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  #3031  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:37 PM
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Forgot the top switch
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Last edited by Matthew Jones; 08-18-2010 at 09:21 PM.
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  #3032  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:40 PM
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I was wrong
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  #3033  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:43 PM
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I will have to start eating the 2 led's. Apparently there is some arsenide in. LOL
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  #3034  
Old 08-18-2010, 06:46 PM
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I love it, whats life without humor. LOL

Matt
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  #3035  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
This is probably what they call Disinformation.
Now who will you believe. John Bedini's diagrams on this thread or P. O Kelly that cannot even get a 555 circuit correct. Go look at the Dave Lawton 555 circuits if you don't believe me.
If you get the Tesla switch circuit to work like that I will eat my Tesla switch pc board with all it's transistors and all the batteries to!!
And the nuts and bolts and wires.
Patrick Kelly's 2,288 page book is a huge lot of info to write. I think I would cut him some slack for an occasional error He has been very helpful and quick to respond to email. He's also helping me get in touch with the one other person known to have success with this setup recently when the diodes were reversed (from the old diagrams).
Personally I've witnessed and had hands on a RE circuit that did just the opposite of what you would expect from a normal circuit. That was when I put a wire across a glowing light bulb expecting it to go out or get a lot dimmer but instead it got brighter ( a cold electricity demo or so it was called). So I don't rule out anything as impossible until I've tried it.
BTW I won't hold you to eating your TS board but would be thrilled if you'd try this one too.
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  #3036  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Better get you ketchup out boy, It works.
And if you follow the power you'll see why.
It does an uneven charge only the top 2 batteries catch a charge.

I have never tested one that did it this way but it may show some potential.

BUT FOR SURE IT RUNS. Check the flow of power.

Matt
Awesome. Thanks for pushing this forward! Now I know I've got to try this. Did you have a load on it at the FWBR? I think it said that was important to have in place.
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  #3037  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:24 PM
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Ewizard.
The more I look at the drawing Vissie's right. I got the switch backwards on top.

But you don't need the top switch at all.

I went back and deleted everything I said.

Sorry about that.

Matt
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  #3038  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
If the wrong switch on top gets switched the top batteries will charge like hell.
24V to only one 12v battery.
Is it possible that you are switching the wrong switch?
I haven't spent anytime really looking at the circuit but I thought I remembered something about it putting 36 volts across one battery at a time (but of course very briefly I think in the milliseconds range).
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  #3039  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Ewizard.
The more I look at the drawing Vissie's right. I got the switch backwards on top.

But you don't need the top switch at all.

I went back and deleted everything I said.

Sorry about that.

Matt
Oops. So you don't think it works? Did you have a load on the FWBR? (Electrodyne corp said they had a 30 HP motor on it). I still would like to try this as I know all it takes is one tiny detail to make or break the success. Were you using relays or a rotary setup like PK shows in Chapter 5 page 6? I think I have a design somewhat worked out for that rotary/brush setup in my head if I can get the time to build it. And I do think it is part of what may make or break the success in this one. I'll also let you know if/when I hear from Jim (the guy PK said had success with it) any details I might get from him. Thanks for your efforts
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Last edited by ewizard; 08-18-2010 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Added info on motor for load
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  #3040  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
Patrick Kelly's 2,288 page book is a huge lot of info to write. I think I would cut him some slack for an occasional error He has been very helpful and quick to respond to email. He's also helping me get in touch with the one other person known to have success with this setup recently when the diodes were reversed (from the old diagrams).
Personally I've witnessed and had hands on a RE circuit that did just the opposite of what you would expect from a normal circuit. That was when I put a wire across a glowing light bulb expecting it to go out or get a lot dimmer but instead it got brighter ( a cold electricity demo or so it was called). So I don't rule out anything as impossible until I've tried it.
BTW I won't hold you to eating your TS board but would be thrilled if you'd try this one too.
I am sorry Patrick. Your stuff is awesome, Just fix that 555 circuit!
Ewizard
Would you share that RE circuit with us . I am sure once i witnessed something like that I will start looking at reversed biased diodes to let radiant energy through
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  #3041  
Old 08-18-2010, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
I am sorry Patrick. Your stuff is awesome, Just fix that 555 circuit!
Ewizard
Would you share that RE circuit with us . I am sure once i witnessed something like that I will start looking at reversed biased diodes to let radiant energy through
Unfortunately it was not one that I built but only helped a researcher/inventor set it up at a free energy convention many years ago. I shuttled him to and from an airport for this convention and while I had my hands on it and clipped a wire across the bulb (60 watt IIRC) I didn't have access to the circuit details and what was powering the circuit but it is related to Moray's work. Sorry I can't be more help on that. It was a real to actually see it happen and the shorting wire even got cooler rather than hot as I would have expected.
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  #3042  
Old 08-18-2010, 10:16 PM
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IT is possible that with hi voltage it might work. Some time ago Arron showed HV running through a diode backward. Maybe. Those caps are not going to allow enough flow for 30 hp motor.

