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Old 05-26-2011, 03:59 PM
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Trees as radiant energy collector

I was wondering if you guys thought of experimenting with trees as radiant collector:

i posted this in another thread but i figured it was worth having its own thread:

allow me to quote my post:

Quote:
George O. SQUIER: Tree Antennas
George O. Squier ~ Trees as Antennas ( Scientific American, June 14, 1919 & British Patent Specification # 149,917)


Quote:
It is not a joke nor a scientific curiosity, this strange discovery of Gen. George O. Squire, Chief Signal Officer, that trees --- all trees, of all kinds and all heights, growing anywhere --- are nature's own wireless towers and antenna combined. The matter first came to his attention in 1904, through the use of trees as grounds for Army buzzer and telegraph and telephone sets, which, in perfectly dry ground and in a dry season, functioned poorly or not at all with ordinary grounds. Right then he began experiments with a view to seeing what possibilities, if any, the tree had as an aerial. But in 1904 radiotelegraphy was far more undeveloped than at present, and vacuum amplifying tubes were not thought of.

The New “Power Plants”: Trees Make Electricity?

Quote:
It appears that a small electrical component company near Boston has figured out how to get electricity out of trees. MagCap Engineering is pretty sure they’ve come up on the next renewable energy revolution. By pounding a nail into the trunk and a conductor into the ground, a faint but consistent charge is detected in a wire running from the tree to the earth.
The New β€œPower Plantsβ€�: Trees Make Electricity? : TreeHugger

could not find the rexresearch link

ps: i wonder what would happen if you use an SSG circuit OR Dr Stiffler's device on a tree? maybe the tree can be the radiant energy collector antenna (read below on fractal antenna)

you can even reproduce Tesla's Experiment using 2 similar trees and the 7Hz frequency as in the experiment in post#20 or just replace the test tubes with 2 trees

http://www.energeticforum.com/136257-post20.html

A better way to qualify nature as Fractal is the Constructal theory:

Quote:
The constructal law puts forth the idea that the generation of design (configuration, pattern, geometry) in nature is a physics phenomenon that unites all animate and inanimate systems, and that this phenomenon is covered by the Constructal Law stated by Adrian Bejan in 1996: "For a finite-size (flow) system to persist in time (to live), its configuration must evolve such that it provides easier access to the imposed currents that flow through it."
link:

Constructal theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

note: Just a thought if Most of nature's elements (trees, clouds, animals etc...) encompasses Constructal properties, they could be turned into "fractal"/"Constructal" antennas too (just have to know how)....makes you wonder about Tesla

more on this:


The Brain is an Advanced Fractal Antenna




I really do hope you find this interesting enough to explore and experiment.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsieurM View Post
I was wondering if you guys thought of experimenting with trees as radiant collector:

i posted this in another thread but i figured it was worth having its own thread:

allow me to quote my post:






I really do hope you find this interesting enough to explore and experiment.
Hi Monsieur M,
I saw a couple of youtube videos a while back while I doing some earth battery experiments. I was curious and like you thought it was very interesting. I tried it on a couple of trees and found that single tall trees work better that shorter trees or trees in a group or forest.
Unfortunately it didnt produce enough electricity to be worth persuing. I had thought about combining them in some way and may still work on that some day but am busy with other experiments currently.
Bizzy
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:25 PM
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Actually a better experiment would be to try the following just replace your test tube with 2 similar tree, except that one should be healthy and the other sick, i'm sure you'd see some improvement in the health of the sick tree (just a supposition):

Quote:
A Nobel Prize winning biologist has ignited controversy after publishing details of an experiment in which a fragment of DNA appeared to 'teleport' or imprint itself between test tubes.

According to a team headed by Luc Montagnier, previously known for his work on HIV and AIDS, two test tubes, one of which contained a tiny piece of bacterial DNA, the other pure water, were surrounded by a weak electromagnetic field of 7Hz.

