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  #1231  
Old 12-19-2009, 12:55 AM
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ldissing ldissing is offline
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Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Bit's, that is looking much better. For those that are having problems with the SG3524n regulator. Tie pins 4 and 5 to ground put a 4.5 k resistor from pin 16 to pin 2 then put a 20 K to ground from pin 2 make sure pin 1 is tied to pin 9. Ground bus is very important.
JB

I did not use the resistors as JB has indicated, but I will try it out. I did ground 4 and 5, and I've never had a problem with the 3524 quiting.

@Bits:
Looking good. What were the settings on the scope? Are you seeing twice the negative as the positive? I could not tell in the vid.

Leroy
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  #1232  
Old 12-19-2009, 01:44 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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3PDT Tesla Switch

I have my 3PDT relay TS working with a 555 circuit for the oscillator. So I can get an idea of how well it's working or not, the 555 and the relays (2 x DPDT) are being driven from separate batteries.

The batteries are 7Ah gel-cell "test dummies". The load is an 83 ohm coil with an R60 core.

After a 48 minute test run, here's the results so far:

Time 11:28 12:16
B1 13.00 12.87
B2 12.25 12.48
B3 12.33 12.62
B4 12.89 12.69

Total 50.47 50.68

I can still probe around all of the battery terminals with one leg of an NE-2 and get the neon to flash.

John K.
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  #1233  
Old 12-19-2009, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ldissing View Post
@Bits:
Looking good. What were the settings on the scope? Are you seeing twice the negative as the positive? I could not tell in the vid.

Leroy
Not quite twice, about 2/3rds.

Bit's
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  #1234  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:26 AM
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Hey John K,

Glad you are up and running with the relays. What if the spikes from the coil were actually sent to the positives of the batteries via a diode? One on each side, going to the opposite sides positive?

On another note. Since I can only think about things...

I do not remember JB talking about using coils so much in regards to the TS. I know he did with the scalar charger, though and he had a bulb across the coil (maybe just to see what was going on).

1. If the coil is being switched 50/50, then the coil has current going through it in both directions and no dead time. Maybe a 9V bulb across that coil would be a good idea, so that you have some potential left, i.e. the 9V bulb is not too bright? Or, you could say that some potential can get through, because the bulb will have a drop of 9V only?

With the relays, you do not have any diodes, so you have the full potential available, which would be approximately 3-4.5 volts depending on battery voltages.

2. While a coil will produce spikes, it will also take up all the potential available, but and it will produce spikes and also produce an increase of voltage (what a normal coil does) when the one side is shut off. Maybe a delay is needed too in the relay version, so that this increase in voltage creates the potential to charge the battery in the off time. Good application for a duty cycle controlled 3524 instead of the 555.

Just thinking,

Lero

P.S. Flash bright, or flash dim? Still bright?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
I have my 3PDT relay TS working with a 555 circuit for the oscillator. So I can get an idea of how well it's working or not, the 555 and the relays (2 x DPDT) are being driven from separate batteries.

The batteries are 7Ah gel-cell "test dummies". The load is an 83 ohm coil with an R60 core.

After a 48 minute test run, here's the results so far:

Time 11:28 12:16
B1 13.00 12.87
B2 12.25 12.48
B3 12.33 12.62
B4 12.89 12.69

Total 50.47 50.68

I can still probe around all of the battery terminals with one leg of an NE-2 and get the neon to flash.

John K.
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  #1235  
Old 12-19-2009, 05:19 AM
Murlin Murlin is offline
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Quote:
@Murlin,


If it was you that was looking for a purely mechanical approach to the Tesla Switch please see post #1213. Sorry guys, citfta
Thanks I appreciate the feedback.

I have attempted to build a hybrid TS. So far it has only produced a little voltage over the bridge that did not cause a significant drain on the batteries.

Probably doesn't mean anything. I need to do amp tests next time precisely measure load wattage. Did not see any charging at all, but haven't been able to look at it on the scope yet, but soon.

I was hoping to get the diodes soldered in today but only got all the leads and the mounting board made. Ran out of time. I must stop by Radio Shack and get a heat sink clamp, don't want to fry them...

When I do the next run test I will post the results, good or bad.

regards,

Murlin
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  #1236  
Old 12-19-2009, 05:35 AM
JANGYD JANGYD is offline
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Please correct me!

