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  #2491  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Where did we all go....?

Anyway..
I have been running my switch with all the components planned except the generator. So far.
I have 6 115 amp hour deep cycle's. 3 on each side to make a 24 volt potential. They are just off the shelf. I have not even put a charge in them.
The motor I have been running with a mechanical load to force it to pull 15 amps at 24 volt.
I have made runs on the setup. First was about an hour I didn't record it but it was good. The second was an hour, I did not loose anything after a 3 hour rest of the batteries.

Today I ran 8 hours and rested 4. NO LOSS.

Left Side
Start
A. 12.71
B. 12.68
C. 12.72
Finish after rest
A. 12.71
B. 12.69
C. 12.72

Right Side
Start.
C. 12.78
D. 12.78
E. 12.64

Finish
C. 12.78
D. 12.79
E. 12.62

The batteries do not climb above about 12.90 at any given time. I was running 25 seconds each way.
I am going to do another through the night for a total of 24 hours and see if any consumption shows up.

At this rate I do not need to add charge to the batteries, but even if the totals were to start to fall off, after eight hours the amount of supplement power needed to maintain these batteries charge is easy to come by.
I am going to get the generator mounted up. I want to max the batteries out.
Then start pulling other loads in addition. An inverter or some other batteries for charging.

I have also started to purchase all the parts I need to build a version with the Solid State Relays.

If anybody is interested in helping, I need a PCB designed and few bugs worked out. PM me with reference. Payed or Bartered Job.

Cheers
Matt
Nice job Matt

Bit's
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  #2492  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Sorry guys, I've been away from test bench due to "professional development" Waiting for 40A SS relays and slowly populating Pulsinator board (according to Bit's schem. ). I need to read back all pages I have missed and catch up since you've made some interesting discoveries when I was absent This is great place


Vtech
Vtech, welcome back my friend.

Bit's
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  #2493  
Old 04-01-2010, 08:38 AM
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Update

Hi Folks,

I haven't posted for a while but I've still been messing around on the bench.

I've tried a few different ideas, but nothing that will have the MIB chasing after me so far

My latest setup was to try and run a 6-transistor SS SG with inverted cap pulser from the 24V side whilst dumping the the cap bank into the 12V side, then switching.

This was done by using a couple of relays to switch the input and output sides of the SS SG Cap Pulser. Alas, no OU but I had to try it anyways.

I also revisited using the SS SG Cap Pulser as the load in the TS. This gave me better results than the hybrid relay setup, by using the cap bank to dump into a 5th battery. Even if I rotated the charged 5th battery with the weakest out of the 4 TS batteries I still wasn't over the top.

I'm going to take a break from the TS for a while until I come up with some other ideas, but right now just my 6-transistor SS SG with inverted cap pulser is giving me almost 1:1 charging when driven off 24V into a parallel 12V bank. I'm going to fiddle with this setup for a while as well as conditioning some batteries.

Until then, I plan on re-watching DVD's and reading books until some ideas pop into my head. I found a great Tesla document the other day - "The strange life of Nikola Tesla" which I need to digest as well as some EFTV DVDs. Tom Bearden makes it sound so simple - short HV impulses with no closed loops.


John K.
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  #2494  
Old 04-01-2010, 10:02 PM
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Inquorate.

Hi Inquorate,

I checked out the vid you referenced, but I couldn't really follow what it was you were doing. The schematic on that vid looked sorta like a tesla switch but with the transistor and a coil on the emitter side of it in the path from the high + to the Low + of the battery acting as the parallel stack in your setup.

I've still been working at the replica of the bedini solar charger thing. I still can't get the higher output amps noted over the input amps. I have some 39000uF 35volt caps coming that are about the last thing I can think to try on that before I convert my controller to do the tesla switch switching. Maybe next week I'll get to that. It seems that from some exchanges with Stevan that the output amps pulse is over before the meter needle ever climbs as high as it shows... almost like its the inertia of the pulse pushing the needle up that high as opposed to the actual amp pulse discharge. I'm just speculating as I'm running out of ideas as to how that is being achieved. He is charging in parallel and discharging in series. I'm using the same timing of on for .485seconds and off for .005seconds and on for another .485seconds and off for .005seconds and then the whole cycle repeats. I'm using 1farad 20vdc rated audio caps for cars as my two caps that are being filled and then discharged. I get roughly a 2:1 amp inpututput. Input maxes at 3amps, output maxes at 2amps. (little higher than 2:1 currently.)