I set it up with a bridge and everything I just had the top switch wired backwards. It took 4 looks before I realized.

I apologize to everyone. And especially Vissie.

Matt
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  #3043  
Old 08-18-2010, 10:32 PM
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Food for Thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Like this. I cannot see it.
Nor can I.

The switches are correctly positioned to put the
LEFT BANK in series to power the load;

The RIGHT BANK in parallel to receive 'load current'
as Charge Current;

LEFT BANK (minus) RIGHT BANK (equals) 12 Volts across Load

But, check the diodes at Batt 3 and Batt 4. Are
they positioned properly to permit Load Current
and Charge Current?

Wouldn't it work best if the diodes were REVERSED from
the way they're shown?

Hint:

As shown the diodes will block current flow in the entire
circuit.

Also, for Stevan and others who are working on the
Charge Pump circuit (PV):

See second thumbnail Basi[c] Charge Pump Doubler
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Can you figure out how it works?

Could you put the principle to use?
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  #3044  
Old 08-19-2010, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Nor can I.

The switches are correctly positioned to put the
LEFT BANK in series to power the load;

The RIGHT BANK in parallel to receive 'load current'
as Charge Current;

LEFT BANK (minus) RIGHT BANK (equals) 12 Volts across Load

But, check the diodes at Batt 3 and Batt 4. Are
they positioned properly to permit Load Current
and Charge Current?

Wouldn't it work best if the diodes were REVERSED from
the way they're shown?

Hint:

As shown the diodes will block current flow in the entire
circuit.

Also, for Stevan and others who are working on the
Charge Pump circuit (PV):

See second thumbnail Basi[c] Charge Pump Doubler
FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

Can you figure out how it works?

Could you put the principle to use?
There is some detailed info in the attached document on the second thumbnail and credit to the authors
HOW TO DRIVE MOSFETs AND IGBTs INTO
THE 21ST CENTURY
By
Mr. Abhijit D. Pathak and Mr. Ralph E. Locher,
IXYS Corporation
Santa Clara, CA 95054

Jeff
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  #3045  
Old 08-19-2010, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
There is some detailed info in the attached document on the second thumbnail and credit to the authors
HOW TO DRIVE MOSFETs AND IGBTs INTO
THE 21ST CENTURY
By
Mr. Abhijit D. Pathak and Mr. Ralph E. Locher,
IXYS Corporation
Santa Clara, CA 95054

Jeff
Excellent!

That and other very interesting and informative
documents may be downloaded here:

IXYS Technical Resources | Applications

Read as many as you're able to find some
incredible 'gems' of insight to enhance your
understanding.

Simplified Battery Pulsing Circuit in thumbnail.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Basic-Charge-Pump-Battery-Pulser.jpg (70.6 KB, 162 views)
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Last edited by SeaMonkey; 08-19-2010 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Attachment
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  #3046  
Old 08-19-2010, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Excellent!

That and other very interesting and informative
documents may be downloaded here:

IXYS Technical Resources | Applications

Read as many as you're able to find some
incredible 'gems' of insight to enhance your
understanding.

Simplified Battery Pulsing Circuit in thumbnail.

There is a message here SeaMonkey, its called "Plagiarizing". Plagiarize \'pla-je-,riz also j - -\ vb -rized; -riz·ing vt [plagiary] : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (a created production) without crediting the source vi: to commit literary theft: present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source - pla·gia·riz·er n
FROM: Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary 9th ed, (Springfield, Ma: Merriam 1981, p. 870).

When I asked you to post a schematic of your thoughts, I was referring to "Yours", something you can call your own and share with the group, your own Idea proven or not. You might want to read the rules of the forum,

"2. DO NOT post messages that might infringe upon the intellectual property rights, privacy rights, rights of publicity, or other proprietary rights of others".
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  #3047  
Old 08-19-2010, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
There is a message here SeaMonkey, its called "Plagiarizing". Plagiarize \'pla-je-,riz also j - -\ vb -rized; -riz·ing vt [plagiary] : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (a created production) without crediting the source vi: to commit literary theft: present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source - pla·gia·riz·er n
FROM: Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary 9th ed, (Springfield, Ma: Merriam 1981, p. 870).

