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Old 10-28-2011, 03:09 PM
Dave45 Dave45 is offline
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The electric field of a magnet

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Old 10-28-2011, 03:29 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Hmm, I haven't read your other posts, maybe I should when I get the time. Can you explain your theory about the four fields in a magnet a little better so I can get a grasp of it. If you have already posted it can you provide a link so I can go straight to it as those threads will take a long time to go through. Personally I see it a little different but I want to understand your concept before commenting.
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:33 PM
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Current

Dave,
So what you are saying if we dont allow the current to flow we would not
have any BEMF??
What if you wind a bifilar coil one wire CW and one wire CCW to redirect the
BEMF to the side of the motor or device you are running that can use it to
continue to excell the motor?
Seems like Matt and other where trying something to that effect on another
thread.
But I would like to see more on the differences bettween Magnets and coils,
maybe that difference alone can help.
Mark
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:36 PM
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looking forward to reading you Dave and contributing if i can
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:04 PM
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oh wow
i have a few thoughts as well and we could be in conflict already but i want to reserve any for later after i read some more as i am open to a new thought as i may be wrong!
Martin
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Old 10-28-2011, 05:34 PM
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looking forward to reading you Dave and contributing if i can
I hope I can across as wanting to contribute as well.
Mark
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:46 PM
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Yes I believe this is the dielectric field as seen in my avatar on my youtube channel PaulTheAngel's Channel - YouTube

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Old 10-28-2011, 11:09 PM
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let me know if this is the correct vid you are referring to

Self Assisted Oscillation in a Shorted Coil - Bucking Magnetic Field Oscillation - YouTube
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:40 PM
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:09 AM
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Howdy there Dave.

I remember reading "John Bedini's flux gate notes" -- How he perceived the electric/magnetic feild vortexes.

John Bedinis' Fluxgate notes - 08/25/99

This may be useful, as an idea -- using a magnetic array on the testatica generator.

I know that russell repeatedly says -- the Electric, positive feild is contracting, the Magnetic, negative feild is Expanding. Using gender pairs (Male, Female) (Cold, Heat) (Contracting, Expanding) (Inward from within, Outward from without) (Concentrative, Decentrative) (Charge, Discharge) (Centripital, Centrifugal) (Gravitation, Radiation) (Generation, Disintegration)

When you mentioned the "CW, and CCW" electric field -- I remembered something leedskalinin said about magnetic current.



And also remembered a russell picture.


The inner cone, by way of "north" is also contracting in the EAST direction.

The "West" and South is direction of discharge.

This is very interesting. Russell also called Permanent magnets "Gravity recorders.



That top right image -- where the "Positive" is crosswise to the negative bar -- reminds me of an un-polarized permanent magnet, because the two are balanced.

Switching over to Howard Johnson -- He mapped out the magnetic feilds, and found that the "North" pole, was not "pure north". The North side of the magnet was composed of one "North" spin half, and one "South" spin half.
Of, If you Prefer, CW and CCW.



Then I got to thinking then -- what if you had the "less dominant" sides of each north magnet void each other, in a North Stresspoint?

And then I remembered -- Bedini already did that.

With that -- Look at a different Russell picture. The dead center "color" beam, looks what I would imagine Bedini's "North Stresspoint", or "Scalar Beamer".



For this reason, I would suggest that a pure "N" or pure E field would be contractive.
The E field on a magnet is also contractive -- isn't that where the "cold" comes from? Cold current, would be SE magnetic polarity.

Spark in spiral magnetic field - YouTube

If you watch very carefully -- the spark discharge in the tube needs to be drawn in by the E-field in order to get repelled by the magnetic feild, or be at the "center" of the discharge tube.
The spark gets SMALLER in the E-feild's "line of sight".
The Spark EXPANDS and spirals in the presence of a magnetic component.
Similarly -- I've noticed spark gap discharges make a louder "POP" when there's magnetic quencher in place. Louder pop would be better "Expansion"

When he flips the polarity of the magnet, the less-dominant spins also affect the spark discharge -- there is usually one side that is more expanded and "spiraled" than the other.