Hi All,

I have experimented it for several days in order to study if you can see how you get the power out!!!
with the attached circuit presented by JB on post 1047.

I couldn't run this circuit correctly. Does this circuit work on full switching?
Please correct me, anybody will be apprecialted.
When I ran the S1 only for oneside switching,
-.B1,B3 and B4 was not changed and only B2 was consumed. this means
-.Current ran through D1 and Most went to D2->D5->S1->D7->Load1,
and Little went to D4(and D6), D9(and D10) ->Load2.

Am I doing it correctly?
Does this mean 1)Voltage (with little current) on D4/D6 can charge B3/B4 and
2)Current goes to load through D2,D5,S1,D7?

Regards,

JANG

ps)attached is the circuit on post1047 presented by JB, I numbered the parts for explaination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Ok,
I guess I should go over this again. The first thing I said to everybody is the three battery test was to show which way the potential goes.... I set up the three batteries with biased transistors, just two, the third you could switch so you could see what was going on in the circuit. I guess we find two things going on one with the four battery system and the other the Scalar charger. Both the circuits do the same thing one doubles the voltage and slams it back to the battery(Scalar Charger) but it is more then that as this one is a current charge pump. That pump drives things negative. The four battery system does the same thing but it does it buy putting the batteries in series then it slams the current across the paralleled load. This is very simple to do with two transistors and some diodes. The first part of this is how much potential can you move in a micro second before the current builds up in the circuit? Look at the drawing and see if you can see how you get the power out!!! I will be busy but I will check back.
John B
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File Type: jpg post1047 from JB.JPG (89.6 KB, 140 views)
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Last edited by JANGYD; 12-19-2009 at 05:36 AM. Reason: change the phrase
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  #1237  
Old 12-19-2009, 12:57 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Lamare,
I have gone back through all the posts now and I find something very intriguing in your posts. Following the second link to an experiment done by "TRICKY MIT, as usual. The man charges a Layden Jar capacitor. Then he takes the capacitor apart and touches the plate together and nothing happens when he shorts it out. But what I find is there are no electrons hanging to the plates at all, since there are none. My question to you is where is the energy to be found? I know the typical answer, I want the real answer. I know the man demonstrating knows but do the EE's know. Or are they just reading from the playbook of Dick and Jane to wright equations for more loops.
John B
@JB: It turns out that indeed there are (almost) no electrons hanging to the plates, because the dielectricum shorts out, as I posted here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Now consider a typical capacitor. What would be a typical value of the spacing between the plates? 1 mm, "worst case"??
Great, that means the dielectricum shorts out when there's more then 0.03 Volts across the plates, not counting the canceling out of the two fields created by the plates and the dielectricum, of course. And remember, this 0.03 V really is about the maximum limit you would be talking about in a typical capacitor, since the typical spacing between the plates is much less, and the 30V is in the case of the most "lossy" capacitors.....

This means one thing is very, very clear: the "insulation" properties of the dielectric inside a typical capacitor can be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least.....
In other words: it is now clear that it is way more than "some electrons" that drift from one plate to the other.....
Now, where is the energy to be found?

First of all, no energy is being stored.. The energy is constantly being converted from the vacuum by the polarized dielectricum as well as the charged capacitor plates into a resulting electric field. And that provides the energy which is being used, by moving electrons between the plates trough the dielectricum, creating/destroying a dipole, just as inside a generator.

It just appears as though energy is stored inside the capacitor, but what actually happens is that the fields created by the polarized dielectricum and by the charged capacitor plates all but constantly cancel eachother out. When the cap charges or discharges, the resulting field in between the plates becomes just a bit stronger than needed for the dielectricum to break down, in one direction or the other, so electrons can then all but freely move between the plates and provide a current trough the terminals.

Independent from the dielectric break down in terms of insulating properties, there's the polarizing properties. The polarization can be increased or decreased, depending on the resulting field in between the plates. Since the dielectric break down properties make sure this resulting field is very small in any normal circumstance, you get a small change of the polarization, either building it up, or breaking it down.

However, there is no energy storage. It's basically the delicate balance between the dielectric break down costing or delivering current and the resulting electric field increasing/decreasing polarization that make it look like energy is being stored. while the energy really always comes from the vacuum.

