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  #4231  
Old 12-29-2015, 06:33 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
In the drawing you post under the 555 timer you have "Driver Transistors". This is where the problem is. You are most likely using an NPN to turn on from high signal, and PNP to turn on the low.
I do not know what power level your using through your 55 but 12 volt is most likely.
So picture what I am telling you.
The NPN is ON to drive one side. You have 12 volt on the base of the NPN to keep it ON and hold the PNP OFF.

Now your signal goes LOW, but it take time even if it seems fast it takes time. The NPN will not shut off until you are around .5 volt on the signal. The PNP turns ON as soon as you .5 volt of difference between the signal and the power on the Emitter. Current can start to flow.
Think about what I am telling you.

During the transition between HIGH and LOW, both transistors are on. So are the transistors between the batteries. You had big heat problems I did not follow that earlier because I did not know how your were driving this.
Those "driver transistors" are small BC549's to drive the optocouplers.
555 -> Dflipflop -> BC549 -> optocoupler
I simply don't want to drive the optocouplers directly from the Dflipflop's outputs. There was an early TS version with 2*3 optocoupluer

So, i shoud use a small delay after every switching to let the conducting transistor goes off before the other one starts conducting right?

I can do it, i have a spare board with an fpga around. I realy want to get rid of the 555 anyway.
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  #4232  
Old 12-29-2015, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kepszlok View Post
Those "driver transistors" are small BC549's to drive the optocouplers.
555 -> Dflipflop -> BC549 -> optocoupler
I simply don't want to drive the optocouplers directly from the Dflipflop's outputs. There was an early TS version with 2*3 optocoupluer

So, i shoud use a small delay after every switching to let the conducting transistor goes off before the other one starts conducting right?

I can do it, i have a spare board with an fpga around. I realy want to get rid of the 555 anyway.
Just enough off time to make sure things have completely turned off. Its easy with an IC it won't execute the next command until its done with the current command so that give you ample time.
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  #4233  
Old 12-29-2015, 06:43 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Just enough off time to make sure things have completely turned off. Its easy with an IC it won't execute the next command until its done with the current command so that give you ample time.
Got it, thank you! I will be back when the new system works.
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  #4234  
Old 01-10-2016, 03:34 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Well, my new clock source with fpga are produces nice and clean square waves but it didn't really improved the situation.

See picture1, that shows the optocoupler's 'output'. Picture2 shows the voltage in the toroid's primers.

That crossing between the switchings are conserns me. It takes 2ms while both switches are on, right? Shoud i add a 3ms "all off" delay between the switchings?
2ms rise / fall time are not a short time, what can cause it? I can only think to the transformer's inductance.


Picture3 is different, i put a 0.22ohm power resistor in series with one of the primers to get some current values to calculations. At the moments of switching on, the current goes up to around 3A (630mV spike) and then it stabilizes very fast at around 0.6A (120mV).
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  #4235  
Old 01-10-2016, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kepszlok View Post
Well, my new clock source with fpga are produces nice and clean square waves but it didn't really improved the situation.

See picture1, that shows the optocoupler's 'output'. Picture2 shows the voltage in the toroid's primers.

That crossing between the switchings are conserns me. It takes 2ms while both switches are on, right? Shoud i add a 3ms "all off" delay between the switchings?
2ms rise / fall time are not a short time, what can cause it? I can only think to the transformer's inductance.


Picture3 is different, i put a 0.22ohm power resistor in series with one of the primers to get some current values to calculations. At the moments of switching on, the current goes up to around 3A (630mV spike) and then it stabilizes very fast at around 0.6A (120mV).
You should have a clear off time between the two side. Your close but it might still be crossed over a bit.
I am not sure if it will make a difference. You can look to the signal of an inverter both from the low voltage side and then to the inductor. A pure sine inverter has very small pulses but on the inductor they look like one pulse.
So maybe adding a larger off time will help clear the inductor before it switch's directions. If you can, that is.

