Tesla Chargers
Energetic Forum  

Go Back   Energetic Forum > Energetic Forum Discussion > Renewable Energy
Homepage Energetic Science Ministries Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2011, 02:13 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Coil Shorting Techniques.

Thought it might a good time to start a thread on coil shorting phenomena. As most of you know, shorting a coil at the peek of a sine wave for a brief moment produces a lot of voltage. There are many ways to do it but electronically is the best method so far. I only have a reed switch at hand but the method can be demonstrated pretty well. Putting a capacitor of the correct value in series with the generator coil reduces the voltage output but also eliminates the drag on the rotor. I have uploaded a video to demonstrate this. YouTube - ‪Bedini Cole Window Motor Coil shorting with and without capacitor‬‏

This is a link that explains the effect in more detail. https://sites.google.com/site/altern...coils-circuits
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2011, 03:18 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
Great video Zooty. Maybe Nvisser can comment on the effects of coil shorting. he has been working with shorting for a while now. I have started a new rotor that I can utilize these techniques. But after scratching the surface of this I feel many of the systems we discuss will start to use shorting. Something Romero had said that I wish to try is having the coil shorted for most of the pulse and then releasing at the peak.
What would happen if you had a multifilar coil that had say 3 of the windings shorted, and then in cascading order release the shorts of each individual strand to consecutively release in a higher and higher state of inductance. maybe nothing. just a thought.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 04:40 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 1,006
I like that poly-phasing thought
Would it be as simple to implement as fitting differently sized AC capacitors to the coil sections ?

Own trials have produced great results. The instant change from single side to both side lighting of a neon bulb, at what appears to be the same brightness as single side lighting. I fall down on abilities to measure though, so have no idea of the increase, if there is one.

Simple timing tricks are another area of interest over here. One simple method, that I use a lot, is to run the Hall switched transistor output to a collector coil as well as just the drive coil. It keeps the coil exactly in sync. I get much better outputs through a FWBR if I short the coil just before a magnet passes. However, constant shorting would be preferred and so some kind of inverter would be best to turn things over to an opposite - as Romero was perhaps indicating.
A 7404 chip will swap a digital signal and an idea is to place that on the Hall sensor output. That then goes to a transistor that 'shorts' (with BEMF diode in line) until the Hall switches to fire the powering coil. At which point, it switches off and the collector coil conducts.
7404 datasheet - SN7404N datasheet pdf datenblatt - Texas Instruments - These devices contain six independent inverters ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
You get 6 such inverters on one chip and they are readily found on especially 1980's/1990's equipment. Computer card boards or arcade game boards mostly, in my experience.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 05:27 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 06:19 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 1,006
Nice demo
That piggyback coil really does make a good difference. Can't see too many laughing up the magnet, we've all done it i'm sure. Many folks would have clipped the video short too no doubt lol. Was going very well up to the end.
What happens if you reverse connections to the reed switch ? as in, have it fire the coil momentarily rather than short it ?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 06:56 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrichie View Post
Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.
lol .. nice little reed switch fly by. Interesting effect (the amp draw reduction). I am looking for a simple way to short my coil for the same amount of time each magnet pass. Around 2ms would be good. I thought about a 555 in oneshot mode triggered by a coil but i want to avoid more electronics. Minoly had a ssg circuit doing the job but i wonder if the short time is adjustable.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 07:36 PM
quantumuppercut quantumuppercut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 406
Hello gang,

I was very interested with coil shorting. I think it's a hot thing lately. lol I just came up with a method for coil shorting that seems easy to me. Haven't test it out fully yet but it seems to give high voltage for low RPM. I know the formal way is to short the coil at peak or open the switch at peak. Well, I heard that we don't have to do it at peak so I came up with a machine gun style shorting. Basically we brutally tank the wheel with short random pulses. I use a mechanical switch in auto mode. My bike wheel with 8 magnets gives 30 volts @ .004 RPM. lol (it makes 1 complete turn every 4 seconds).

