and how a lot of that information fits in the context of real life
applications.

None of the experience of testing and developing the chargers are in
the battery bible.

The lecture is guaranteed. You could get a copy then decide if it is worth
it or not.

John, Peter and myself are very busy. With the digital products, I usually
put the systems together and make the announcements. Unfortunately,
I have to waste time dealing with timewasters as a result of the one taking
the initiative to post the announcements. Thankfully, you are not one
of them. Your posts are a minority of the ones posted in this thread that
actually communicate to others as human beings. Others are high on their
self-proclaimed altruistic morals while degrading others simultaneously.
I have no time for those hypocrites so forgive me if they are banned while
having no patience for their fake questions that are only here to cause
trouble.

You could always contact John or Peter directly. John isn't involved with
this lecture other than it is an accurate lecture about his technology in
relation to batteries and it was presented at his conference. It was really
Peter's lecture but there really isn't much he could say about it that isn't
in in the video.

Again, anyone is free to buy it and make up their own mind if it was worth
it or not. Many people at the conference said it made a lot of things make
sense to them that they wondered about for years. Maybe some isn't
new but Peter made it make sense to people in a way that they actually
understand. I personally learned a few very important things but that is
irrelevant to anyone else I would imagine.
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Old 11-19-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Hi Andrew,

There is important info from the battery bible that is in the lecture
but it is not a substitute for this lecture. People cannot get Peter's
experience or perception working with John during the development of these
chargers and how a lot of that information fits in the context of real life
applications.

None of the experience of testing and developing the chargers are in
the battery bible.

The lecture is guaranteed. You could get a copy then decide if it is worth
it or not.

John, Peter and myself are very busy. With the digital products, I usually
put the systems together and make the announcements. Unfortunately,
I have to waste time dealing with timewasters as a result of the one taking
the initiative to post the announcements. Thankfully, you are not one
of them. Your posts are a minority of the ones posted in this thread that
actually communicate to others as human beings. Others are high on their
self-proclaimed altruistic morals while degrading others simultaneously.
I have no time for those hypocrites so forgive me if they are banned while
having no patience for their fake questions that are only here to cause
trouble.

You could always contact John or Peter directly. John isn't involved with
this lecture other than it is an accurate lecture about his technology in
relation to batteries and it was presented at his conference. It was really
Peter's lecture but there really isn't much he could say about it that isn't
in in the video.

Again, anyone is free to buy it and make up their own mind if it was worth
it or not. Many people at the conference said it made a lot of things make
sense to them that they wondered about for years. Maybe some isn't
new but Peter made it make sense to people in a way that they actually
understand. I personally learned a few very important things but that is
irrelevant to anyone else I would imagine.
Totally awesome answer. I was just being cautious because resources are limited these days. Thanks for your work.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:05 AM
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Thanks Aaron & Peter

Hi Aaron & Peter,

It was great to finally meet you both at John's shop after the conference.

I bought and downloaded Peter's Battery Secrets lecture, mainly because I was too busy running around at the conference to sit down and listen to all of it at the time. I'm glad I did, because now I can sit and watch it whenever I like.

For me, it solidified what I had already read in the Battery Bible and helped me undertsand more about batteries. After seeing it I now believe I can make better battery chargers based on John's circuits, which I have been replicating for nearly 5 years now.

I think anybody who is working with batteries needs to know this information, otherwise you just won't get the results you are after. I think it was well worth the $27.

And to the naysayers - it comes with a 60 day 100% money back guarantee. Don't worry Aaron, I won't be asking for money back.


John K.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:33 PM
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I watched Peter's conference lecture twice yesterday. I've been building Johns chargers and charging batterys with them for 11 years and thought I have a good handle on the charging process. Peters lecture opened my eyes on a few things. I have a charger running now with Johns HEI circuit
and, after watching the lecture, have a different view in my mind what its doing to the battery. I feel the $27 was a good investment.

Mike Klimesh
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:25 PM
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battery secrets pdf in the making

Nice to meet you too John! And thanks Mike.

Peter is reviewing the vid right now to make sure he
includes all the right charts, etc... for the pdf. Wanted
to get that out yesterday but have been swamped
to the max.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:42 AM
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Thumbs up Battery Secrets PDf available

If you purchased Battery Secrets, please go back to the
download page where you got the video. Directly under
that link is a link to a zip file with a PDF that has large
clear images of all the charts, etc... shown in the lecture.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:59 AM
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Great video Aaron and Peter. Some interesting insights.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:07 AM
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Hi Aaron,

like others already mentioned, I have a few years of experience in pulse charging but I still found Peter's explanations very important and helpful, well worth the money. The only things I can complain about is the marketing method which I don't like and the fact that the video has been converted with a wrong video size format (narrow on the screen).

