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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2007, 06:18 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Use for the Tesla Switch

Dear Peter,
Since you and Bedini have history you might know a thing or two about the 'Tesla Switch' and alike systems. I think these systems might be a good addition for these No-back emf motor designs especially since they can be driven like dc low ohmic induction loads. Not much input is lost in the form of heat and such.

For those who do not know what I am talking about read:
THE TESLA SWITCH
And
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D3.pdf
Start at page 25 (to 36)

So this post is kind of a double post. On the one hand I see the Tesla Switch having huge advantages, but on the other hand, except for the Bedini page there is no real info to be found anywhere about this system... Why? well Peter what is your take on the Tesla Switch, and in case Bedini is reading this, please feel free to jump in.

Thanks!
Steven
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Old 08-23-2007, 07:30 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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4 Battery Switching Circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Dear Peter,
Since you and Bedini have history you might know a thing or two about the 'Tesla Switch' and alike systems. I think these systems might be a good addition for these No-back emf motor designs especially since they can be driven like dc low ohmic induction loads. Not much input is lost in the form of heat and such.

For those who do not know what I am talking about read:
THE TESLA SWITCH
And
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D3.pdf
Start at page 25 (to 36)

So this post is kind of a double post. On the one hand I see the Tesla Switch having huge advantages, but on the other hand, except for the Bedini page there is no real info to be found anywhere about this system... Why? well Peter what is your take on the Tesla Switch, and in case Bedini is reading this, please feel free to jump in.

Thanks!
Steven
Steven,

As can be seen in the first file, the original circuit was developed by Ronald Brandt. The 1983 date of the Brandt circuit pre-dates John's work on this system. Ron's circuits used mechanical contacters as switches, but apparently worked quite well, as long as the contacters lasted. John was the first to adapt this circuit to solid-state switching, using the SG 1524 dual flip-flop functions and bipolar transistors as the switches. So, exactly why this is called the Tesla Switch is beyond me.

John has told me that his "cigar box" unit ran a small electric motor for more than 6 months without discharging the batteries AT ALL. He also told me that the original working model was smashed by a "guest" in his shop who was infuriated by its operation, while John was out of the room. At this point, he decided not to rebuild it. I know John personally, and have no reason to doubt this report.

Obviously, the voltage drops in the transistors and diodes present a CONSTANT loss during operation, not to mention the energy dissipated at the load. Therefore, the system defies all standard explanations and energy use equations. The batteries apparently stay charged and run loads simultaneously for a reason that is not conventional.

Since Ronald Brandt has run a car on this system, and John Bedini has run small motors on miniaturized version, it seems reasonable to assume it is worthy of more study by experimenters.

I have a copy of a lengthy report, written by Eike Mueller, dated September 3, 1984 that discusses tests of this system. Perhaps John would be willing to comment further on this at some point. But maybe he won't. After all, it was John's demonstration of this system at the Tesla Conference in 1984 that precipitated the events that culminated in having his life threatened if he continued his work on it.

I know of no one who has had their life threatened for working on a technology that didn't work!

Peter
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:46 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Hi Peter and thanks for the reply.

Yeah the name Tesla Switch is not too clear. Some seem to say/claim that Tesla used this 4 battery flipping system in his remote controlled boat or something.

Now then I must say that at this point I’m not all that concerned about the over unity effect due to the faster switching and electron thing. But the simplest version alone will be very interesting. And could indeed be used in electric vehicles and the like.

To put it in laymen’s terms:
Normally you run a load to a 'ground' which stays 0v all the time so, it is an infinite sink. But in this situation you replace this ground with a charging battery. So the first 12v battery powers the load until the second battery has reached 6v. So both batteries are now at 6v. But connected in series they are still 12v combined. Now you can discharge that 12v in series batteries AGAIN trough a load to a depleted battery. Until that one also reached 6v. Some test at overunity.com have indicated that you can expect at least 50% more work form the same initial battery charge.


One thing I also find somewhat hart to understand is how does this Tesla Switch battery swapping technique behave when the load converts all the ‘electricity’ to something else like heat. Does that mean the secondary battery will not get a charge at all?

And how does the energy balance look like when we use this battery swapping technique for powering a low ohm, low heat loss (no back emf) motor, which runs a generator?

Now I don’t want to sound greedy (lol) but I would be very interested in that report you say you have. Well any additional info on this system for that matter. So if you want to share it please do. I understand that it probably is not in ‘a digital form’ right now. So instead of typing the whole report over. You could also just take pictures of the pages.

