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  #61  
Old 09-10-2011, 08:43 PM
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Latest Updated Diagram of Sonic Boiler (USA Version Only)

Sept. 10, 2011 Latest Upgraded Sonic Boiler Diagram: (For USA Only)

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  #62  
Old 09-10-2011, 08:59 PM
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vamnacrtao

could be

vam na ???? = you on (private conversation maybe???)

either it is pure Serbian which I do not know or it is damaged sentence

I know Russian a bit and Serbian also sometimes are similiar but not always
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  #63  
Old 09-10-2011, 09:51 PM
RAMSET RAMSET is offline
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I knew it!

Slovenia
We have to get the right beer can to start!

I'll do a "mock up"

Chet
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  #64  
Old 09-11-2011, 01:44 AM
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Right Beer Can

Chet,

I agree, and I don't know how to do that. My contact appears to be through answering questions for the time being.

We only know the following:
1) You take a can of beer from 0.5 liters, the top cover otstranice.
2) Make a ring of iron sheet larger than 2.1mm diameter cans.

This guy is a Hell of a smart guy and 2.1mm doesn't make any sense to me. A 1/2 liter can of beer would be a big can of beer I'd think unless he's talking about a 1/2 liter six pack which is possible. He's probably referring to much smaller cans in a 1/2 liter six pack. The 2.1mm diameter makes no sense either unless that is the diameter of the ring at the top of the can which is possible. He did say to remove the top cover and sand the can. Maybe he means for the top cover to be removed leaving the top part of the can inverted inward instead of being cut off perpendicular from the bottom of the can. A beveled in top to the can would have a really different effect. It would work kind of like a 9mm shell casing. Anyway, I think we're on the right track and several heads is a lot better than one.

Thanks for your help and support!!!

Regards,
Slovenia


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Slovenia
We have to get the right beer can to start!

I'll do a "mock up"

Chet
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  #65  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:03 AM
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Jelen pivo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Jelen Pivo is a light beer produced by Apatin Brewery ltd. Jelen Pivo contains 5% alcohol, belongs to the class of light lagers, and is made of high-quality[clarification needed] hops, barley and yeast. Besides Serbia, Jelen Pivo can also be found on the markets of Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, as well as Switzerland, Austria and Sweden. It is known as a beer for men, followed by the slogan: „Men know why“.
Quote:
Jelen Pivo is the leading product of the Apatin Brewery (established in 1756) and it is available on the market in the following packages: cans of 0.33 l and 0.5 l, non-returnable bottles of 0.33 l, (1 L and 2 L plastic bottles in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia Montenegro and areas within the Balkan Region),

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  #66  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:11 AM
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Thanks!!

Thanks Gordon!!

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  #67  
Old 09-11-2011, 02:15 AM
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.5 liter

The .5 liter can is what we're looking for. Where can we get them?
Thanks Gordon!!

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  #68  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:58 AM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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0.5L cans are very popular in Europe but if that must be particular beer with not standarized rim - it would be hard task !
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  #69  
Old 09-11-2011, 11:37 AM
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Standardized Rim

It's probably standardized rim. Thanks!!

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0.5L cans are very popular in Europe but if that must be particular beer with not standarized rim - it would be hard task !
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  #70  
Old 09-11-2011, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the help

If you can believe this ,No beer or any alchohol for sale in Connecticut
on sundays [like the dark ages]

I'll be playing with a coke can today ,as EXnihiloest pointed out on the other thread Acoustic resonance "sonic" water heater "working replication"?
The materials involved will creat a "tolerance" issue [flimsy]

As MonsierurM pointed out we can try "MiCa" insulator?[insulator shim stock]

And as Core pointed out water in its purist form is an insulator,so the specific gravity will be an issue with the "gap"
Meaning HIS Gap in Serbia Maybe Different than My Gap in Timbuktoo.

Such is life.....its easy enough to play with!!

Chet
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  #71  
Old 09-11-2011, 12:21 PM
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New Message from Contact

Contact Shared Again:

Sept. 11, 2011
What you supply area of the apartment, you calculate the width and thickness of the electrode, zero reba to resonate at 300 Hz. Fuse will die if you are using electricity for over 15 Amperes.

This latest information was necessary and helpful.
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  #72  
Old 09-11-2011, 05:01 PM
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Screw Clamp

A screw clamp might make a good expedient ring to get started with. At least it would be an expedient method of finding the inside diameter for our ring.
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  #73  
Old 09-11-2011, 05:49 PM
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So thats what he meant


Bless you core
you just saved me wasted work,plus you put this in a much brighter light
Ringing....................