Eighteen hours later, after DNA amplification using a polymerase chain reaction, as if by magic the DNA was detectable in the test tube containing pure water.


hint: Water in both trees is your coils

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Old 05-26-2011, 04:33 PM
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Earth batteries and plants

Another experiment which may be relevant to your question... I placed a magnesium wire with a copper wire at opposite ends of a flower pot and connect them to opposite ends of a capacitor.
I was measuring volateg which was minmal until i placed several of them in a series.
however my wife was watching the plant growth and she swears her flowers were much more vibrant and larger than other years.
Now that I think about it once the rain stops and we can pot our flowers I may rig one pot as I descibed and the other with nothing to see how it grows. Or should I say IF the rain stops

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Old 05-26-2011, 05:02 PM
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I really think that water and minerals are taken up through plants in part by the voltage field between the sky and ground, so the sucking up of the water is the current flow, and the water and minerals are charged.

What if a plant had its roots in a container with either a conductive bottom, or a grid of conductors in the soil, and you connected a load between that and ground?
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperCaviTationIstic View Post
I really think that water and minerals are taken up through plants in part by the voltage field between the sky and ground, so the sucking up of the water is the current flow, and the water and minerals are charged.

What if a plant had its roots in a container with either a conductive bottom, or a grid of conductors in the soil, and you connected a load between that and ground?
No you make good sence...and my English spelling is terrable even though it is my first language, my German and Swiss german spelling is MUCh better..
I agree that the planst act as a a kind of conduit for the power. However it is possable to use plants in pots. Try putting a circuit in a pot as i descibed then try putting them in a series or parrallel just treat each pot as a seperate battery.
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperCaviTationIstic View Post
I really think that water and minerals are taken up through plants in part by the voltage field between the sky and ground, so the sucking up of the water is the current flow, and the water and minerals are charged.

What if a plant had its roots in a container with either a conductive bottom, or a grid of conductors in the soil, and you connected a load between that and ground?

You'll find your answer in the following links, link to growth of produce through electricity, think of it this way if it can receive, it can emit. So the effect you'll be reading about are mostly as a "receiving antenna". like the example of George O. SQUIER: Tree Antennas.

http://www.rexresearch.com/infolios/elcult1.pdf

http://www.rexresearch.com/infolios/elcult2.pdf

http://www.rexresearch.com/infolios/elcult3.pdf

ps: Not all experiments are related to this subject

hope it helps

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Old 05-26-2011, 06:10 PM
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If we look at the tuning of the trees, by placement, for exact wavelengths....well i'll pass the shovel to whoever volunteers
I mean, if such a condition exists, that distance sets up standing waves between the two trees, then one of them may have to be moved !
Thin and tall and on their own...ok... A couple of Redwoods in a field would be best ? does foliage amount count ? root depth ? root spread ?

If we consider traditional Tesla towers, there would seem a point in thoughts of fiber density, as though the fibers of the tree are the gauge of the conducting wire. Hard wood, soft wood, some have got to be better than others for a multitude of reasons.
It would be a fascinating experiment, to place a Primary coil at the base of a tree and pulse the coil from an exciter circuit.
If the resident birds suddenly rocket skyward with streamers of plasma from their feet, then that would indicate success.

This is all fascinating and my humour is due to wonder and excitement for the possibilities. Will be glued to this topic, or should that be rooted
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:15 PM
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Good thing open source exist...got a couple of Ficus in 2 different pots, I'll see what i can come up with....

hope more will join in

Couple of photos taken from the links i posted







A picture is worth a thousand words




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Old 05-26-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
If we look at the tuning of the trees, by placement, for exact wavelengths....well i'll pass the shovel to whoever volunteers
I mean, if such a condition exists, that distance sets up standing waves between the two trees, then one of them may have to be moved !
Thin and tall and on their own...ok... A couple of Redwoods in a field would be best ? does foliage amount count ? root depth ? root spread ?

