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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:35 PM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Wind and wave farms could affect Earth's energy balance

He concludes that it is a mistake to assume that energy sources like wind and waves are truly renewable. Build enough wind farms to replace fossil fuels, he says, and we could seriously deplete the energy available in the atmosphere, with consequences as dire as severe climate change.

Wind and wave farms could affect Earth's energy balance - environment - 30 March 2011 - New Scientist
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:02 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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Dont trust any German Scientist, they are brainwashed and braindead. lol.
Suck from the enviroment, Oh shure. So where does the Power now come from at a Atomic power plant and all other Generators like Cars atm? Biological from Walmart. Huh.
And all the Years before all Power Station did suck it from the Enviroment. Yeah right. Great Scientists. But they wanna teach at the other Side, that Energy comes with crossing Fluxlines. And suddenly, they found a new Hole to crouch in, its taken from the Enviroment, or her screwed Law of Thermodynamics dont work anymore. Poor Mr Milkovic.

And at the other Side, they flood every Corner with Electrical Emissions from her Crap Installations anywhere. Yeah, just dont mention that, but we suck from the Enviroment, because it match so well to her Theories.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:02 AM
ztec2002 ztec2002 is offline
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what a load of crap, just one mountain deflects more wind than all the wind mills that we can possibly build. What are their facts based on? the moon?just anther scientist paid by the mainstream oil cartel, to feed us lies . Just to keep us buying their oil to the last drop or else. lol

cheers ztec2002
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:09 PM
goldsphere goldsphere is offline
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ELF on wind farms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtweth View Post
He concludes that it is a mistake to assume that energy sources like wind and waves are truly renewable. Build enough wind farms to replace fossil fuels, he says, and we could seriously deplete the energy available in the atmosphere, with consequences as dire as severe climate change.

Wind and wave farms could affect Earth's energy balance - environment - 30 March 2011 - New Scientist
What worries me more is the ELF that is making people physically sick.
I saw a documentary on it recently but can't find it. The people out of Ballarat had to move off their farm as they couldn't stand it any more.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:29 PM
philopolymath philopolymath is offline
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Strongly against taking ANY energy from Earth.

I see taking Nuclear,Gas,Oil,Solar,wind, tidal, hydro-electric, gethermal as totally redundant, inefficient, dangerous, arrogant and irresposible, when there is an infinate ocean of Aether to be tapped.
Further I find it natural and intuitive to reason that taking energy from Wind, Tidal and Geothermal ANY Earth resource is parasitic suicidal counter-productive theft from the patron of which we are the custodians.
It is further testament to man's ignorence, arrogance and disrespect for Earth & ourselves

Perhaps there will be a day when our understanding is sufficient that we may gently sway or influence these forces to our mutual benifit but I would choose to err on the side of caution.
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:48 PM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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Yes,I agree.Only aether can be utilized and even that not without risks.
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:23 AM
arKzeRo arKzeRo is offline
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yep agreed

I do not believe that there is any resources available for pillage without consequence! Who cane prove that there is this great ever lasting either energy pool anyway?
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:44 AM
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When it comes to energy it's like the politics of food propaganda. For every percent you can sway people away from one type of food to another type you have just moved billions of dollars in public spending. The best way to do that is buy some researchers who will lean toward what you want to prove. Publish their results widely and watch your profits soar. So unless you do exhaustive research in following the money trail of where such information comes from you need to be very suspicious of it's validity.

I sense that big oil is starting to get worried. That article on wind farms has a lot of holes in it and is full on nonsensical speculation while ignoring the factors of oil usage.
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:38 AM
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boguslaw boguslaw is offline
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What is here to consider ? It's simple. If there is a cloud full of rain and a wind is pushing it on location of cereal cultivation area and there is a wind farm in that path you know what will happen...
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:49 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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Well, i do or do not believe.... will still end up in believing and not knowing.
Quote:
I do not believe that there is any resources available for pillage without consequence
Energy, or Power usual exists between 2 opposite Potentials.
Do anyone 'believe' that you can suck out the Enviroment with laying to much Generators to eachother and they do not produce Energy anymore?
Or an other Example, when you would build a lot Watermills, do anyone think, the Water dont flows the River anymore?

And Who knows really, if the Earth is driven by the Sun or other Forces, as by itself.
When someone would make such, kinda early Statements as this Guy there, usual, Peoples get called crazy.

One thing i could consider is, when there are to much Windmills, that it could create a Speedup effect in Winds, like in Tunnels, but seriously, are the Windmills build in Tunnels?
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Last edited by Joit; 05-21-2011 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:07 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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But seriously, i think, the Goverments give a Damn on it.
They have Technology and Physik, what is different from the Mainstream and 50 Years in front.
Whereelse goes the Technology, what they do supress.
There is a book out from P Violette who talks about a lot of Things.
And therefor, its more like, that they try to sproad a new Scam.
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:27 PM
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How many here have seen a wind farm? I've seen quite a few and some had an extensive number of them covering a lot of hillside. They are not packed like sardines. And some of the big ones can generate a LOT of power with each individual windmill. Yet I can assure you they do not slow down the wind blowing and a forest of trees will do much more to divert the wind but only so some of it goes over the top of them.