Last edited by lamare; 12-19-2009 at 01:11 PM.
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  #1238  
Old 12-19-2009, 01:16 PM
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Inquorate Inquorate is offline
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Dielectric dipole

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
@JB: It turns out that indeed there are (almost) no electrons hanging to the platesl, because the dielectricum shorts out, as I posted here:



Now, where is the energy to be found?

First of all, no energy is being stored.. The energy is constantly being converted from the vacuum by the polarized dielectricum as well as the charged capacitor plates into a resulting electric field. And that provides the energy which is being used, by moving electrons between the plates trough the dielectricum, creating a dipole, just as inside a generator.

It just appears as though energy is stored inside the capacitor, but what actually happens is that the fields created by the polarized dielectricum and by the charged capacitor plates all but constantly cancel eachother out. When the cap charges or discharges, the resulting field in between the plates becomes just a bit stronger than needed for the dielectricum to break down, in one direction or the other, so electrons can then all but freely move between the plates and provide a current trough the terminals.

Independent from the dielectric break down in terms of insulating properties, there's the polarizing properties. The polarization can be increased or decreased, depending on the resulting field in between the plates. Since the dielectric break down properties make sure this resulting field is very small in any normal circumstance, you get a small change of the polarization, either building it up, or breaking it down.

However, there is no energy storage. It's basically the delicate balance between the dielectric break down costing or delivering current and the resulting electric field increasing/decreasing polarization that make it look like energy is being stored. while the energy really always comes from the vacuum.
Lamare; perhaps the electrons aren't being transported through the stressed / polarized dielectric;

When a capacitor is charged up, the electrons on the plate (+) become potentialised by 1) 'current' (electron spin) or 2) potential.

This creates a static field just like rubbing glass on lambs' wool, and like a coil of wire holding a magnetic field, creates a condition in the aether.

Like you said, this is a 'dipole'. Or a polarity and thus flow (think of ionosphere to ground potential difference, and resulting flow of aether which causes gravity) of aether.

When the aether is directed to flow or stream onto a metal plate, electrons are deposited or removed, or excited into a higher potential vs lower potential - however one chooses to see it...

Spikes create the Electret effect because unidirectional dc voltage spikes cause the aether to move. Elongated voltage potential flows start to shake electrons which causes measurable 'current'.

So, 'conditioned' capacitors are the aetheric equivalent of a waterwheel.

Where is the energy stored in a capacitor? Trick question. not on the plates, not in the dielectric. But the polarized dielectric AND the capacitor plates together can constantly create an observable 'charge' - until your conventional electric circuit uses that charge to essentially dissipate the aetheric stream by destroying the condition causing it.

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  #1239  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:52 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
Where is the energy stored in a capacitor? Trick question. not on the plates, not in the dielectric. But the polarized dielectric AND the capacitor plates together can constantly create an observable 'charge' - until your conventional electric circuit uses that charge to essentially dissipate the aetheric stream by destroying the condition causing it.
..... Unless you flip the charge back and forth between different sets of plates, AKA the Tesla Switch
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  #1240  
Old 12-19-2009, 04:00 PM
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On Wimshurst machines and capacitors

Hi all,

Half page down, section "On Wimshurst machines and capacitors", there is an explanation of the "Dissectable Leyden Jar.":
ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS: Capacitor
Personally I have to read it again...

/Hob
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  #1241  
Old 12-19-2009, 06:35 PM
captainpecan captainpecan is offline
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SSG Tesla Switch combo

Sorry if someone has already posted this, as I just found this thread a few days ago (thanks Bit's) and I am still trying to read all the posts. I have also been working on various TS configurations, but there is one I have not tried yet but looks promising. With all the configurations that JB has done and everyone else, I was hoping if someone has tried this if they could give a bit of feed back. In the pic I dont show the switching, just the simple layout. Obviously I intend on rotating the batteries, still working on the best way. Maybe a 4 pole, each fires with it's own battery configuration. You will notice an astounding resemblance to the SSG, lol... So I'm sure JB has probably been down this road before... I'm debating on dropping the trigger circuit, and using a reed to base from primary to allow a bit more torque to the energizer design. Maybe get some extra torque out of the already very efficient energizer? Any thoughts?
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Last edited by captainpecan; 12-19-2009 at 06:47 PM.
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  #1242  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:30 PM
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John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
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Tesla Switch

I would go with Eric Dollard on this one.