Again, I think that the E feild, when "Pure" is a contracting effort -- the Magnetic component the expanding effort. It's when there are "subtle secondary" components to each field, when we have to separate them to individually do work.

Leedskalinin talked about seperating the magnetic components from each other.

I would suggest, that the NE, the CW, contractive side of the magnet E feild is the "Intake" of the "Jet engine" on the magnet. The CCW E-Field, would be the "Exhaust".

Bedini's drawings are pretty good.

Look forward to discussing how we could use the E-field in practice.

Freezing the rodin coil had nifty results. I think it's ferro-electric, but am not sure. Will post pictures after work.

==Romo
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:11 AM
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Sorry once I get started its hard to shut up
And Im normally a quiet person but when you realize whats happening you want to tell everyone
Dave
Also Agree.
When time allows
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:09 AM
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Hmmm, the differences in our explanations are because of the differences in interpretation and belief. Some of what you say I agree with and some not, I don't see it as constructive to knock anything here so I won't.

In my models I usually don't include the spin factor and gravitation because it gets two complicated to imagine although it is there.

I will include some excerpts from a book I am writing based upon my understanding.

"What is the aether? Imagine a ping pong ball

Imagine a ping pong ball with a small bar magnet going through it from equator to equator, now imagine electrically charged poles set at 90 degrees to the magnet poles and gravitational poles set at 90 degrees to the other two. Now imagine that the surface of the ping pong ball has a force field strong enough to keep it apart from the other similar ping pong balls. Just think what a swimming pool full of these ping pong balls sort of floating equidistant from each other and the interactions they would have. Now imagine a wind constantly causing turbulence between them, that's how I see the aether although there may be other forces with poles as yet undiscovered in the ping pong balls too.

Now imagine that two balls manage to get close enough together that the opposite poles can now overcome the repelling force of the surface, be it electrical, magnetic or gravitational. If enough of these come together it may become a photon and still more would make the sub atomic particles we know of. Now imagine what would happen in this sea if we introduce random forces such as electrical charges, magnetism and gravity. Quite a complex model isn't it?

Now imagine someone places a wire through it and runs current through it in pulses and also what would happen if someone coiled that wire. I think that this may be the way the aether interacts with inductors or something like that.

Now you have a picture of my aetheric model. I will introduce some oveunity concepts.

Where is this energy coming from? Something anomalous is happening in the coil.

If we put a voltage across a coil, current flows but the fact that we can put a capacitor in series on the return and charge it up tells you that this energy has not been consumed in the coil. Most of this energy comes out of the coil and is shorted out on the source and converted to heat. What is consumed, by some means, powers a motor. The same thing happens when we pulse a coil but there is a second output known commonly as flyback that cost nothing more to produce than running the motor. If we collect this and add it to what has passed through the coil we find we have more energy than we put in when we use high frequency.

When an electron enters into a wire we create a negatively charged pole. By the Laws of attraction, anything positively charged will be attracted and anything negative will be repelled. When that electron leaves, the wire is for a moment, charged positively by what has been attracted and so the reverse law of attraction happens. It has been proven by experiment that some of this positive charge can be used to charge batteries and capacitors but yet little or no current flows. This is a second source of energy to be found in a pulsed coil. This must not be mistaken for the inductive kickback caused by the magnetic field collapse. Inductive kickback cannot be of a higher potential (voltage) than the power that created it. The higher voltage measured on inductive kickback is actually this second input. It is only momentary spike whereas the inductive kickback lasts a much longer period of time and has current. By creating very short pulses it has been found that these spikes have at least 97% of the energy that charged the coil when charging batteries. If the voltage of the charging battery is higher than the voltage pulsed into the coil, it cannot be the inductive kickback that is charging the battery.