At some point Peter mentioned that John let's the battery rest for a certain percentage of the pulse cycle period (which most of us probably already know), but too bad he didn't mention the best pulse frequency in order to maximize the unexplainable effect he talks about when continuously cycling the batteries ?!

regards,
Mario
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:07 PM
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@Mario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi Aaron,

like others already mentioned, I have a few years of experience in pulse charging but I still found Peter's explanations very important and helpful, well worth the money. The only things I can complain about is the marketing method which I don't like and the fact that the video has been converted with a wrong video size format (narrow on the screen).

At some point Peter mentioned that John let's the battery rest for a certain percentage of the pulse cycle period (which most of us probably already know), but too bad he didn't mention the best pulse frequency in order to maximize the unexplainable effect he talks about when continuously cycling the batteries ?!

regards,
Mario
Hi Mario,

EDIT: If you watch the video in 2.35:1 scale, it makes it normal.

The marketing method is using the same system for all the rest of our
individual or joint digital products. We give 60% commission on every
referred sale and plenty of people are able to earn a decent part time
income from this. I feel really good about that.

I can't say for sure but I believe it is the frequent cycling itself that is
more important than the pulse frequency itself in order to see the
"anomalous" energy gains. I witnessed quite a few of those tests and
watch those charts being produced all the time. I went to John's shop
really often during those days. I experienced the same kind of gains
when I had tests running non-stop. Take a break for a couple days and
it disappeared.

At any particular pulse frequency, you can still test what you're able
to get out of the battery during constant tests versus taking a break
for a couple days and going back to it.

Peter or John can probably clarify if they have time but this particular
effect has been discussed many times over the years. It was always
about frequent charge/discharge cycles.
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Last edited by Aaron; 11-28-2011 at 12:31 AM.
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  #26  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:58 PM
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Hi Aaron, thanks,

it would actually be great having John or Peter clarify a few things that have been confusing people for quite a long time. John has always said that the direct SG coil output charges the batts with negative energy (which couldn't be used on the front end to power the SG once charged), and that the added cap pulser would convert the output to positive energy, so that the charged battery could be used in a conventional manner to power things (SG included), this I take it that if the cap is discharged say 20 or 24V above the battery so that the battery stays in good shape but positive. So far so good.
But what is the difference between direct coil output charging a battery and a cap pulser charging the battery with a cap that discharges at say 50 or 90V? Is the battery considered charged with neg. energy in this case? Can it be used to power the SG, and if yes why? If it's charged with HV voltage pulses from a cap I would think the battery partially self-charges and would have to be considered negatively charged, even if from a cap, correct?

On top of that in the first EFV video John has stated that it turned out that direct charging (direct coil output) was the way to go. So why even bother with HV cap dumps?
It would greatly help if John or Peter could take the time to clear these things up in detail once and for all.

thanks and best regards,
Mario
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Old 11-23-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
John has always said that the direct SG coil output charges the batts with negative energy (which couldn't be used on the front end to power the SG once charged), and that the added cap pulser would convert the output to positive energy, so that the charged battery could be used in a conventional manner to power things (SG included), this I take it that if the cap is discharged say 20 or 24V above the battery so that the battery stays in good shape but positive. So far so good.

But what is the difference between direct coil output charging a battery and a cap pulser charging the battery with a cap that discharges at say 50 or 90V? Is the battery considered charged with neg. energy in this case?

Can it be used to power the SG, and if yes why? If it's charged with HV voltage pulses from a cap I would think the battery partially self-charges and would have to be considered negatively charged, even if from a cap, correct?

On top of that in the first EFV video John has stated that it turned out that direct charging (direct coil output) was the way to go. So why even bother with HV cap dumps?
It would greatly help if John or Peter could take the time to clear these things up in detail once and for all.

thanks and best regards,
Mario
Hi Mario,

Yes. Putting spikes to cap makes is positive - is called
"forward conversion". Been on Keeleynet pages for over 10 years. However,
charged with spikes CAN run the SG - just not as good. Batts charged
like that are better for running resistive loads.

