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  #2791  
Old 06-18-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I just wanted to post some progress on my biggest tesla switch yet.
I started testing today to get the bugs worked out and see what switching rates to use.
Based on the last 4 switch's (And 16 before that) I have pretty much developed a good theory for what to use component wise based on how much power you need. So I'll be publishing that next month some time after I get a slew of tests done on this one.

Basically ran this switch 2 time today and watched the back charging. So far all the batteries have charged as expected.

I discharged them some so I can document a test, and right now I am waiting for the thing to settle out. Start a long run and see what happens.

Anyway here's a teaser for ya YouTube - 1kwTS.MPG

Just wanted to update you guys.

CHeers
Matt


Matt, that is awsome, looking forward to test results. Great Job !

Jeff
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  #2792  
Old 06-19-2010, 09:50 AM
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Nice one Matt
Can you refer us back to the latest diagram you posted.
If I recall you use solid state relays.
It looks like a normal of the rack inverter. You should even get more back if you tap the reactive spikes from the inverter transformer.
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  #2793  
Old 06-19-2010, 12:45 PM
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I'll post a schematic as soon as I am settled on how wired. But basically its just like the ISCC in my signature.
I did a few things different to start out but I am going to have to rearrange a few things.

One thing I have got to come up with is a Hbridge type rectifier. I tried one with the solid state relays but I have not made it work yet. The diodes are killing me. With a High amp load I can lose as much as 2.8 volt of potential just from the bridge rectifier. So the inverter is steady in alarm state. Didn't plan that one. I got few ideas though, I gotta find the right component.
Anyway I gotta switch about every 20 seconds and thats not enough time on these batteries. The last time I had to switch about every 2.5 minutes or so to allow the charge to set in.

Quote:
You should even get more back if you tap the reactive spikes from the inverter transformer.
I am trying to just keep it real simple for now. I want it real easy to build, so anybody can make it work. But I might have to do some additional stuff depending on how it goes.
This is the first time I have used and inverter and battery charger. I know the thing works well if you use a motor and generator. I just gotta match that.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2794  
Old 06-19-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallentin View Post
Thank you , Jeff. I didn't know about this update.

I have a question.
On Brandt 24V system ( Use for the Tesla Switch ) posted by Nvisser I have captured spikes of 340V average on each of the loads.
Is it really possible?
I thought I will post the whole article about Ronald Brandt
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  #2795  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I thought I will post the whole article about Ronald Brandt
Thanks Vissie for posting the RB doc.

So we can see that RB was actually using 6 batteries, rather than the 4 that we are used to seeing. Obviously the TS could also be up-scaled to use any number of batteries as well, depending on the voltage required.
Also interesting is that he was using the TS to drive a 32HP motor and with the right batteries he could achieve >400 miles on one charge.
Even more interesting was that he only got ~100 miles with different batteries because he couldn't get them in resonance.

RB claimed that if you achieve resonance (~900Hz) they batteries last longer. The P. Kelly document that Bit's posted claimed that the Electrodyne Corp. found that the TS worked best between 100Hz and 800Hz and that >800Hz the device was "dangerous".

This begs the question - why is JB using such a low frequency (~2Hz) and not the higher frequencies mentioned in the various documents. Even the Eike Mueller document has reference to 400Hz switching.

In my mind, it makes sense to switch at the resonant frequency of the batteries, or a sub-harmonic of it. Doesn't it?

Also, it is clear from the RB doc that he was using a transformer as a load, however he was still only drawing 24V to run his motor. It is interesting that he would use a transformer AND then rectify the AC back to DC. Why wouldn't he just rectify the AC straight off the -ve terminals of the batteries? Since he would still have 24V anyway. It appears that the transformer would have been a 1:1 transformer, since he was not stepping up (or down) the voltage. IMO, the transformer is key to the success of the TS as well. (JB did hint about it previously).

Thoughts?


John K.
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  #2796  
Old 06-20-2010, 01:13 AM
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Maybe the transformer was just used to isolate the output.
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  #2797  
Old 06-20-2010, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Thanks Vissie for posting the RB doc.

