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  #1  
Old 10-29-2011, 12:15 PM
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elias elias is offline
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Arrow E-Cat test was a success?

Hi friends

Our dreams are coming true, this might be the first phase of our dream:
E-Day Thread: Rossis 1 MW E-Cat Plant Tested By First Customer (PESWiki: Customer Satisfied, Sale Made) | E-Cat World

The test conducted in Bologna factory was a success the report says. The implications are profound, and we can have a cold fusion generator at our homes, seems to be the case. But will the inventor open source his technology seems not.

A new Era of freedom has already begun. And I am pretty sure we are going to see some other cool stuff.

Elias
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Old 10-29-2011, 01:58 PM
brenie brenie is offline
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Hello Elias, was'nt that great news!
I have been surpised how little the e-cat has been discussed on this site.
No doubt things will liven up a bit now.
Only problem I see is a possible military involvement, let us hoe i'm wrong.
Yesterday in Bologna was a bl**dy hiding for the nay-sayers.
Best wishes all round to Andrea Rossi.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:23 PM
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Firstly, I'd like to say that when it comes to Free Energy devices I like to keep an open mind and unless I see something that is mechanically or electrically questionable that places doubt on the operation of the device I tend to believe the claims of the inventor. The classic example is Moray's devices which had dozens of people witness the device running electrical loads of several kilowatts and was closely examined by engineers and scientists to see if there were any hidden energy sources or wires connected to an external energy source, which was never the case.

In the case of Rossi I have seen none of this. I first became skeptical of the E-cat when I saw a video of the device which claimed to be able to produce several kilowatts of energy yet the flow of steam coming out of the device was small and weak. His latest demonstration has failed to impress me as well. Based upon what I read from the peswiki article, the large E-cat was connected to a generator to initialise the device yet the generator continued to run even after the device was claimed to be in "self sustaining mode". The steam which was generated by the device was not used to do any useful work to demonstrate that the device was indeed producing the amount of heat (470 kw thermal) that it claimed to be producing. As with previous tests of his device, there were no independent validators to verify that the measurements were correct.

It should be noted the even if the E-cat can produce the amounts of heat Rossi claims the conversion efficiency of the heat to electricity would probably be no better than 30%. For the world's sake I hope I'm wrong on this but from what I've seen so far it looks like I'm not going to be.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:03 AM
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seems to me moray had uranium doped diodes?

About the only devices I believe in are those of tesla since he is after all the designer of the power going to my puter, and very few others.

I think all these resonant coil designs with the exception of those that put e and m in phase that make big power claims are all bogus, and the best we can expect from ecat is almost twice input which is awesome.

Aside from that I believe literally no one because most people do not know how and incorrectly measure their devices in the first place.

The only people I have seen on the net who really know how to properly measure devices to get correct and reliable results is dollard lindemann group.

So I am very skeptical.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:27 AM
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I believe you guys are right to be skeptical, I seen the video with the just boiled
kettle's amount of steam for an input of over 700 watts. There is just something
suspicious about the way it is all presented. Then there is the Nickel thing, it'll
be supply and demand, it's controlled. Basically any metered power provided by
a "company" will be charged at the rate the company thinks the market can
sustain, that is best business practice I believe.

The Ecat if it works will just increase their profits, because the output will just
be fed to the grid.

Just like all the solar power is now. Grid tie solar setups cost the power company
nothing but they sell the power for profit same as all the power, we buy other
peoples solar power from their grid tie setups through the power company for
full cost but they are paid less.

Even if the Ecat works it will only save money or make money for those that
own them everyone else will still pay full price in my opinion.

Will the transmutated copper from nickel be OK for making magnet wire for coils ?
That could be one good thing. We can always use more copper.

Cheers
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:33 PM
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The Ecat if it works will just increase their profits, because the output will just be fed to the grid. Even if the Ecat works it will only save money or make money for those that own them everyone else will still pay full price in my opinion.
Totally agree. I want my own power source at my house.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:55 PM
b4FreeEnergy b4FreeEnergy is offline
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Why always so negative?

Why would he spend so much time and so much money if there is nothing to it?

It this system works we can at least use it for the heating of our houses and get independent of oil
There will be difficulties in using this technology in the beginning but if you see how far we go to be able to burn oil in our houses and how much technology we need for that,
why would this new thing be a problem?

I sure hope it works and wont be put away as so many inventions were put away before.

Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by b4FreeEnergy View Post
Why would he spend so much time and so much money if there is nothing to it?

It this system works we can at least use it for the heating of our houses and get independent of oil
There will be difficulties in using this technology in the beginning but if you see how far we go to be able to burn oil in our houses and how much technology we need for that,
why would this new thing be a problem?

I sure hope it works and wont be put away as so many inventions were put away before.

Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
Well I don't hope it doesn't work. I hope it does work too. But I have concerns.

1. Grid power will be no less expensive.

2. The supply and demand problem with the Nickel.

3. The associated problems with the mining of Nickel.

4. It might not be as efficient as he says.

5. People might say things like everything is OK now because the Ecat will save the world from evil and pollution.

That's just the first five I can think of off the top of my head.

Cheers
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Iotayodi View Post
Totally agree. I want my own power source at my house.
You might like to read this:
HYPERION E-CAT COLD FUSION ROSSI

This is a new article by sterling about some critics:
Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster

I think that eventually we will have some small units for our homes.
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:30 AM
b4FreeEnergy b4FreeEnergy is offline
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@Farmhand

I agree with you but at least this E-cat thing for some reason is not immediately suppressed. There is no coverage yet in any known and big news media so that a lot of people can read about it but it can still happen. At least that would be kind of a break-through if the masses know this kind of energy is possible and can be used.

Pons and Fleishman were made ridiculous for their cold fusion about 20 years ago but it seems now there was more then what they want to us to believe, the experiments they did can be repeated and were repeated. Eugene Mallove of MIT resigned because MIT manipulated the results they published because MIT did see something they rather didnt see because it could mean they would lose the millions of dollars they get from the American tax-payers to investigate hot fusion! Etc. etc.

If I could choose between an E-cat and a little box in my cellar with the size of a refrigerator needing no supplies at all which is just tapping background energy and disconnecting me from the grid completely I would take that of course but it seems till today we do not have that option even though Henri Moray (naming just one) could get kilo-Watts from somewhere already in the beginning of the 1900s and you 'feel' and 'sense' loads of other valid technologies are not used today because they are not allowed to be used.

What does it take to make free energy free? - Maybe its time for some revolution?

Cheers too!
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
Basically any metered power provided by
a "company" will be charged at the rate the company thinks the market can
sustain, that is best business practice I believe.

The Ecat if it works will just increase their profits, because the output will just
be fed to the grid.

Just like all the solar power is now. Grid tie solar setups cost the power company
nothing but they sell the power for profit same as all the power, we buy other
peoples solar power from their grid tie setups through the power company for
full cost but they are paid less.

Even if the Ecat works it will only save money or make money for those that
own them everyone else will still pay full price in my opinion.
That is only true if the public has no options. If the public has access and can afford small individual home units of there own, the power company will try to continue to be $$ competitive enough, so that they keep there market share.

The bigger point in having a cheap Clean energy source is access to energy. There are still many places in the world that have never had reliable electricity sources. I have visited many societies that have no electricity at all! It was not cost effective to spend many millions to bring electricity to those areas. Those area continue to get further behind because this lack of electricity & the associated technologies that can even be life saving.

I for one love the idea that the E-cat (and other technologies) may bring these third world communities. Not to mention the cons/politics involved in insuring a stable flow of oil because of our dependency. Clean is also a big plus.

PS. From what I understand the E-cat uses VERY little nickle.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:03 PM
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Some folks who are wondering what they can do, could do as i did today, and send an email to Associated Press asking if they are going to run with the story. You could even offer to help them research it, if that is what they are doing now. The email address from their website is:

info@ap.org

At the top of the email, i would suggest adding the following (since it is a very general email addy, apparently the only available for the public):

[Please forward to Peter Svensson's Editor, and Mr. Svensson as well ]


Svensson is the AP reporter that was photographed in attendance there in Bologna Friday. I suppose if AP is not going to run a story on it, they wont no matter what, but if they are sitting on the fence and wondering if they should, it could help them decide if they saw that folks know they had sent a reporter.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Roland View Post
That is only true if the public has no options. If the public has access and can afford small individual home units of there own, the power company will try to continue to be $$ competitive enough, so that they keep there market share.

The bigger point in having a cheap Clean energy source is access to energy. There are still many places in the world that have never had reliable electricity sources. I have visited many societies that have no electricity at all! It was not cost effective to spend many millions to bring electricity to those areas. Those area continue to get further behind because this lack of electricity & the associated technologies that can even be life saving.

I for one love the idea that the E-cat (and other technologies) may bring these third world communities. Not to mention the cons/politics involved in insuring a stable flow of oil because of our dependency. Clean is also a big plus.

PS. From what I understand the E-cat uses VERY little nickle.

But the Ecat require's Electrical power to work and pressurized hydrogen and
powdered Nickel, it also requires a steam turbine to make electricity from the
steam produced by the heat, and of course clean water.

It also requires a lot of time to start the reaction, in my opinion we won't see
any viable backyard Ecats. The cost to setup an Ecat with a steam turbine
and generator would be substantial. Pressurized hydrogen can be very
dangerous to use.

