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  #2761  
Old 06-13-2010, 01:09 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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TS build proposal

Hi folks.
Here's what I'm going to try (when my picaxe arrives).
Any comments or test results will be highly appreciated.
Forget about the load.
The main purpose of ANY TS build is to charge a decent bank of batteries and run your house with it.
So, enough with this childs-play. Tiny bulbs and toys and God knows what else.
You can have all the loads you need AFTER you charge your battery bank. Right?

Valentin
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  #2762  
Old 06-13-2010, 01:46 PM
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Wow. Phase Control SCR 250 Amperes Average 1600 Volts
I hope you will not fry them.
Will the thyristor switch off by itself without a load?
I know that is like the diagram JB post, but I still see a short over bat 1, d5, d7, d6, d4 and THY1.
The same for the other batteries especially if you don't run a load.
But I can be wrong. Please proof me wrong as most of us gave up as the support that started most of us on this project is not there anymore.
Please keep us updated.
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  #2763  
Old 06-13-2010, 04:38 PM
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I see the Short as well. Although I ran switch once as described by Mr John. I can't remember what thread had that same schematic. But it didn't do very well and it got real hot.

If what you want is a house power supply first you gotta have the batteries.
If you don't wanna discharge the batteries above the C20 rate (Or c10 they be) then you'll need alot of them.

A 220 volt ac 200 amp service require quite few batteries. Not that you'll need all 200 amps at 1 time but you will need a bit for the Air conditioner, water heater, cooking range.

If the TS system is say 12 volt (Inverters are cheapest) you'll need somewhere in the 20000 amp hour range for a C10 or a 10000 amp hours for a C20. And these numbers are just an off the head estimate. I think the real numbers are bit higher, when you put a calculator it.

So you get past the batteries.
The switching is not hard to come by. Even if your circiut for some reason doesn't work (And from looking at it I would say build a small one first , Sorry) your hope is not lost. Hong Fa has good large power relays that are controlled with real low power. So does Crydom and you can find them pretty easy on DigiKey. All of them can be parralled to increase amperage ratings. A little IC chip and your in business with a switch.

After that if you want to you've got several options...
You can power an inverter (pure sine) 5000 - 10000 watt, for power to the home. When the batteries finally start getting low you can use that inverter and a large battery charger (30 - 50 amp or better) and the and back feed power to the CHARGING bank.
Or you can continually back charge with the same setup and just consume the rest of the power. But there will be some ratio's you have to deal with at that point. How much to replace to how much consumed.
Of course you can back charge with an outside power source like solar or even the grid. This will significantly drop your grid consumption at ratio's like 1 to 12, 1 to 10.

But the biggest kicker for whole house power supply is the Money. Of course the size of the house matters but there are only 100 amp services, 200 amp services ect.... So you gotta make the decision how big you need it.

I have for a little while now been test a rather big system. IT is working. I am not getting into to many details but I can say it is NOT big enough for whole house. And when I am sure it is complety functional and and does what I claim I will publish it for everybody. It will scale well and be a good stepping stone for a small power supply.

So anyway I just wanted to give you little insight into what a whole house power supply means. Its easy to say I am going to build one but........
Anything I can do for you if your funded enough to try you let me know.
Cheers
Matt
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  #2764  
Old 06-13-2010, 04:48 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Wow. Phase Control SCR 250 Amperes Average 1600 Volts
I hope you will not fry them.
I hope that too. It's a 300A. As an alternative, take a look at SKT 240. And yes. I want to go big. Enogh playing with toys.

Quote:
Will the thyristor switch off by itself without a load?
Dunno'. I can't tel until I try the setup JB gave us (based on trannies).