It appears that the transformer would have been a 1:1 transformer, since he was not stepping up (or down) the voltage. IMO, the transformer is key to the success of the TS as well. (JB did hint about it previously).

Thoughts?


John K.
Hey John, passed on your message and will continue to follow up. In the mean while Here is the latest;

This is an inverter that I put together that basically pulls about 330- 500ma @ 12V and an produces 110AC using the right transformer. This is what I have been experimenting with so far. The transformer is the key to success and the ability to drive it with almost no loss is the unlocking of the dead bolt.

Jeff
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  #2798  
Old 06-20-2010, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
This is an inverter that I put together that basically pulls about 330- 500ma @ 12V and an produces 110AC using the right transformer.
110 AC at what kinda amperage? What kinda hertz? (60 hz)

I have read that thing about the resonance 4 times now. How do you find the resonant frequency of a battery?
I think it is perfectly conceivable that battery can act as a capacitor and allow energy to be multiplied like a joule thief with a capacitor. Ring it out for lack of a better word.

I have tried several 24 volt circuits like shown in the RB article. The last one was set up that way but the problem with running it is the center batteries drop while the outside batteries grow. So it is hard to tell what is going where. I like using 8 batteries to come up with 24 volt difference.

I'm going to put a motor on mine tomorrow and run it at 900 hz and see what it does to the batteries. I have never ran that fast. Since Mr John recommended a slower pace I have had pretty good luck, but I originally was looking to go much faster. We'll see.

If anybody knows how to check a battery for a resonant frequency or has some ideas let me know.
This bigger system I have alot more possibilities. Let find this thing and get it going.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2799  
Old 06-20-2010, 04:56 AM
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@Mark, no I think there is more to it than that. You are right in that the transformer inductively isolates the circuit, but I think the collapsing magnetic field combined with the high speed switching is drawing in energy from the environment.

@Bit's. Thanks, I got a reply already.
Nice design on the inverter. I hope the testing is going well. A few Q's and obbos:
Is the input DC or AC? The two diodes after the input (D1 & D2) and C3 imply an AC input so I'm guessing you are using the AC output of your TS as the inverter input?
I like how you are driving the power trannys (MJL21194?) with the driver trannys (2N2222 or BD140?). Is the reason you parallel 3 power trannys to handle the load or to lower the losses?
The output (J1) has a "+" and "-" sign. Is this a typo as the way I see it the output is AC?

@Matt, I would advise you start off at ~400Hz first before going to ~900Hz to be safe, just in case. As for finding the resonant frequency (which is somewhere between 1-6Mhz) you'll be searching for a sub-harmonic. One way to see if you have it is to make a sniffer coil and connect it to a scope. What you are looking for is a ringing wave, the longer and stronger the ring, the closer to the sub-harmonic.
I made a sniffer coil by using the coil that can be found in the turntable motor of a microwave oven. You pass the cable going to the battery terminal through the center of the coil and orientate the coil at 90% to the cable.
I've attached a document I made up that theoretically should be the resonant frequencies of a lead-acid battery. Use it as a guide but don't hang your hat on it. Note that there are sub-harmonic frequencies just near the 400 and 800Hz marks.

I guess in answer to your Q to Bit's about what frequency his inverter runs at, it would depend on how he has the PIC programmed. I'm guessing he's running it at 60Hz.

Just my thoughts....


John K.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Resonant Freq Calc for LABs.pdf (8.3 KB, 106 views)
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  #2800  
Old 06-20-2010, 01:27 PM
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I'll take a look at it. Do you have the specs (or a guess) or wire type on that coil. The dumps closed today so I am fresh out of junk microwaves. LOL.

@Bytes
What kinda transformer are you using? I wanna take a look at driving one also.

Matt
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  #2801  
Old 06-20-2010, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I'll take a look at it. Do you have the specs (or a guess) or wire type on that coil. The dumps closed today so I am fresh out of junk microwaves. LOL.

@Bytes
What kinda transformer are you using? I wanna take a look at driving one also.