If we now add up all the power in the circuit we see something very important has happened. Assuming very low resistance wire is used in a coil we can have an input of 1 watt and close to 1 watt output to charge a capacitor in series in the return wire. We have an output of almost 1 watt inductive kickback plus a spike which can put almost 1 watt of charge in a battery, plus magnetic energy that can power a motor. 1 input = 4 outputs of near equal magnitudes.

All this is in many areas of physics and is accepted but not included in standard electrical theory.

Now we can theorize and take this a step further. When we put an electron into a wire, we get a separation of charges outside of the wire; we have demonstrated that the positive can be collected. It must be that the negative is there too for us to collect and many have demonstrated devices that claim to do just that.

This input of charge from the environment does not need any conductor or media, it is present in a vacuum and because of this it must be radiant energy.

I think the aether is a sea of both positive and negative charges in equilibrium; the negative charges are the cold electricity you speak of. A wire with an electron creates a dipole and is then able to separate the charges; some of that charge can be collected with a Bedini circuit. The gray tube demonstrates that we can collect it as a ripple as it propagates outward, a possible confirmation of that aetheric sea.

Nothing in this breaks any laws of physics, no new energy is created, we have a second source putting energy in to the circuit and that is the environment.

Resistance only allows the charges to escape the wire and return to the environment as does time.

It seams logical that the greater the surface area the more energy we can collect, this also applies to frequency and potential. If we can find the frequency that will set up a ripple so that the waves are in time with the circuit, we should get an increase in quantity of this charge. If we create a standing wave on the collector we will then get a flow and that flow can be controlled by potential

By creating a charge or dipole we can attract some of these aetheric ping pong balls with their electricl poles into our system and as the dipole is shut off these ping pong balls will shoot back out. If we pass a current through the wire it will cause the attracted poles to line up and move along the wire with the current, as the electrical poles are lined up so will the magnetic ones at 90 degrees to the electrical ones, causing the magnetic field around the wire. The gravitational poles are still random so no gravitational effects are seen.

The same will be true if we create a moving magnetic field, it will drag along the aether with the electrical poles lining up but at 90 degrees to the magnetic field. The positive electrical poles will drag along the electrons in the wire causing current flow. I am leaving gravity out of it at this stage as we will need a second force to bring that into play.

In either case the "free" thing is a force, not energy, at 90 degrees to the force we created and it will not be of the same type as what we created ie magnetic causes electrical and electrical causes magnetic. What gives us the energy is when we make the force do work, in other words when we make the force interact with matter. The free energy is when the force created is switched off and the aether goes back to its normal random interactions but momentarily interacting with matter. The movement caused by creating our force is what we had to pay for. Hopefully this explains what is happening in a Bedini circuit.

Now to make the free energy flow we can do it in two ways, the first is by creating standing waves in the aether by using oscillating circuits and using the potential difference to create a flow in our circuits. The second is actually simpler to do, when we charge a coil we pay to charge it by passing current through it, upon discharge we get more current for free only reduced in power by ohms law. As there is current flow there is a magnetic field created by the alignment of the aether with the discharge being for free. Remember that the only energy consumed was due to ohms law so if we collect the discharge in a capacitor and use it to power the next pulse with a little top up that we have to pay for. It is only the top up, ie losses due to ohms law, we have to pay for and NOT the load or work done by the aether."
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
imagine electrically charged poles set at 90 degrees to the magnet poles and gravitational poles set at 90 degrees to the other two


something like this

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Old 10-29-2011, 02:22 PM
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something like this

Its more like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...aplace.svg.png
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:40 PM
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If we look at the galaxy or electric field I would think the inner probe would have a higher potential than the outer probe

I agree....vibrational state (potential) would be higher ( a good example is the water vortex )
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:02 PM
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I have been thinking of bemf and how to make it forward emf,
If we take a pancake coil and observe the wiring direction, and if the electric field is counter to the applied field we would get this

this is showing both sides of the pancake coil and the counter rotation electric field
Dave, I like the way you think.

