The Real History of the Ed Gray Motor by Mark McKay
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:25 PM
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Exclamation Capacitive Battery Charger & Capacitive Transformer

Danger!

Circuit too dangerous to replicate.
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Last edited by vidbid : 09-20-2013 at 06:02 AM. Reason: Received Complaint
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:38 AM
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That is a very dangerous circuit and should not be posted on an open forum like this.
People with little knowledge on electronics can kill themselfs with that circuit.
The moment you remove the leads from the battery a voltage of about 150V will appear on that leads.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:20 PM
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Cool Capacitive Battery Charger & Capacitive Transformer

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Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
That is a very dangerous circuit and should not be posted on an open forum like this. People with little knowledge on electronics can kill themselfs with that circuit. The moment you remove the leads from the battery a voltage of about 150V will appear on that leads.
I wish some people would stop trying to censor me. Open means free. It wouldn't be much of an open forum if I censored this information, now, would it?

But to placate the critics and safety trolls, I'll put up a disclaimer.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:34 PM
Armagdn03 Armagdn03 is offline
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That is not a capacitive transformer. It is a reactive voltage divider. The impedance of different capacitors will differ based on their capacitance, and so will offer differing "resistance" to the AC current, meaning you essentially have two resistors one after another, creating...A voltage divider.

This is a true capacitive transformer, and a very good idea.

C Stack
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:41 PM
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Capacitive Transformer

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Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
That is not a capacitive transformer. It is a reactive voltage divider. The impedance of different capacitors will differ based on their capacitance, and so will offer differing "resistance" to the AC current, meaning you essentially have two resistors one after another, creating...A voltage divider.

This is a true capacitive transformer, and a very good idea.

C Stack
I was reporting on the booklet. George Wiseman, the author, calls it a capacitive transformer.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:43 PM
Armagdn03 Armagdn03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidbid View Post
I was reporting on the booklet. George Wiseman, the author, calls it a capacitive transformer.
Yes I see that, no fault on your end, but it really is just a voltage divider.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:54 PM
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Thumbs up C-stack

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Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
Yes I see that, no fault on your end, but it really is just a voltage divider.
Interesting concept—your C-stack.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:07 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but...

I've looked over the circuit, read the pamphlet, and as long as you follow the instructions, AND USE THE SECOND CAPACITOR, not just run the circuit with a single one...

it appears that what you will have at the batteries, is whatever you designed the circuit to have... and nothing more.

It would appear, the danger level is, whatever you set it to be.

I think that was George's whole point. It's not like he's a dummy. Furthermore, his commercial electrolysers exploit this method so they damn well better be safe and have probably had to go through CSA?

Thanks. Just an observation, not a "known"

Last edited by kcarring : 03-04-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcarring View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but...

I've looked over the circuit, read the pamphlet, and as long as you follow the instructions, AND USE THE SECOND CAPACITOR, not just run the circuit with a single one...

it appears that what you will have at the batteries, is whatever you designed the circuit to have... and nothing more.

It would appear, the danger level is, whatever you set it to be.

I think that was George's whole point. It's not like he's a dummy. Furthermore, his commercial electrolysers exploit this method so they damn well better be safe and have probably had to go through CSA?

Thanks. Just an observation, not a "known"
Thanks for the link.
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:05 PM
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Great Post!

Great post and thanks!

Ged

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidbid View Post


A while back, I purchased a booklet from Eagle Research on capacitive battery charging for about $10. They included a booklet on capacitive transformers free of charge with my order.

Essentially, it shows how you can charge a battery using a capacitor instead of a transformer.

Capacitive Battery Charger



Capacitive Transformer


I thought it was of interest.

Related Videos:

Capacitive Battery Charger
DIY Capacitive Battery Charger

Capacitive Transformer
CAPACITIVE STEP-DOWN TRANSFORMER - Part 1
CAPACITIVE STEP-DOWN TRANSFORMER - Part 2

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Old 06-04-2012, 04:57 PM
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Funny, I did not know this thread existed. I started on some research nearly identical to this, however instead of using multiple plates it was to test the displacement theory of current.

The circuits here are the same as what I've tried. running the neutral lead to the bridge puts the circuit into the mains circuit and as such will always see a load, so that amperage can get dangerous if not careful.

I was more interested in Psi charge fluctuations, Although the amperage I'm getting is low, it's not drawing from the circuit on the capacitor.
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
That is not a capacitive transformer. It is a reactive voltage divider. The impedance of different capacitors will differ based on their capacitance, and so will offer differing "resistance" to the AC current, meaning you essentially have two resistors one after another, creating...A voltage divider.

