Hi all
Have any on of you tried to build a Perendev permanent magnet motor? If you do not know what that is, search for it in youtube or in Main Page - PESWiki
I tried this out. At first I made the rotor with 20 square neo magnets N pole facing outwards aligned in angle specified in the patent. Here's some pictures:




Then I made the outer startor with 26 magnets that are out of phase with the rotor magnets:




Of course when I put them together on a shaft, the rotor did not turn. Then I realized that I should not made the startor out of aluminum, because it creates a drag. Also I did not use any shielding. I had not have the time to perfect this design. Here's a picture of what the magnetic field looks like if the magnets are properly shielded. This releases only one spin from the corner of the magnet and is supposed to not have any drag.

(sorry, picture is not available anymore)

And here's what the field looks like when viewed with a special viewing film:

The rotor then looks like this:


What do you think? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jetijs

Interesting effect...makes like a unipole magnet effect.

The Halbach Array also can cancel the field almost totally on one side and boost it on the other.

i deleted this because of error.

No Bryan,
I am sure, that the polarities are like those I indicated. The magnet is this very same:
1" x 1" x 1/2" Blocks :: Blocks :: Emovendo Magnets & Elements
I buy all my neodymium magnets there. You can also buy this viewing film there if you do not believe me. That 1x1x1/2 inch magnet is facing the 1/2" side up and the film is put above. This magnet is magnetized through thickness. If you dont believe me, I will make a short video tomorrow and upload it to youtube. Do you really think that I would spent money and time to build those discs if the magnet viewing film would show that field like you showed?

hmmm, that is really odd. i have some of that flux film myself, and when i test it on bar magnets it comes out the way i highlighted in your photo.

but then again, the magnets you linked are quite different from a normal bar magnet.

I have tested this on many different magnets, bar magnets, cylinder magnets, no matter neos or ceramic ones, they all give the same result.
I think I just make the video, where I will demonstrate this. First I will use a magnetic pole identifier to show where the poles are on the magnet, and then I will show how the field looks like with the film.
Are you sure about the pole location in your magnets?

OHHHH MAN!!

i am so sorry and i really feel stupid. i went and tested my flux film and i finally realized my error... i was looking at the light areas as the ATTRACTED material... how foolish of me. it is the iron (dark) material that is showing the flux.


i really feel embarrased at such an oversight.

-bryan

Don't be sorry It happens
I will make the video nevertheless as it may be interesting for others who do not have such a viewing film.
Thank's,
Gatis

did you ever get your motor to spin?

No, because I realized my mistake. After carefully going through the patent, I realized, that the magnet spacings on my disc are too close together an also the startor ring must not be made out of aluminum as it creates drag when the magnet passes by. Also at first I figured that aluminum is a good shielding material, because when you take two big aluminum blocks and put them close together and then let a strong magnet fall right between them, the magnet falls a lot slower. At first I thought that this is because aluminum reflects some of the magnetic field back to the magnet thus slowing the fall. But that was not true, the truth is that aluminum is not a shielding material at all. When the magnet passes by the aluminum, it induces eddycurrents in the surface of the aluminum. This creates a counter magnetic field, that slows the falling magnet down. Also in the patent, each magnet had its own shield made out of mumetal or steel. The shield casing was made so as to absorb all the magnet spins at the corners except one, like in this picture:
(sorry, the picture is not available anymore)
That one free spin has no counterfield, like an unipolar magnet.
o this is why I think my motor did not spin. I have already bought cylindrical magnets and made custom steel shielding for each magnet, but did not have the time to try them out
Here you can see a video of the original Perendev motor:
YouTube - Free Energy? See Perendev Motor-Power Motor
I read somewhere on peswiki, that Mr.Perendev already is making 75kW generators for commercial use based on this principe, but no one knows if this really works or not. There might be some truth in it afterall

im glad you brought this up, and i wanted to speculate on your design before, but without any of my own experimentation i didnt want to intrude.

if you look at the real Perendev motor,
the magnets are not facing each other exactly, they are slightly tilted/offset.
if you were to put a SLIGHT tilt on your magnets(or slightly shave an angle into them), i bet you would get the thrust you need.

also, he has his rotor inside of the stator, which would make the rotor fully saturated with the magnetic flux of the stator. you have the plates facing each other, and it seems like it would simply be like two Sumo-wrestlers pushing against each other... no movement.

you can even try this by holding two of those magnets close to each other. if you have them perfectly parallel, there is only a straight, outward push. but if you start to manipulate one of them, you will feel a thrust off to one side.

-bryan

Bryan,
As you can see in the pictures above, the rotor has space for 20 magnets, all facing north pole outwards. But the startor piece has space for 13 magnets on each side. This difference of numbers is to provide that out of phase alignment you said. I'm sure that the problem with my design is the lack of shielding and magnets too close to each other so that their magnetic fields interact with each other. Instead I should use magnets with a correct form of shielding so that the whole magnetic field of a magnet is absorbed by the shield, leaving only one spin free. I will try this sometime, because I have all the parts needed, but now I am concentrating on Mr. Lindemann's attraction motor

ok then, please keep us informed of your progress/success.