WOW

Thanks
Chet
PS
YOu are IN NY Area have you seen his brand Beer in the deli?
I won't be in NY till mid week !

Thanks
Chet
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  #74  
Old 09-11-2011, 06:02 PM
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Thanks!!

Core,

You are absolutely correct. It would appear like you said that tuning the beer can is the most important first step. Thanks!!

Regards,
Slovenia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
According to your contact a beer can is not the only thing you can use. One only requirement appears to be that the metal fundamental resonate frequency of 60Hz or 50Hz. To get this the cylinder has to be honed/sanded until it rings.
This can be checked by mounting your cylinder on a rod next to a speaker that is sounding a 60Hz frequency. According to him if a nail is suspended very close to the open end it will ring when the can vibrates. The nail acts like an amplifier.

So step one, and the most important, is that the cylinder regardless of material used is 'tuned' to your line frequency. If this step is not completed everything else is a wash.

-Core
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  #75  
Old 09-11-2011, 06:05 PM
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.5 liter European Beer Can

Chet,

One of my European contacts said that the .5 liter beer can is a standardized European size and that you can find European beers in cans like that all over US without going with a particular brand of beer. I was asking the same question.

Regards,
Slovenia

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Originally Posted by RAMSET View Post

have you seen his brand Beer in the deli?
I won't be in NY till mid week !

Thanks
Chet
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  #76  
Old 09-11-2011, 06:08 PM
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Tuning Beer Can

This tuning the beer can could be a real pain in the neck. My contact said to sand the can but never elaborated where as I recall. That thin aluminum is hard to sand on whether your sanding on the end or the sides.
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  #77  
Old 09-11-2011, 06:18 PM
bhaas bhaas is offline
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How do you plan on getting it to resonate once you dunk it into the water? Or is it a sealed resonant chamber that you put into the water???
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  #78  
Old 09-11-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaas View Post
How do you plan on getting it to resonate once you dunk it into the water? Or is it a sealed resonant chamber that you put into the water???
The concept is that when an alternating signal is passed into the can, or any piece of metal, the can will vibrate at that frequency. What is important is that the can be tuned to the frequency of the line frequency used.

Think of it as two tuning forks tuned to middle C. If you strike one tuning fork and hold it a few inches away from the other fork it will cause it to vibrate.
Also if an alternating electrical signal of 278.4 Hz is passed to a middle C tuning fork the fork will vibrate and a sound will be heard. 278.4Hz is the frequency of middle C.

-Core
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  #79  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:01 PM
bhaas bhaas is offline
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But as soon as that tuning fork touches the water it stops vibrating the instant it hits the water.

I understand the concept, but I just don't see it working once in the water.

In one of the diagrams it shows a pos and neg. Well AC isn't DC. That pic implies a pulsed DC current from what I can tell.

Why not just find out whatever you put together resonates at, once you get resonance of your can setup then put it in the water and see what happens. Will it stop resonating? Will it heat the water at least a little bit? If so then I guess your on the right track. I just don't see it working once it's in the water.
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  #80  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:06 PM
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The contact appears to warn us from simple plugging the unit into the wall outlet. I think anyone can see that if conditions are not perfect or if your water is very conductive we are creating a bad short. Distilled water would be good for experimenting.

For starters I recommend we use a 12volt to 110volt converter of say 150 watts. These inverters have overload protection.

-Core
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  #81  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:11 PM
Slovenia Slovenia is offline
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Nice!!

Core,

Very good recommendations and very sharp. Thanks!!

Regards,
Slovenia


Quote:
Originally Posted by Core View Post
I have never seen that beer can.

Sanding a can is straight forward.

1. Cut can open and add painters tape to sharp edge to prevent yourself from getting cut.

2. Install a rod and nuts on other end. Maybe a #8 threaded rod will do.

3. Get a large rag/towel that when rolled up will fit inside the can.

4. Wet the rag real good this will remove more air from the can and strength.

5. Cut a piece of strong cardboard to match the opening of the can. Make it 1/16" smaller so it fits inside.

6. Tape cardboard to inside of can, this prevents rag from falling out.

7. Mount can on drill press, on low speed, and use plumbers sand cloth to thin metal. OR staple some sand cloth to some wood (2x4) and mount this in a vise. Mount the can on a cordless drill. Run the drill and slowly move it across the sand cloth in the vise.

Yes getting the can tuned will be a pain but important.

-Core

BTW - We can also build the European version. Simply get a 120v/220v step-up transformer.
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  #82  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaas View Post
But as soon as that tuning fork touches the water it stops vibrating the instant it hits the water.
Air is a fluid like water, and oil. Resistance of the air over the tuning fork will eventually cause the vibrations to stop assuming no additional power is added other then the initial hit.