If you were to pull those two pancake coils into a conical shape -- you'd have "russell's coils" that he claimed simulated the life/death cycle of electric current. He claimed OU -- I think could be possible if the charge is harvested correctly.

Using that picture above, if you can imagine it in 3-D -- you'd have the circle between russell's two coils, which iron filings were caught in between.
Walter Russell -- Energy Generator Coils

My question -- How would you harvest the charge? Impart it to a dielectric, or divert the potential somewhere else?

I see that Leedskalinin essentially says how to use "potential".



What you are describing with your coils, is to create the potential. Leedskalinin's words, you are "concentrating" the magnets. To divide them, is to establish an asymmetry. To shift them is to use the asymmetry to do useful work.

I haven't figured out how the condensed potential wants to behave in the ice. I figure a good trick would be to combine two I can show it a ground -- which is to establish the asymmetry. Showing that potential how to do work, and re-create that initial potential is something I have not yet wrapped my head around conceptually.

Essentially storing the charge in a capacitor is to store it for later use is my -- because in that instant it was created, it would not have been shown a preferential "conductor" wherein it could do useful work.

Looking forward to seeing some ideas.

==Romo
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:23 PM
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I believe one of the problems with our devices is orientation the magnetic field needs to be perpendicular to the planet, if we look at the TPU it would only work one way, I believe the reason is because one field direction is attracted by our planet and the other is repelled.
When I was freezing coils horizontal coils produced mixed fields whereas vertical coils produced clean fields.

Dave

Have you noticed that your schematics resembles this (sort of )



and the dots maybe well placed capacitors:

capacitor electric field






COHERENCE AT ANY LEVEL IS COHERENCE AT ALL LEVELS.
An orderly arrangement between wave lengths establishes a connection between frequencies and fields. But for this connection to last, it must resonate to all frequencies and fields. This can only be accomplished through the resonate structure of golden mean pathways
. a harmonic cascade effect

Fractal construct
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:40 PM
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Dave, I like the way you think.



What you are describing with your coils, is to create the potential. Leedskalinin's words, you are "concentrating" the magnets. To divide them, is to establish an asymmetry. To shift them is to use the asymmetry to do useful work.



Looking forward to seeing some ideas.

==Romo

I posted this here Harvesting Energy From the Sun Using Crystals

found this while browsing Tesla's patent , see the asymmetry





all the components used in every experiment emits a field and it has a role to play too...so the geometry of the circuit is just as important: Tesla did not draw his schematics at random...i do not believe so coming from the Master of Resonance

COHERENCE AT ANY LEVEL IS COHERENCE AT ALL LEVELS.
An orderly arrangement between wave lengths establishes a connection between frequencies and fields. But for this connection to last, it must resonate to all frequencies and fields. This can only be accomplished through the resonate structure of golden mean pathways
. a harmonic cascade effect


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Old 10-29-2011, 10:49 PM
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Niceeeeeeeeeee


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Old 10-30-2011, 12:18 AM
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I posted this here Harvesting Energy From the Sun Using Crystals

found this while browsing Tesla's patent , see the asymmetry





all the components used in every experiment emits a field and it has a role to play too...so the geometry of the circuit is just as important: Tesla did not draw his schematics at random...i do not believe so coming from the Master of Resonance

COHERENCE AT ANY LEVEL IS COHERENCE AT ALL LEVELS.
An orderly arrangement between wave lengths establishes a connection between frequencies and fields. But for this connection to last, it must resonate to all frequencies and fields. This can only be accomplished through the resonate structure of golden mean pathways
. a harmonic cascade effect


(dave, I'm following up on your experiment with smaller wound coils ande ice tonight. Was there any special details involved in the selection of the selection of wire length, or is this just a "proof of concept"?)

Thank you for posting this again here. I did see it before -- and I am looking again. Seems like each time I review it, I see something new in it -- like I see in russell's drawings.

