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  #1  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:50 AM
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Macchendra Macchendra is offline
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Pyrazo Replication Info

Hello all.

This is intended to be a somewhat cleaner thread regarding the dissemination of info useful for people who are replicating this circuit. I will begin this thread by presenting what is a more workable variation of the timing and tuning circuit of the Pyrazo circuit.

The transformer depicted in this circuit is the timing isolation circuit. It is intended to be used with the tuner in timer variation.

Enjoy!
-David.
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File Type: jpg pyrazo ttimer tuner.jpg (24.4 KB, 121 views)
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2011, 11:25 AM
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Proper Cathode Biasing for Decoupled Timing Circuit

Here is a version of the Pyrazo circuit that has the proper cathode biasing for the previously posted decoupled tuner and timing circuit. The diodes are necessary to prevent shorts.

Some design tips: Used dual triodes and quad op-amp chips.

On the timing and tuning circuit previously posted, the four op amps on the left serve the following purposes from left to right:
differential lo-pass filter, comparator, inverting integrator, and comparator again.

The four op amps on the right serve the following purposes from top to bottom:
voltage follower, inverter, voltage follower, inverter.

The circuit in the upper left is just a simple virtual ground for the op amps.

R5, R6, R7, and R8 may as well be the same, as might C2 and C3. Together, they set the frequency for the lo-pass filter according to the formula: f = 1/(2*pi*R*C).

If you are using a car battery (which you should) then you'll need properly rated power resistors for both your heater circuit, and also your virtual ground circuit. The amps off of a car batter will fry either pretty quickly.

Automotive coils make a handy source of stepdown transformers.


Enjoy!
-David
Attached Images
File Type: gif pyrazo cathode biased.gif (7.0 KB, 67 views)
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:34 PM
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One last change...

Ok, there is one more change, isolating the individual cathode biases. I found a nice way to do this. Unfortunately, you'll have to use four separate op amps for the circuits on the right side, each with their own voltage supply pins. You can still use a quad on the op amps on the left...

Enjoy!
-David
Attached Images
File Type: gif pyrazo cathode biased.gif (6.6 KB, 36 views)
File Type: gif pyrazo ttimer tuner.gif (6.1 KB, 165 views)
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:50 PM
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And just in case...

And just in case you are entirely unfamiliar with the circuit, the transformer in the timing circuit (labeled T1) is the same one from the upper left portion of the circuit with the tubes, next to the antenna.

Enjoy!
-David
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macchendra View Post
And just in case you are entirely unfamiliar with the circuit, the transformer in the timing circuit (labeled T1) is the same one from the upper left portion of the circuit with the tubes, next to the antenna.

Enjoy!
-David
As I understand that in your current course, you are looking to make waves.

you have posted very relevant information, however I can almost assure you there will be few if any replication attempts!

If you really want to make a splash, show a working....something.

I often post concepts of my builds, but do not show final product, it gets me negative attention, My conscience is clean, because I shared, but I don't get in trouble.

But you don't seem to care about this.... so if you really really want to make yourself a self fortifying causality loop then... remove all doubt, inspire others to do what you have done by using visual evidence, that is what this forum thrives off of.

There are a lot of capable inventors, tinkerers, EE's, but they need inspiration, more than a diagram.

Water your seed!
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:07 PM
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I really wouldn't...

So no help, then? And you speak for everyone? OK, then. The plans are free, but the licensing is not. How's that for fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
As I understand that in your current course, you are looking to make waves.

you have posted very relevant information, however I can almost assure you there will be few if any replication attempts!

If you really want to make a splash, show a working....something.

I often post concepts of my builds, but do not show final product, it gets me negative attention, My conscience is clean, because I shared, but I don't get in trouble.

But you don't seem to care about this.... so if you really really want to make yourself a self fortifying causality loop then... remove all doubt, inspire others to do what you have done by using visual evidence, that is what this forum thrives off of.

There are a lot of capable inventors, tinkerers, EE's, but they need inspiration, more than a diagram.

Water your seed!
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:14 PM
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I agree to Armagdn03 here. Do you know how many different kinds of ciruits are out there to test? I would not be able to test them all out until retirement. They all are interesting and such, but to get the ball rolling you need to do more, some scope shots, simulations equations or the like. If you do this thing yourself and need help, I will help if I can. Most of us are already involved in different projects which each of us find more interesting. Many people are proposing their bright ideas lately expecting someone else to do the testing for them (I am not innocent myself ), but this aproach wont work.
Good luck!

Jetijs
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:54 PM
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Bounty...

Ok, a bounty, then.

$10,000,000 of the first $50,000,000 of the licensing fees of this device for whoever demonstrates the first working prototype.
And $1,000,000 of the first $50,000,000 of the licensing fees of this device to each of the next 5 distinct individuals that demonstrate a working prototype.