Matt
@John, @Matt, here is the parts list;


1n4001-Q1 1n4001
1n4001-Q3 1n4001
C1 0.33uf
C2 0.1uf
C3 35,000uf 35V
Cap-Q1 1.0uf
Cap-Q3 1.0uf
D1 1N5408
D2 1N5408
D3 STPS8H100D
D12 1N5408
DB9
J1
J2
J3
LED1 Yellow
LED2 Yellow
Q1 MJL21194
Q2 MJL21194
Q3 MJL21194
Q4 MJL21194
Q5 MJL21194
Q6 MJL21194
Q7 MJL21194
Q8 MJL21194
R2 10k 1/2 Watt
R3 10k 1/4 Watt
R4 22k 1/4 Watt
R5 330R 1/4 Watt
R6 330R 1/4 Watt
SW1 Reset E28
T1 273-1365A (Radio Shack)
U1 PICAXE-18X
U3 LM7805
U-Q1 H11d1
U-Q3 H11d1
Z2 1N4744A

The output is AC so disregard the + - (carry over from other designs)

The input is 12V only AC or DC.

Add or Remove MJL's Q5,Q6,Q7,Q8 for increase or decrease in power rating.

The transformer noted here is 0.45A, so you'll need to subsitute with others as necessary.

Here is the code for the chip;
Main:

high 7
pause 10
low 7

high 6
pause 10
low 6


goto Main

Adjusting the delay down increases freq's.

Enjoy,

Jeff
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  #2802  
Old 06-20-2010, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I'll take a look at it. Do you have the specs (or a guess) or wire type on that coil. The dumps closed today so I am fresh out of junk microwaves. LOL.

@Bytes
What kinda transformer are you using? I wanna take a look at driving one also.

Matt
Matt, at a guess it's probably 150 turns of very fine wire in a 2" donut form. I don't have one in front of me (traveling interstate ATM).


John K.
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  #2803  
Old 06-20-2010, 10:56 PM
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Thanks Bytes
Thanks John.

I gotta replace some switch's in the morning. I was trying to run real fast with FREQOUT command and exceeded the switching rate of the relays. 10k

I didn't even get fireworks just some small snap crackle pops for 200+ dollers.

Its hard learning the hard way.

One thing I did notice on a 4 hour test at 800hz through motor is the next to no current but the motor still runs pretty strong. At 50hz I was pulling a 5 amp load. At 800hz I was pulling almost 2 amps and the motor seemed to be as strong with a finger test. Its not great science but there is something there.

I am going to run the inverter the same way tomorrow and see how big of a load I can pull while switching at higher rates.

I am going to put me a coil together and start checking the batteries, see what I can see.

Also I was wondering if there was any clue as to what kind of battery SPECS Brandt was running. I haven't seen it but maybe I missed it

Cheers
Matt
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  #2804  
Old 06-21-2010, 05:03 PM
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Maybe they where SAFT made NiCd-s?

=2c
Stevan C.
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  #2805  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:17 PM
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Whats an SAFT?? I don't think NiCads are that old. But maybe they are. But its hard to find big nicads so I don't know. I know Bedini used them when ever Mueller published that paper.

@Bytes
If your around. Were you driving that transformer before just off of the switch output?
I am wondering if that possible. I need to step my voltage up and I can either do it after the battery or before the load. So I was just wondering if you can drive a transformer that way or if you got to have other components.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2806  
Old 06-21-2010, 09:44 PM
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My thought on Battery Freq. and TS

Hi guys,

I ‘re-discovered’ this thread a few weeks ago and was shocked to see how much had gone on in here since nali2000 started it so long ago! I was watching it then when it began but got distracted by ‘life’ and didn’t check back in till just a few weeks ago!! In the meantime I’ve been trying to ‘cram’ to get caught up with all that you have been doing! Whew, what a task that has been!

I am very impressed with the level of work you all have contributed and wanted to congratulate you all on the great spirit of cooperation that I’ve seen here. It’s not too often that I’ve seen it last for so long in some of these threads, so congrats!

As I’ve been interested in the TS for a long time and really would like to succeed in replicating one myself, I thought I’d share my thoughts, observations and the direction that I am going to be pursuing with my own build to see if you can concur or offer your critique of my ‘theories’.