In water, these vibrations will be dampened faster. However it will still vibrate underwater just not as long as air. Sound travels via longitudinal waves. A tuning fork creates longitudinal waves. To say that a tuning fork will not vibrate in water is to say that sound does not travel in water. If that's the case how does sonar work?

-Core
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  #83  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:28 PM
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Reducing 110 Volt Mains Amperes to 15 Amperes?

Contact's Latest Message:

Sept. 11, 2011
What you supply area of the apartment, you calculate the width and thickness of the electrode, zero reba to resonate at 300 Hz. Fuse will die if you are using electricity for over 15 Amperes.


How do we control our amperes from our mains down to 15 amperes so we don't have problems?
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  #84  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:35 PM
bhaas bhaas is offline
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Put a tuning fork in water then hit it. It won't vibrate. Not to be confused with sonar. The element creating sonar isn't exposed to water. It's sealed and vibrating/emitting waves that travel through the water.

The way it's pictured in the diagram will never work IMO. All you'd be doing is using the current from the AC to heat the water. In distilled water it might take a really long time to heat using the current due to low resistance.

The trick is to resonate the water molecules causing them to heat up by friction. That's why, IMO the resonating chamber would need to be sealed.

Microwaves resonate the water till it boils and you don't dunk the magnetron into the water. Correct???
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Last edited by bhaas; 09-11-2011 at 07:46 PM.
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  #85  
Old 09-11-2011, 07:40 PM
bhaas bhaas is offline
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Wouldn't it just be easier to take the aluminum can and put a piezo electrical transducer/vibrator in the can itself, seal it up, put it in a bowl of water and resonate away till you find the sweet spot???

A 555 timer circuit would work great for this.
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  #86  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaas View Post
Wouldn't it just be easier to take the aluminum can and put a piezo electrical transducer/vibrator in the can itself, seal it up, put it in a bowl of water and resonate away till you find the sweet spot???

A 555 timer circuit would work great for this.
with you on that, it is a possibility , it is the same principle used to break water into HHO

Huifang XU, et al -- Zn Oxide photoelectrolysis

Zn Oxide photoelectrolysis

Quote:
Abstract: Materials scientists at the University of Wisconsin-Madison have designed a way to harvest small amounts of waste energy and harness them to turn water into usable hydrogen fuel. The process is simple, efficient and recycles otherwise-wasted energy into a usable form.

"This study provides a simple and cost-effective technology for direct water splitting that may generate hydrogen fuels by scavenging energy wastes such as noise or stray vibrations from the environment," the authors write in a new paper, published March 2 in the Journal of Physical Chemistry Letters. "This new discovery may have potential implications in solving the challenging energy and environmental issues that we are facing today and in the future."
if you can break it apart, you can heat it
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Last edited by MonsieurM; 09-11-2011 at 08:28 PM.
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  #87  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaas View Post
Put a tuning fork in water then hit it. It won't vibrate. Not to be confused with sonar. The element creating sonar isn't exposed to water. It's sealed and vibrating/emitting waves that travel through the water.

The way it's pictured in the diagram will never work IMO. All you'd be doing is using the current from the AC to heat the water. In distilled water it might take a really long time to heat using the current due to low resistance.

The trick is to resonate the water molecules causing them to heat up by friction. That's why, IMO the resonating chamber would need to be sealed.

Microwaves resonate the water till it boils and you don't dunk the magnetron into the water. Correct???
So you are saying that if you are under water with a steel tank that this tank will not make a sound if you hit it with a hammer?

-Core
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  #88  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:37 PM
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I don't believe it will resonate at the same frequency in water as in air

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaas View Post
How do you plan on getting it to resonate once you dunk it into the water? Or is it a sealed resonant chamber that you put into the water???
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  #89  
Old 09-11-2011, 08:43 PM
bhaas bhaas is offline
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Quote:
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So you are saying that if you are under water with a steel tank that this tank will not make a sound if you hit it with a hammer?

-Core
No I'm not. I'm saying that this experiment in its current configuration will never work. If you could make a mechanical vibrator that bangs at 60 Hz you'd have a chance. But the frequency to boil water (According to Joseph Cater in his book "The Ultimate reality" <--- You should download it) is 600Khz not 50 or 60 Hz. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.

But putting a ring around a can then putting it into water is nonsense to me. I could be wrong though.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:48 PM
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I don't believe it will resonate at the same frequency in water as in air
Thank you. I think there might be some misdirection regarding this. Common sense tells me that if you put 2 exposed electrodes into water, it'll be the current that creates the heat. Not resonance.
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