I have really dumped all of my money into my business, and can barely afford macaroni and cheese these days, much less a decent oscilloscope and the components needed. On a related note (related to my starving) if any y'all want decent business phone service, try SyCoTel.

But there are those who have hungered for any clue to Moray's or Tesla's devices. This has a sound theory and it also uses the same number of tubes that Tesla used. I am in Texas, so this is as binding as a contract.

Peace!
-David
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macchendra View Post
So no help, then? And you speak for everyone? OK, then. The plans are free, but the licensing is not. How's that for fair.
Lol, no no, I do not speak for anybody other than myself. I just have hung around this place for far too long, and....I want you to succeed!
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:13 AM
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Thanks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
Lol, no no, I do not speak for anybody other than myself. I just have hung around this place for far too long, and....I want you to succeed!
It would be nice. :-) My point in bring up the spectacles here in the other thread is not so much to make waves, but to show that the signs indicate the technology eventually succeeds, and to get people to attempt to help. I'm hoping sooner rather than later.

I am amused by the model of car Tesla chose, put its hood ornament as my avatar, and I would be even more amused if Tesla motors started using the device. It'd certainly keep a lot of batteries out of the landfills.
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Old 05-19-2011, 02:23 PM
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Thanks!!

Macchendra, Thanks for all you have shared!!
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:04 PM
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Relays instead of tubes.

Here is a noisier version of the device that might wear out more quickly. It can be used for higher frequencies, but it is best suited for lower ones, such as drawing off of the 60 hz high power lines. Perfect for a motorized bicycle. Very steampunk! :-D

You can find relays cheaper than tubes, and the use of them keeps the timing/tuner circuit nicely isolated.

Be sure to orient the coils of the relays so that they are not affected by the spike from the pulse transformer.
Attached Images
File Type: gif pyrazo relay.gif (4.6 KB, 147 views)
File Type: gif pyrazo timer tuner for relays.gif (5.3 KB, 143 views)
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:07 PM
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As much help as I am capable of giving...

Here are good values for 60 Hz.

R1,R2: 70 Ohm (power resistors)
R3,R4: 220K Ohms
C1: 220 uF
R5,R6,R7,R8: 800 Ohms
C2,C3: 3 uF
R9: 10K Ohm
C4 100 uF

You will need to take it step by step as you assemble it.
Start with making sure the tuner/timer circuit is working with the following steps:
Make sure you are getting proper voltage from your power supply/virtual ground circuit.
Next, run 60Hz from your function generator through the T1 isolation transformer and scope it just to see how it comes out. It should be clean and not shifted.
Then assemble the circuit surrounding the op amp on the far left. This is a simple lo pass filter the out put should be in phase. You can test it with the function generator to see how it responds to changes in frequency.
Next, add the second op amp from the left. You should see a nice clean square wave output from this.
Next add the third op amp from the left. This is an integrator. The square wave should now be a triangle and shifted 90 degrees.
After that, the fourth op amp should make your triangle wave back into a square wave again, but still shifted 90 degrees.
The last set of op amps on the right should then be tested.

When you are done you should have a clean signal to drive whatever switching device you choose: relays, transistors, tubes, etc.

Next, hook up your antenna. You'll want to go through the primary of the isolation transformer and the pulse transformer then to ground without the switches for initial testing. See if the signal you are trying to work with is strong enough to be detected by the op amps. If you need to boost the signal, you can vary the ratio of R5,R6 to R7,R8. R7 and R8 are the only values that have to be paired with the capacitors C2 and C3 to get the frequency you want. You'll want R7=R8 and C2=C3, and you will also want frequency cutoff to be around 65 Hz. You can use an online lo pass filter calculator to experiment with the values while keeping the frequency cutoff the same. The gain of the lo pass filter will be about R7/R5 (which should be R8/R6), and you might want to tweak R5,R6 to get the gain you want.

Once you are getting a clean signal through the whole rig, you can then throw the switches into the mix. The switches should distort the signal with the spike mid peak, and the signal should grow.

Peace!
-David
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:45 PM
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Hello sir,

I am in the process of moving at the moment, and have several other projects on the burner, but I would definitly give this a go.

Give me a week or so, and I will put what resources I have into taking a look at this!
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:46 PM
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I have the feeling I may have been instrumental in getting Macchendra to post here if he is the owner of the pyrazo web site. I had written to ask him some questions about the circuit after buying some of the tubes supposedly used in Tesla's 'box' for the Pierce Arrow. It had been some time before I got a reply but it was a very nice reply filled with information. So if that is the case as I suspect I don't think Macchendra is trying to scam any one here and has a well researched idea he really thinks will work.