Eric Dollard and Tesla
JB





Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
Lamare; perhaps the electrons aren't being transported through the stressed / polarized dielectric;

When a capacitor is charged up, the electrons on the plate (+) become potentialised by 1) 'current' (electron spin) or 2) potential.

This creates a static field just like rubbing glass on lambs' wool, and like a coil of wire holding a magnetic field, creates a condition in the aether.

Like you said, this is a 'dipole'. Or a polarity and thus flow (think of ionosphere to ground potential difference, and resulting flow of aether which causes gravity) of aether.

When the aether is directed to flow or stream onto a metal plate, electrons are deposited or removed, or excited into a higher potential vs lower potential - however one chooses to see it...

Spikes create the Electret effect because unidirectional dc voltage spikes cause the aether to move. Elongated voltage potential flows start to shake electrons which causes measurable 'current'.

So, 'conditioned' capacitors are the aetheric equivalent of a waterwheel.

Where is the energy stored in a capacitor? Trick question. not on the plates, not in the dielectric. But the polarized dielectric AND the capacitor plates together can constantly create an observable 'charge' - until your conventional electric circuit uses that charge to essentially dissipate the aetheric stream by destroying the condition causing it.

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  #1243  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:33 PM
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Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpecan View Post
Sorry if someone has already posted this, as I just found this thread a few days ago (thanks Bit's) and I am still trying to read all the posts. I have also been working on various TS configurations, but there is one I have not tried yet but looks promising. With all the configurations that JB has done and everyone else, I was hoping if someone has tried this if they could give a bit of feed back. In the pic I dont show the switching, just the simple layout. Obviously I intend on rotating the batteries, still working on the best way. Maybe a 4 pole, each fires with it's own battery configuration. You will notice an astounding resemblance to the SSG, lol... So I'm sure JB has probably been down this road before... I'm debating on dropping the trigger circuit, and using a reed to base from primary to allow a bit more torque to the energizer design. Maybe get some extra torque out of the already very efficient energizer? Any thoughts?
I tried this and similar set ups and found no improvement over john's original schematic but that doesn't necessarily mean you will have the same results
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  #1244  
Old 12-19-2009, 09:42 PM
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More D-TS Test Results

Ok Team, more observations. I have now hooked my D-TS to the "Big Boy" batteries, 235 CCA tractor batteries. I am only testing in the "charge mode" if you will. Batts 2 an 4 steady at 12.22 and 12.50 respectfully. Batts 1 and 3 climbing (slowly) now at 12.3 and 12.4 respectfully. Q2 is pulsed at 300 milli seconds and is luke warm to the touch. Battery charge bulb is not illumenated. Load of of J5 load terminal is a 150 turn coil of 18 awg approx. with 1.3 ohms with welding rod core. I don't believe that I am getting the "Punch" out of the Tranny to get a good spike, usally like I see with the SG. When I increase the "on time" for the tranny, they heat up fast. The batt light pulses at that point.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Bit's
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  #1245  
Old 12-19-2009, 10:28 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
I would go with Eric Dollard on this one.

Eric Dollard and Tesla
JB
Thanks a lot!
Here is more from Dollard, including the above article, this time with the figures:
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)

Note this:

Quote:
Steinmetz mentions this in his introductory book Electric Discharges, Waves and Impulses. To quote, "Unfortunately, to large extent in dealing with dielectric fields the prehistoric conception of the electrostatic charge (electron) on the conductor still exists, and by its use destroys the analogy between the two components of the electric field, the magnetic and the dielectric, and makes the consideration of dielectric fields unnecessarily complicated."
Quote:
Steinmetz continues, "There is obviously no more sense in thinking of the capacity current as current which charges the conductor with a quantity of electricity, than there is of speaking of the inductance voltage as charging the conductor with a quantity of magnetism. But the latter conception, together with the notion of a quantity of magnetism, etc., has vanished since Faraday's representation of the magnetic field by lines of force."
3. Theory and Calculation of Transient Electric Phenomena and Oscillations, C. P. Steinmetz, third edition, 1920....