If we consider traditional Tesla towers, there would seem a point in thoughts of fiber density, as though the fibers of the tree are the gauge of the conducting wire. Hard wood, soft wood, some have got to be better than others for a multitude of reasons.
It would be a fascinating experiment, to place a Primary coil at the base of a tree and pulse the coil from an exciter circuit.
If the resident birds suddenly rocket skyward with streamers of plasma from their feet, then that would indicate success.

This is all fascinating and my humour is due to wonder and excitement for the possibilities. Will be glued to this topic, or should that be rooted
Just wanted to say, that for the sake of starting experimentation of the concept, you must forgo all those questions for the moment, see first if there is an effect, then you start refining (that is my personal approach)

I would suggest you start with two same species (if you live in an apartment the higher the better i think) of tree/flower in similar pots and just try to replicate Dr Luc Montagnier's experiment or the following proposed by Slider2732

Quote:
It would be a fascinating experiment, to place a Primary coil at the base of a tree and pulse the coil from an exciter circuit.
If the resident birds suddenly rocket skyward with streamers of plasma from their feet, then that would indicate success.


Quote:
You MUST keep an open mind and use these methods as those successful have already used them to achieve success. Who are you willing to believe, those who have not succeeded or those who have?
Dr. Alexander Graham Bell
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:54 PM
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Here's a thought...a Bonsai power station !
i was thinking about that tree moving thing and decided a Bonsai garden might be a wonderful idea (for my back).
Quite feasibly, linked with the trick say of obtaining light from an LED by use of an AV to Ground etc, we could end up with a garden that self illuminates at night, has a water wheel feature and more...with no external electricity needed. The water wheel could be a Bedini/Muller/Romero wheel, generating power for a micro sprinkler that also waters the trees periodically.
Bonus being that you could probably charge your phone from it too..

We have a couple of Ficus here, except they're plastic and our kittens are normally sat in them
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:56 PM
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you tube

There are a couple of good youtube vidoes Unfortuneately I cant access them so heopefully can post the links tomorrow unless someone does sooner.
Just search "earh battery" in you tube and your
there was one of a guyr runing a calculatorfrom a couple of pots and another of two guys charging capacitors from a tree.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Here's a thought...a Bonsai power station !
i was thinking about that tree moving thing and decided a Bonsai garden might be a wonderful idea (for my back).
Quite feasibly, linked with the trick say of obtaining light from an LED by use of an AV to Ground etc, we could end up with a garden that self illuminates at night, has a water wheel feature and more...with no external electricity needed. The water wheel could be a Bedini/Muller/Romero wheel, generating power for a micro sprinkler that also waters the trees periodically.
Bonus being that you could probably charge your phone from it too..

We have a couple of Ficus here, except they're plastic and our kittens are normally sat in them
I think that the volume of water (being your coils for both trees or your tree) plays a major role in capturing radiant wave; a Bonzai being a tree "starved" of water would not do you much good.

Check this out:

Magnetic and electric effects on water

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Old 05-26-2011, 07:08 PM
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Hmm, fair point
I would presume that rapid growth varieties in normal conditions may yield good results. Mind you, a cactus may be another idea. Time I quit waffling and tried all this out. Again squire, GREAT thread idea

The earth batteries are very cool. That's something else to look at.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:10 PM
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Hmm, fair point
I would presume that rapid growth varieties in normal conditions may yield good results. Mind you, a cactus may be another idea. Time I quit waffling and tried all this out. Again squire, GREAT thread idea

The earth batteries are very cool. That's something else to look at.
That would be a great idea for another expeiment...a potted cactus verus a potted common flower that would get watered regularly
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:30 PM
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I may have an answer to that:

Quote:
"Although I can find no absolutely credible link through a google search and the debate could be settled more easily if either of us spoke Russian and had a knack for tracking down relatively ancient research (1920s-30s)...