AHHHHH I made the same mistake. Thanks makes MUCH more sense now. I can now see the magnet going to the center and the 4 spirals as mentioned by Johnson.

Window of mind now open !

This is for Gary



This photo shows two 40x20x10mm ceramic magnets pressed together with the same poles.



This photo shows the same magnets but now they are sticking together by themselves via NS poles.
And now just for fun look what these magnets show:

I saw different details with the negative... Seems to have strong gauze by the corners of the poles...

It just hit me that we could be using the 'North pole' on the SSG because it is stronger than the south... The magnet does seem stronger darker on the one end. So that is why compasses point north a stronger pole....

His plates are not facing each other those are two halves tha get bolted together to for the rotor. you need to look more closely there and think a bit about what you are looking at.
V

Hello Jetijs,

do you have some flux film pics showing an air coil or iron core coil?

Do the flux lines in the middle of a coil make a bundle too?

Some comparison fotos coil / permanent magnet from the same shape?

Sorry for beeing that curious.

Thanks
magnetO

Interesting... Just one question - have you ever tried to view electro-magnet field (not permanent magnet) with this film? And/or field, that is around wire in witch current is flowing?

@ Technoman
At this Link is a Picture of a Wire and the Magnetic field.
Wissen Magnetmotor.at
I would be intrested, how the Field looks like at different Coils, like bifilar, single wired, or only in one Direction wounded.

And yes, its maybe not a good idea to bring Alu to Magnetic Fields.
I did make a Cd and did glue around it Magnets.
When i let them turn ( the Cd is on a Fan attached) and hold a Alu disc over it, it slows the Motor down to close still standing.
When it both turn at same Speed, i think it doesnt make a lot different,
because i had another Aludisk under the Cd glued.
But if one Part is standing, it slows it totally down.
Not sure, if the Alu-rotor at DC motors is an advantage, or disadvantage, that the Iron is enbedded at Alu.

what happened to the perendev engine? i seen the proto type 2 on utube. they show it spining but dont show the side where the shaft sticks out till after they show the motor slowing down. looks like a nice engine and is there any nwes on this south african inventors or the german company involved in it?

Latest News i heared from it was, that he only wanna deal with the Carindustry, and not sell to Private Persons.

Even when you rent one, the Motor wont be ever yours.
But once 19500€ and then rent is not less.
i guess, hes waiting for the Big Deal from the Industry,
that they can put the Plans into her Safes to surpress something once more.
And Shame at this Guy Mike Brady, what only got $-Eyes, like Dagobert Duck.

jetijs not to good with the computer thing ..i ll give it a whirrlll it is said that alumium eventually takes on magnetic properties not sure at the moment but the composites are the problem something in the mix ,. i too believe brady had or has something, there are/ angle allowances /shielding/ bearing[my problem]i ll try to get some help today to show some pics [might be some help] i started with this project then like ten more and nothing done for achievment but a silent screaming wife ha ha .......apparently brady sold a unit to an investor the investor took it to the lab the lab said they had two more previously from years before, they work to some degree how ever the mags exhaust themselves over time from being in a closed loop . where ever the truth lies i still believe there is somthing here and its possibly with john s circuit by giving a cancelation on a scheduale on the golden ratio effect. i would like to share my pile of efforts to what ever degree of help it may be.i started from this the idea of[probably not new] and hoping not to upset the greats but]here goes bedini /adams/lindemann i know i know i know not the same but shared on the same build ratios syncronized electronically and for the time manually there might be something there. i ll show that pic to, then you will probably start to understand my wife or i mean life. ha ha bart

perendev.pdf

i do that...

but dont work :-( :-( :-(

Great work helioc
Did you shield the magnets? I mean did you put them in a iron cylinder or did you just put them in the plastic frame without any shielding at all? Also are those two big bolts on the stator made out of stainless steel of ordinary iron? If its iron, then that might affect the motor operation.

From what I have understood about this motor is that the magentic shielding is imperative, in conjunction with the right angles and distances.
Steel seems to be the cheapest and best material fot htis purpose. Aluminium has a low magnetic attraction and does not act as a flux deflector.

I seems that when one gets all these components working in unison to the point of a working motor, the effect does not last past 20 minutes. For some reason the flux energy from the repulsion effect, dissipates over time requiring a constant change of permanent magnets. This could be the reason that we have not heard any more details about this motor.

So yes it works, but is not sustainable.

If this is all true then the next plausable step would be to design a stator that is pulsed from an electric field rather than a permanent magnet.