Sounds like Matts had some decent runs with his setup of the TS. I don't have any batteries that big... ah well... Will update this thread again when I have something useful to report...

Gene
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  #2495  
Old 04-01-2010, 10:56 PM
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Schottky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Vtech, welcome back my friend.

Bit's
Thanks Bit's
Just a question regarding Schottky diodes in your Pulsinator; What voltage they should be rated to be safe? I have found some 20/30A 90V - S20SC9M @ $1.75 ea. if I'll get 10 - 15. They're common cathode. Those in your schem. aren't expensive but shipping from DigiK will cost $20. Beside them I have pretty much everything or on its way.


V
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  #2496  
Old 04-02-2010, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Thanks Bit's
Just a question regarding Schottky diodes in your Pulsinator; What voltage they should be rated to be safe? I have found some 20/30A 90V - S20SC9M @ $1.75 ea. if I'll get 10 - 15. They're common cathode. Those in your schem. aren't expensive but shipping from DigiK will cost $20. Beside them I have pretty much everything or on its way.


V
Vtech, those should work just fine. Good to hear from you.

Thanks
Bit's
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  #2497  
Old 04-02-2010, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Vtech, those should work just fine. Good to hear from you.

Thanks
Bit's
Thanks Bit's Just ordered them. Hope to get back to TS soon.


V
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  #2498  
Old 04-02-2010, 07:22 AM
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Welcome back Vtech. You should go to the nearest PC repair shop and ask for old PC power supplies. They got nice shottkey diodes on the outputs.

Gene. You are correct. The cap bank pulse output to the battery is very quick and the panel meter does not show it properly. I used a cheap Suzuki bike plus minus 30A ammeter. It respond very quickly and will show you what happens on the output. You will be surprised!!
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  #2499  
Old 04-02-2010, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Welcome back Vtech. You should go to the nearest PC repair shop and ask for old PC power supplies. They got nice shottkey diodes on the outputs.

Gene. You are correct. The cap bank pulse output to the battery is very quick and the panel meter does not show it properly. I used a cheap Suzuki bike plus minus 30A ammeter. It respond very quickly and will show you what happens on the output. You will be surprised!!
Hello Vissie I did check local repair shops a few times in the past few weeks and got 1 (one) Found another on the curb, salvaged two diodes. I found a guy in Quebec who has 90 of them (S20SC9M) at $1.45 plus $3 shipping for 15. They're common cathode, 90V 20A. Should arrive next week. Your suggestion with + - ammeter is right on. I used similar and it gives a good idea what's going on.


V
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  #2500  
Old 04-02-2010, 06:40 PM
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Hi Nvisser,

That makes me wonder if we're just not using the right type of ammeter. I suspect the ammeter you're using which has a range of -30-0-30 amps is made to sense en masse the flux so that it reacts accordingly.

Does this seem to then indicate that depending on what ammeter we buy, we get good results or bad results? How then do we know whats really there?

In theory if you just see the needle fly on the suzuki ammeter you should see something similar on a panel ammeter thats a 0-30amp DC meter eh?

Does the meter have a datasheet for it?

I've only tried a couple 0-5amp DC analog ammeters that look just like the ones Bedini had on his solar charger vid... maybe I should be using 0-10amps or 0-15amps as perhaps the swing of the needle has nothing to do with what is really being pushed down the conductor at a much higher di/dt than it can register properly?

Its curious with one meter you don't see what you want, you trade in some other ammeter and now you see what you want and seem satisfied... just by changing the meter and not the circuit... I sorta doubt one of the meters is being honest... The meters must have different response characteristics and probably have some limit to how fast they can respond depending on what their guts look like inside.

Regards,
Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Welcome back Vtech. You should go to the nearest PC repair shop and ask for old PC power supplies. They got nice shottkey diodes on the outputs.