One thing is certain I will not be building or buying a steam turbine or an Ecat.

Try a little numbers game and determine the setup cost for the steam turbine
and generator for a 3 Kw system. Then work out how much Nickel powder you
will need for a month and cost then add the cost of the hydrogen for a month
and the input power compared to output power.

Then when the Ecat is working what will you do with any power excess ? If
the produced heat is not used to make steam then electrical power it is lost.

Then there is all the insulation to retain the heat and the chance of explosions.

I don't think many people have actually thought this through. In the real word
application of things there are many hidden costs and problems.

Cheers

P.S. To get the pressurized hydrogen you will need to buy it from a company
on a regular basis and pay rent on the container (vessel) same with the
powdered Nickel it will need to be bought with money on a regular basis from
a for profit company. The whole long term viability is governed by the whims
of companies and fluctuating prices and availability of the consumables.

..
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:33 AM
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I think all the earth nickel minerals and power produced is a civil right and should be devised [shared] and owned equally with all inhabitants of the earth..Lybia did a little of that concept.If we all put in a share we could all power our selves forever. I still like the idea of local hemp for home gasifers personally, you should see the math on that. I am talking about Cannibus for industry not industrial hemp, that's low yield.
Sorry off topic.

For us, i think the importance of the E-Cat is to help substantiate FE science , the genre and pattern of getting this science known, also to help deliver solution's where all FE science can have a protected home.

People should not have to sell their house to demonstrate science. Wont go onto today.

Ash
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:57 AM
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Here a couple of articles quotes,
I can't find the hydrogen use but i seem to remember someone saying a bottle would last over a year on a 5kw unit but i can't confirm it.

"To start up the reactor you have just to turn on a switch. The reactor works with enormous margins of safety, so there is no need of a particular skill. Just follow the instructions. The refueling is every 6 months and will be made by our dealers."


"one kilogram of nickel powder should deliver 10 kW of energy for 10,000 hours. The consumption rate of hydrogen and nickel are 0.1 g of Ni and 0.01 g of H to produce 10 kWh/h"

that is over 400 days
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Roland View Post
Here a couple of articles quotes,
I can't find the hydrogen use but i seem to remember someone saying a bottle would last over a year on a 5kw unit but i can't confirm it.

"To start up the reactor you have just to turn on a switch. The reactor works with enormous margins of safety, so there is no need of a particular skill. Just follow the instructions. The refueling is every 6 months and will be made by our dealers."


"one kilogram of nickel powder should deliver 10 kW of energy for 10,000 hours. The consumption rate of hydrogen and nickel are 0.1 g of Ni and 0.01 g of H to produce 10 kWh/h"

that is over 400 days
Well that does look promising, I was just raising concerns and as always I
hope to corrected if I am wrong, it is difficult to keep up with all the details .

There is still the problem of the supply and demand, if there is suddenly a big
demand for Nickel powder then you can bet you're bottom dollar the price will
not stop going up until the market responds and want's less, that's just how it
works I think.

I we wanted cheaper power from the power company all we need to do is use
less as a whole, which will not happen, but if it could the power companies
would have an excess and be forced to sell it cheap, that is good business.

Good business is what they practice, but it's only good for them not us. If it
works well enough in the home we will find out in about 20 years time
probably, unless there is a revolution against consumerism.

Here's hoping,
Cheers
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:42 AM
b4FreeEnergy b4FreeEnergy is offline
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Dealers

Quote:
"To start up the reactor you have just to turn on a switch. The reactor works with enormous margins of safety, so there is no need of a particular skill. Just follow the instructions. The refueling is every 6 months and will be made by our dealers."

"one kilogram of nickel powder should deliver 10 kW of energy for 10,000 hours. The consumption rate of hydrogen and nickel are 0.1 g of Ni and 0.01 g of H to produce 10 kWh/h"

that is over 400 days
Hi Roland, you said "will be made by our dealers". Does this mean you are involved in the E-cat team? One more important thing of course will be the price of such a device, do you know more?

Those 400 days already sounds good, the central heating boys have to come by once a year too to clean the chimney and tune the oil burner again.

Regards,
B
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Old 11-01-2011, 12:40 PM
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Hi Roland, you said "will be made by our dealers". Does this mean you are involved in the E-cat team? One more important thing of course will be the price of such a device, do you know more?
The sentence was inside quotes, meaning he was just reporting the words of others... Roland is 'just' one among us all in this forum, aiming at self-powering our homes and days...
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:45 PM
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Still nothing in Associated Press (AP) so far today according to their site, but
"Fox News" weighed-in on it (at least in their website version, which does not automatically mean they will mention it on TV):

Cold Fusion Experiment: Major Success Or Complex Hoax? | Fox News
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:46 AM
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Latest article on pesn:
Rossi's E-Cat Victory on Cold Fusion's Emergence Day -- E-Day
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:07 PM
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Bloomberg's EnergyNow Names E-Cat as Week's HotZone - YouTube
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:35 PM
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No cold fusion.