Quote:
I know that is like the diagram JB post, but I still see a short over bat 1, d5, d7, d6, d4 and THY1.
It's the same schematic, Vissie. How come you did not see these errors before? On JB diagrams? To me it looks like a closed loop. And I will try it as is. To see what really happen.
Quote:
The same for the other batteries especially if you don't run a load.
But I can be wrong.
I said I don't want any load. Hopefuly the charging batteries will behave as a load and the SCR will shut off in time. I want to follow the SCR path just to get rid of the voltage drops on the trannies. The man said that you can do everything with just two devices. SCR's or transistors.
Quote:
Please proof me wrong as most of us gave up as the support that started most of us on this project is not there anymore.
Please keep us updated.
Well, all I can see is that support and everything else has completely gone underground. JB as usually, after he set small a fire, disappears.
How do they call it? Proprietary information...
Ok, then!
What else can we do now? Try crazy ideas? Yes! Why not. This is all we are left to play with. Believe me, I will try!
Take care.
Valentin
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  #2765  
Old 06-13-2010, 05:00 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I see the Short as well. Although I ran switch once as described by Mr John. I can't remember what thread had that same schematic. But it didn't do very well and it got real hot.

If what you want is a house power supply first you gotta have the batteries.
If you don't wanna discharge the batteries above the C20 rate (Or c10 they be) then you'll need alot of them.

A 220 volt ac 200 amp service require quite few batteries. Not that you'll need all 200 amps at 1 time but you will need a bit for the Air conditioner, water heater, cooking range.

If the TS system is say 12 volt (Inverters are cheapest) you'll need somewhere in the 20000 amp hour range for a C10 or a 10000 amp hours for a C20. And these numbers are just an off the head estimate. I think the real numbers are bit higher, when you put a calculator it.

So you get past the batteries.
The switching is not hard to come by. Even if your circiut for some reason doesn't work (And from looking at it I would say build a small one first , Sorry) your hope is not lost. Hong Fa has good large power relays that are controlled with real low power. So does Crydom and you can find them pretty easy on DigiKey. All of them can be parralled to increase amperage ratings. A little IC chip and your in business with a switch.

After that if you want to you've got several options...
You can power an inverter (pure sine) 5000 - 10000 watt, for power to the home. When the batteries finally start getting low you can use that inverter and a large battery charger (30 - 50 amp or better) and the and back feed power to the CHARGING bank.
Or you can continually back charge with the same setup and just consume the rest of the power. But there will be some ratio's you have to deal with at that point. How much to replace to how much consumed.
Of course you can back charge with an outside power source like solar or even the grid. This will significantly drop your grid consumption at ratio's like 1 to 12, 1 to 10.

But the biggest kicker for whole house power supply is the Money. Of course the size of the house matters but there are only 100 amp services, 200 amp services ect.... So you gotta make the decision how big you need it.

I have for a little while now been test a rather big system. IT is working. I am not getting into to many details but I can say it is NOT big enough for whole house. And when I am sure it is complety functional and and does what I claim I will publish it for everybody. It will scale well and be a good stepping stone for a small power supply.

So anyway I just wanted to give you little insight into what a whole house power supply means. Its easy to say I am going to build one but........
Anything I can do for you if your funded enough to try you let me know.
Cheers
Matt
Thank you Matt. I am aware of everything you just said. Including the short. Could be a misleading from JB?
I do have the inverters. 4 of them. 1400W each. And 2 inverters at 500W. Enough for my bachelor needs. I'm not picky...
All is left is buy the 6V/300A batteries once I can charge them the way I want.
You made me curious about your setup!
Valentin
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  #2766  
Old 06-13-2010, 05:39 PM
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The TS is a viable source of power. It produces free energy (OR conserves the energy you have). But after 21 setups I have found its not as simple as it looks. LOL
It takes alot patience.

Matt
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  #2767  
Old 06-13-2010, 06:19 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
The TS is a viable source of power. It produces free energy (OR conserves the energy you have). But after 21 setups I have found its not as simple as it looks. LOL
It takes alot patience.