Gene. You are correct. The cap bank pulse output to the battery is very quick and the panel meter does not show it properly. I used a cheap Suzuki bike plus minus 30A ammeter. It respond very quickly and will show you what happens on the output. You will be surprised!!
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  #2501  
Old 04-03-2010, 06:14 PM
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Parallel/series charging

I am currently experimenting with two 18000uf caps charged in parallel at 12 volts and relay switched two series and dumped to battery (12 volt gell cell)
I have found that the switching frequency is very_ very critical. I used an old 12 volt double pole relay with hefty 10 amp contacts and set my pulse generator to drive the set up at 15% mark space at around 10Hz...12Hz. This cell reached just under 12 volts after about 4 hours charge. I'm experimenting also on other ideas using BEMF. It seems that frequency play's an importatnt part here to gain reasonable results. Dupe
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  #2502  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:06 AM
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Ben's gift inspire me this. This design require two relay with 4 parallel contact such as FRM3-4B5. It is based from Ronald Brandt version in "report on 4 battery switch".



All the switch (S1 to S6) should closed/gated/turned on when the appropriate relay turned on.
Relay 1 control S1, S3 and S6. Relay 2 control S2, S4 and S5. Relay is powered by source battery.

To comform to C20 charging/discharging, resistor is put in the negative part, maybe a coil would be better.

resistor value is = battery voltage * 20 / battery capacity

example = 24V * 20 / 7A
example = 68.5 ohm

If longer delay time is needed, capacitor can be added in parallel with the relay coil. Power consumption will depend on relay power consumption.

Edit: capacitor should not be added to the second relay because it will produce all relay on condition, my mistakes.
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  #2503  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:02 PM
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Im back ;)

Hi,
JohnK, stonewater, Lero, Genessc JangYD and other respected fellow researchers.

It's been quite a while.
To avoid being dull or boring, pick some questions, watch the vids on YT:
cest73
And i will follow up.
I do have a "kind of" TS PV Amp
1. It's unofficial
2. It's officially unsupported
3. my work is GPL, but I hereby ask JB's permission before going public.
4. private copies are permissible under non disclosure conditions only (free of charge)

Schematics I used are my own brainfart, but are strongly biased with what JB thought us here.

No guarantee, not fitness for particular application, (GPL "blah, blah"...)
Use at own risk, don't dare blame me etc...

anyone still reading?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TS-PV-Amp-SG3525PWM.jpg (35.9 KB, 204 views)
File Type: jpg TS-PV-Amp-box.jpg (35.3 KB, 140 views)
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  #2504  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
Hi,
JohnK, stonewater, Lero, Genessc JangYD and other respected fellow researchers.

It's been quite a while.
To avoid being dull or boring, pick some questions, watch the vids on YT:
cest73
And i will follow up.
I do have a "kind of" TS PV Amp
1. It's unofficial
2. It's officially unsupported
3. my work is GPL, but I hereby ask JB's permission before going public.
4. private copies are permissible under non disclosure conditions only (free of charge)

Schematics I used are my own brainfart, but are strongly biased with what JB thought us here.

No guarantee, not fitness for particular application, (GPL "blah, blah"...)
Use at own risk, don't dare blame me etc...

anyone still reading?
Outstanding StevenC. Are the main Caps 4700uf's

Just a great job. Good work.

Bit's
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  #2505  
Old 04-10-2010, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Outstanding StevenC. Are the main Caps 4700uf's

Just a great job. Good work.