Apparently the Russian scientist Alexander Chizhevsky, who proposed and thoroughly researched links between solar activity and biological response, found that bacteria in water responded to solar flares instantaneously, as opposed to the 8.3 minutes it should take for the photon bombardment to elicit a response."
Red Dog Bear: Why Your Brain is not a Quantum Computer

Quote:
"Life is a phenomenon. Its production is due to the influence of the dynamics of the cosmos on a passive subject. It lives due to dynamics, each oscillation of organic pulsation is coordinated with the cosmic heart in a grandiose whole of nebulas, stars, the sun and the planet."
- Alexander L Chizhevsky
If so, and I think it is, water is definitely your coil to catch radiant waves

a perfect example of that: (from the links in post#7)



another interesting experiment, this i may try it, just replace the conical antenna with a Rodin Coil (use rapid growth plant to have faster results.



link:

Alexander Chizhevsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cycles Research Institute Research Chizhevsky
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:51 PM
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one more info:

Wasserfadden, the floating water bridge experiment

YouTube - ‪Wasserfadden, the floating water bridge experiment‬‏

Quote:
Two brimful glasses of water are placed adjacent to each other on an insulating panel, and moved so their rims are nearly touching. A short length of (silk?) thread is wetted and placed so as to bridge across the rims of the glasses. A high voltage, low current power supply or Wimshurst electrostatic generator is connected to the water in the glasses, with one wire lead going to one glass, the other lead to the other.

When the high voltage power supply is turned on, the water is reported to move along the thread. If the thread is short and very thin, the fluid current will carry the thread along through the bridge. The thread will be entirely pumped into the ?NEGATIVE?? glass, but the conductive bridge of water will not break when the thread has left it. A short filament of pure water will be left behind. If the high-voltage supply is disconnected, the water filament falls apart. If salt is added to the water, this also disrupts the filament. There are reports that the water in the core of the liquid thread moves in one direction, while water in the surrounding shell goes opposite.
Weird Science: The Wasserfadden High Voltage Water-thread Experiment

note

Quote:
There are reports that the water in the core of the liquid thread moves in one direction, while water in the surrounding shell goes opposite.
sounds like rodin coil type of phenomena, if so then I suspect a third very weak electromagnetic field is created

If it can receive, it can emit
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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Got what you need guys, found this website and it explains in details how he made his set up. W5JGV has done a great job :



ps: this experiment is a proof of concept for transforming tree as Antenna, the next step would be to turn a tree into a radiant wave collector

ok guys i know this may sound crazy but why not try using a very large Rodin Coil (i love that coil) to replace the coils he used to surround the tree (off course you'll have to find a way to get it around the tree, or just use a "skinnier" tree )



ps: if i write all this is to inspire some of you to try to experiment and in case i forget (hope it is not information overload for you, sorry in advance )

link:

A Tree Antenna for the 600 Meter Band

http://www.w7aia.org/techinfo_files/...ee_Antenna.pdf

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Old 05-27-2011, 09:54 AM
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Now that is way cool ! I might just try that.

So It will just oscillate if I adjust the capacitance ? I have two x three gang capacitors like he uses on the tree. I just bought them without knowing why. I suppose I have found something to do with them now.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...aps.jpg?psid=1

I also have a few pretty big tree's. And some wire.

What's the plan for a radiant collector version ? Replicate the tree antenna and see what happens I guess, maybe a light will come on and show me what to do next.

Maybe I make two identical antennae ? What will happen if the tree is struck by lightning ? I'll have to put it where I can see the show if it does get hit.

Any more idea's MonsieurM.


Cheers
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:55 AM
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power from plants

Good morning everyone
Here are two of the youtube videos on the subject of power from plants I found a while ago
Through trialand error I determined that the first video used carbon abd magnesium rods.
The second one is a crewd set up but shows that it can work.
Instead of coils around the tree as MonsiuerM suggests I wonder is a simple metal band fastened 360 degrees around the tree wold work better. Just a thought.