When I asked you to post a schematic of your thoughts, I was referring to "Yours", something you can call your own and share with the group, your own Idea proven or not. You might want to read the rules of the forum,

"2. DO NOT post messages that might infringe upon the intellectual property rights, privacy rights, rights of publicity, or other proprietary rights of others".
Fear not.

The circuit in question is a very old one. In
fact the 'original' was a vacuum tube
implementation.

The circuit was presented as 'food for thought'
as it has been in the 'public domain' for many,
many decades.

Now, can you see a relevant use for the
'principle' of Charge Pumping and how it
relates to the discussion?
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  #3048  
Old 08-19-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
IT is possible that with hi voltage it might work. Some time ago Arron showed HV running through a diode backward. Maybe. Those caps are not going to allow enough flow for 30 hp motor.

I set it up with a bridge and everything I just had the top switch wired backwards. It took 4 looks before I realized.

I apologize to everyone. And especially Vissie.

Matt
No problem Matt. It is good for us to get exited every now and then. It happened to me a while ago that the voltage kept rising only to find that multimeter were faulty.
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  #3049  
Old 08-19-2010, 02:31 PM
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Cool plentora of things and stuff :o)

Hi all,
I bring stuff and thoughts for all:

1. NOTE: i make errors, check my circuits and check principles against plain common sense? It is possible that i wire up a sketch that has errors in it?

2. I plan to make a 60A variant in MJL before I switch entirely to IRF and 200A
3. The brains are halfway there already (a ATmega48 based Quer from JYETech (namely 07301) (<-Google it out))
4. It will hopefully be a new version of a howto when ready
5. I hope we all make progress here not pointless arguments (please be patient an as polite as practical?) ?

now stuffs:
1. @SeaMonkey, I run tests in SPICE already regarding Your charge pumps (CP) no spikes? maybe negative ones (=bad for battery)? how come?

2. The TS PV AMP has accented unidirectional kicks that are absent in the CP You posted.

3. I re-arranged the components in the drawing You posted, hope You don't mind i re-posted it here, so we (layman) see the process better?

4. The rest are the circuits I'm currently "planning about" The MOSFET and BJT versions checked in SPICE (no hardware yet)...

5. comments:

Best regards,
Stevan C.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BJT-try01-pub.jpg (63.0 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg MOSFET-try06-pub.jpg (106.7 KB, 123 views)
File Type: jpg SM-CP-try03.jpg (29.4 KB, 110 views)
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  #3050  
Old 08-19-2010, 02:49 PM
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@SeaMonkey,
my apology for spike absence
@all
where did I go wrong before so I didn't get spikes, that I now get?


Best regards,
Stevan C.
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  #3051  
Old 08-19-2010, 03:01 PM
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Spikes are there (HO-HO-HO (=LoL) )

SeaMonkey, this is the most simple CP yet, is it public domain? Who is the autor?

This seems to be the best favorite yet, I have to run inductance sim befor i go hardware.

thanks a milion!

Stevan C.
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  #3052  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:30 PM
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That charge pump circuit SeaMonkey posted is straight out of the document above ( IXAN0009.pdf ) that Bits-n-Bytes posted. This is a bit over my head so I have to ask what is the significance of this charge pump and how can it be useful?
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  #3053  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:10 PM
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The battery is supposed to absorb better when the energy is pulsed to it. Lowers the impedance that gets higher as the battery is charged, allowing the battery to take more charge.

Matt
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  #3054  
Old 08-19-2010, 08:54 PM
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I have redrawn that circuit and it is a normal ac to dc voltage doubler with the big difference that it is pulsed dc of 400Khz on the input with sharp rise and fall times instead of 50Hz ac.
I think I will try this one sometime to see the effect on a battery.
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Last edited by nvisser; 08-27-2010 at 06:32 PM.
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  #3055  
Old 08-19-2010, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewizard View Post
That charge pump circuit SeaMonkey posted is straight out of the document above ( IXAN0009.pdf ) that Bits-n-Bytes posted. This is a bit over my head so I have to ask what is the significance of this charge pump and how can it be useful?
The 'charge pump' is a simple voltage doubler, in
its minimum form, which has many applications.