(Edit: Oops, it was 15 RPM... wrong conversion factor lol )

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
Attached Images
File Type: jpg coilshorting.jpg (23.5 KB, 133 views)

Last edited by quantumuppercut : 06-15-2011 at 08:42 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 10:14 PM
quantumuppercut quantumuppercut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 406
Hello again gang,

Just did some more experiments. This time I connect a 4700uF cap to see the output power. ... It charges up to 10V in..14 secs. I calculated the average power to be around 16mW . I estimate the speed is around the pulse motor speed at 12V and .2A . Which is around 2.4 Watts . After a bit of turned off, I try to see what could be done to improve. I came up with an equation to estimate the power.

S*N/M

S = linear speed of the rotor
N = pulse frequency
M = magnet spacing

I realized that I only have 8 magnets where the wheel could hold another 24 magnets. That would triple my output to 48mW if I fill up all the space. If I have a smaller rotor, I could go to higher linear speed in exchange for radius. I estimated that to be another factor of 4 which gives 192mW . I'm not sure what the mechanical relay frequency is but I need another 13 factor to match the input. But I love the mechanical relay. Maybe I'll consider magnet strength too. Anyway, has been fun.

QU
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:50 PM
minoly's Avatar
minoly minoly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrichie View Post
Heres a video on the coil shorting effect I had written about about. please excuse the sloppy setup. ITs heartbreaking to spend so much time on a rig that is a dud. so I had to redeem myself a little. This is very crude and basic. I was going to show a small light bulb lit from the output through a bridge into a cap. But I burnt them out. All of them. I need a little bigger one.

the speed of rotor and the amount of Amp draw decrease is VERY dependent of input voltage and current..

No I didnt put a meter on it either. Dont laugh, but I can generate enough energy to burn out light bulbs but if you forget to charge batteries for your meters then.....well youd be me!!! And yep laugh it up.. a magnet launch to finish up the vid.
YouTube - ‪coil shorting combined multifilar coil‬‏
For those of you in other forums.....yeah its cut and paste.
Nice vid.
any thoughts as to what is going on?
how it effects charging etc...
thanks for sharing that

Patrick
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2011, 11:56 PM
minoly's Avatar
minoly minoly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 514
SSG short

may as well post the SSG short here.
YouTube - ‪Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short‬‏
some serious spikes come out of this one.

@Zooty, been watching your windowmotor build, very nice

we almost have the always on then release short going, will post if something comes of it.

Patrick
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:28 AM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
PAtrick,
The only thing I can think of, and I dont have the scientific backing to show it, is this:
1. a coil once wound has a specific inductance. this includes windings, core etc.
2. when a rotor magnet approaches the inductance slightly lowers and generation starts.
3. once magnet starts to pass through coil inductance starts to return to a higher state thus causing Lenz? here I may be way off.
4. But at the peak of the wave if we short and we drop the bottom out of the inductance and its lowered even further instead of going to a normal higher state and letting Lenz do its thing. thus letting the voltage climb even higher instead of being impeded upon by natural forces.
5. the short is over and inductance is returned to normal but since we artificially delayed the time when Lenz would take place the magnet is now too far past the coil for Lenz to have any effect. Well thats misleading.
6. IT does have an effect. It should be attracting the next incoming magnet instead of holding back the original magnet. So the generator acts kinda like an attraction motor.
To me its like a magnet and coil are a semi going up a mountain. The driver punches the accelerator to climb the mountain. at the peak of the mountain the trucks accelerator is punched to the floor trying to overcome gravity, load... But right before the driver lets off the gas because he is about to top the mountain GOD screws with him and turns off gravity. The trucks engine was bogged down due to the load he was carrying and the forces of nature such as gravity and wind resistance etc. All of a sudden when gravity (inductance) was turned off the driver still had his foot to the floor and since there was nothing to hold him back the engines rpms all of a sudden went to redline!!! his wheels leave the road for an instant (the pulse from the reed, all etc..) spinning very fast. then in GODS infinite wisdom he turns gravity back on so as to not have a driver with a nasty pair of shorts. the truck touches back down on the other side of the mountain. but he is on the other side so there are no forces to hold him back, in fact they help him. gravity pulls him down the hill

I hope this analogy has some merit. If not think of it as a bit of comic relief from all the seriousness that had occurred in the last month thanks to Romero.