Either way I find the info very interesting and it's on the very long 'to do' list.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:13 PM
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More details...

Here are more details on the design. Tubes are definitely going to be tricky, because even with the op amp design I have provided, you will have to ensure that the output of the op amps are set to within specifications for the tubes, in voltage and amperage. Also, with the tubes, the heater circuit has to be of the right voltage and amperage.
The whole timing circuit, now done with the op amps, does not share a common ground with the rest of the circuit. This means that in order for the grid to be more negative than the cathode you have to have some means of making the grid voltage relative to the cathode, like the diodes I have going to the -Vcc of the op amps in the last timer design for the tubes:


All of this really makes the tube approach something fit for only those who are pretty experienced at all of this.

Relays should be able to provide a nice proof of concept and do not involve as much expense, the challenge of the heater circuit, the challenge of side effects from cathode biasing, or the challenge of being precise with the voltage and amperage from the timing signal.

Modern relays are also available in high frequencies and can be very durable.


Here are some more pictures to help people get their heads around the concept.

Including one that breaks down the components of the timing circuit.


One that shows the expected waveforms.


And one that shows the intended operation of the device.


Some links that help with understanding the various components are:

The clipper component:
Clipper (electronics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The differential lo-pass filter op amp circuit:
Phase Locked Loops
Operational amplifier applications - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Low-pass filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The comparators:
Operational amplifier applications - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The inverting integrator:
Operational amplifier applications - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where the voltage spike in the secondary comes from:
Ignition coil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Peace!
-David
Attached Images
File Type: gif pyrazo timer tuner for relays color coded.gif (10.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: gif pyrazo waveforms.gif (7.3 KB, 40 views)
File Type: gif animatedpr.gif (10.2 KB, 39 views)
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:33 PM
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The link on the Ignition coil sucks...

The link on the Ignition coil sucks...

A better explanation of the voltage spike in the secondary is that when the primary is interrupted mid peak, the voltage in the secondary is proportional to dI/dt, which is theoretically -infinity, but practically much less extreme than that. That voltage spike is shunted back to the antenna in a direction that pulls the signal in.

The two driving forces in the circuit are the signal, and the voltage spike from the secondary.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:58 PM
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Bounty, reoffer... easy money.

$10,000,000 of the first $50,000,000 of the licensing fees of this device for whoever demonstrates the first working prototype.
And $1,000,000 of the first $50,000,000 of the licensing fees of this device to each of the next 5 distinct individuals that demonstrate a working prototype.

I'll even help build it if anyone is in Plano, TX.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Macchendra View Post
Here are good values for 60 Hz.

R1,R2: 70 Ohm (power resistors)
R3,R4: 220K Ohms
C1: 220 uF
R5,R6,R7,R8: 800 Ohms
C2,C3: 3 uF
R9: 10K Ohm
C4 100 uF

You will need to take it step by step as you assemble it.
Start with making sure the tuner/timer circuit is working with the following steps:
Make sure you are getting proper voltage from your power supply/virtual ground circuit.
Next, run 60Hz from your function generator through the T1 isolation transformer and scope it just to see how it comes out. It should be clean and not shifted.
Then assemble the circuit surrounding the op amp on the far left. This is a simple lo pass filter the out put should be in phase. You can test it with the function generator to see how it responds to changes in frequency.
Next, add the second op amp from the left. You should see a nice clean square wave output from this.
Next add the third op amp from the left. This is an integrator. The square wave should now be a triangle and shifted 90 degrees.
After that, the fourth op amp should make your triangle wave back into a square wave again, but still shifted 90 degrees.
The last set of op amps on the right should then be tested.

When you are done you should have a clean signal to drive whatever switching device you choose: relays, transistors, tubes, etc.

Next, hook up your antenna. You'll want to go through the primary of the isolation transformer and the pulse transformer then to ground without the switches for initial testing. See if the signal you are trying to work with is strong enough to be detected by the op amps. If you need to boost the signal, you can vary the ratio of R5,R6 to R7,R8. R7 and R8 are the only values that have to be paired with the capacitors C2 and C3 to get the frequency you want. You'll want R7=R8 and C2=C3, and you will also want frequency cutoff to be around 65 Hz. You can use an online lo pass filter calculator to experiment with the values while keeping the frequency cutoff the same. The gain of the lo pass filter will be about R7/R5 (which should be R8/R6), and you might want to tweak R5,R6 to get the gain you want.

Once you are getting a clean signal through the whole rig, you can then throw the switches into the mix. The switches should distort the signal with the spike mid peak, and the signal should grow.

Peace!
-David
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:34 PM
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Meh?

Meh? Well, I will have the money to do it shortly. Thanks for your time and interest.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:18 PM
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Still around Macchendra? Any luck on this fascinating circuit?
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