This E-cat is nothing of CNF, it is chemical reactor in which deuterium is as "nuclear" substance used.
To use as in last "show" (really, it could be the last to be), it needs ground wall circling it,
as by dynamite production.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:51 PM
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I'm not sure you understand the ECat claims.

Unlike the earlier systems that have been proved to provide excess energy many times around the world in multiple Peer Reviewed Studies from prestigious Universities... that ARE based on Deuterium (heavy water) in a Palladium lattice...

The ECat is claimed to use Nickle power and hydrogen instead. There are no claims or reports of water being inside the reactor chamber (but an exterior water jacket is used for transferring heat).

There is a "secret sauce"... often called a "catalyst"... however, this is thought by most to actually be a biasing electromagnetic waveform (much like the Energetics of Israel, and the Naval Research Lab systems use). But no one is saying for sure what the catalyst is.

You could be right about it being a "chemical reaction" verses a nuclear one. However, then new laws of Chemistry will also need to be written
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:24 PM
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Nuclear jokes.

What i see what people says, they have nothing really of knowledge about not only todays known nuclear processes, but also this called as CNF.
But don't please be ashamed, this also happened to this "Nobel" swedish scientist, Johansson, which had measured the E-cat.
When You want to know something about CNF, i advise You to read and try to understand
works of Victor Schauberger.
And in more scientifical as philosophical sence, try this:
..
This above is explanation of Victors works and not only.
But plese don't expect, that after reading it, You will find how to build the flying saucer.
Or time machine as it should be called properly.
Enjoy Your time, Friend.
It is getting worser and worser, and only knowledge can get You out of problems.
Do You trust me?
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:43 AM
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There is still the problem of the supply and demand, if there is suddenly a big demand for Nickel powder then you can bet you're bottom dollar the price will not stop going up until the market responds and want's less, that's just how it works I think.
That's exactly correct. Diesel used to be cheap too, until every Tom Dick and Harry started running around in a diesel truck. Big Oil could easily, and quickly buy up the vast majority of nickel mines, and that'd pretty much be the end of that. It'd be another energy source, at their said cost.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:48 AM
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That's exactly correct. Diesel used to be cheap too, until every Tom Dick and Harry started running around in a diesel truck. Big Oil could easily, and quickly buy up the vast majority of nickel mines, and that'd pretty much be the end of that. It'd be another energy source, at their said cost.
Plz don't empower the big oil with that belief. We make them big. They can't do that if we stand up and pull them down, it is enough for them, and for us.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:35 AM
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Exclamation Not CNF.

You can not understand, that E-cat is not CNF reactor or anything bound with "nuclear".
So it needs fuel supply and change.
Whats more, it is dangerous, can only under industrial conditions to be used.
Same as by dynamite production, also by high ground wall surrounded.
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:20 PM
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So now it's "dangerous" too?

Please explain how; yes dynamite is dangerous, less so than the triglycerides that are used to make it.

ECat is either a "fraud". Or it is "legitimate". This is a proper and "good" argument in my opinion; since frankly not enough proof has been given to make it a 100% "sure thing"... and there always is the possibility that the entire affair is DESIGNED as "psy-ops" to discredit LENR... after all, we have seen that before for other technologies (that i may point out, the same media people have pushed).

But to make other claims... Requires a bit more than simple statements.

1) it is "legitimate", but "too dangerous".

2) It is actually a chemical reaction similar to dynamite.

There IS NO accepted chemical theory as to how Nickle and Hydrogen can combine to store or release significant amounts of energy. Nor, Deuterium and Palladium for that matter.

OK, we can discard the claims, or believe them. For instance: The claim that small amounts of beta radiation (from Tritium) is given off inside the reactor (only during operation, with no permanent radioactive waste since it decays quickly and apparently Tritium from my understanding of it, will not permeate the reactor walls.. it is released in large quantities NOW in fission nuclear plants all around the world).
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Old 11-10-2011, 06:48 PM
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Exclamation Deuterium

You are somewhat smarter as anothers.
Nickel is igniter for D2O, but surely with sthg else.
I don't know exactly, cos i abandoned chemistry knowledge long time ago.
It is simply s.it.
And to nuclear part.
They show in old papers that, only 1 chain of they "nuclear" reaction gives off 37 MeV.
Such amount, when we count real, full power to achieve enough heat, would kill instantly anybody 100m from it.
It is even better to go to Fukushima today!
There is much less danger.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:02 PM
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How much NiO would be required?
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