Dollard brings up an interesting question:

Quote:
QUESTION AS TO THE VELOCITY OF DIELECTRIC FLUX
It has been stated that all magnetic lines of force must be closed upon themselves, and that all dielectric lines of force must terminate upon a conducting surface. It can be inferred from these two basic laws that no line of force can terminate in free space. This created an interesting question as to the state of dielectric flux lines before the field has had time to propagate to the neutral conductor. During this time it would seem that the lines of force, not having reached the distant neutral conductor would end in space at their advancing wave front. It could be concluded that either the lines of force propagate instantly or always exists and are modified or conjugate space exists within the same boundaries as ordinary space. The properties of lines of force within this conjugate space may not obey the laws of normally conceived space.<
So, lots of food for thought.

Steinmetz's book can be downloaded here:
Internet Archive: Free Download: Theory and calculation of transient electric phenomena and oscillations

Last edited by lamare; 12-19-2009 at 10:36 PM.
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  #1246  
Old 12-19-2009, 11:14 PM
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Inquorate Inquorate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
Hi all,

Half page down, section "On Wimshurst machines and capacitors", there is an explanation of the "Dissectable Leyden Jar.":
ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS: Capacitor
Personally I have to read it again...

/Hob
This guy is right and wrong. Right; the dielectric does not always store charge. But, use the static charge to stress the dielectric while it cools from molten to solid, and it will set in stressed field.

So we would have a dielectric polarization of charge. Metal plates placed either side of the dielectric in this state, and they will 'charge' positive and negative, even though they are not part of a circuit, and electrons cannot flow.

To explain this, we need the massless aetheric stream flowing from positive to negative, IMHO.
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  #1247  
Old 12-20-2009, 01:47 AM
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Tubes of force

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
I would go with Eric Dollard on this one.

Eric Dollard and Tesla
JB
Faraday's lines of force could well be stress tubes in the aether. Like the banks of a river, directing the flow of aether.

Successive steep charge / discharge cycles of a capacitor, being the stressing and relaxation of the dielectric, could well propagate longitudinal waves in the aether that lack magnetic presence. If these intersect mass with free electrons, their potential would become raised or lowered.

Very interesting.
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  #1248  
Old 12-20-2009, 11:07 AM
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How big a load coil?

Hi Bits,

Congrats on getting your digital TSw firing -

Welcome to coil-winder's paradise (lost). How big is the diameter of your coil? If it's something like 1 inch Diam then 150 turns at an average length per turn of pi inches gives about 471 inches in coil length or about 39 ft of wire. 18AWG copper has a resistance of say 0.021 Ohms/Meter or about 0.0064 ohms/ft so an 18AWG coil of 39ft should measure about 0.25 Ohms if my calcs and assumptions are correct. You state 1.3 ohms for your coil and that sounds high - however, connection/connector resistance can be a huge PITA especially dealing with the really small battery impedances (ca 23 milliohms or so per JB). If you don't solder any better than I do, then that could be a problem, too.

Sounds like to me that you are very, very close - happy hunting!

Cheers,

Plazma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Ok Team, more observations. I have now hooked my D-TS to the "Big Boy" batteries, 235 CCA tractor batteries. I am only testing in the "charge mode" if you will. Batts 2 an 4 steady at 12.22 and 12.50 respectfully. Batts 1 and 3 climbing (slowly) now at 12.3 and 12.4 respectfully. Q2 is pulsed at 300 milli seconds and is luke warm to the touch. Battery charge bulb is not illumenated. Load of of J5 load terminal is a 150 turn coil of 18 awg approx. with 1.3 ohms with welding rod core. I don't believe that I am getting the "Punch" out of the Tranny to get a good spike, usally like I see with the SG. When I increase the "on time" for the tranny, they heat up fast. The batt light pulses at that point.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Bit's
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  #1249  
Old 12-20-2009, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazma View Post
Hi Bits,

Congrats on getting your digital TSw firing -

Welcome to coil-winder's paradise (lost). How big is the diameter of your coil? If it's something like 1 inch Diam then 150 turns at an average length per turn of pi inches gives about 471 inches in coil length or about 39 ft of wire. 18AWG copper has a resistance of say 0.021 Ohms/Meter or about 0.0064 ohms/ft so an 18AWG coil of 39ft should measure about 0.25 Ohms if my calcs and assumptions are correct. You state 1.3 ohms for your coil and that sounds high - however, connection/connector resistance can be a huge PITA especially dealing with the really small battery impedances (ca 23 milliohms or so per JB). If you don't solder any better than I do, then that could be a problem, too.