Noticing that the gas-filled discharge tubes were at the "dead center" where the Electric component would propagate from, drove me to experiment with a small smith coil, and argon flashtubes in disposable cameras.
Those things are darned handy

I found I could make the tube discharge at a lesser voltage (200V less) than the "ionizing plate" or the "flash plate" off the secondary transformer fed it -- by putting the discharge tube along a smith-coil's "cancel zone" in the center.

What I just got "fresh" out of it -- was a little more insight about harmonics. When you have one "Harmonic" chord, it is composed of many subharmonic strings. I play the guitar and violin, so this is pretty easy for me to physically relate.

Allow me to shortly expand on this;

What I see though -- is that the entire patent illustrates a "harmonic" -- in the sense, that when the primary coil in that drawing "fires" it sets several balances into oscilation.

It is plucking a single string, and many other strings vibrate slightly differently from the same primary motion.

If I were to take that "single string" principal, and play it reverse in my imagination -- I would see an opposite effect -- when I play when I play a many strings to produce one "note".


Applying that directly to the patent -- There are many different electric "strings" played, to produce the "note" of (a certain current/voltage level) -- (there's the collecting) -- then directing that at an asymmetry (Dividing). The purpose of this, "shifting" that single note to do work.
What I mean -- is that the same process happens musically.

When we do that with music, we shift between certain series (generally) to elicit an emotion. Within the emotion -- the "meaning" of the music -- contains the musical peice's purpose.

I will say it differently.

What the dominant expressed emotion in each musical piece is, holds purpose/function of the music. (I.E, make you reflect, make you depressed, make you joyful/inspired ETC)

A motor's purpose in its existence is to express rotational force -- that we can see through its design.
This may stray a tad off-topic from the thread's original purpose -- but I find myself wondering, as I write this -- what our purpose of being human is -- and if it is visible through our design. I'm just reflecting here, but what I tend to "do" is according to my strong points.

Interesting, because howard johnson essentially observed that magnets have both North and South poles within each domain -- the "north dominant", or "South Dominant" reflects what we see as "north" or "south" pole. Those magnets have characteristics of both "genders", but serve to function according to their strengths, too.

Attaching this to that flashy new picture -- With your setup, Dave, I see that you are using the "right angle" to collect the Phi Field. When you are testing, I would be very much obliged if I could ask you to record your impulse duration you are using for the "on/off" switching for the magnetic field.
Leedskalinin even says rapidity of time/abruptness in rate of change has much to do with "making more magnets".

Speaking of right angles, Could you use a "magnetic bucking North Stresspoint" or "Scalar stresspoint" (ala bedini) along the rotating shaft, in order to generate a higher voltage in a "testatica" (or wimhurst generator) while it is in rotation?

My girlfriend suggested a month or so ago, putting different magnetic polarities to establish a stronger primary charge difference in the water, along the upper dispensing tubes of the "Lord Kelvin's thunderstorm".

I did not understand why it worked at first -- she's a little more intuitive than me sometimes -- but now I see when the water is in rotation, it can deflect a little bit of the magnetic "spin" along the electric field axis.

Work time,
==Romo
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:55 AM
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It is plucking a single string, and many other strings vibrate slightly differently from the same primary motion.

If I were to take that "single string" principal, and play it reverse in my imagination -- I would see an opposite effect -- when I play when I play a many strings to produce one "note".


Applying that directly to the patent -- There are many different electric "strings" played, to produce the "note" of (a certain current/voltage level) -- (there's the collecting) -- then directing that at an asymmetry (Dividing). The purpose of this, "shifting" that single note to do work.
What I mean -- is that the same process happens musically.

When we do that with music, we shift between certain series (generally) to elicit an emotion. Within the emotion -- the "meaning" of the music -- contains the musical peice's purpose.

exactly....petar113507 , you have a knack of putting into words exactly what i was thinkng...thanks

I'll be transferring your thoughts over at Golden tractate
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:58 PM
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can't wait to read about it when you take this baby for a ride....


ps: won't hurt a little prayer before you start (you are an antenna after all )
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:41 PM
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I wound the ends wrong, have to rewind the ends
Also Iv been thinking, I have the coil wound like the pic on the left, I have an iron ring, Im thinking of putting the coils iside the ring like the pic on the right, I wound the coil on 1/2 in. cpvc so I can put a iron rod through it.