As far as tree selection like i said I found solitaire high trees work better.
I am fortunate to have a ten acre hunting camp not far from my house so i can pick and chose the tree i use
Enjoy

Bizzy

YouTube - ‪ELECTRICITY FROM THE EARTH‬‏

YouTube - ‪free tree power‬‏
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:28 PM
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Guys, I want you to know that i truly appreciate your efforts and interest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
Now that is way cool ! I might just try that.

So It will just oscillate if I adjust the capacitance ? I have two x three gang capacitors like he uses on the tree. I just bought them without knowing why. I suppose I have found something to do with them now.

....Cheers
I am not much of a believer in chance, they were meant to be bought by you

As for how i interpret the experiment, it all evolves around creating a zone of activation, or "matching resonance", synchronized oscillation if you prefer and it seems to require time (ref the links below)

if you read the following posts you'll understand what i mean by zone of activation:

http://www.energeticforum.com/135946-post17.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/136257-post20.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/136258-post21.html

http://www.energeticforum.com/136338-post22.html


Common thread is water, try to find it in each exp (sort of "where is waldo" kind of game )

Cheers
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Old 05-27-2011, 01:44 PM
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you could also try to get inspired by the experiments, i posted previously. Take one set up and apply it to your plant.

vortex/spiral/ helix shape antenna is also used in Tszyan KAN'CHZHEN: Microwave Transfer of Biological Information experiment and also Otto MOHR Detonator Ray experiment (scifi )(post#37 of a better way to present periodic table).

Quote:
The cone-shaped antenna on top gathers the sun’s magnetic force which has transformed inside the instrument to motivated vibratory currents. Otto MOHR Detonator Ray





one more argument to add goes as follow:

More on Why Tree Trunks Spiral

Quote:
When I worked for NOM 's Environmental Research Labs in Boulder, we were once asked why lightning sometimes spirals down the trunk of a tree. While the answer was not proven, we observed that the path of least resistance might follow the spiral grain of the wood. I eventually found a tree with a spiral lightning mark and it followed the spiral grain exactly. One tree, of course, proves nothing.
link:

More on Why Tree Trunks Spiral, Alaska Science Forum

Thus the tree is your helix antenna

Enjoy

link to know more about helix antenna: (you'll find docs i posted on helix antenna)

Open Source Project for Tesla/Jackson Wireless Transmission

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Old 05-27-2011, 01:50 PM
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I would just like to add:

this is an open source project, so abide by the open source protocol and share your findings, please.
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Old 05-27-2011, 02:08 PM
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a fractal tree:




Your 3D Fractal Antenna provided by Nature

Cauliflower





more on fractal antenna:

The Brain is an Advanced Fractal Antenna
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:40 PM
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Thanks for all that info !
Although mainly concerning ambient reception, I think i'll go for a raised spiral pancake coil, similar to conventional Tesla towers. In own experiments with Bashar/Russell coilings, they work very effectively instead of purely flat for energy transmission.
I wonder if naturally occurring base of tree life accentuates tree properties. Maybe mushrooms or whatever though in a way I hope not, if the phrase became 'the magic is in the mushrooms'. Rings of mushrooms have always intrigued as to the reasons why.
With intending to build my own 27MHz R/C circuits as a project, this could link in very well. Imagine a 'ringer' circuit, where the radio signal is sent out by one tree, the aircraft/car uses the signal, but the majority is captured by another tree and returned to the transmitter. Hmmm
That relates to thoughts on live call-in radio shows. Station transmits, radio receives miles away and the radio is powered by mains electricity, person calls in using a plugged to the wall house phone and in one way of thinking there is a loop.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:55 PM
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This may answer your question about root and tree selection:

Quote:
This works best with large limbs, and does not work at all with twigs. Spiral grain is evident in trunks, limbs, and roots.

Two types of observations suggest that tree growth form is genetically determined. First, growth forms are restricted within a species: limber pine grows straight or sinistrally; ponderosa pine, subalpine fir, and Engelmann spruce grow straight or dextrally. Second, the growth forms are intermixed in a stand. A sinistral limber pine can be surrounded by limber pines growing straight; the intermixing of growth forms in a stand suggests that the variation is not environmentally determined.