The battery is not charged with negative energy if you charge cap to
50-90 volts then discharge to the batt. It is then forward or positive
energy.

Charging batt direct from spikes is charging with negative energy.
According to Bearden's theory, the battery is being filled with "holes."
Whether this is the case or not, which there is a high probability that it
is, is that you can put that battery on a conventional charger and it
will not charge up in normal time. The conventional charger has to
fill in the "holes" and once that is done, then the battery can get charged
with the normal conventional forward energy.

Using caps is to allow the batteries to be compatible with conventional
chargers.

If charged with high voltage from caps, it is still forward energy. However,
you can still get interesting gains from using the positive energy and it
doesn't have to be high voltage either. I've had over 1.0 cop from Bedini
chargers using 2 methods. One was with the inverted trigger on the
negative. But the one that showed me the most was with low voltage
but high capacitance cap dumps. I don't mean over 1.0 cop by accounting
for mechanical, I'm talking about what leaves the input battery compared
to what you can get out of the recovery battery.

I was charging up something like up to 180,000 uf at about 2-3 volts
above the 12v battery voltage. I was using 12v 7ah gels. Discharge was
about couple seconds. When letting the recovery battery take those
discharges (from a mechanical copper switch) for at least an hour, I
could disconnect the secondary battery and it would continue to charge
for another 45 minutes to an hour. Bearden says it is from the momentum
of the lead ions. Whatever the case may be, that continuous charge
was real charge that could really power a load. It wasn't just fluffy
charge. It was so real, it powered my scooter down the road to John's
shop when it was close to my work - that was 10 years ago. When doing
resistive load tests measuring joules that left the input battery compared
to what you could get out of the output battery, it was over 1.0 easily.

Now many people say they get this self charging effect but never got
over 1.0 cop. I can't comment because I have no control over what they're
doing or how they're doing it. Anyway, point is there was some gain here
going on and it had nothing to do with negative energy - at least not
from an inductive spike directly itself.

These things have actually been discussed many times over the years
online but the info is just spread all over the place.

Anyway, one of the main points in using cap dumps is to make the
batteries getting charged compatible with conventional chargers.

"Overunity" is easy with the Bedini motors especially if you are doing
the battery swapping and have several on the back. With just 1 on the
back can still get over 1.0 cop.

Let's say your initial battery expends 1000 units of energy and you
recover only 65% on the back battery, which would not be a well built
circuit. But you get 650 units recovered. Swap batteries.

Run the circuit until that 650 units is used up to bring the battery down
to the capacity it was before it received the 650 units. The backside
battery now recovered 65% of that, which is 422.5.

EDITED FOR CLARITY

650 + 422.5 = 1072.5 + our initial 1000 in work = 2072.5 units of work
for only 1000 worth of work invested to begin with,
which is over 1.0 cop without even counting the
mechanical work of the rotor IF a rotor was even used.


The batteries
will off course keep winding down but the amount of work demonstrated
from only the recovery by initially expending 1000 units is more than
1000 units. This can be done with cap dumps or with the spikes.

I don't know why people miss these facts because it is so simple and
right there in front of everyone. This is the same reason a rubber ball
that is 83% efficient dropped from a meter will demonstrate over 8.0 COP
before it comes to a stand still. X joules lifted it to a meter and when
adding up all the joules in each successive bounce upward, it is 8 times
the initial input. There is no such thing as conservation of energy. Just
dissipation each time while establishing a new dipole over and over that
allows new potential to enter the system. My 2 cents anyway.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami


Last edited by Aaron; 11-25-2011 at 07:43 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2011, 03:27 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Thanks for that Aaron, nice explanation.

The other one is that no energy is consumed by the work in a motor, only the losses consume energy. If you put 15 amps into a motor 15 amps come out the other side, only some potential is lost. This can be collected and used to power the next cycle with a small top up equivalent to the loss. So it is the losses we are powering and not the load.