This is a true capacitive transformer, and a very good idea.

C Stack
I read thru that, thanks

Any idea where this went if anywhere? It's exactly what I've been currently working on. There is some strange things with capacitive transformers, they don't obey conventional electrodynamic theories for one.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
I read thru that, thanks

Any idea where this went if anywhere? It's exactly what I've been currently working on. There is some strange things with capacitive transformers, they don't obey conventional electrodynamic theories for one.
Hi madH,

Could you state those strange things you have observed with capacitive transformers? What have you been doing?

Thanks!

Ged
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:19 PM
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going to dig up the thread I started on this, check there for updates
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:39 PM
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Change volage/ capacitance?

Hi
Couple of Qs:
1 My mains V is 250, can I build one or must I step down to 120/150- I have capacitors rated 450V AC and bridge rectifier to 1KV.?
2 My caps are only 11 MFD each - can I parallel some to increase the charging current?
Thanks!
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:10 AM
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Thumbs down Don't do it!!

Please do not build this circuit! What most people don't seem to realize is that if the 100 uf cap should short out you will then have full line voltage on the bridge. If it is connected to the battery you will blow up the battery! If you were to touch the leads while it is not connected to the battery you will have the about 170 volts DC on those leads even if the cap is good. This is if you are using 120 VAC. With 250 VAC the voltage on those leads will be right around 300 volts DC. That kind of voltage will kill or seriously injure you. I have worked in electronics for over 50 years and I would never use that circuit for anything unless I wanted to kill something. Use a transformer. No matter how worthless you are as a person your life is still probably worth more than the cost of a transformer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hillmanie View Post
Hi
Couple of Qs:
1 My mains V is 250, can I build one or must I step down to 120/150- I have capacitors rated 450V AC and bridge rectifier to 1KV.?
2 My caps are only 11 MFD each - can I parallel some to increase the charging current?
Thanks!
Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:08 AM
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I think this circuit would be fine if there was a 100uF cap on each AC leg before the rectifiers. then I would use a 6$ component called a hall effect current sensor to monitor the DC current and if it exceeded a preset level an SSR would cut the AC input. A simple voltage divider feeding the same SSR could also offer overvoltage protection. In fact this would be magnitudes safer than most battery chargers over 10 years old. This is because most used a bimetallic dry contact switch for overcurrent protection and they are a piece of ****.

As well transformers are heavy, expensive are generally burst into flames when the archaic overcurrent protection fails ... Do not leave them unattended. A good switch mode battery charger is more efficient and much safer. Personally I will never buy a transformer based battery charger again because I have seen them fail... not pretty.

AC
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:13 AM
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Still too dangerous

Hi Allcanadian,

Your idea has some merit as far as protecting the battery from over current. However it does nothing to prevent someone from being electrocuted by the leads if they should come in contact with them while they are not connected to the battery. Even when connected to the battery either lead is still about 70 volts above ground after going through the full wave rectifier if the supply is 120 volts. 70 volts is enough to kill you if you happen to be well grounded.

When solid state TV''s first came out they decided the big heavy transformers were no longer needed as we didn't need the filament circuit anymore. They went to a circuit very similar to the one posted. They tied the negative side to the chassis which has always been used as the reference ground. TV techs found out real quick that the chassis was now hot in reference to real ground. You couldn't even use your scope to troubleshoot the circuits because almost all scopes have the reference lead tied to the chassis of the scope and since the chassis of the scope was tied to real ground this caused a big problem. If you attempted to connect the ground lead of your scope probe to the chassis of the TV you got a big bang and your scope lead turned to smoke. All the shops I know of had to buy isolation transformers to use with the newer TV's. The isolation transformer made them safe to work on without the danger of being electrocuted and allowed us to use our scopes for troubleshooting.

As far as the transformer goes there is no reason for a transformer to catch fire if the input fuse is properly sized to the transformer. I worked in industrial maintenance for 30 years and saw several transformers fail. They blew the breaker or fuse and that was the end of the problem. All transformers should have a simple inline fuse if they are too small to trip the breaker on the supply line when they fail.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:27 PM
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@citfta
I see your point however a voltage divider on the DC end controlling an SSR on the hot AC end should solve that problem.

My issue probably relates to everyone here and I got tired of inefficient heavy chargers with absolutely no flexibility. So I use a buck converter to drop the AC voltage to wherever I want it. Then I added a current sensor to set the current to wherever I want it.

Basically my charger can charge any battery at any voltage or current(within reason) and really isn't all that different than the one posted here other than the current and voltage monitoring. I simply set the voltage cutoff to wherever I want it then set the max allowable current draw and I'm done.