Look at the circuit configuration for the High Side
MosFet Driver Circuit. Look at Cboot.
(Search for High Side Driver Circuit diagram for layout)

See how it is charged then added to the potential
at the Source terminal of the High Side MosFet?
In order to 'charge' the Gate Capacitance to a
'higher' potential.

It is also abundantly used in low voltage applications
as a 'point of load' voltage boost circuit where a
'doubled Vcc or Vdd' is needed.

With variations it can also be configured as a
'polarity reversal' circuit.

Do a search for 'charge pump' with your favorite
search engine and acquire a 'new look' at a very
old idea.

In virtually any collection of '555 Timer Circuits' you'll
see a very popular implementation of the same
circuit. It's a favorite hobbyist circuit that sometimes
gets 'forgotten.'

The two MosFets which are stacked vertically as
depicted in the diagram, are 'key' to the circuit.

Think 'totem pole.' It is a very common and very
useful configuration that has a multitude of
applications.
the 'key' to the s
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Last edited by SeaMonkey; 08-19-2010 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Omission
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  #3056  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:48 AM
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Just out a curiosity...
What about stepping down voltage. Is there anything like that that can step down voltage just with switching no inductor's? Maybe retain some amperage.
I don't want use a voltage divider. Resistance makes heat and capacitors don't allow the amperage to flow well.

Just a side thought.
Matt
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  #3057  
Old 08-20-2010, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
Just out a curiosity...
What about stepping down voltage. Is there anything like that that can step down voltage just with switching no inductor's? Maybe retain some amperage.
I don't want use a voltage divider. Resistance makes heat and capacitors don't allow the amperage to flow well.

Just a side thought.
Matt
Here's a very old circuit from a magazine article years
ago. It didn't scan with a great deal of clarity but by
checking the transistor types you'll be able to determine
which are NPN and which are PNP.

It would be possible to upgrade this circuit with MosFets
for increased efficiency and greater output current.

The voltage regulator as used in this circuit is optional.
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Last edited by SeaMonkey; 11-05-2010 at 10:56 PM.
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  #3058  
Old 08-20-2010, 05:59 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevanC View Post
check my circuits ...
Best regards,
Stevan C.
Steven, or anyone else that recognises this format.

What program are you using
that uses a dark background please ?

I like the improved visibility from that,
and the ease of following circuit pathes
to my tired old (Ancient) eyes.

Thanks in advance


SeaMonkey, hope you don't mind.

I twiddled with your pic to bring out data.

At least the Emitters can be identified,
couldn't do anything with the OP amp insert.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Series-to-Parallel (Adjusted) .jpg (99.4 KB, 128 views)
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  #3059  
Old 08-20-2010, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

I twiddled with your pic to bring out data.

At least the Emitters can be identified,
couldn't do anything with the OP amp insert.
Your work is much appreciated by all.

Thanks!
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:10 AM
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Arrow the circuit "wizard" explained :o)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post
Steven, or anyone else that recognises this format.

What program are you using
hat uses a dark background please ?
@WeThePeople

sorry, I use Linear Technoly's LTspice/SwitherCAD from here (has merely dark BG) and once all works (=Ques as expected) i do a "maximize" of the window;
"printscreen" screen capture (as bitmap)
and I save usually as a *.png
therefrom I open up GIMP (A GNU kind of "photoshop", only better IMHO)
and there I
  • crop the pic (program interface away)
  • scale the pic (640x or 800x if small text (avoiding 1024x if possible at all)
  • invert (there from I get the excellent contrast :^) )
  • add "softglow" effect that emphasizes the edges and makes OCR a tough go
  • add "unsharp mask" to give back the good readability to human eye
  • eventually add a author/subject/licence line
  • finally save it as *.jpg for posting here (won't have *.png ? )
So this is the great "mystery" explained in broad daylight

Quote:
I like the improved visibility from that,
and the ease of following circuit pathes
to my tired old (Ancient) eyes.
I take that as a compliment to my personal effort, visibility was my original goal, besides a bit of "eye candy" ...
Quote:

Thanks in advance
(snip)
You are welcome, not that I really helped a bit

You know, once upon a time, somebody asked me:
Q:"are there great looking "wizards" in Slackware, and where are they?"
(Slackware is a sort of GNU/Linux operating system for computers)
A:"well, boy, they usually sit behind the keyboard..."


So, have in mind, there is really no substitute for knowledge as far as I can tell.

Best regards,
Stevan C.

Ah,
circuit design pictures galore continued: (a collectible graphic series "as seen on TV" )
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SM-CP-pulser.jpg (181.8 KB, 138 views)
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