If we pulse a 70% efficient motor with 100w we can recover 70w, now we top up the 30w and pulse the motor again and so on. We are running a motor at 100w for a 30w input and getting 70w of work. COP is 70/30=2.33
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:12 PM
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Mario Mario is offline
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Posts: 405
Hi Aaron,

thanks for your reply. Of course I know what has been on the books and many sites for years, and I also have 5 years of experimenting with all kinds of circuits, be it rotored SG 's or solid state, direct output or cap pulsers who's dump went from the Mhz down to a dump every few seconds, from 300/400V down to a couple volts over the battery, from very big capacities down to very small caps.
I know that the cap converts negative to positive, still a few doubts are there.
For instance, what is the difference of what is happening in the battery if it is pulsed by the coil output spikes as opposed to being pulsed by a small HV cap? I mean I know that the cap discharges positive energy, but as per JB we are supposed to get more energy out of the battery, so isn't this also creating holes in the battery?
Frankly, from experience, I don't know what the point is in discharging a cap say at 90V over the battery, it is extremely inefficient and this gets worse the higher you go in voltage.

The SG circuit is essentially a buck-boost converter and this is why the direct coil output is so much more efficient in terms of conventional electronics as opposed to cap discharges, plus we get the spikes which are supposed to gather additional radiant energy, OR maybe the spikes are not even radiant and only move the ions in the battery and the surplus shows up in the battery if continuously cycled.
I guess the main question is, what is the point of HV cap discharges to a battery if it is so inefficient?

Your battery swap example doesn't sound right to me as in the end (if like you said you don't take into account the mechanical) you're left with less total energy.
Let's say you initially have a battery 1 that contains 3000 units on the front and a batt 2 on the back which is at 1500 units. In the first run you take 1000 from batt one which after the 65% loss go to batt 2 adding 650 units.
Now batt 1 sits at 2000 and batt 2 at 2150.
Now you swap and run the circuit until you have taken 650 units from the now run battery 2 which goes back to 1500. After losses 422.5 go to output batt 1 and add to the 2000 that were in it, resulting in 2422.5 units.

Results: in the beginning we had a total of 3000+1500=4500 units. At the end we have 1500+2422.5=3922.5 units. I wouldn't call this OU as we end up with less energy than we started with, do you agree?

regards,
Mario
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:11 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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My Speculations

Hi Mario, et al,

Thank you all for a considered discussion on these topics. The most important thing to keep in mind, is that we have all been learning as we go.

The terminology of "Negative Energy" and "Positive Energy" was Tom Bearden's first attempt to inform us all that there was a QUALITY DIFFERENCE between these two manifestations of electricity that the meters were saying were identical. This was a gigantic philosophical leap for most people, at the time, but as usual, Tom was right! Whether "Negative Energy" and "Positive Energy" are the best ways to characterize these differences is not the point.

If we simply observe the "facts on the ground" we can come to a reasonable understanding. In the case of the various chargers that John has been testing over the last 10 years, let us say that "Negative Energy" is that quality of electricity that comes from AN INDUCTIVE COLLAPSE. It is produced by a MAGNETIC FIELD in natural free-fall after the current that produced it has been discontinued (open circuit).

Its effect on a battery is unique. In response to the impedance (resistance) in the cells, the inductive collapse will produce an ever rising voltage to overcome it. Once this potential hurdle has been overcome, then it will produce current to complete the discharge. The higher the impedance, the higher the voltage will rise and the less current will be supplied. The lower the impedance, the lower the voltage will rise and the higher the current will be supplied. The response is completely self regulating, and the battery always gets as much energy transferred into it as it can receive, in the shortest period of time.

Let us also say that "Positive Energy" is that quality of electricity that comes from A CAPACITOR DISCHARGE. It is produced by a DIELECTRIC FIELD in natural free-fall after the voltage that produced it has been discontinued (short circuit).

Its effect on the battery is quite different. In response to the impedance in the cells, the capacitive discharge will produce a TIME VARIANT discharge rate, since the voltage cannot rise above its initial value. It is characterized by a current surge with a dropping voltage component. By contrast, the inductive collapse is characterized by a voltage surge with a dropping current component.

What John found, after exhaustive testing, is that both of these methods charge the battery quite well. Personally, I believe, from what I have seen, that the Inductive Collapse methods work a little better for restoring lost capacity in a battery and Capacitor Discharge works a little better for maintaining a battery. In other words, there are trade-offs.

The other thing John found is that the Capacitor Discharge method of charging a battery was universally compatible with other commercial methods, while the Inductive Collapse method was not. Batteries were just fine if they were ALWAYS charged with Inductive Collapse, but their performance was extremely poor if the charging method varied between Inductive Collapse and other commercial methods.

This is the reason why John eventually changed all of his commercial designs over to these universally compatible methods......so people would not blame him for ruining their batteries when they didn't use his chargers.

I hope this discussion of these issues of helpful.

Peter
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