As well the problem with fuses are that the damn things are always blowing, how many times have you spent 10 or 20 minutes searching for that damn fuse you didn't buy spares for, lol, they are my nemisis.

Regards
AC
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:52 PM
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Allcanadian, Would you be able to post a schematic of your setup with part numbers? I've got the Eagle research book too and thought about making his setup a number of times but I also didn't feel it was the safest setup the way it was presented. I like your concept.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:13 PM
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Hello ewizard

I will have to get back to you on that one, I generally build things as needed to solve whatever the problem of the moment may be and seldom document anything. I will have to trace the circuit and build a diagram.

AC
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:17 PM
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I made one of these capacitive chargers and it seems to charge 12V batteries very well and from the couple batteries I tried seems to de-sulfate them pretty well.

I tried a 25uF run cap for charging large battires (50AH car batteries) and that seems to work well. It yields a .91 amp charge. I have not "boiled" a battery using this amperage

Is over-charging particuarly dangerous with this type of charger?

For motorcycle batteries a 5uF cap worked better, the 25uF cap was creating a bit of "bubbling" in the 15AH battery. a 5uF cap charges at about 0.19 amps.

I have a couple questions though... using the 25uF and 5uF capacitor does not seem particularly deadly. I measured DC voltage across the leads and it was 110VDC for both (not 170 or higher).

I am considering adding resistors across the capacitors to keep them discharged once disconnecting. thoughts?

The only thing I haven't figured out (not being an EE) is how to make a voltage regulating circuit to control charging (for example, turn off at 14.4 and turn on at 12.6).
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:35 PM
shylo shylo is offline
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Welcome

Hi bsk, do you have any spec's I'd like to give it a try.
shylo
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:26 AM
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Fig 1 from VIDBID above was what I did.

I guess it can "kill" you from what people said, but I haven't been shocked yet and I'm very careful. Later on I cut the aluminum down and mounted the bridge diode to it for a heat sink. nothing gets remotely hot charging at .9 amp.

The purpose is to de-sulfate batteries, and that needs to be done slowly for best results (from what I gather).

370V 25uF run capacitor from ebay (from air conditioning equipment)
1000V 200amp bridge diode from ebay

16 gauge wire.

I'm going to make a nicer one with a volt/amp meter, timer, and maybe even 2 caps (one for car, one for motorcycle batteries). Also going to add resistors on top of the caps to keep them discharged. I don't know what the above stuff was to make it safe, someone maybe can elaborate.

I'd like to design a circuit that turns the charger off over 14.4 volts with a reset switch, but don't know how. That way if you turn it on without being connected it will not zap you and it won't boil the batteries.
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Last edited by bikesandcars : 05-21-2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 06:02 PM
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Thumbs up Regarding Microwave Oven Caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikesandcars View Post
Also going to add resistors on top of the caps to keep them discharged.
I believe most microwave oven caps have a built in resistor.

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Old 09-20-2013, 03:06 AM
DavidEAQ DavidEAQ is offline
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Capacitor function.

Hi, I want to know what is the functionality of the capacitor C1 in this circuit.
I learned that a capacitor in AC is like a short circuit, but it depends of its farads.
I've got this circuit with a 80mF capacitor and before of connecting it, I tried to simulated it(with PSIM) to understand what the capacitor does, but I found that it does not anything. The capacitor is too big and it's like a short circuit, but I can't be sure 'cause as I mentioned before, I don't understand its fuctionality.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:39 AM
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This things horrible .. but