This theory is kind of what I gathered that was kinda happening in the Bedini Ferris Wheel somehow. An artificial inductance lowering and raising. or a time delay.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:46 AM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
ive also thought of it like this:

take a tennis ball and drop it. it bounces back up to its natural ability to a certain height. take a basketball and repeat. same effect. now hold tennis ball on top of basketball and drop both together. the tennis ball will fly way up in the air. for no more input than it took to drop it in the first place.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 03:08 AM
quantumuppercut quantumuppercut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 406
Has been on investigation about the capacitor(.47uF) in series with the shorting switch. I do not have a .47uF but I tested a varieties of cap values available. None of them charge output expect for the huge 4700uF. This is interesting why a cap there and how it should work at all. I put a DC meter across the series cap and observed the voltage fluctuates up and down randomly(this agree with the random pulses). I shorted the coil completely and the voltage fluctuates the same. This makes me conclude that my ON time is too long to have any shorting effect with cap in series. Will further investigate if this is the key or one of the keys to OU or at least cause no drag/increase speed.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 05:04 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,351
An interesting thought on coil shorting.

What would be the result of taking a universal motor and running it on DC as the coil, place a gear on the shaft and short the motor with a brush touching the teeth of the gears?

If the motor speed was sufficiently high the current draw should not be altered significantly as the moments of contact would be so short that little current will flow. Any high voltage could be collected Bedini style or by a bridge rectifier.

If the collected power was greater than any increase on power it would be very interesting I have read many articles stating that there would be and this would be a simple experiment to test it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 05:36 AM
Steve220 Steve220 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 172
Just thinking only

If a person used electromagnets in the rotor in place of the permanent magnets and was able to switch them off as the rotor electromagnets passed TDC of the stator coils, it looks like a set up like this could be able to bypass Lenz law.

Kind of a magnetic diode effect.
A induced current in the stator coil on the approach, but nothing in the stator coil on the tail end.
There would be no magnetic field once passed TDC of the stator coil.
No or very little Lenz effect in the stator coil.
A diode in series with the stator coils could help to keep the current flowing the same direction.

Of course you would have to supply current to the rotor coils, but only for the short time up to TDC, then off. If the rotor coils were staggered so only one coil was on one at a time, may be the current would not be that much.

I guess what I am trying to say is instead of just doing things to the stator coils to over come the permanent magnets of the rotor, may be just doing away with the permanent magnets altogether and use a switched electro magnet in the rotor.

While there is no cost involved to obtain a magnetic field from a permanent magnet, there is a down side to it as it is an uncontrolled magnetic field, other than its movement being attached to the rotor. It is always on, so it has to be controlled on the generator coil side. Sort of free, with a cost.

The field of a electro magnet attached to the rotor is not free, but has a controlled cost to it. Plus the cost may be able to be cut in half if it is on only during the ramp up to TDC.
Of course the electromagnet of the rotor, could have its own back emf during the shut off at TDC. But with proper timing of the coil cutoff, might be able to be a minimal amount or even a plus if a spike at or near TDC happens at the right time.

Now there could be magnetic control and timing on both the rotor magnets and the stator coils for best performance.

May be even enough current could be produced in the stator coils to make up the difference in using the electro magnets in place of the premanent magnets, with some current left over to do something useful.

This may have already been tried, if so, never mind.

Last edited by Steve220 : 06-16-2011 at 07:30 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumuppercut View Post
Has been on investigation about the capacitor(.47uF) in series with the shorting switch. I do not have a .47uF but I tested a varieties of cap values available. None of them charge output expect for the huge 4700uF. This is interesting why a cap there and how it should work at all. I put a DC meter across the series cap and observed the voltage fluctuates up and down randomly(this agree with the random pulses). I shorted the coil completely and the voltage fluctuates the same. This makes me conclude that my ON time is too long to have any shorting effect with cap in series. Will further investigate if this is the key or one of the keys to OU or at least cause no drag/increase speed.
As far as i know it only works with an AC cap. Is your 4700uf cap AC? Apparently the cap acts like a high pass filter, filtering out the low frequency sine wave generated in the coil and only allowing the high frequency spikes from the shorted moment. You can also short the peeks of the high frquency component to get much more power but switching has to be very fast and accurate with some sort of peek detector.