Matt
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  #4236  
Old 01-10-2016, 07:55 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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You should have a clear off time between the two side. Your close but it might still be crossed over a bit.
I am not sure if it will make a difference. You can look to the signal of an inverter both from the low voltage side and then to the inductor. A pure sine inverter has very small pulses but on the inductor they look like one pulse.
So maybe adding a larger off time will help clear the inductor before it switch's directions. If you can, that is.

Matt
I added 3ms delay between the switchings, where both driver signals are off. This has absolutly no effect on the crossing, the oscillogram are the same. I will try with more delay tomorrow.
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  #4237  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:53 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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Sorry to interrupt, But can a cap that is gaining in charge(as the mag rotor is turning) be used to fire a transistor?
It's just a switch right?
Thanks for any help.
artv
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  #4238  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by shylo View Post
Sorry to interrupt, But can a cap that is gaining in charge(as the mag rotor is turning) be used to fire a transistor?
It's just a switch right?
Thanks for any help.
artv
Confirm this because it is basic electronics 101. When you serialize 2 capacitors you loose 50% of your energy. If you are strictly using capacitors you are throwing away power. Make sure to confirm this by understanding BASIC electronics.

Confirm this as well...Capacitors do not charge and discharge and the same ratio unless they are high quality capacitors. Which means LOW ESR rating and High frequency resonant behavior with very small capacitance.

Last capacitors are not the answer for every project posted. Please avoid confusion and specifically state your theory as per the SUBJECT of each thread. Along with theory please post relevant examples of your relatively simple answer to everything. Only through example is a case made for change or possible experimentation. Using the same suggestion multiple time over multiple thread may expose ignorance and result in humiliation.

Thanks you for your suggestion, no further suggestions without example are needed. Thank you.
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  #4239  
Old 01-11-2016, 07:14 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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I added 3ms delay between the switchings, where both driver signals are off. This has absolutly no effect on the crossing, the oscillogram are the same. I will try with more delay tomorrow.
Adding much more delay showed an intersting thing. After switching off a side, it's voltage are drops slowley while the other primer's voltage startes to rise up. It's normal, the mutual induction does this, but this can also be the source of the problems because there will be always some crossing while the two primer sits on the same core. - if i'm right.

I'm running out of ideas. I will rebuild the whole circuit tomorrow from wire to wire, hope it helps but i'm sure of it is built properly.
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  #4240  
Old 01-11-2016, 11:12 PM
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Must have something to do with the toroid. I have something running right now that is similar with a small ferrite transformer, EE core or something like that, anyway it has clear off time. I have never tried the outlined circuit with a toroid. Always used EI cores.

I wish I could hand you the magic bullet and fix the problem, unfortunately...

If your willing to move on you come to the Basic Free Energy Device and start using boost circiuts instead of transformers. It really does work better.


Matt
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  #4241  
Old 01-13-2016, 04:36 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Hmm, intresting, but now i got a small EI core to play with, just need some time to do the wireing. Hope that will change something. I put too much hours in this circuit to just give up.


I also thinking about high frequency switching with a ferrite toroid core. I have some dead pc PSU with a couple of them.
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  #4242  
Old 01-13-2016, 04:54 PM
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Toroid

Glad to see you have moved on from the torrid. As I said in post #4221

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Here's one hint I will give you for free. You will spend a lot of time beating your head against a wall if you are trying to use a torrid. But then again, you may discover something no one before you has discovered. These things DO happen.
That I know of, nobody has gotten a Tesla type switch to work with a Torroid.
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  #4243  
Old 01-13-2016, 05:07 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Glad to see you have moved on from the torrid. As I said in post #4221

That I know of, nobody has gotten a Tesla type switch to work with a Torroid.
I'm verry curious about the reason behind this. I hope at least when the EI works, we can formulate some theory with inductivity, different core materials, etc. From a pure electronic view, a low frequency toroid and an EI core are verry similar, just the toroid has higher efficency in voltage coupling, requires less secunder wireing.

I also like to see a .xls or something about the voltages vs running time from somebody who has a working TS. I'm here for some time, but i don't remember such a document.
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  #4244  
Old 01-14-2016, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kepszlok View Post
I'm verry curious about the reason behind this. I hope at least when the EI works, we can formulate some theory with inductivity, different core materials, etc. From a pure electronic view, a low frequency toroid and an EI core are verry similar, just the toroid has higher efficency in voltage coupling, requires less secunder wireing.