Bit's
Hi Bit's
Each and every one is 10'000 uF @20V (=cheap) or 50V (initial testing)
So it's
80'000uF each bank
40'000uF @40V in series (to battery)
160'000uF @20V in parallel (from PV or PSU)

AND
they fill up to 18V not higher (ever)
And they dump to 55% "SoC" of the receiving battery, not lower (about 8V) (ever)

AND
usually they swing 10...12V back and forth (yep, 2V only)


Stevan C.
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
Hi Bit's
Each and every one is 10'000 uF @20V (=cheap) or 50V (initial testing)
So it's
80'000uF each bank
40'000uF @40V in series (to battery)
160'000uF @20V in parallel (from PV or PSU)

AND
they fill up to 18V not higher (ever)
And they dump to 55% "SoC" of the receiving battery, not lower (about 8V) (ever)

AND
usually they swing 10...12V back and forth (yep, 2V only)


Stevan C.
Very nice piece of work Stevan
It reminds me of John's patent, the one I had persistent thoughts about
I even made some changes and replaced Mosfets with MJL's (don't like mosfets) but didn't attempt to build yet and didn't share the circuit because it is modification of John's patent. I believe it is from 2003.


Vtech
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  #2507  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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Brilliant work Stevan
Parallel to series. This is way he calls it the Tesla charger
Very clever switching using a npn on the high side instead of a pnp like in the bipolar switch.
I always wondered how to do that high side switching with npn bipolar transistors. I see now how it works as the battery + at that stage is at a lower voltage than the cap + side.
Your circuit also show what JB said about using the pnp with the npn to get a faster rise time, instead of using the parallel cap and diode.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
Hi,
JohnK, stonewater, Lero, Genessc JangYD and other respected fellow researchers.

It's been quite a while.
To avoid being dull or boring, pick some questions, watch the vids on YT:
cest73
And i will follow up.
I do have a "kind of" TS PV Amp
1. It's unofficial
2. It's officially unsupported
3. my work is GPL, but I hereby ask JB's permission before going public.
4. private copies are permissible under non disclosure conditions only (free of charge)

Schematics I used are my own brainfart, but are strongly biased with what JB thought us here.

No guarantee, not fitness for particular application, (GPL "blah, blah"...)
Use at own risk, don't dare blame me etc...

anyone still reading?
I'm reading, definitely interested. Could you upload a higher resolution picture of your schematics. The component values are blurry. Especially on the first one.
Edit: Also your video show TL494, but schematic shows SG3525. Why did you switch?
Sincerely,

David
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Last edited by eternalightwithin; 04-11-2010 at 03:23 AM.
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  #2509  
Old 04-11-2010, 09:18 AM
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Arrow switching the switch's switcher (LoL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalightwithin View Post
I'm reading, definitely interested. Could you upload a higher resolution picture of your schematics. The component values are blurry. Especially on the first one.
Edit: Also your video show TL494, but schematic shows SG3525. Why did you switch?
Sincerely,

David
David,
I switched for simple reasons really:
1. The TL494 is declared as a 1k cycle/sec "beast", while the SG3525 is declared as a 0.1kHz one. This alone provides advantages in slowdown.
2. The SG has a "soft start" that is brain dead" easy to implement, while 494 lack this (needs few more components to get it)
3. While I did have the mHz (miliHertz) going 494 at "zero Dead Time" it became unreliable on anything less (can't do 25%/25%25%25% at all on low speed).

So SG3525 wo in the end.
Why not SG3524 (SG1524) instead?
A. The 3525 is intended fro driving a fet = it has "source in" and "gnd" while giving output by CMOS switching it to source or GND - this could lend itself for a 4 channel setup later
B. The 3525 has a "bit" sharper rising edges than 3524, but that is of lesser concern for we drive a opto here
C. Most important: the 3525 IS declared as able to run _slower_ than the 3524, so i figured I become familiar with it, the sooner the better.

Although there is a better "instead" coming in soon (an AVR computer with usb for less than $7 piece)

The resolution is limited by the forum rules

*** stay tuned ***
Stevan C.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:26 AM
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Arrow FET vs BJT

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Very nice piece of work Stevan
It reminds me of John's patent, the one I had persistent thoughts about
I even made some changes and replaced Mosfets with MJL's (don't like mosfets) but didn't attempt to build yet and didn't share the circuit because it is modification of John's patent. I believe it is from 2003.


Vtech
AS You can see, i quit "thinking" and lumped together what we did know/try:
each and every "switch" got a "driver" and each "driver" got a "opto".

But troubleshooting was really a nightmare, so I put LEDs in series to each opto-driver.