Last edited by Zooty : 06-16-2011 at 12:44 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 01:20 PM
quantumuppercut quantumuppercut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
As far as i know it only works with an AC cap. Is your 4700uf cap AC? Apparently the cap acts like a high pass filter, filtering out the low frequency sine wave generated in the coil and only allowing the high frequency spikes from the shorted moment. You can also short the peeks of the high frquency component to get much more power but switching has to be very fast and accurate with some sort of peek detector.
Thank you Zooty,

This morning I realized there are two positions one can place that AC cap; before the bridge rectify or after the bridge rectify. Yesterday test was before bridge rectify configuration so my assumption on the ON time may not be accurate. I tested again this morning with after bridge rectify configuration and it works although slower charging than direct connection with no Cap. I think the cap has a very important roll but I have to do further testing to confirm this.

QU
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
I know shorting a coil lowers the inductance. Does shorting also lower the resistance?

From yesterdays experiments I forgot to mention. Intially beforeI bleww out all the bulbs I had, I had them connected straight to the piggyback coil. the bulb would light full brightness. then after say one minute, the bulb would only blink. I could disconnect for a brief time and reconnect and the bulb would come back on and then after time it would start to blink. Is this due to the capacitance of the coil?

Also in a bit only related to this thread because it happened while shorting. I tried to utilize Teslas impulse technology like bedini showed in a EFTV vid. It totally destroyed any shorting effects I had going at the time. Voltage to the cap from the shorting dropped. I was running a small hobby motor from the cap from the shorting coil. When I connected the impulse tech the motor rpms decreased then stopped.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2011, 06:37 PM
quantumuppercut quantumuppercut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 406
Hello all,

I could not go further with testing due to lack of equipments but I think the only way to speed up any magnet motor is to apply a reverse current to induced emf by the wheel. The capacitor might have done this.

Anyway, has been tinkering with some more ways to produce cheap voltage with coil shorting. I connected a coil to the input of a small 2-6V dc motor and rotate it by hand. It can produce high voltage, but after abusing it by running a 9V through the motor, hand rotate doesn't give good result. Probably due to motor abuse.

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

QU
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 04:43 AM
barbosi barbosi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 247
I find this video fascinating

It is the simplified version of the theme presented in this thread. 1 rotor with magnets, 1 coil and 1 reed switch.
Personally I believe this is the perfect setup for investigating the phenomena.
YouTube - ‪Magnet Motor Coil Switch‬‏

The only one it could beat this would be the one which will replace the reed switch with a more reliable one. Although I'm thinkering about it for some too long time, I know this will appear some time soon.

And if I may at the end, in case you read this - excellent work lasersaber.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:40 AM
Neight's Avatar
Neight Neight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbosi View Post
It is the simplified version of the theme presented in this thread. 1 rotor with magnets, 1 coil and 1 reed switch.
Personally I believe this is the perfect setup for investigating the phenomena.
YouTube - ‪Magnet Motor Coil Switch‬‏

The only one it could beat this would be the one which will replace the reed switch with a more reliable one. Although I'm thinkering about it for some too long time, I know this will appear some time soon.