They talk about heat being generated by them as if that's something significant. It's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the heat generated by gas powered engines, coal fired power and so on. This whole idea that there is some negative effect from windmills is

The biggest real complaint and may be part of what's driving this is those who live in areas being considered for wind farms are concerned about the cosmetic effect. They don't want to see them and while I could understand it is a small concern compared to the alternative negative effects from most other traditional power sources.
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:42 PM
bugler bugler is offline
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The previos course at the university I studied eolic technology.

Even though I cannot claim any real deep knowledge I don't think that harvesting wind energy will have a negative impact.

Wind is created by the Sun rays hitting the Earth in an asymetric way. Some places are heated the most (Ecuador) and some places are the least heated (poles). This asymetry creates the different wind currents (there are 3 areas of currents between Ecuador and poles).

I think that a wind farm has the same effect in the wind as a forrest and nobody complains abuot the effect of forrests.

but I could be wrong.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:13 AM
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elias elias is offline
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That is ridiculous

It is obvious that the oil cartels are afraid of losing profit. Our cities with large
buildings then must be the main obstacle for wind, not the wind turbines! or
maybe that was why they demolished the twin towers! That was the most
non-sense article I have read so far.

According to thermodynamics laws, Earth cannot cool down ever, you know
why? Because it is absorbing energy from the sun ALL the time, and how is
that it cools down? Where does the extra heat go? It cannot escape to the
vacuum of space. If we could convert heat to cold, and take energy from it,
we are decreasing entropy, but that is what Earth does, takes the warmth
from the sun and converts it to life! If it were not so, we would die because of
the indefinite warming of the planet by the Sun.

This was only one example how their flawed understanding leads us to believe.
Now how come they judge about "sucking energy from the wind" by using their
flawed science? That is based on their flawed beliefs.

Certainly dams, nuclear power plants, and fossil fuels power plants are causing
the most harm to the ecosystem than wind farms.

Belief in lack and destruction is the main cause of such articles, as the first commenter says:
Quote:
interesting study that firms up my gut instinct that, somehow, renewables were too good to be true at some basic level
I feel sorry about how these people see the world, a dead world approaching
destruction. These people have lost their ability to see beauty and
abundance, not realizing that their body is the perfect example of
"too good to be true."
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:48 AM
dougyt dougyt is offline
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This was a subject I was thinking about a little while back, as the world relies on some movement of air to maintain weather systems and temperatures, would the windmills remove some of its energy and slow down the airstreams. The more I've read here, the more I agree with those saying that the windmills would have a very negligible or even no effect.
As most of the winds which affect weather would be acting above the height of the windmills I can't see them changing anything. I guess it would have to be tested and we'd find out any problems in a few generations time.
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Old 05-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Savvypro Savvypro is offline
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Quote:
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As most of the winds which affect weather would be acting above the height of the windmills I can't see them changing anything.
Bingo - you hit the nail on the head.

The articles premiss almost sounds like the scientist is trying to impose a Heavyside restriction, that the only wind that matters and exists is that hitting the fins. Everything else being irrelevant, including the 100+ or so miles of Atmosphere with most of it being within the first 11 miles or so.

Here in the UK there were a group of environmentalists (who weren't surfers) calming that tide turbines that operate under water, would drastically reduce the waves for surfers. At the locations were surfing takes place, as that's the locations most likely to get the tide turbines installed. Funny thing is that a group of actual surfers who are for the tide turbines (sound like an oxymoron) came out with figures showing that the likelihood would be at most a 5% reduction - so little that no surfer could actually tell if there was actually any impact on the wave height and surfing conditions.

The article would only be valid if there were plans to build for example: wind turbines which were 100% efficient at turning wind into rotation. Ones which remove all the actual wind movement. Or massive turbines with fins hundreds of meters or even miles long, a turbine that big would surely have an impact on the enviroment.

I personally am starting to think that Geo Thermal energy extraction is the way to go in comparison to the other so called renewable (the little to no down time in generation capability - excluding maintenance). But not only for energy generation but for easing of fault lines to relive pressure, if you will, so as to prevent massive abnormal earth quakes.

During the recent solar minimum, earth quakes had an upper seismic ceiling if you will, as solar events began again - we've seen massive earth quakes, ones which go above the the seismic ceiling of about 6.5.

On the talk of tapping the aether, ether or the vacuum or what every else you want to call that energy field and having no impact - sorry but thatís just wrong. Iím not talking about if everyone had access to unlimited energy, the earth would be cooked based on explosive energy tapping or cooled based on implosive energy tapping. Just the basic principle of cause and effect. Doing something to the energy field and assuming no effect or impact will cause problems. Lets say that on a small scale the impact is so small it's in-measurable. What happens when you have millions if not billions of taping events - then what?

For example: a single car placed on a newly discovered earth like planet would have hardly any impact on it, but with hundreds of millions of cars thatís a whole different issue.

The no impact statements remind me of the time when radiation was assumed and was thought of as harmless, but after over 100 years of use, study and observations - the reality is different.
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Last edited by Savvypro; 05-22-2011 at 12:32 PM.
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