Then i could literally "see" current, and it was all clear to me:
When JB says "it's in the switching"
I believe it is in the A in to A out ratio:
Get it maxed out:
1A in -> 40A out
but on 48%/2%/48%/2% schedule
(the 2% deat time, for our switches are "imperfect" (=material, "real", and limited) )

An "ideal" switch would do:
1A -> infinite A
50% 50%
and probably ope an singularity:


I'm out ^ of here

FETs would need a separate 10V DC supply or each device (=nightmare)
Stevan C.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:43 AM
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Arrow wondering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Brilliant work Stevan
Parallel to series. This is way he calls it the Tesla charger
I really wonder _why_ he calls it the Tesla charger?

Is it for the sheer unidirectional pulse the battery receives, Tesla was fighting so hard to explore?

Kind thanks, but I really have little credit in this here. It's JB who fought this to public attention.

Quote:
Very clever switching using a npn on the high side instead of a pnp like in the bipolar switch.
I always wondered how to do that high side switching with npn bipolar transistors. I see now how it works as the battery + at that stage is at a lower voltage than the cap + side.
All i did is I begun to look at "what is _more_ positive and what is _more_ negative on a link connecting "two nodes".
"which side does current flow?" (we thing "poisitve to GND" or "HOT -> GND")

Luckily the BJT (MJL) is a current driven device (this is important here), but we need remember it needs some voltage to do so:
0.7V forward bias for base having current
1V for Vce flowing forward current
Then there is reverse breakdown (~16V on MJL)
But the BJT really is a "current" animal.
Quote:
Your circuit also show what JB said about using the pnp with the npn to get a faster rise time, instead of using the parallel cap and diode.
The PNP I couldn't neither confirm nor deny. I don't really know.

He notes PNP one place, and I dug PNP drive and found Sziklay pair - the "complementary Darlington" and its PRO et CONTRA vs Darlington ("Vanilla Darlington" )

I really reconsider if I need it done "Sziklay" or a "complementary Darlington" for there is a difference how the compound device acts, and how it is "fed" to do so.

The key is both the rising edge, and the FVD (Forward Voltage Drop) for the whole transition.

Sziklay provides just the most "open" on "cue" as far as I know ATM.

But then there is the SCR and the "SCR instead" with a PNP-NPN pair, that is also able to "avalanche" sheer amperes over short time periods.

Best regards,
Stevan C.

Hopefully JB comes and comments regarding this soon, so I know what I do?
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
Hi,
JohnK, stonewater, Lero, Genessc JangYD and other respected fellow researchers.

It's been quite a while.
To avoid being dull or boring, pick some questions
Hi StevanC,

I do still read this occasionally, and you do some nice work!

Pick some questions....Ok, and maybe a comment too.

I can not pick specific parts on the diagram you drew, because there are no part numbers, so describing it may be the best way.

Disclaimer: The questions below are not intended in any way as a criticism but only intended to help facilitate my understanding and to find out why you did what you did.

You decided to totally disconnect the capacitor banks from the power supply by using two additional "switches", i.e. the top capacitor (bank) positive is not directly connected to the power supply, but through a switch (the one to the 4th opto down from the top (or first one on the "red" led), and the the "switch" leading to the 7th opto down from top (or 4th one on the "red" led) which connects the negative of the lower cap bank to the negative of the power supply. 1. I was wondering why you thought you "needed" to do this? From a solar panel perspective, if you were charging some huge capacitor, I can see that when the discharging of the series capacitors is happening, the power supply capacitor could be charging and that would be a good thing. 2. Could you not have just used the top "switch" to disconnect the top cap bank from the power supply and connected the bottom cap bank directly to the negative of the power supply, thus reducing part count? 3. Do you think the capacitor banks need to be charged to the exact same level or something? 4. Are these "switches" I am speaking of above utilized as an attempt at a totally open looped system (i.e. negatives (and positives) of power supply and output are never connected at the same time)?

Thank you for your post and I await your thoughts!