Here's my thoughts on this, once there is a magnetic field setup in the iron there will also be an electric field setup, now we know that as long as the iron is not separated it will continue to carry the magnetic field (Ed's pmh) so that means there will be a permanent electric field too, right I hope so, a free field to pulse
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Coaxial rotors are a pair of helicopter rotors mounted one above the other on concentric shafts, with the same axis of rotation, but that turn in opposite directions (contra-rotation). This configuration is a feature of helicopters produced by the Russian Kamov helicopter design bureau.
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One other benefit arising from a coaxial design include increased payload for the same engine power a tail rotor typically wastes some of the power that would otherwise be devoted to lift and thrust, whereas with a coaxial rotor design, all of the available engine power is devoted to lift and thrust.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:31 PM
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Dave , how is the experiment going
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:28 PM
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Dear Dave,

Swedish Iron Rod

Also for PMH.

==Romo
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:32 PM
petar113507 petar113507 is offline
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You can heat up the rods with propane torch bend it into the shape you want -- let it cool in some kind of beach sand or other good heat-retaining powder.

If you let it cool too fast, the "soft" iron becomes "hard" and becomes like steel -- in that it retains some of its permanent magnetism.

Am trying to figure out how to cast my own iron rods out of magnetite from beach sand.

I need to finish research a paper for school -- my last one, I hope -- but your setup led me to some ideas to explain russell's coils function.

If the geometry of the coils are not correct, the pulse does not amplify or recycle.

Will post with pictures when I can.
Hope you are well,

==Romo
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Old 11-03-2011, 09:01 PM
nueview nueview is offline
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hi all
dave i see the discussion has slowed down so perhaps it is time for me to post my view on all this it may help maybe not.

my supposition is that a magnet does not have two spin directions in the magnetic internal field just one spin this then puts faraday in line with the magnetic and backs up newman and leedskalnin

the field seperation comes from the external view and the external field directions not the internal.

and it is just a minor suposition but the spin for magnetic may not be the same for all materials copper may have an opposite spin for pole direction or a stronger outer reaction field. not sure which yet.

other than this most of the rest seems to follow along with what is presented.
Martin
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Old 11-03-2011, 11:55 PM
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MonsieurM MonsieurM is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by nueview View Post
hi all
dave i see the discussion has slowed down so perhaps it is time for me to post my view on all this it may help maybe not.

my supposition is that a magnet does not have two spin directions in the magnetic internal field just one spin this then puts faraday in line with the magnetic and backs up newman and leedskalnin

the field seperation comes from the external view and the external field directions not the internal.

and it is just a minor suposition but the spin for magnetic may not be the same for all materials copper may have an opposite spin for pole direction or a stronger outer reaction field. not sure which yet.

other than this most of the rest seems to follow along with what is presented.
Martin

your answer lies in Walter Russell's Periodic Table and their position in the sine wave (whether on the positive or the negative side )
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Last edited by MonsieurM; 11-04-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:49 AM
nueview nueview is offline
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MM please explain a bit further.
which elements and they spin how or were is the information found?

dave
sorry i should post a picture but have had no luck.

the single spin makes far more sense and i can explain your pictures would do it better but i think it has to do with hole spin directions or excess valence electrons set up the interactive spin and neutral zone for the outside spin field return and the inside spin field action.

magnetic fields are very particular about which way a charge moves in relationship to them.so i could see an excess electron spinning different from a positive hole valence. which could look like an opposite spin.
Martin

i will try to make a picture about what i am thinking and try to post it for you.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:56 AM
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Romo, you are better knowledgeable than me on Russell, and i think you understand very well what I am seeing...I leave you the honor to answer nueview

nueview, I hope you don't mind...i will add info if necessary
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