I also like to see a .xls or something about the voltages vs running time from somebody who has a working TS. I'm here for some time, but i don't remember such a document.

I have always looked at toroid more like a flywheel, you know "Once in Motion..." and all that. You can store quite a bit of energy in certain size core. And that is not necessarily what your looking for.

Matt
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  #4245  
Old 04-18-2016, 01:18 PM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation Why transformer instead of inverter as the load?

I want to asked John Bedini or Mathew Jones(Others also welcome) why use transformer as load instead of an inverter (12V to 220V)? Is it because the diodes, transistors do consume some voltage which will lead to the fact that the load(inverter) cannot get enough voltage for it to operate?

Also, is an inverter belongs to an inductive load or resistive load?

Also, can I use the sink/source current of output pin of ne555 timer to drive the bases of the transistors(which acts as switches) instead of opto-isolator because the adding of optoisolator to the tesla switch circuit make it more bulky and tedious to handle?
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  #4246  
Old 04-18-2016, 02:06 PM
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Hi Holtage,

An inverter needs DC as the input power. Since we are switching power back and forth the inverter would see that as AC power and the inverter would not work and would probably even be destroyed if it didn't have polarity protection built in.

And an inverter is an inductive load as it switches the DC power into AC power it does act more as an inductive load than a resistive load.

You will run into all kinds of problems if you try to switch the transistors directly from the output of a 555 timer chip. You can use the timer chip to switch the opto-isolators. The opto-isolators do not make the circuit more tedious. They actually make the circuit much easier to control and less complicated than without them.

The problem with using the output of the 555 directly is that for a NPN transistor to turn on, the base must be made more positive than the emitter. Since the transistors in the Tesla Switch are all over the place there is no way to control them directly that will make each different base positive in relation to that transistor's emitter. I hope that makes sense.

You should also be aware that the circuit you are looking at was developed over several months of effort mostly by Matt with some of the rest of us helping with the testing. If you want it to work you need to build it like shown.

Carroll
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  #4247  
Old 04-19-2016, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by holtage View Post
I want to asked John Bedini or Mathew Jones(Others also welcome) why use transformer as load instead of an inverter (12V to 220V)? Is it because the diodes, transistors do consume some voltage which will lead to the fact that the load(inverter) cannot get enough voltage for it to operate?

Also, is an inverter belongs to an inductive load or resistive load?

Also, can I use the sink/source current of output pin of ne555 timer to drive the bases of the transistors(which acts as switches) instead of opto-isolator because the adding of optoisolator to the tesla switch circuit make it more bulky and tedious to handle?

I have actually stopped using transformers and went using voltage regulators or boost circuits. I also do not switch back and forth rapidly that was done to drive the transformer.

I like this one:
400W DC DC Boost Converter Step Up Panel Module Power Supply BST400W | eBay

On the output side you can use just use the positive output to the positive of the charge battery, you do not need to use the ground side of the regulator.

Also you need 3 banks of batteries 2 batteries per bank. 2 batts in serial discharging, 2 batts in parallel charging and 2 batts resting. All the switching you need at this point should rotate the batteries in circle based on the voltage of the charge batteries. If the batteries is between 14.8 and 15.2 send it to a resting position.
Look up Carlos F Benitez, his patents cover this very circuit except they are from 1918 so his language is a bit mysterious sounding. His only attempt was to regulate the output power but his system was really solid.

If you need anything post, I check EF about 1 once week so if i am not quik about answering don't worry I'll be here sooner or later.

Cheers
Matt
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  #4248  
Old 04-19-2016, 07:35 AM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation Bridge rectifier can convert ac into dc

hi citfta, mathew jones

citfta, you said that the inverter will see the current as ac and cannot work, that's why the bridge rectifier comes into the play. The bridge rectifier ensures that the inverter see the current as dc (always the same direction). Isn't it?
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  #4249  
Old 04-19-2016, 10:46 AM
citfta citfta is offline
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Yes you are correct. You could use a bridge and a large capacitor to smooth out the DC pulses and an inverter would probably work as long as the voltage was in the proper range.