Sounds like to me that you are very, very close - happy hunting!

Cheers,

Plazma
Thanks Plazma, I am re-checking the values and connections.

Bit's
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  #1250  
Old 12-20-2009, 02:20 PM
Murlin Murlin is offline
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battery resistance

Way to go Bits

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Would not the resistance be relative to the applied load?

It is my understanding that one must balance the resistance of all your wires and connections to equal the same resistance that is in your batteries.

Thanks,

Murlin
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:04 PM
gandyman gandyman is offline
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Hello team,
short intro aboud my person....
I am 53 years old and from the Netherlands <and> write bad Englisch so probally you need to read slow my post..

I follow all this and John Bedini and others real close and have so my ideas with are to complicated to write down here.
Made a new design (scheme) on paper and will soon test this wen I have the parts to assemble it.

anyway to answer your question Murlin ?

26 years ago I made a device for this becouse you can see on the resistance from a car battery if it will work normally or if the car dont want to start after a cold night.
So you need to buy a new battery...

A new 12v lead acid battery has a internal resistance from 8 ohm.
From 22 ohm to 52 ohm it will be a bad battery.
And from 52 ohm and higher it is no more usabell in a car.

This all wen it is in use and under load the normal way.
I dont know how this battery wil work wen it is loaded the Bedini way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlin View Post

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Murlin
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Old 12-20-2009, 04:50 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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A Small Needle in a BIG Haystack . . .

Hi Murlin,

Sounds like you have puzzled on the same enigma (riding on
the horns of a paradox) as I have . . . I get screwy, non-
repetetive results when I'm brave enough to try with a
conventional digital meter. Here's my thoughts (so far) on the
problem:

It's like sifting fly crap out of pepper - the number in question
is soooo small it probably takes a special bridge-type device to
measure and one has to buck out or null out the battery's
voltage so no current flows to otherwise cause self-heating in
your bridge elements. Kind of like the problem in very accurately
measuring Temperature using a Platinum Resistance Bulb that
has 3 or 4 leads and is specifically designed for a bridge type
measurement - it's designed to help you null out and/or
compensate for possible self-heating effects from the excitation
source - and, such a bulb is typically 100 ohms at 0 deg C.

Adding insult to injury, the cost of NTS-certified resistor
shunts that get down into the range of battery internal
resistances is fierce.

Now, some clever, enterprising magician much faster of thought
and foot than I might have a neat answer to this, and more
power to him/her -

I'm still searching and cogitating . . .

Best to You,

Plazma


Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlin View Post
Way to go Bits

Hi guys. I had a few questions on checking the internal resistance of the batteries.


What is the best way to test your batteries to determine the resistance for balancing?

Would not the resistance be relative to the applied load?

It is my understanding that one must balance the resistance of all your wires and connections to equal the same resistance that is in your batteries.

Thanks,

Murlin
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:32 PM
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John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
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Tesla Switch

Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:42 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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More on Internal Resistance of a Battery . . .

Murlin, et al -

It might be possible to get an approximation of internal
resistance as follows:

1: Using a DVM, get open circuit resting voltage, V0

2: Load the battery terminals with a precision resistor Rl of
enough ohms to limit current and quickly measure load voltage Vl

3: Calculate an approximate internal resistance using this
equation:

Ri = Rl * ((Vo/Vl) - 1)

It might be better to use a meaningful few Rl's of different
values and a spread sheet - not sure - the rub is the heating
of the Rl can cause errors bigger than the Ri one is trying to
measure so I'm not guaranteeing real accurate results with
this method - but, it might get one in the ball park with a
fair amount of fiddling . . .

Best,

Plazma
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:48 PM
redcar1957 redcar1957 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B
John B, I hope you and Rick and your families have a safe and happy holidays!!!!
I like what you said keep it simple to start!!!!
Best to ya'll
Kevin
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:21 PM
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John_Bedini John_Bedini is offline
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Tesla Switch

Plazma,
I can give you The impedance's of the batteries as we have a machine that measures that. This also depends on the state of charge. most of the batteries measure .0023 Ohms.
You can only have 1/2 volt before the battery is dead on a start battery. On a deep cycle you can have 1.73 volts until discharged if you want to push it. To do this you must know the state of charge, or the capacity of the battery. The battery may have much more leakage then you think this will also effect your measurement. Just trying to help.
John B
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:48 PM
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Bit's-n-Bytes Bit's-n-Bytes is offline
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More D-TS Test Results

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B
Here is some more test results. Take a look!