So anyway if you feel like sharing you can just mail them to me (or post them here) It will be very much appreciated.

One thing that always baffles me is the fact that every time things in this field needs to be re-tried. I mean there are so many ‘old’ Ideas like this 'Tesla Switch' floating around and then again except for a few schematics no additional information or replications are to be found. Same with Ecklin stuff and such.

Thanks and kind regards.
Steven
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:09 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hi all
I'm new here, but I already have attempted to make the Tesla switch. At that time I did not know much about radiant energy and Bedini motors as I do now, that's why I did not have much success. My circuit looked like this:
http://www.bildez.lv/bildes/jetijs/s...1187198552.gif
(sorry, this picture is not available anymore)
The batteries were 1.3Ah lead/acid type.
The oscilator is not shown in this circuit. Slodze=Load. I tried a
small car bulb (1 Ohm) as a load. The bulb was powered through a
bridge rectifier (not shown in the circuit)
First I tried the switch at a low frequency, about 10Hz, everything
seemed fine, the transistors got a little warm and the car bulb
lighted up, but not as bright as when in direct connection to a
battery. Then I increased the frequency to about 250Hz. The bulb
brightness remained the same, the transistors felt a little warmer. I
measured 4.3VDc across the bulb and 0.77Amps. But after few hours the
the light of the bulb turned weaker and slowly the amperage across the
bulb dropped too.

Now I know, that there are some problems with this circuit. First of all as Rick Friedrich said, I should have used NPN transistors instead of PNP because PNPs allow current through constantly, and NPN only when the trigger Base is gated. Also the load was too big for these batteries. The load should be such that the batteries are discharged in the c/20 rate. That means that the load should draw only 65mA. This is because a larger current draw would cause heating in the batteries and that is not good. Now I will try out the circuit with the NPN transistors:
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/images/...i_1/468289.jpg
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-137-468299.jpg
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/thumbs/lrg-136-468297.jpg

Maybe it will help someone. Or maybe someone has anything to add?

Edit: I read somewhere that the name "Tesla switch" is due to the fact, that Nikola Tesla gave this information to a friend. Then later this friend of Tesla shared his knowledge with John Bedini. From here this circuit is called a Tesla switch I do not know if that is how it actually happened.

Thanks,
Jetijs

Last edited by Jetijs : 01-19-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:00 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Report on 4 Battery Switcher

Quote:
Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Hi Peter and thanks for the reply.

Now I don’t want to sound greedy (lol) but I would be very interested in that report you say you have. Well any additional info on this system for that matter. So if you want to share it please do. I understand that it probably is not in ‘a digital form’ right now. So instead of typing the whole report over. You could also just take pictures of the pages.

So anyway if you feel like sharing you can just mail them to me (or post them here) It will be very much appreciated.

Thanks and kind regards.
Steven
Steven,

I spoke with John this morning concerning your request for a copy of the Eike Mueller Report. He has no problem with me posting it, but also said he would not be commenting on it in this forum, or anywhere else. He said he agrees with us, that Ron Brandt showed him the circuit and that he doesn't even know why it was called the Tesla Switch.

I'll scan the document into a .pdf file over the weekend and get Aaron to show me how to post it.

Peter
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2007, 09:47 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Many thanks in advance for that document Peter (and John) the info and effort is much appreciated!

I know I am being a pain (lol) but when you ever feel like releasing your old Flux motor or/and generator documentation/notes (you know, the "fluxgate generator thingy") Please let me know!

Many thanks!
Kind regards

Steven
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:27 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Report on 4 Battery Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Many thanks in advance for that document Peter (and John) the info and effort is much appreciated!

I know I am being a pain (lol) but when you ever feel like releasing your old Flux motor or/and generator documentation/notes (you know, the "fluxgate generator thingy") Please let me know!

Many thanks!
Kind regards

Steven
Steven,

I scanned the report and sent it over to Aaron. He will post it in this forum so everyone can download it. Its now in .pdf format. I scanned the file exactly as I have it. The font it was originally printed in is a little hard to read, and the pictures are pretty dark, being a copy of a copy. Some pages are not straight, as I have made no effort to clean it up.

When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS.

That's it. Have fun.