I use the shield in the stator.... in iron,but in the rotor no.....teh rotor and the stator is in plastic, the others elements is on iron.

:-(

I can see that helioc installed shielding around the stator magnets, but the rotor magnets do not have shielding. Shielding plays a very important part in the Perendev PMM, and all of the magnets must be effectively shielded. In the photo (shown below) of the Perendev rotor stack, you can clearly see that the rotor magnets are shielded. If you look closely at the rotor being dropped onto the shaft, you will see crescent shaped undercuts to the left of each magnet, and these cuts have been made to receive additional shielding. The purpose of the crescent shielding is to lessen the repulsive effect of rotor magnets as they approach a stator magnet. In the working video of the Perendev PMM, the crescent shielding had not yet been installed. Even though the device ran quite well, it would probably do even better with the crescents in place.


The rotor magnet offset as used by helioc would appear to be insufficient, and this is another reason why his build is not working. The correct offset, from one rotor to the next, is 1/2 the magnet width, and so the total offset between the 1st and 3rd rotors is a full magnet width. In the photo below, a flat board experiment clearly shows the proper relationship of the rotor and stator magnets to achieve forward propulsion. It should be noted that the upper board is the "rotor" and the lower board is the "stator" in this example. The boards have graph paper glued to their faces, and you can clearly see the magnet installation layout. Ideally, the magnet width equals two graph cell widths, and the spacing between each magnet equals one cell width. This is true for both the rotor and stator. With a curved rotor and stator, if you are looking at the stator from above then its bore spacings will obviously appear wider apart than those of the rotor, but the radial spacings should be the same angle apart for both rotor and stator. It is hard to determine if that is the case in helioc's build, but it is an important factor. I have drawn colored lines across the board to represent alignment of the stator magnets to the rotor magnets. The stator magnets are represented by the yellow circles. The area between the blue lines, and the area between the green lines, depict the current alignment of stator magnets. You can see that the stator magnets are directly aligned with the bottom rotor magnet. The area between the pink lines shows how the relationship changes when the stator magnet alignment is directly in line with the middle rotor magnet. The area between the pink and green line shows the stator in direct alignment with the top rotor magnet. In any one of these three positions, you can see that we have two rotor magnets that are either half on or half off alignment with the stator magnets, and that these are in equilibrium. If that's all we had, then there would be no motion, but the third magnet is in direct repulsion. Due to the angle that the magnets are placed, this direct repulsion results in a forward motion of the board (to the right), and this is true at any one of the 3 possible alignment positions.


To see the "rotor" board in motion, view this video clip:
wayne2 mag board test.avi - Windows Live

Sorry, helioc, I do not know the Portuguese language, but if you have trouble understanding my explanations, you may be able to translate what I have said by using either the Google or Babelfish language translators. I hope this helps you to get your PMM going. It looks like you have spent considerable time putting it together, and much of what you have done is correct. As jetijs mentions, be sure to use non-magnetic stainless steel for any bolts or other metal parts, and also for your through shaft.

Best regards,

Rick

I do that ... :-(

what you suggest?

Help me :-)

@Jetijs,

Pardon me for stepping in here a little bit late. I have just joined this great forum after reading it for months.

I have not built a Perendev motor, but I have build a rotor and stator setup to try to verify the concepts before I poured lots of $$ into a full motor. I have tried to watch every video of the motor and read all the documentation supporting it. As a matter of fact, this was the idea that got me started researching OU phenomenon.

I found lots of videos, but very little scientific study on the concept, with the exception of Tom Bearden who actually tried to explain the physics. In his paper "Permanent Magnetic Motors", he showed some hand drawn charts which explained the concept. So I set out to duplicate and verify it. He showed these diagrams to explain what happens when you angle and shield a cylinder magnet on a rotor:



However this is not the exact result I found experimentally.
I had cut (with great toil) some cylindrical neo magnets at an angle, and cut crescent shields from steel, and mounted them at opposing angles on the rotor and stator. The whole principal is to minimize the magnetic opposition as the magnets approach, and then let the strong force kick in after they hit top dead center.

What I found when I did this, was that there was much less opposition as the magnets approached each other, but just before center, there was a HUGE opposing force, much greater than without the shields. I believe there should be a large peak on that graph before center, and the right side of the graph will also be deformed. I think science will back me up when I say that shields do not eliminate magnetic force, but they REDIRECT it. I wish a had a sexy dynomometer setup where I could plot the forces over distance, but I don't.

And since I tried this I have been searching forums and experimenters' sites to find anyone who has shown experimentally that shielding gives you a NET force in one direction over the entire path of travel. I WANT to find this info so I can continue working on this, but so far, I have not. This and the fact that there has been a 3 year silence from the manufacturers leads me to believe that my instincts were right. You can rearrange the flux lines as much as you want, but when you integrate over the entire path (in whatever dimension you would like), your net is zero.

But keep in mind I'm usually wrong.