Matt
Man, I'm a Virgo. I have all the patience in the world.
Hopefully, your 22 setup will pay for your patience.
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  #2768  
Old 06-13-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
It's the same schematic, Vissie. How come you did not see these errors before? On JB diagrams? To me it looks like a closed loop. And I will try it as is. To see what really happen.
It did mention it numerous times and even post a diagram about it.
The first time when I ask why someone left out the parallel transistors he said that he did not post a diagram yet but soon after he posted it in the beginning of December last year.
One morning When JB was online and active I ask him about it ,he said to use large amp diodes and a huge 12v bulb. That was the only response I got out of him. He never explained the diagram.
I built it with small diodes and blew all components into pieces!! So did Leroy and others
Then Bits introduced the two top transistors back into the circuit. On the negative side you can get away with not blowing diodes as you use loads in the circuit . But still the load get driven by only one battery for the duration of the one series pulse.
If you get that circuit right you will surely be the first one. We are not even sure if JB built that version .We only saw the photo of the full 6 transistor switch.
I would suggest you take Matt up on his offer for help and safe yourself some trouble
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  #2769  
Old 06-13-2010, 09:21 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
We are not even sure if JB built that version .
I believe that he didn't, but I saw SCR's on one of his mini-solar charger pictures.
Quote:
I would suggest you take Matt up on his offer for help and safe yourself some trouble
Thank you, I will.
So if I build it this way will be safer? (I left the opto's ant other stuff out for simplicity.) Sorry for the lamer questions. This is my first time working with SCR's this way. Other than lighting a disco...
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  #2770  
Old 06-15-2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallentin View Post
I believe that he didn't, but I saw SCR's on one of his mini-solar charger pictures.

Thank you, I will.
So if I build it this way will be safer? (I left the opto's ant other stuff out for simplicity.) Sorry for the lamer questions. This is my first time working with SCR's this way. Other than lighting a disco...
Sorry to be kind of show stopper here
(better early than late though ...)

Besides a SCR being a 4 layer device (MOSFET's cousin) and being rated to humongous ratings ("bang for buck") I could hardly see why use the two SCRs in the above schematic:
The current passing each "circle" of the "overpotentialized half" of the total TS going never the less over the MJL (=can't go elsewhere ).
This parctically makes the MJL the stiff thorat, right?

Or am I missing on something here?
And besides that, we have a ~4V across the SCR + 0.4 on each diode (Schottky, right?) makes it 0.8 (best case) with each MJL giving its own 4V:
4+(4 x 2)+(0.4 x 2) = 12.8V of dissipation (times amperes =~16A) of *loss*, yes we are going "over the counter", but we haphazardly get but all burned out IMHO.

I recommend going to either all MJL ("mono culture") or using only SCR and diodes?

= :2c:
Stevan C.
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  #2771  
Old 06-16-2010, 08:25 AM
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I do not know if the scr's will work here. Never tried it. JB introduced it into the scalar charger where you switch two caps that are charged up to 12v,in series. As soon as the caps are discharged into the battery the scr will switch off as the voltage on both sides drop to the same value. When using batteries , they keep on supplying and the voltage does not drop as with caps.
I think Leroy used it like this,. Maybe he can shed some light on it when he comes back again.
I still got my setup but I am afraid to try it as It is a full 6 transistor switch and I do not want to blow my MLJ's which Bits had to sent me from the USA.
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  #2772  
Old 06-16-2010, 01:20 PM
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I don't see any reason to have an SCR at all. Especially inlight of those numbers Stevan put up.

You can over complicate the process. Its real simple to set one up, there is no need to do anything other than just a simple switch.

Matt
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  #2773  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:46 PM
vallentin vallentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I don't see any reason to have an SCR at all. Especially inlight of those numbers Stevan put up.

You can over complicate the process. Its real simple to set one up, there is no need to do anything other than just a simple switch.

Matt
Thank you all for your support, advices and ideas.
I will do it the way it has to be: (below).
I ordered the MJL's and until my picaxe arrives, I'll stick to the SG3524.
Best wishes.
Valentin

P.S.
I used Target 3001 (free) for software, press & peel paper, laser printer, good iron, ferric chloride and fine grade sandpaper for the PCB.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ts4.jpg (517.3 KB, 92 views)
File Type: jpg 3d_top.JPG (407.2 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg ts4_components.jpg (457.7 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg ts4_mirrored copper.jpg (1.03 MB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg You were right.JPG (172.9 KB, 74 views)
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Last edited by vallentin; 06-18-2010 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Corrections
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  #2774  
Old 06-16-2010, 06:53 PM
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Don't you think you should make provision for a load like a 2 x 12v primary transformer between T3 and T6 just for test purposes?
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  #2775  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallentin View Post
Thank you all for your support, advices and ideas.
I will do it the way it has to be: (below).
I ordered the MJL's and until my picaxe arrives, I'll stick to the SG3524.
Best wishes.
Valentin

P.S.
I used Target 3001 (free) for software, press & peel paper, laser printer, good iron, ferric chloride and fine grade sandpaper for the PCB.