Lero
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:12 PM
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Stevan
I think this coming week I will replicate what you have done. I changed the diagram a bit by removing 2 of the switches and added 4 diodes. It looks a bit like the full TS. Can you go over the diagram if you don't mind and tell me if you think it will still do the same as yours.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:57 PM
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I am trying my best to try and understand how this type of charger can give you a gain.
Looking at its operation I see that it take much longer to charge the cap bank up to the input voltage than it takes to discharge it into the battery.
It discharge very quickly onto the low impedance battery and I donít think the reading we see on the ammeters are true as the pulse are finished before the meter can respond properly.
I connected a 12V lamp inline on my relay par in, series out cap bank to see what happens.
Now when the cap charge up the lamp came on quite bright (18V), but when it discharged at now 36V it gave a very bright and quick light pulse.
If you go work it out with E= 0.5 CV^2 joules you will see that the energy in and out are the same.
Using 2 x 10 000uf caps you get:
For parallel charge : 0.5 x 20 000uf x 18V^2 = 3.24 J
For series discharge: 0.5 x 5 000uf x 36V^2= 3.24 J
I am not sure if the time plays a big role as discharging is only a small part of the charge pulse time.
Any thoughts??
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I am trying my best to try and understand how this type of charger can give you a gain.
Looking at its operation I see that it take much longer to charge the cap bank up to the input voltage than it takes to discharge it into the battery.
It discharge very quickly onto the low impedance battery and I donít think the reading we see on the ammeters are true as the pulse are finished before the meter can respond properly.
I connected a 12V lamp inline on my relay par in, series out cap bank to see what happens.
Now when the cap charge up the lamp came on quite bright (18V), but when it discharged at now 36V it gave a very bright and quick light pulse.
If you go work it out with E= 0.5 CV^2 joules you will see that the energy in and out are the same.
Using 2 x 10 000uf caps you get:
For parallel charge : 0.5 x 20 000uf x 18V^2 = 3.24 J
For series discharge: 0.5 x 5 000uf x 36V^2= 3.24 J
I am not sure if the time plays a big role as discharging is only a small part of the charge pulse time.
Any thoughts??
Vissie,

It isn't about the joules in vs joules out. I believe the idea is to get the ions moving...and keep them moving. If you hit the battery ions with a pulse, and get them moving, then you hit them again before they stop moving, then you use less "juice" to charge the battery, but the battery still charges up fully with less input. You can do this with HV with small caps (small current) or big caps and LV (bigger current). But, you must keep the ions moving and if you can keep them moving along, you don't need a lot of "juice" to charge, you just keep them moving in charge motion.

JB talks about 125ms up to 1 second when talking about these devices and he showed on the video of the solar charger 125ms on, 125ms off. 125 ms, or thereabouts may be how long it takes after that particular pulse for the ions to stop moving in that particular battery he was charging. It may take longer, like 250ms or 1 sec. for them to stop moving, but if he hits them again, before they stop, they continue moving and charging the battery...he is getting something for less than he would have if he was just applying constant current. It still isn't "free", he had to do something to get what he was after and he didn't sulphate the battery in the process.

My 2 cents,

Leroy
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:42 PM
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Thanks, it makes sense
I just wonder why Jb ask in the video "What do you think the gain of this system is?" and then he shows the input of 17.7V @ 3.2A (56W) and then the output of about 14V @10A pulses. (140W). The voltage output could even be much higher but are pulled down to the current battery voltage and of course they are much shorter pulses than the input pulses.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Thanks, it makes sense
I just wonder why Jb ask in the video "What do you think the gain of this system is?" and then he shows the input of 17.7V @ 3.2A (56W) and then the output of about 14V @10A pulses. (140W). The voltage output could even be much higher but are pulled down to the current battery voltage and of course they are much shorter pulses than the input pulses.
How many apples can you get out of an orange? I think you would actually have to take the area under the curve to get the power in vs. power out, the meters are measuring wasted energy...I think JB said that. Anyway, it is not a one to one comparison and the 10As the meter was showing isn't a "true" measurement either, but the charger works...that is the point of the exercise and I'm sure those chargers will charge the hell out of the battery, so it is a mute point what the power in vs. out is/was. Made for a nice show though.