And if I may at the end, in case you read this - excellent work lasersaber.
that is a very basic pulse motor, and it works very well

I am beginning to work on coil shorting, trying to learn how to do it in the first place...
right now I have my SSG running and I have a second coil setup with a reed switch and some LEDs. the coil is a bifiler coil though i have wired the two coils together in series to make one coil. the two ends of the coil wires are connected to 3 regular LEDs that came out of an assorted bag that I got from radio shack. the LEDs are wired in series, and as far as i know, that means they are only using 1/2 of the available AC current coming from the coil. I tried using a FWBR, but it wouldn't light the LED's for some reason, and I am not really sure why...
I am using a reed relay (not using the relay leads, just the switch leads at either end of the relay switch the same as in redrichie's video in this thread). I have also been playing around with different caps in series with the LEDs after reading this post.
I am using an aircore coil that will not light the LEDs on it's own. when I hook the reed switch to the LEDs and coil the LEDs light very brightly even when the coil is over 1/2" away from the rotor magnets. I have found so far that i get the best results (brightest and most consistent light from all three LEDs) if i have my gen coil 180 degrees from the driving coil of the SSG, and the reed switch 90 degrees from the gen coil, between the gen coil and the driving coil. full bright light from the LEDs and no drag on the rotor
I have a few pieces of ferrite, and when I use those in the coil, I don't need the reed switch, though I get a lot of drag.
with the reed switch, i don't need a core, and I don't get any noticeable drag on the rotor.
I am buying one of those laser tachometers to double check that the rotor is not slowing, but if it is slowing, it's not perceptible amount.

I am going to find a hall sensor I can use with this in place of the reed switch, but at least I have a rig I can learn on at the moment.
because of the setup I am using, it is a bit tough to check the voltage and amps with a meter, but i am going to set this up a bit differently in the next few days so it's easier to test.

very interesting, and I am learning a lot. thanks for posting this thread It helped me get started, and showed me where to start looking for some basic shorting techniques

thanks
N8
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:51 AM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neight View Post
that is a very basic pulse motor, and it works very well

I am beginning to work on coil shorting, trying to learn how to do it in the first place...
right now I have my SSG running and I have a second coil setup with a reed switch and some LEDs. the coil is a bifiler coil though i have wired the two coils together in series to make one coil. the two ends of the coil wires are connected to 3 regular LEDs that came out of an assorted bag that I got from radio shack. the LEDs are wired in series, and as far as i know, that means they are only using 1/2 of the available AC current coming from the coil. I tried using a FWBR, but it wouldn't light the LED's for some reason, and I am not really sure why...
I am using a reed relay (not using the relay leads, just the switch leads at either end of the relay switch the same as in redrichie's video in this thread). I have also been playing around with different caps in series with the LEDs after reading this post.
I am using an aircore coil that will not light the LEDs on it's own. when I hook the reed switch to the LEDs and coil the LEDs light very brightly even when the coil is over 1/2" away from the rotor magnets. I have found so far that i get the best results (brightest and most consistent light from all three LEDs) if i have my gen coil 180 degrees from the driving coil of the SSG, and the reed switch 90 degrees from the gen coil, between the gen coil and the driving coil. full bright light from the LEDs and no drag on the rotor
I have a few pieces of ferrite, and when I use those in the coil, I don't need the reed switch, though I get a lot of drag.
with the reed switch, i don't need a core, and I don't get any noticeable drag on the rotor.
I am buying one of those laser tachometers to double check that the rotor is not slowing, but if it is slowing, it's not perceptible amount.

I am going to find a hall sensor I can use with this in place of the reed switch, but at least I have a rig I can learn on at the moment.
because of the setup I am using, it is a bit tough to check the voltage and amps with a meter, but i am going to set this up a bit differently in the next few days so it's easier to test.

very interesting, and I am learning a lot. thanks for posting this thread It helped me get started, and showed me where to start looking for some basic shorting techniques

thanks
N8
Nice work Can you give us a bit more detail on how your bifilar is wired? One wind is series connected with the other wind but which direction?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 05:21 PM
Neight's Avatar
Neight Neight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 322
Thanks Zooty
This coil was one I wound up to run an SSG, so it's 150' of 30 gauge and 150' of 26 gauge. the way the coil is oriented as I am using it, the winds are CCW facing the rotor.
I hope the diagram I uploaded helps, it's one of the first I have drawn from scratch
I have marked the ends of each coil as start and end. not sure how well it came out in the photo after it was uploaded, so I just wanted to point out that is what I wrote in