You got another problem in there. You have to prewire to understand but you are not going to be able to fire an NPN transistor they way you have the opto's hooked up. I am talking about T3 and T6. The rest look like they may work out.
You will have to pull power from the positive side of the battery to fire a NPN.

If you just Mock up every transistor position with test leads you'll see what I am talking about. You may check your others as well just to make sure your schematic is right before you order it.

nvisser right. You'll wanna load between T3 and T6. With a direct connect you will just be burning batteries.

You may wanna go way back and review Byte's schematic for the TS. Your kind rebuilding the wheel.

Cheers
Matt.
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  #2776  
Old 06-17-2010, 10:47 AM
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And,
make sure You get the full "Que" to the MJLs without burning too much in the driving IC.
For this "REQUIREMENT" to be met, You have to have "gain" big enough. I found the BD140 to be "fair match", while there might be others even better? You seek the "driver" providing low FVD (forward voltage drop) while requiring the least current (The LED lights the least in comparison).

As The others say, play: There is no substitute for playng (=research)

Best regards,
Stevan C.
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  #2777  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I'm trying the same thing, charging 4 x 15000uf ser with the Big Joule Thief and dumping par to battery but cap's charge to slow and it takes to much input

YouTube - SerToPar_Cap_Charging.MOV

@StevanC, I got myself 2 1F/20v cap's and gonna try them on your circuit, I also discovered why I couldn't get the SG3525 working: TSPVA.jpg

How are the Mosfet's performing?

scratchrobot
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  #2778  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:37 PM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchrobot View Post
I'm trying the same thing, charging 4 x 15000uf ser with the Big Joule Thief and dumping par to battery but cap's charge to slow and it takes to much input

YouTube - SerToPar_Cap_Charging.MOV

@StevanC, I got myself 2 1F/20v cap's and gonna try them on your circuit, I also discovered why I couldn't get the SG3525 working: Attachment 5790

How are the Mosfet's performing?

scratchrobot
Ahh,
pin 15 , ain't that "neat" ?

The MOSFETs did aptly fry now they wait my anemic budget to come to speed :-P

Meanwhile I troubleshoot a 1kw inverter (switch mode sine like output - not a true sine)
It's run on two ka7500b which are actually two tl494 (LoL) "under cover" and a LM324 for control... what would You know?

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Last edited by StevanC; 06-17-2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason: typos, like usuall...
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  #2779  
Old 06-17-2010, 04:31 PM
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Exam of topic incoming B-]

So gentleman, it's been a while,
A. anyone replicated a TS-PV-Amp so far?
B. Anyone got a working replica?
C. ...did test runs?
D. ... tried out to shunt with :
D.a) diodes
D.b) plain wires
the various sections of the circuit and to testify various COP off the PV panel?


^ there might be gold...


or are we all still in "...this way better.." mood?
Stevan C.
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  #2780  
Old 06-17-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
So gentleman, it's been a while,
A. anyone replicated a TS-PV-Amp so far?
B. Anyone got a working replica?
C. ...did test runs?
D. ... tried out to shunt with :
D.a) diodes
D.b) plain wires
the various sections of the circuit and to testify various COP off the PV panel?


^ there might be gold...


or are we all still in "...this way better.." mood?
Stevan C.
Hi Stevan C. I tried your original (8 over 8 caps) and had limited success, but then made it into the 4 and 2 cap pulsers and had great success.

Bit's
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  #2781  
Old 06-18-2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Hi Stevan C. I tried your original (8 over 8 caps) and had limited success, but then made it into the 4 and 2 cap pulsers and had great success.