Peter
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:32 AM
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Report on Visit to John Bedini - Report on 4 Battery Switch

Here is the document, it is available at
John Bedini | Radiant Energy

Report on Visit to John Bedini - Report on 4 Battery Switch

Thank you Peter for making this happen!
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:56 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Thanks

Thank you Peter, John and Aaron for making the document public.

Is Eike Mueller still with us? I mean it would be interesting to have him comment on this as well?

Hopefully people will do the experiments. It is not really that hard to build a simple proof of concept relay based switching system. And it would allow for energy ‘recycling’ at the very least. And so provide a way to get better battery efficiency for virtually every application.

I mean you could use it to run a 90% efficient motor and recharge the second battery even if it is only a little, which would normally be send back to the same battery to destroy the dipole. (Correct me if I don’t make sense) So with this ‘recycling’ you can make nearly every motor into an o.u device when you look at the total energy balance. Although I must say that some things like radiated heat and back emf are tricky to include. I mean is radiated head from a bulb ‘lost’ or not? Wouldn’t that mean that a 100% efficient heating element will not put a charge into the second battery at all?

I always find it amazing that such ‘simple’ devices are kind of ‘unheard of’ and untouched by next to all researchers.

Hopefully this information will spark some interest and research again (after like 20+ years?)

Again thanks for the info!
It is much appreciated!

Kind regards
Steven
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2007, 12:20 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes?

Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes?
I happen to get hold of the same document but of better quality than perhaps Peters own original.

Check it out.
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Mueller.pdf

Kind regards,
Steven
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:31 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Need ID to access

Quote:
Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Isn’t it funny how things work out sometimes?
I happen to get hold of the same document but of better quality than perhaps Peters own original.

Check it out.
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Mueller.pdf

Kind regards,
Steven
Steven,

The link doesn't work if you don't have a log-in ID. See if you can download the document into your computer and then have Aaron upload the new version here.

Peter
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:50 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Strange

Strange.
It does work fine here.
Maybe: right mouse click > Save link/target as" might work for your?

Another link:
http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/Mueller.pdf

I must admit that viewing this document online in a web browser does not always work. So downloading it first will do the trick.

If this still does not work for you I can sent it to Aeron. But I don't have his mail address.

Steven
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:45 AM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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Overlapping switching contacts?

Hi Peter.

I have a question about the timing wheel disk (on page 14)
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Overlap.jpg

I can understand that John says 50-50 switching is important. But unless it is some kind of mistake I do not really understand why the top part of the switching disk is in fact overlapping, and the lower part is not?
Any ideas?

Thanks and Kind regards,
Steven
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Old 08-30-2007, 01:57 AM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Circuit Variations.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Hi Peter.

I have a question about the timing wheel disk (on page 14)
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Overlap.jpg

I can understand that John says 50-50 switching is important. But unless it is some kind of mistake I do not really understand why the top part of the switching disk is in fact overlapping, and the lower part is not?
Any ideas?

Thanks and Kind regards,
Steven
Steven,

In any investigation of this type, the best way to approach it is to DECIDE in your own mind what the operating principle of the system is. THEN, see if the information supports your hypothesis. If your hypothesis is correct, the evidence should support it. Such as, John's LAST statement that a 50%-50% switching is necessary for the system to work. If this is taken as the working hypothesis, then the drawing of the mechanical commutator with one side over-lapping and one side not should be interpreted as an error.

If you think that all of the batteries can attain an EQUAL charge condition when the switching is UNEQUAL, then believe whatever you want.

Am I getting through to you?????

Trust yourself! You have the ability to think it through.

Peter
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:58 PM
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Mario Mario is offline
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Not working (yet)

Hi Peter,

I've put a lot of time (and money)in testing the TS, I started with solid state switching, then I tried the relais version and the last one had a rotary switch (6 switches) wich commutated the batteries directly instead of driving transistors like in T-7 on Muellers report.
Well the batteries don't charge, they slowly drop in voltage, depending on the load. One thing that confuses me is that in John's T-1 and other drawings the ground between the two lower batts(3-4) is shorted directly through the switch but also going trough the AC out. I mean how can you have voltage on the bridge rectifier if the switches short the grounds directly?
That's why I made the wiring like T7 wich made more sense in relation to the above, only not having the transistors but mechanical switches. I've tried 20Hz and up to 400Hz the mechanical is 50% duty while with the solid state I tried from really narrow to 50%.
The best results I had by putting a coil on the output wich gave SSG type spikes. but still...
I thought the TS was supposed to have a high charging rate and pretty impressive loading capabilities.
Am I missing something? Suggestions?