also, I messed around a lot with positioning last night, and I did notice that when I pulled the coil and switch away, the rotor did speed up some. it wasn't much, but I am getting some drag...
I think why i didn't notice it before is when I am putting the reed switch in, it will slow the rotor down until I get the position right, then it speeds back up.
I must not have moved both at the same time before last night, so I never noticed the very slight drag on the rotor.
when i have the switch in the wrong place, the rotor slows quite a bit, and the LEDs either blink or don't come on at all. once it gets close to the right position, the LEDs will go to a very very fast blink, nearly imperceptible.
when everything is in the place where it all likes to run, the rotor is very nearly full speed (as I now know, sometimes i get impatient and post before I have done enough testing ) and the LEDs appear to be steady on, though I am sure they are just blinking faster than my eye can catch
hope this helps understand my ramblings a bit
if needed, I can upload a video, just let me know
thanks
N8

edit: ok, I checked the diagram I uploaded and it is backwards for some reason I used my comps built in camera, and it must have inverted the image...
I will just flip it and re-post, make life easier on everyone
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Photo on 2011-06-20 at 13.06.jpg (67.6 KB, 51 views)

Last edited by Neight : 06-20-2011 at 05:24 PM. Reason: explained my diagram being backwards...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 05:27 PM
Neight's Avatar
Neight Neight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 322
ok, here it is again...
hopefully it's readable
Attached Images
File Type: jpg flipped around.jpg (14.1 KB, 65 views)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:39 PM
Neight's Avatar
Neight Neight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 322
ok, I have a quick question maybe someone can help me with.
I have been playing with this setup all day, and have found something that confuses me a bit.
I replaced two of the LEDs with a 1ohm 10w resistor, so now I have one LED and a 1 ohm resistor, and now the LED starts to light even before I use the reed switch.
why am I now getting enough current to light the LED through the resistor where as before, I didn't get any lights at all without any resistors...
are two LEDs more of a resistive load or is something else going on here?
the meter that I have that will check resistance is currently sitting with a dead fuse in it, so I can't just test the resistance on my own.
I figure it's a pretty simple question, I just don't have all my test equipment usable right now to test it myself
thanks in advance to anyone who can shed a little light on this for me
N8
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2011, 01:24 AM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neight View Post
ok, I have a quick question maybe someone can help me with.
I have been playing with this setup all day, and have found something that confuses me a bit.
I replaced two of the LEDs with a 1ohm 10w resistor, so now I have one LED and a 1 ohm resistor, and now the LED starts to light even before I use the reed switch.
why am I now getting enough current to light the LED through the resistor where as before, I didn't get any lights at all without any resistors...
are two LEDs more of a resistive load or is something else going on here?
the meter that I have that will check resistance is currently sitting with a dead fuse in it, so I can't just test the resistance on my own.
I figure it's a pretty simple question, I just don't have all my test equipment usable right now to test it myself
thanks in advance to anyone who can shed a little light on this for me
N8
The reason the LED lights is because you removed the other 2 and placed a 1 ohm resistor in series with it. The 1 ohm resistor may as well be an extension on the wire because it will allow a good amount of current to flow. Most normal led's need at least 2.5v to 3v to light up. When you had 3 of them in series, you needed at least 7.5v to 9v to light them. I am assuming you are using ceramic magnets on your rotor which will not induce that much voltage in the coil but that also depends on the amount of wire in the coil. Measure the AC across the coil without anything connected, it will probably be around 3v - 5v. What you are doing is how i started with coil shorting. You will discover many things as you go. Neodymium magnets + coreless coils but done in such a way that you take advantage of the surface area of the wire to magnet like in a window motor is where i think there is the most potential. I have 2 separate coils on my small motor, not that many winds and i am generating 30v dc. When i short the coil, it almost kills a neon bulb. I am glad people are looking in to this phenomena, i really think there is potential here. Keep up the good work . A vid would be great by the way. Might do one myself
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2011, 01:45 AM
Neight's Avatar
Neight Neight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
The reason the LED lights is because you removed the other 2 and placed a 1 ohm resistor in series with it. The 1 ohm resistor may as well be an extension on the wire because it will allow a good amount of current to flow. Most normal led's need at least 2.5v to 3v to light up. When you had 3 of them in series, you needed at least 7.5v to 9v to light them. I am assuming you are using ceramic magnets on your rotor which will not induce that much voltage in the coil but that also depends on the amount of wire in the coil. Measure the AC across the coil without anything connected, it will probably be around 3v - 5v. What you are doing is how i started with coil shorting. You will discover many things as you go. Neodymium magnets + coreless coils but done in such a way that you take advantage of the surface area of the wire to magnet like in a window motor is where i think there is the most potential. I have 2 separate coils on my small motor, not that many winds and i am generating 30v dc. When i short the coil, it almost kills a neon bulb. I am glad people are looking in to this phenomena, i really think there is potential here. Keep up the good work . A vid would be great by the way. Might do one myself
excellent, thanks for the reply!
that is pretty much what I figured was going on, but wanted confirmation. I really need to get some new fuses for my meters, I blew one a while back and keep forgetting to buy new ones when I am out...
I am actually using neo mags on my rotor, but I have one with ceramics on it as well, but it's much bigger. my neo mag SSG fits on a small table i use for testing, so that is the one I use most often.
I really don't know much of anything about window motors, but that is also on my list of things I would like to build. I don't have enough wire to build a proper window motor, but I am getting to the point where I have to buy more wire, or rewind some old coils...
I am winding a few small ones on sewing machine bobbins with some 30g wire I was able to get @ radio shack. following the romeroUK posts have me pretty interested to see what a few small coils can do