During my ‘cram’ time these last few weeks I was struggling to get a grasp on the theory of operation of this circuit and, like you, have been trying to ‘decode’ the statements made by Mr. B. in re how this thing works. As I was reading a post by Idissing (#2083 – THANKS!!!) from back in early Feb. talking about the operation of the series switching transistor and the subsequent waveform detected there across the CE legs I had an ‘AHA’ moment! Bear with me as I try to explain…

The statement has almost always been put forward that the load on a TS MUST be inductive, and that the circuit is simple but the tuning is the hard part, right? That says to me “Resonant TANK” with touchy impedance matching! If the Load is inductive and the batteries are capacitive and inductive then we should be able to tune it into resonant operation and thus get the power output amplification afforded by that scenario. The hard part of achieving this, as I see it, has been the variable/unbalanced impedance in the batteries, which is perhaps why Mr. B. wanted everybody to pursue the slow charging type switching in the beginning to help balance out their batteries and reduce this dampening effect on the ability of the TS to resonate properly. Remember Mr. B said that he ‘started out’ slow so he could see what was going on in there… he did NOT say that he always kept it that slow to my recollection.

The batteries all eventually reach a charging plateau and level off in the charge that they receive in this ‘slow charging’ fashion but do not produce the OU characteristics that we are expecting in this circuit, right? Why is that? Well, perhaps it is at this point that they all have fairly matched impedance, and NOW we need to switch our ‘switching’ to get the whole circuit in resonant mode. Now the question remains is what freq the Batts will ‘like’ to resonate at with the particular inductive load we have on it?

If the (hand-drawn) waveform that Mr. B gave us is an indicator of what to look for and ‘chase’ then it is probably a key or clue to the understanding of the TS operation. That particular waveform occurs in the series (CE in transistor version) switching legs between 2 batteries, right Leroy? It exhibits a positive spike and lower hump initially and then devolves into a larger negative spike with an almost identical shape (but larger and inverted). If this wave form is happening by turning ‘ON’ that transistor and the resulting waveform occurs as the batteries ‘react’ to the switch… wouldn’t this be the batteries telling us what frequency they ‘like’ the best or where their natural resonant frequency lies? Wasn’t that waveform in the range of 20 – 40 c/uSec?

Furthermore, Bits got more success recently when he changed his switching timing on the picaxe to smaller impulses/delays AND doing a FULL CYCLE of all 4(or 6?) switches before ‘resting’ which seems to substantiate this theory slightly (am I correct here Bits? Wasn’t that the 6 transistor circuit you were running at the higher ‘frequency’?).

It seems to me that the hard part of this circuit as an analog or digital version is completely different than what would be faced with a coil and/or mechanical switch (matching impedance and loads to resonate). With the analog and digital versions we will have to ‘simulate’ how a resonant coil would react in a tank by providing the switches to give the right ‘kicks’ at the right time to keep the circuit in resonance and building a standing potential wave between the batts. The ‘kick’ being that negative spike reaction of the batteries which is larger albeit inverted (negative? or radiant?) than the input spike. And thus all of the switching component characteristics would definitely be a factor of consideration (speed, current handling, etc.) as well as the sequencing.

Once the batteries' impedance are closely matched, my thoughts are that the parallel switching timing should be related to the final sine-wave that we would want at the outputs, while the series switching timing would be a subset of that timing related to the batteries reaction wave that Mr. B drew out for us. In other words there would be a very short delay between switching “ON” the series transistor and switching “ON” the parallel one(s), and that the on time of the parallel switch(es) would be longer before switching to the rest position and then reversing the switch. This is hard to describe in words so you can see a rough sketch in the attachment below.

I am thinking (to be confirmed by building/testing one of these) that we’ve been focused on obtaining BATTERY CHARGING instead of obtaining resonant AC OUTPUT and that this is backwards. We should get the best AC OUTPUT possible first (with good strong resonating oscillations) and then the battery charging will happen as a byproduct of the circuit resonating properly or we could always switch back to ‘slow charging’ mode if ever needed.