best regards,

Mario
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:01 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Not Missing a Thing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Hi Peter,

I've put a lot of time (and money)in testing the TS, I started with solid state switching, then I tried the relais version and the last one had a rotary switch (6 switches) wich commutated the batteries directly instead of driving transistors like in T-7 on Muellers report.
Well the batteries don't charge, they slowly drop in voltage, depending on the load. One thing that confuses me is that in John's T-1 and other drawings the ground between the two lower batts(3-4) is shorted directly through the switch but also going trough the AC out. I mean how can you have voltage on the bridge rectifier if the switches short the grounds directly?
That's why I made the wiring like T7 wich made more sense in relation to the above, only not having the transistors but mechanical switches. I've tried 20Hz and up to 400Hz the mechanical is 50% duty while with the solid state I tried from really narrow to 50%.
The best results I had by putting a coil on the output wich gave SSG type spikes. but still...
I thought the TS was supposed to have a high charging rate and pretty impressive loading capabilities.
Am I missing something? Suggestions?

best regards,

Mario
Dear Mario,

Honestly, I don't think you are missing a thing. You are having the full, frustrating experience of working on a very difficult project. To tell you the truth, I have never seen one of these things work, so I can't help you from a technical point of view.

I do know that when John was working on the SG Pendulum project, he studied the wave shapes the machine generated on the oscilloscope for hours....even days! He never told me what he was looking for, but did tell me he was looking for a specific wave-form.

I also assume that the "Four Battery Switch" must be similar. It is painfully obvious that any operation of the circuit in conventional terms will discharge the batteries. Also, we know that the ONLY energy gain mechanism that is even possibly available in this system is what Tesla refers to as RADIANT ENERGY. So, the proper function of the circuit MUST require:

1) abrupt switching
2) electron current blocking
3) impedance matching and balancing

Exactly how these circuit necessities are accomplished with any given set of components is a NIGHTMARE of testing and tweeking. If I am not mistaken, it took John months to get his little "cigar box unit" operating and stable.

Just so you are clear, every length of wire has an "inductance" and a "capacitance" that is part of the tuning of the system. The gain, voltage drop, and switching speed of the transistors all play a part. Likewise for the diodes. If you are using contactors, the voltage drop and resistance of the contactor plays a role in tuning.

In the end, it might be easier to walk your dog on Mars.

I'm not suggesting you stop working on it, but I am suggesting that success is NOT imminent. John is extremely intuitive about circuit operations. This also suggests that knowledge and logic may be insufficient to ensure success.

Peter

Last edited by Peter Lindemann : 10-02-2007 at 08:09 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:03 AM
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Mario Mario is offline
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Tesla switch

Peter, thanks for your honest answer. John said we need a perfect 50/50% flip flop, that doesn't mean the duty cycle has to be 50% in amplitude though right? Especially if we are to block electron flow but then I don't understand the 50% mechanical pulse width on the T7 rotary switch. T1 one would make more sense since the coil controlled transistors would only allow for very short spikes(more John-like. Is T1 exactly like John's cigar-box or could there be missing parts?

best regards, Mario
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Old 10-03-2007, 04:15 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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And the working model is......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post
Peter, thanks for your honest answer. John said we need a perfect 50/50% flip flop, that doesn't mean the duty cycle has to be 50% in amplitude though right? Especially if we are to block electron flow but then I don't understand the 50% mechanical pulse width on the T7 rotary switch. T1 one would make more sense since the coil controlled transistors would only allow for very short spikes(more John-like. Is T1 exactly like John's cigar-box or could there be missing parts?

best regards, Mario
Mario,

To the best of my knowledge, Figure T-1, in the Eike Mueller Report is the correct schematic. When I got John's permission to reprint the report in this forum, he gave me the final up-dates to the components list. I stated those component changes in Post #7 of this forum, and I will repeat them here.

"When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS."

This is as much as I know.

Good luck,

Peter
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:38 PM
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Thanks Peter, I appreciate your feedback.

all the best,
Mario
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:41 PM
nali2001 nali2001 is offline
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T. Switch

Well in reality it does not matter if the combined voltage will drop in the batteries. I'm sure it will since there are losses. The thing that really matters is, can even 1% of the energy running trough a load be recycled back into the batteries? I'm sure it can and will. I'm testing my own setup soon. And I did some test with a few 22k Mf caps and it does work. So I presume it will also in a battery setup. only difficulty in a battery is that it is hard to 'really' know how much energy it holds. In cap that is much less of a problem.