I noticed that spiral trees were rare in the area around Long Lake, but they were common near tree line on Mount Audubon. This pattern is repeated in other areas, and appears to be common on the eastern slope of the Front Range. In general, spiral trees are rare in deep forests and valleys, and are most common on windy ridges and at tree line.
Untitled Document

info on root growth:



http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pag...s/root-typ.gif
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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So, if a couple of presumptions are made, there would seem to be clear reasons for the structure of each species. I know most is obvious to anyone more familiar with our foliaged friends, but when relating to energy usage it's all new to me at least.
I know how a tree works, but, again it may only be part of the whole picture and as far as science considered it to be a full working picture model...so they didn't look at other factors.

Those trees within woods must 'work' differently to those on the outskirt edges or on the windy ridges.
Do they all collect a similar amount of energy ? that's one of the biggest questions I have.
Do some not need much more, or to use much more, than is given by photosynthesis ? What function does the energy collection actually have for the tree itself ?
Could it be, that the energy is in fact not used by the tree, but by microbes and bacteria around and in the tree that keep it healthy ?

An interesting observation from your last post, is that it would give an inverse to the expected model. That is, if the spiral trees were most efficient and if the energy reception was a fairly linear constant for all trees - the spiral trees are on the wrong side !
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzy View Post
Good morning everyone
Here are two of the youtube videos on the subject of power from plants I found a while ago
Through trialand error I determined that the first video used carbon abd magnesium rods.
The second one is a crewd set up but shows that it can work.
Instead of coils around the tree as MonsiuerM suggests I wonder is a simple metal band fastened 360 degrees around the tree wold work better. Just a thought.

As far as tree selection like i said I found solitaire high trees work better.
I am fortunate to have a ten acre hunting camp not far from my house so i can pick and chose the tree i use
Enjoy

Bizzy

YouTube - ‪ELECTRICITY FROM THE EARTH‬‏

YouTube - ‪free tree power‬‏
Great Vidz Bizzy, Thanks

the second vid (the one with the tree) intrigued me, I wonder if the nails were placed North South/ Eat West, you would not see a difference.

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Old 05-27-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MonsieurM View Post
Great Vidz Bizzy, Thanks

the second vid (the one with the tree) intrigued me, I wonder if the nails were placed North South/ Eat West, you would not see a difference.

MonsieurM
You are most welcome...as a far as which sides the video doesnt say. And during my limited tests I did try N S E W on a couple of trees and found no differance in volatge

Actually a thought just occured to . I did these tests long before I made my first joule thief, I now wonder if they were put in a series to increase voltage if they would be strong enough to run LEDs through a joule thief.
That may be another great concept to explore.
Bizzy
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post

An interesting observation from your last post, is that it would give an inverse to the expected model. That is, if the spiral trees were most efficient and if the energy reception was a fairly linear constant for all trees - the spiral trees are on the wrong side !
You are quite right, I would personally favor the tap root tree, because of its foliage and deep roots, you have to remember that the basic construct of nature is the fractal architecture, so it goes to say that the bigger the foliage (ie:fractally patterned leaf) the better the reception.

what i was trying to show is that helix architecture is at basis of how tree grows.

Did you also think about the presence of a body of water close to the tree. If as i said previously water is your coil, the proximity of a larger coil (ie: the lac) all the tree would need is to resonate with the lac, nature does not like to waste energy.

Actually, if i follow what i just wrote; i guess then spirally trees are the way to go, because they have coiled in order to capture more "energy". (A simple analogy would be to think of the spirally trees as less lazy then the ones close to a large body of water)

maybe

ps: Just imagine the tree as a large column of coiled water, this may help in your experimentation. You also have to think a tree as a helix antenna that wants to capture as much "radiant energy"/"ambient energy" as it can. a sort of adaptive antenna.

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Last edited by MonsieurM; 05-29-2011 at 01:33 PM.
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