I don't know but perhaps all of this has been obvious to some of you guys, or is completely WAY off base. But I do hope to either prove or disprove these ideas on the bench soon. (@ Bits: Do you have a circuit up here for the 6 transistor version you were using? I’d like to give the picaxe a go.) I’m not versed in the component side of electronics or EE and will have to rely heavily on you guys that are, but with my experience working with Acoustic (Sound) waves which seem to have much in common with electrical ones, and a little electronics experience I hope to (eventually) succeed. Just gotta figure out how to work with ‘em (waves) in circuits as opposed to in the air (eg. how to tune a circuit as opposed to tuning a room)!! I’ve seen a room do some incredible ‘natural amplification’ at certain resonant frequencies and I’d sure like to be able to do that electrically, though usually I'm trying to kill 'em in a room!!

Anyway, I would highly value all of your thoughts on the above, as you are all WAY ahead of me in this and as Mr. B. said… “Brilliant Minds”!!!! I hope in at least some small way to add value to this endeavor and, of course, will post any results whether good or bad as soon as I get them! I’ll be a little slow getting ramped up for this as I currently only have 1 day a week at home, but will continue to keep plodding forward toward success!

Thanks again, to all of you, for all that you have contributed to my understanding of these things and all of the prior work that you have done and shared here!

groundhog!
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File Type: jpg TeslaSwitch_Waves1.jpg (13.2 KB, 77 views)
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  #2807  
Old 06-21-2010, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
@Bytes
If your around. Were you driving that transformer before just off of the switch output?

Cheers
Matt
@Matt, you know I am always around. The transformer is being driven just of of the inverter, and the inverter is being driven right from a 12V batt on the charge side.

Does this help?

Jeff
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  #2808  
Old 06-21-2010, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundhog View Post
ideas on the bench soon. (@ Bits: Do you have a circuit up here for the 6 transistor version you were using? I’d like to give the picaxe a go.)

groundhog!
Forget the 6 tranny version. If you want some success, take a look at

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf

Begining on page 5-27 under the title "The PIC Revolution"

As well as more info.

And if you really want to charge a batt, take a look at Vissie's 2 cap pulser.

You have written a nice recap of history,

Happy testing.

Jeff
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  #2809  
Old 06-22-2010, 02:00 AM
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4 Tranny Version?

[QUOTE=Bit's-n-Bytes;100292]Forget the 6 tranny version. If you want some success, take a look at

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf

Begining on page 5-27 under the title "The PIC Revolution"

As well as more info.

/QUOTE]

@Bits

Awesome sir! Thank you for your input and for the link! So you think I'm 'gettin' it? That really makes my day!

The version in the chapter5.pdf referenced above (4 tranny) is the version you are using now to drive the inverter with the code you just posted above?

Looks like I'll be puttin in my parts order @ the end of this week! And movin from the 'mind bench' to the real one!

groundhog!
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  #2810  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
@Matt, you know I am always around. The transformer is being driven just of of the inverter, and the inverter is being driven right from a 12V batt on the charge side.

Does this help?

Jeff
But a while back you made a video with the transformer(8 -10 pages ago). Is that the same thing you just gave a schematic for or was the transformer the load, period with no driving device.

I gotta step up my output from 13.6 volt AC (unrectified switch output) to somewhere around 17 volt unrectified. SO I am wondering If I need to use a transformer with a driver, or is it possible to just drive the transformer with the switch.

I'll probably have to build it or buy some big thing to actually make it work.

My only other option is to step up the whole switch to 24 volt again and knock down the voltage by using a large high loss diodes in the rectifier. Use 12 diodes in series instead of 4 singles for a rectifier.

The inverter I have drops the potential at the bridge rectifier down sa far that my switching times have to stay short. I can run the entire switch at real high speed but the problem is even worse. And the long runs seem to be more conservative.

I hope you follow what I am saying.

Matt
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  #2811  
Old 06-22-2010, 08:33 AM
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Whats an SAFT?? I don't think NiCads are that old. But maybe they are. But its hard to find big nicads so I don't know. I know Bedini used them when ever Mueller published that paper.

@Bytes
If your around. Were you driving that transformer before just off of the switch output?
I am wondering if that possible. I need to step my voltage up and I can either do it after the battery or before the load. So I was just wondering if you can drive a transformer that way or if you got to have other components.