To me the whole T. Switch idea is "using the energy recycling to power a load longer with the same available energy" And it won't matter if the batteries loose power, as long as they do more work than the rate of discharge.

Kind regards,
Steven
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:08 PM
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Tuning Guide for 4-battery switch?

Peter,

I am very interested in building the 4-battery switch so I really appreciated your insight that it might be easier to "walk your dog on Mars." <grin>

I was wondering since Mr. Bedini did get this to work, if he might provide a tuning guide for his 4-battery switch?

Thank you.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:09 AM
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dyetalon dyetalon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy View Post
Peter,

I am very interested in building the 4-battery switch so I really appreciated your insight that it might be easier to "walk your dog on Mars." <grin>...


Reminds me of this: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/qedynmnu.htm

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2007, 01:05 AM
tommy tommy is offline
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Does anyone know why Mr. Bedini is not willing to discuss his findings on the 4-battery switch?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2007, 09:10 AM
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elias elias is offline
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Batteries are living beings

Hello

I think that Mr Bedini wants us to understand the nature of things by ourselves, He doesn't want to spoon feed us, but wants us to understand.

The way we look at things must change in my mind. We must look at everything as living beings!!! and a form of consciousness. Everything has a meaning and a purpose attached to it, even batteries.

Batteries are delicate providers of electrical current, and we must treat them how they like to be treated. If we push or pull them to make them charge or discharge, this makes them unhappy and exhausts them sooner or later.

But, everything in nature has a vibration so do the batteries. We must find that vibration. The key to battery charging is finding the perfect vibration for the batteries.

One way to find the natural vibration or frequency of things is to pulse them for a moment and watch the reaction of them.

In signals and systems we read that an impulse has all the frequencies in it, and applying it to a system will reveal its system function or more importantly the frequency of vibration it is based upon.

Consider the example of a child's swing as a system, if we don't know at what frequency the swing vibrates then we'll not know when to apply an impulse to the swing to make it vibrate with a higher amplitude. But as we apply an impulse to a swing we can understand the vibration of it by simply observing it.

So I recommend one thing, and I am going to test this later. The trick is to observe the batteries while pulsing them. Hook an oscilloscope to the battery terminals. Charge a small capacitor like 2uF to a high voltage (500-1000v) or a large one like 10,000uF to a about 20v. Experimenting will show that a heavy hammer is needed or a lighter one!!! But I think that it is midpoint somewhere for the best result. Design a simple switching circuit, and apply the capacitor to the battery as abruptly as possible like a hammer hitting a glass window. Right when hitting a battery with an impulse, monitor your scope or make a snapshot of the aftereffect of the impulse. The aftereffect acts like a damped sin-wave or a logarithmic function, the frequency of the sin-wave or the decay time of the logarithmic function is the natural vibration of our living battery. So we must tune our charging circuit to apply the impulses to the battery at the right moment to make it happy, not too fast, or not too slow, there must be a sweet spot so to speak.

This is what I understand about the nature of batteries. Resonance is a key in these systems. So the battery switch must consider this, to make it operate while treating the batteries with care and love and harmony.

Love and Light
Elias

Last edited by elias : 12-07-2007 at 09:16 PM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2007, 07:49 PM
tommy tommy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elias View Post
Hello

I think that Mr Bedini wants us to understand the nature of things by ourselves, He doesn't want to spoon feed us, but wants us to understand.
Elias
I totally agree... gaining understanding through experimentation is essential... no argument there. But my argument is that technological advancement starts with someone learning "A" (in this case it was Tesla) , then someone else (Bedini) learns A from that person and advances the understanding to B, etc. It's an accumulative effort. Tesla learned A, Bedini learned B. It would be nice if we could start at point B instead of point A. That's all I'm trying to say. But all in all, I well respect Mr. Bedini's work.

You make a good point with the resonance of the capacitors and batteries. I appreciate your input.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy View Post
I totally agree... gaining understanding through experimentation is essential... no argument there. But my argument is that technological advancement starts with someone learning "A" (in this case it was Tesla) , then someone else (Bedini) learns A from that person and advances the understanding to B, etc. It's an accumulative effort. Tesla learned A, Bedini learned B. It would be nice if we could start at point B instead of point A. That's all I'm trying to say. But all in all, I well respect Mr. Bedini's work.