YouTube - TS Test 4.MPG

John, Peter, and all the brilliant folks on this forum, Happy holidays to you and yours.

Bit's
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Plazma Plazma is offline
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Off by 10x

Hi John,

Thanks for the speedy, informative reply. So, I've been talking about 23 milliohms (.023 ohms) and the real number is 0.0023 Ohms? - so, what's a factor of 10x between friends -

I figured you'd have a tester and I am paying attention to the charge state of the batteries I have. Toys in my shop include a West Mountain CBA II for running discharge tests and a BK Precision 600 charge tester. I keep my batteries when not in use off of the concrete shop floor on a thick insulator as I've heard that concrete floors, over time, can kill batteries as the case leakage can be real and quite parasitic not to mention air losses. My best lie detector is an Agilent 5-1/2 digit multimeter (+ scopes and other stuff). I'm still a beginner learning as much as I can.

The batteries I have are 8 new, 18 AHr 12Volt PowerSonics (sealed). Right at the moment I am anxiously waiting for new diodes so I can finish my 2cd build of the switch - can't wait.

Thanks for the suggestions and your generosity - words can't cover it - and all the best for a very Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Cheers,

Plazma

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Plazma,
I can give you The impedance's of the batteries as we have a machine that measures that. This also depends on the state of charge. most of the batteries measure .0023 Ohms.
You can only have 1/2 volt before the battery is dead on a start battery. On a deep cycle you can have 1.73 volts until discharged if you want to push it. To do this you must know the state of charge, or the capacity of the battery. The battery may have much more leakage then you think this will also effect your measurement. Just trying to help.
John B
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:54 PM
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ldissing ldissing is offline
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Posts: 395
Inductors and TS

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Gang,
I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it. My experiment was only to see if I could increase the frequency so that the inductor would show a node of power, which it did. I take the blame for this as I should have stated that we just want to build the switch simplified instead of adding all the transistors. I will post what I mean. I have been testing for weeks now. The Tesla switch is Ron B's way of trying to duplicate the dual relay charger. Peter and I are still searching for the information so we can post it all to the group.

I think what Ron B was trying to do was extend the power from four batteries, which I found it does. I need to post more information on what others have done. I want to try this with PNP's also, but my time is running out. I have some grants I must get done right after Christmas, I will stay on this group no matter how busy I am, you can count on that. If I disappear for a few days no worry You All have a Merry Christmas.
John B
@JB,

You said, "I must be missing something here. The Tesla switch does not have any inductors in it." You have first hand experience that people see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. What was shown or said is not what they see or hear, so it is all personal interpretation. This is true for me, you, and everybody, so I am not dissing any one.

I believe that every one could be missing something, like how power can be taken from the TS. You posed that question some time ago and everyone is trying to figure out how to take the power out of the system. So, people are using inductors and other things, which was what you were using in the scalar charger, not the TS. You were using light bulbs for the TS, I think, not inductors. BUT, you were NOT trying to take power from the TS, I think?

I believe the correct answer is, "Just use the batteries directly", you don't need the TS for power, but the TS can be used to "charge" the batteries, so you would then have a continuous supply of power, using one and charging 4. Take one out, replace the drained one, and continue on. But that was just my interpretation, use the TS as a charger, using potential only to charge the batteries in the TS. My other thought was that at 50% duty cycle, you could use the TS as a power source and it would run longer than 4 batteries alone, I still believe this to be the case, but I am not testing at the moment...can't, but I will be soon, I hope.

So, you indicated three uses for the TS. I see it as: 1. Battery charging, 2. taking power at 50% duty cycle prolonging the usage of the 4 batteries, and 3. unsure. Still up for grabs on the third use.

Can't wait to be home. My TS setup awaits my return.

Have a merry Christmas and happy New Year, JB...and all !!!

Leroy
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Last edited by ldissing; 12-20-2009 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:26 PM
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Inquorate Inquorate is offline
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Inductors

If you put an inductor in a ts, and do not disconnect the inductor from the series side while the parallel side is still connected, and have a recovery diode, the voltage spike will take from the series side.

I'm still nutting out the details but agree with john bedini, the TS in basic form should not have inductors.
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