But I invite you to tear this theory to bits .. or advise how to run with it

This thing is one touch lethal .. having said that I see very distinct possibilities here .. let me explain a little and we'll see if the operation can be made safe … and viable and if you guys can see the same possibilities. there may be a world changing system here I find it hard to believe it could possibly be this easy so please take a hard look and feel free to pick it to bits What I propose here. is...
and Of course I'm going to extream’s to explain the case and whilst not breaking recognised laws and electrical statements I am bending them out of shape in order to force an effect.
So .. you buy a Lead acid battery what are the units? the units are Amp/hours there is No energy or power content in Amp /Hrs … we of course infer it, but it certainly isn't in maxwells workings.
Power in these terms as a series capacitor is involved becomes power = VI cos Ø we can easily see that if
cos Ø = 0 then no power is consumed … electricians would refer to this as no “real power” is consumed. Utilities hate this component they must engineer the power lines to carry what is essentially a wattless component. “Inductive reactive current.” Its of no concern to us here however .. a short run of big cable is no worry to us.
To transfer this condition which is a night mare for the greedy grid operators into the language of radio or electronics guys cos Ø only = 0 in two states that is a/ at series resonance and b/at parallel resonance.
From the battery laws we can easily see that it is current x Time that we require, which means as far as we are concerned. “series resonance” Is perfect .. lots of amps and no voltage. In other words this piece of work tells us clearly that the lead acid battery will charge / or rejuvenate from totally "reactive current" . And do it very effectively .. and these are not really tuned .. yet .. and neither does this aspect seem to have been considered although I suspect it was at the back of George Wisemans mind as he goes on to cover power factor.
In deed its classic electrical theory .. the capacitor causes a 90 deg phase shift. Not only that its a capacitive phase shift countering the costly inductive reactance the power companies must contend with on their grid .. this operation then should result in,... if anything the power company paying you. should you decide to use there reactive current, instead of the earths "magnetic current" but I don’t think you'll find that very likely as you read on.
First to understand what is happening here because this is not normal battery charging by any stretch of the imagination. Here is my take on it after a lot of research and as simply as I can possibly make it
first I would invite you to watch this video clip by rock singer Jamie Ventura

A MythBuster's Glass Shattering Montage - YouTube

for reasons I'll go onto explain this is how the suphation is being broken down in this system .. and I think it could be engineered to be a totally free looped energy system. Quite capable of meeting all the needs of a family home.
So lets link to some of this and discuss … first your domestic power meter does not register .. or charge you for “Reactive power” and certainly not capacitive content .. In fact they want it.
so lets assume you bought 20 scrapped lead acid batteries from the junk yard and connected them all in series in your attic and charged them with this system “at perfect resonance” which you can do by adjusting the capacitance or frequency... in theory you could maintain the batteries at full charge whilst delivering a huge amount of energy ... for milli watts.
at resonance however the current draw through all the batteries could obviously be huge although you have no way to measure it .. a very big ground cable or bridge rectifier (if you use reactive content) would be required to handle it. The actual power consumption however is minimal
With a badly sulphated battery you can actually hear the sulphation disintegrating and shattering
just like just like Jamie's glass . In this statement.

“When you hear the sulfate crystals buzzing and crackling inside the battery, you know something amazing (and kind of scary) is happening.”

which Is In this article written about the same system

Capacitive Battery Charger - John Saves Energy

I concur fully .. but then I found a battery freezing once on the 3BGS system .. scary. Or at least a little odd I certainly knew something bloody funny was happening.
The effect is called by some "sympathetic resonance) .. in other situations "cognitive resonance" it is not an effect of the sine wave and harmonics but rather the linear wave .. (you know that one that doesn't exist.) and overtones. Neither is this the action of a fundemaental rather more like this I suspect

Marcus Reid Crystal Converter Battery - Casimir Effect - Part 1 - YouTube

Consider Jamie breaking the wine glass … when explained on various you tube channels the wave is drawn as a sine wave … the electrical energy going into a transducer (loud speaker) may be a sine wave .. however consider the output and the action of a loud speaker pure lateral back and forth a linear wave in the truest sense of the word.
Here then is the challenge .. make it safe for one or multiple batteries … closely track the series resonant point of the battery and adjust the frequency and or capacitance as battery and load conditions change to maintain “series resonance” .. as series resonance really means the powers available at no cost … to move it on a little The Phasor at 90 deg to a parallel resonant circuit is the electromagnetic transverse radio wave that is taught and we are all familiar with.
The phasor at 90deg to the series resonant circuit the linear wave .. isn't taught … doesn't exsist no one knows about it or what it does … yeah right
to save you a little time .. stick a big wire on a big lump of copper .. like a radiator .. bury it like TK
suck up magnetic current and loop the thing.
Which ever way you go about it it seems to me that free energy is potentially available in huge amounts from this system. Even with an inverter .. the lead acid car battery can deliver 100s if not 1000s of amps and there's endless numbers in scrap yards around the world .. a method for tracking series resonance and adjusting changing conditions to it seems a major stumbling block to me. But all said and done that's simply engineering if the principles I outline here hold up under scrutiny .. your comments please

Last edited by Duncan : 09-25-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:00 PM
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ewizard ewizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg View Post
I believe most microwave oven caps have a built in resistor.

You DON'T want to assume that as these things can be lethal. Most of the ones I have do NOT have a built in resistor.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:24 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Hi
Check out Electronicsnmore YT 5 -10 amp Capacitive dc charger for 110 v v ac only
for 220 v hope somebody can alter this design
thanks
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