You make a good point with the resonance of the capacitors and batteries. I appreciate your input.
All Bedini has told us about these battery pulsing systems, which range from the energizer to this battery switch, is that you must pulse the batteries at the right moment and must not push current to it, charging must be done merely with potential. He has told us nothing about what is this right moment, so one must be clever enough to find out about this right moment. Maybe someday he'll come and tell us exactly what he means.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2007, 01:32 PM
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A battary behavior when being pulsed by a capacitor

Hi

I did this experiment to find out how a 12V battery responds when applying a 10000uF with 18V of voltage to it. This is the wave form around the battery terminals, which decays like a logarithmic function. The decay time is related to the internal impedance of the battery to the battery. Each square is 5msec and 1volts. RC is approximately 2msec here, therefor R = 2msec/10000uF = 0.2 ohms. The impedance of the battery is somewhat related to the moving ions in the battery, which decreases as the ions move.

Elias
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Last edited by elias : 12-08-2007 at 01:41 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 11:14 PM
InTheField InTheField is offline
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
When I spoke to John, he told me that getting the circuit to work is a real pain. The circuit controller must be able to produce a perfect 50%-50% flip-flop. The "cigar box" unit used Ni-Cad batteries, which is why they are labeled as 5 volts (4 x 1.25 volts each). The final working model used the 2N5885 transistor instead of the 2N3055H as listed. The control chip was the SG 3524 instead of the SG 3984 as listed. The system switched slowly, at no more that 20 CPS.
Sorry for the late post to this thread, but I just found out about this forum...

A couple of observations:

1. The 2N3055 would probably work just fine. The 2n5885 is just a slightly beefed-up version of the same thing. In many electronics stores you can find the NTE181, which is considered a "replacement" for either. It is even beefier than the 2N5885. (Regardless, it can be a real pain dealing with the standard TO-3 or similar package when doing these types of circuits)

2. Pollaehn's timer circuit on pg 28 of the Mueller report gives a variable rate of ~6-10 CPS. I can understand why John would remember it as "slow, not more than 20 CPS", if that is the actual setup used.

3. Also, Pollaehn's timer circuit on pg 28 of the Mueller report does a good job of giving the 50-50 pulses.

4. The SG3524 is a lot more common and available than the SG3984, which is hard to get and even considered obsolete by some places. Using the SG3524 circuit in figure T-1 on pg 10 of the Mueller report would definitely require some "tweaking" in my opinion... Also, be careful, that figure shows a connection to pin 3, which is relabeled in the figure as pin 9. The feedback should come from pin 9, not pin 3. Pin 3 is an output that doesn't need to be used for this to work... at least in my dealings with the 3524 chip. Part of my reason for feeling that it would need "tweaking" is that based on the RC constant (including switched in/out components and the variable resistor) being used and the way the frequency is generated in the 3524, that circuit will give anywhere from just under 11 Hz all the way upto 1.3 kHz. Quite a range to find a "sweet spot" in. Though using the PWM helps to create that desired 50-50 pulse mentioned.

Keep learning,

ITF
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 07:23 AM
vzon17 vzon17 is offline
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Tesla switch

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Originally Posted by nali2001 View Post
Well in reality it does not matter if the combined voltage will drop in the batteries. I'm sure it will since there are losses. The thing that really matters is, can even 1% of the energy running trough a load be recycled back into the batteries? I'm sure it can and will. I'm testing my own setup soon. And I did some test with a few 22k Mf caps and it does work. So I presume it will also in a battery setup. only difficulty in a battery is that it is hard to 'really' know how much energy it holds. In cap that is much less of a problem.

To me the whole T. Switch idea is "using the energy recycling to power a load longer with the same available energy" And it won't matter if the batteries loose power, as long as they do more work than the rate of discharge.

Kind regards,
Steven
Maybe this is old info now but I have a PDF file that talks about the telsa switch and it says it needs to be pulsing at least at a 100 hz to be effireient. Also the caps they recommonded was 1000 uf and the circuit HAD to have an inductive load to work. So if anyone want so read this here you go.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 10:09 PM
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Chip Shorter Chip Shorter is offline
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How about using a 4PDT relay? Wire the coil through the N.C. contact on one side and wire the switch. Use the diodes in the circuit though.
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