Cheers
Matt
Matt, prepare Your self to cry:

SAFT owner and maintenance manual
Who is SAFT?
What are NiCad-s


The OMM.pdf got most of my attention though (they can be stored "dead short" indefinitely (!!!!) !!)

Stevan C.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
But a while back you made a video with the transformer(8 -10 pages ago). Is that the same thing you just gave a schematic for or was the transformer the load, period with no driving device.

I gotta step up my output from 13.6 volt AC (unrectified switch output) to somewhere around 17 volt unrectified. SO I am wondering If I need to use a transformer with a driver, or is it possible to just drive the transformer with the switch.

I'll probably have to build it or buy some big thing to actually make it work.

My only other option is to step up the whole switch to 24 volt again and knock down the voltage by using a large high loss diodes in the rectifier. Use 12 diodes in series instead of 4 singles for a rectifier.

The inverter I have drops the potential at the bridge rectifier down sa far that my switching times have to stay short. I can run the entire switch at real high speed but the problem is even worse. And the long runs seem to be more conservative.

I hope you follow what I am saying.

Matt
Ah, I remember now. I used the transformer as a load for the TS and was able to get a fair amount of voltage out of it. I had to run my TS at a higher freq. as well, so this may not work for you. Here is my vid;

YouTube - D-TS & Transformer.MPG

The inverter I just posted works real well, and with another transformer (not the one in the parts list, but the one shown in the vid) I am able to get 6, 15, 28, 44V AC depending what windings I hook up. Not knowing your setup, I would use this inverter in conjunction with the TS. It can be hooked up to 12 V, AC or DC.

Thanks

Jeff
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  #2813  
Old 06-22-2010, 12:27 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I did not try that one either
I posted it so you could see how to connect the load.
It sounds like you found something extraordinary!!
Could you tell us more as that spikes surely sound like what we all were chasing and most could not find.
To make this TS work we do need an extra high energy spike from somewhere like the high voltage negative spike that JB gets from the MJL transistors
What loads did you use and did you get any charging?
Regards
Vissie
It was a simulation only. With a couple of 1:10 transformers as loads.
My actual TS is 70% (need a few parts) done and I cannot reproduce the effect right now, nor measure the frequency.
I used livewire to simulate the 6 batt. setup (it has no freq meter ) and found what I showed in the picture. Could be a software flaw, or not. We'll see.
I'm glad that we can set things in motion once again.
Good luck to everyone!

Valentin

P.S. Have anyone tried a Tesla pancake coil as a TS load? Or a transformer built as such?
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  #2814  
Old 06-22-2010, 02:13 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
Matt, prepare Your self to cry:

The OMM.pdf got most of my attention though (they can be stored "dead short" indefinitely (!!!!) !!)

Stevan C.
Thanks Steven. I didn't know they came that big. I might look into getting some. I gotta slew of Black and Decker Nicad packs for drills, I never seen any that big.

@Bytes
Thanks. I was just wondering if you had driven a transformer straight. I am reading alot on them so I get my head above water when it come to the subject.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2815  
Old 06-23-2010, 02:42 AM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Well gotta little progress today. I dug out some 2 volt cells I had from an earlier project and added them to each bank giving me 14.5 or so per side.

I got the thing to run on a 10 minutes each side for switching and managed to actually charge the batteries. LOL each one went up about .05 volt in a 4 hour runs. And I ran a 100 watt load in addition from the inverter.

I'm happy.

The 2 volt 1.5 amp hour cells probably are not liking the abuse though. But It give me some hope. If I can get the potential up I can make this work.

I probably need to go ahead and bump up to a 24 volt system and bring the potential at the bridge down, but to pull a bigger load I'll have to have a few more batteries 8 more probably.

Anyway just wanted to give the good news. A little more time I'll have it whooped.

Matt
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  #2816  
Old 06-23-2010, 10:44 AM
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StevanC StevanC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Thanks Steven. I didn't know they came that big. I might look into getting some. I gotta slew of Black and Decker Nicad packs for drills, I never seen any that big.

@Bytes
Thanks. I was just wondering if you had driven a transformer straight. I am reading alot on them so I get my head above water when it come to the subject.