Leroy
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Old 04-12-2010, 02:41 AM
stonewater stonewater is offline
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tesla switch radiant amplifier from energenx

hi everyone,

just got back from the conference in Idaho. saw JB's new tesla switch at work. it is awesome! it is a true amplifier that charges even in marginal light. I had the 20 amp model hooked up to a pair of 205 watt sunelec panels. at the end of the day the panels were in total shade, hidden by trees and the entrance to the lodge. the switch was still functioning.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:55 AM
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Arrow Sandbox type

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldissing View Post
Hi StevanC,

I do still read this occasionally, and you do some nice work!

Pick some questions....Ok, and maybe a comment too.

I can not pick specific parts on the diagram you drew, because there are no part numbers, so describing it may be the best way.

Disclaimer: The questions below are not intended in any way as a criticism but only intended to help facilitate my understanding and to find out why you did what you did.

You decided to totally disconnect the capacitor banks from the power supply by using two additional "switches", i.e. the top capacitor (bank) positive is not directly connected to the power supply, but through a switch (the one to the 4th opto down from the top (or first one on the "red" led), and the the "switch" leading to the 7th opto down from top (or 4th one on the "red" led) which connects the negative of the lower cap bank to the negative of the power supply. 1. I was wondering why you thought you "needed" to do this?
It is easy to short (bypass) a BJT, but it is much harder to put one in where a short is.
So i found all "nodes" and put a "switch" on each.
Therefrom it's all "sandbox"...

Quote:
From a solar panel perspective, if you were charging some huge capacitor, I can see that when the discharging of the series capacitors is happening, the power supply capacitor could be charging and that would be a good thing.

I'm not so sure
IMHO it depends, and it _might_ be a good thing, but as well a bad?
Quote:
2. Could you not have just used the top "switch" to disconnect the top cap bank from the power supply and connected the bottom cap bank directly to the negative of the power supply, thus reducing part count?

I take a clip-wire and do so. Guess what i Found out?

Quote:
3. Do you think the capacitor banks need to be charged to the exact same level or something?
It seems to be desired: the "middle" BJT on the "series" side seems to like *equilibrium*. We seem to picture the potential/current_flow the wrong way around in this part of the circuit :
We consider the BJT "right" while "in Que", while i seems we should consider it at the moment it's just about to "que" - then it's all "normal", and, who says the BJT know's it's upside-down ?

Quote:
4. Are these "switches" I am speaking of above utilized as an attempt at a totally open looped system (i.e. negatives (and positives) of power supply and output are never connected at the same time)?
Quote:
Kind of, but no,
I just wanted a Sandbox type of setup, I could shunt with Diodes, SCRs and "shorts" until I find a way advantageous to others.
Quote:
Thank you for your post and I await your thoughts!

Lero
Lero,


Those are them (thoughts),
Stevan C.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:02 AM
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StevanC StevanC is offline
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The math

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I am trying my best to try and understand how this type of charger can give you a gain.
Looking at its operation I see that it take much longer to charge the cap bank up to the input voltage than it takes to discharge it into the battery.
It discharge very quickly onto the low impedance battery and I donít think the reading we see on the ammeters are true as the pulse are finished before the meter can respond properly.
I connected a 12V lamp inline on my relay par in, series out cap bank to see what happens.
Now when the cap charge up the lamp came on quite bright (18V), but when it discharged at now 36V it gave a very bright and quick light pulse.
If you go work it out with E= 0.5 CV^2 joules you will see that the energy in and out are the same.
Using 2 x 10 000uf caps you get:
For parallel charge : 0.5 x 20 000uf x 18V^2 = 3.24 J
For series discharge: 0.5 x 5 000uf x 36V^2= 3.24 J
I am not sure if the time plays a big role as discharging is only a small part of the charge pulse time.
Any thoughts??
So,
now, just how _far_ each of the two *same* joules can swing a *massive* object (the needle on the A meter)?

the _same_ energy, eventually less, certainly not _more_, can swing it *further* if we deliver it in shorter time.

TS is simply _proof_ to that.

It's in the leading edge, and the sheer rate of dump.

The same "goes further" IMHO applies to IONS inside the L.A.B. too.


Stevan C.
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