Bit's
Hi Bit's,
congratulations,
i surely missed on that one (I have a slow PC for YT at times), could You please elaborate how come?
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  #2782  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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Hi Bit's,
congratulations,
i surely missed on that one (I have a slow PC for YT at times), could You please elaborate how come?
I believe my input source was to low.

Bit's
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  #2783  
Old 06-18-2010, 12:36 PM
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You got another problem in there. You have to prewire to understand but you are not going to be able to fire an NPN transistor they way you have the opto's hooked up. I am talking about T3 and T6. The rest look like they may work out.
You will have to pull power from the positive side of the battery to fire a NPN.
Matt, thank you for pointing me to that error. I was too busy to see it.
Made corrections and redo the PCB.

Quote:
You may wanna go way back and review Byte's schematic for the TS. Your kind rebuilding the wheel.
Merely rounding it, man. I did what I did for the newbies (because I am one of them). We need something to start with (not bits or pieces of information).
Not everybody is a trained engineer, and we often speak a different language.
Trust me, it's very hard to digest all the info on this thread.
Bit's schematic is a little different now. Can't do. In fact I have not found any (was deleted or is out of quota).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Don't you think you should make provision for a load like a 2 x 12v primary transformer between T3 and T6 just for test purposes?
Thank you Vissie, I did, and made corrections. I hope it works well now (surely works in livewire simulation).

Valentin
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  #2784  
Old 06-18-2010, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vallentin View Post
Bit's schematic is a little different now. Can't do. In fact I have not found any (was deleted or is out of quota).

Valentin
You can find here;
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf

Begining on page 5-27 under the title "The PIC Revolution"

As well as more info.

Thanks

Bit's
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  #2785  
Old 06-18-2010, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
You can find here;
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter5.pdf

Begining on page 5-27 under the title "The PIC Revolution"

As well as more info.

Thanks

Bit's
Thank you , Jeff. I didn't know about this update.

I have a question.
On Brandt 24V system ( Use for the Tesla Switch ) posted by Nvisser I have captured spikes of 340V average on each of the loads.
Is it really possible?
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vallentin View Post
Thank you , Jeff. I didn't know about this update.

I have a question.
On Brandt 24V system ( Use for the Tesla Switch ) posted by Nvisser I have captured spikes of 340V average on each of the loads.
Is it really possible?
Everything is possible, But I'll yeild to Vissie on this one because I haven't tested that particular setup.

Thanks

Jeff
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:33 PM
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Is it really possible?

I did not try that one either
I posted it so you could see how to connect the load.
It sounds like you found something extraordinary!!
Could you tell us more as that spikes surely sound like what we all were chasing and most could not find.
To make this TS work we do need an extra high energy spike from somewhere like the high voltage negative spike that JB gets from the MJL transistors
What loads did you use and did you get any charging?
Regards
Vissie
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Last edited by nvisser; 06-18-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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  #2788  
Old 06-18-2010, 04:39 PM
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scratchrobot scratchrobot is offline
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Is it really possible?

Sounds interesting

Showing off my new cap's with Stefan's Tesla Switch Photo Voltaic Amplifier circuit 3 Minute charging

scratchrobot
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  #2789  
Old 06-18-2010, 05:29 PM
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StevanC StevanC is offline
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"WoW"
scratchrobot,
I would now suggest concentrating on the mass of the needle of the ampmeter:
1. She integrates the WF (waveform)
2. She has mass that responds to the _dinamic_ of the pulse's WF
3. the needle moves longer than the pulse lasts it self

this is what cought my attention back then...
interaction with mass
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:26 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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1kw TS

I just wanted to post some progress on my biggest tesla switch yet.
I started testing today to get the bugs worked out and see what switching rates to use.
Based on the last 4 switch's (And 16 before that) I have pretty much developed a good theory for what to use component wise based on how much power you need. So I'll be publishing that next month some time after I get a slew of tests done on this one.

Basically ran this switch 2 time today and watched the back charging. So far all the batteries have charged as expected.

I discharged them some so I can document a test, and right now I am waiting for the thing to settle out. Start a long run and see what happens.

Anyway here's a teaser for ya YouTube - 1kwTS.MPG

Just wanted to update you guys.

CHeers
Matt
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