Cheers
Matt
Hi Matt,

say nothing, I dropped my jaw to the flor (DJTF?) I saw this few years back, I think I know exactly how You feel ;-)...
I did see those before while in military service, only didn't think I get my hand on any of these (and I did ...), and they ROCK,... worth the effort...

Glad I helped,
Stevan C.
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  #2817  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:54 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Just throwing out a little update on big system.

Right now I am pretty frustrated with the thing. The potential at 12 + volt is a problem and I can see why a 24 volt system has little more flexibility.

If you start adding up the losses in the system up to the bridge rectifier you can see how 12 volt system is almost not feasible.

I used an inverter and 500 watt load to test and find the losses. I start out with no load and have 12.6 volt potential at the bridge.

The switching although minimum as I can find in solid state costs about .75 volt. leaving me around 11.9v
From the switches to the front of the bridge across a number 8 wire I get another .10v loss or so so then I am 11.8v
I got better diodes, Big schottky at 50v 80amp the have a loss of .45 between the VAC point in the system and the + or - DC point on the bridge. So now I'm down 11.35. Before I put a load on the system.
I turn the inverter on with no load and loose another .05. Then add the 500 watt light and drop another .45.
At this point the potential on the bridge sits at 10.75. So I can run the system about 30 seconds and the inverter will alarm (Which I am close to cutting out of the circiut) but I can keep running another 2 minutes or so before I actually need to switch.

So the solution I found that worked the best was to add several 2 volts cells to the system putting the batteries at 14. + volt. This worked out better and I can actually get about 4 hours of runtime out of it but the losses in everything go up slightly and the little cells do not like to be in that position and eventually peter out and have to be charged again.

The one thing that is really a disappointment is the solid state relay. The forward voltage drop is alot higher than claimed in the data sheet at the pace they are running. at 50 amp they should only dropping about .08 to .10v.But measureing them they are around .25 to .30 x 3 switch's.

One other thing has come up is the impedance in the deep cycle batteries that I haven't seen before. The voltages climb real quick on the charge side decreasing the amount of time I have to run. Smaller batteries didn't act this way. It almost as if the charge doesn't want to absorb.

So anyway I am not giving up I am just going to reconfigure to 24 volt and add some batteries. I am going back to trying to charge with a Motor Generator combination as apposed to the Battery Charger. The motor generator combination did a better job of charging in quicker period of time.

No matter what I am going to get this system to work so I can come up with numbers. Its just funny how so far no matter the build I do It always shows me another problem to solve.

Cheers
Matt
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  #2818  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:10 AM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
So anyway I am not giving up I am just going to reconfigure to 24 volt and add some batteries. I am going back to trying to charge with a Motor Generator combination as apposed to the Battery Charger. The motor generator combination did a better job of charging in quicker period of time.

No matter what I am going to get this system to work so I can come up with numbers. Its just funny how so far no matter the build I do It always shows me another problem to solve.

Cheers
Matt
Hi Matt.
Have you tried to run an SSG after the bridge? Are the results the same?
Or a transformer as in the RB 24V schematic and then the bridge?

Valentin
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  #2819  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:42 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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I can run my monopole on it no problem, but I don't dare back charge with the solid State relays. They don't like that spike.

I'm setting it up for 24 volt again, by putting the batteries in series (48/24 setup). I might have to add some batteries but I can then put the motor generator on maybe another load and knock the potential down to 15 volts and run the inverter.
But I am probably going to have to get more batteries to get 1kw off of it.
The motor charges for sure I already did it with the last setup that was a 36volt/12volt. The only deal with it was the center battery was not getting charged and the outsides batts were. But it still charged overall.

Matt
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  #2820  
Old 06-29-2010, 04:29 PM
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StevanC StevanC is offline
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I still put my bet on the "dynamics" and the "unidirection" of the currents in the batteries.

Something tells me there is some sort of a sensibile "avalanche" condition happening in the L.A.B. if pulsed with the right "dynamic".

Best regards,
Stevan C.
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Last edited by StevanC; 06-30-2010 at 06:54 PM. Reason: typo :(
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