I have my whole setup torn apart at the moment, so it's more flexible.
I had everything soldered to a small PCB, but now that I am really getting into testing I have taken that apart and I am moving it all to a breadboard to make testing different ideas that much easier.
once I get what I had back to working, I will take a short vid and post it to youtube!
thanks a ton for the confirmation, I am learning a lot really fast right now, and should probably slow down a bit so I don't miss any steps along the path

N8
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2011, 01:41 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
so from my experiments and observations shortin one winding of a coil will lower inductance. so what else can do this? Anyone looked more into magamps? from what I can tell a small dc bias is applied to a common core to help saturation. so will a coil with a rectifier applied to another coil do the same thing? timing as always would be critical. maybe why JB said a small version wouldnt work that well.

1 coil to generate a bias voltage to another multifilar coil to simulate a short. no switches, but the same effect?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2011, 05:45 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrichie View Post
so from my experiments and observations shortin one winding of a coil will lower inductance. so what else can do this? Anyone looked more into magamps? from what I can tell a small dc bias is applied to a common core to help saturation. so will a coil with a rectifier applied to another coil do the same thing? timing as always would be critical. maybe why JB said a small version wouldnt work that well.

1 coil to generate a bias voltage to another multifilar coil to simulate a short. no switches, but the same effect?
Red, you've lost me now So you would rectify the AC output of a coil and pass the DC to another coil?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:31 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 346
Ok here is the link to the basic principle of the mag amp. this may not be related to this thread but somehow I feel it is all related to what we are looking for.
Homemade Magnetic Amplifiers.

So basing shorting on this idea, you could do the following to lower the inducatnce of a coil. This idea uses 2 coils. A bias coil and a multifilar type of coil. this could be any coil of at least 2 windings that share a common core.

1. a bias coil is placed up to the rotor.
2. the energy created by this would be A/C. a magamp needs a D/C current. so it should be rectified and fed into a cap or directly....
3. into a winding of another coil, that shares a common core with the main generating coil. This would electrically lower the inductance of the multifilar coil. this coils inductance would be lowered right at the peak as to simulate shorting at the peak. all that is required for the tuning of this "short" should be to move the bias coil into the propper position, so as its energy is timed to bias the main generator coil at the propper time.

The strength of the lowered inductance would be determined by the energy produced by the bias coil, and by the number of turns of the coil it is connected to.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
2007 Copyright ? Energetic Forum? A Non Profit Corporation - All Rights Reserved