But now you are changing AC to DC to run an inverter to change it back to AC again. All those conversions have some losses.

Carroll
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  #4250  
Old 04-19-2016, 11:53 AM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation Do I need to add an extra capacitor to smooth out the DC pulses?

Do I need to add an extra capacitor(the third one) to smooth out the DC pulses? Or the two original capacitors in the tesla switch circuit can help smooth out the dc pulses to the inverter already(i.e. there is no need to add an extra large capacitor, total only two capacitor is enough in the circuit?)?
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  #4251  
Old 04-20-2016, 01:28 AM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation Is there anyone can help me?

Can anyone reply my previous comment?
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  #4252  
Old 04-20-2016, 10:23 AM
citfta citfta is offline
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The bridge rectifier puts out pulsing DC. As I already explained you need a large capacitor after the bridge to smooth out the pulses from the bridge. The other capacitors are before the bridge.
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  #4253  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:41 PM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation More questions regarding tesla switch

Hi John Bedini, Mathew Jones, other people!

I am here to asked: The tesla switch circuit need to power the IC which controls the switching of current of the circuit, I just wonder should there be an additional battery(the 5th battery) to power the IC, or just one of the four batteries of the tesla switch to power the IC?

Also, I wonder what should be maxi current(or the thickness/AWG) rating of electric/magnet wires used in tesla switch circuit. For example, what's the difference between powering a 1000W appliance and a 10000W appliance?
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  #4254  
Old 05-04-2016, 08:03 PM
holtage holtage is offline
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Exclamation Is there anyone can reply my previous comment?

Is there anyone can reply my previous comment?
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  #4255  
Old 05-07-2016, 12:11 PM
Kepszlok Kepszlok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holtage View Post
Hi John Bedini, Mathew Jones, other people!

I am here to asked: The tesla switch circuit need to power the IC which controls the switching of current of the circuit, I just wonder should there be an additional battery(the 5th battery) to power the IC, or just one of the four batteries of the tesla switch to power the IC?

Also, I wonder what should be maxi current(or the thickness/AWG) rating of electric/magnet wires used in tesla switch circuit. For example, what's the difference between powering a 1000W appliance and a 10000W appliance?
1: it's for simplicity. But some DC regulator like an old 7805 are required here to produce the supply of your pulse source. (there are spikes in the battery when the TS running).

Of corse, you can use a 5. battery instead if you like. Just nothing will charge it.

2: It's not Tesla switch relevant. Phisicsy clearly shows that with P=U*I: 1000W/12V means 83A so AWG10 or better required. It also marks size and weight requirements for the transformer core.


Have you tries to build a TS?
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  #4256  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:51 AM
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Here's a circuit that can switch batteries from 12 to 24v.
It needs to have a fuse on every battery terminal. Both positives and negatives.
Plus because it uses fets, the batteries can only be pluugged into the main switching circuit when the sig gen board (not shown yet) is powered up, or the gates will be left floating, and if this happens then at least the terminals were fused.

The signal gen circuit is just two 555 timers. The master is in astable mode on a fairly generic type external rc timer circuit, dirivng the slave, which is in bistable mode, so that when one outputs high the other outputs low.
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  #4257  
Old 07-11-2016, 07:47 AM
kryszal05 kryszal05 is offline
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Hi All,

I am new on this forum and English is not my first language, so I'm sorry for any mistakes.

Maybe I missed something, but this topic is very long. I would like to build a TS, where should I start? Which diagram should I use?

Thanks for any help,
Lukasz
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  #4258  
Old 07-11-2016, 12:18 PM
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We are doing the latest work over here. Start about page 35.
Basic Free Energy Device

Matt
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  #4259  
Old 07-13-2016, 10:38 AM
kryszal05 kryszal05 is offline
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Thanks Matt. I will start read this topic.
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  #4260  
Old 08-12-2016, 04:29 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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We are doing the latest work over here. Start about page 35.
Basic Free Energy Device

Matt
Thanks Matt
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