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  #1  
Old 05-04-2011, 11:34 AM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Question How to trigger a multicoiler

I'm getting closer to assemble a small Bedini multicoiler
8 or 9 coils, to begin with, much room left for more
Then I started to wonder...
Is it better to trigger all coils at the same time,
or is it better so trigger them in sequence?
Any experience anyone?

/Hob
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
I'm getting closer to assemble a small Bedini multicoiler
8 or 9 coils, to begin with, much room left for more
Then I started to wonder...
Is it better to trigger all coils at the same time,
or is it better so trigger them in sequence?
Any experience anyone?

/Hob
Hi Hob, IMO and experience it is better to trigger them together. Triggering them seperatly can cause poor rotor movement and inconsistant harvesting of the spikes.

Thanks


Bit's
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit's-n-Bytes View Post
Hi Hob, IMO and experience it is better to trigger them together. Triggering them seperatly can cause poor rotor movement and inconsistant harvesting of the spikes.

Thanks


Bit's
Each power coil could have its own trigger coil and be placed anywhere around the wheel, but I guess You're right, one trigger coil to trigger all power coils, as in Bedini's own 10-coiler, but care has then to be taken to place both magnets and coils at the right spot.

I was playing around yesterday with two complete SSG circuits, one with a NPN and the other with a PNP to bounce the spike back and forth between the two batteries, and also with one battery and one cap. It worked fine, not sure it it was effective though. Couldn't determine the best timing, will try it again. But I guess Bedini's own recipe works the best?

Then there is the size of the power coils. My guess is that when saturated they should just mask the core in the coil from the magnet, so that the magnet first pulls in by attraction and then when the coil gets powered the magnet will just freewheel on as if the core was not there, and not push the magnet away from the coil? Otherwise it wouldn't be an attraction motor, right?

/Hob
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:11 PM
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I concur with Bit's 110%. One trigger, one master and as many slaves as you wish. I can imagine sequenced triggering but this is much simpler and better way. Accurate magnet spacing and equal gap between the core and passing magnet is v.important.
My take on the way it operates is that iron core attracts the magnet. Magnet moving further triggers coil (potential appearing due to the variable magnetic field over inductor)which becomes energized. In this state the coil represents a magnet with both poles and Bloch Wall in the middle. When energized, both poles become stronger. Bloch Wall can be visualized as a narrow strip. Magnet moving further away from conductor causes collapse of the MF and decompressing both coil poles. Also, Bloch Wall expands, letting additional energy from the environment to flow in. As a result, high voltage spike exceeding many folds input appears across the master winding and strong repelling force (North) kicks the magnet away.
I hope I was able to express myself clear enough. Also, this is the way I understand. Not saying that I'm right.


Vtech
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:14 PM
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OK, thanks, one trigger it is!



/Hob
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
OK, thanks, one trigger it is!



/Hob
Good luck with your build Hob
I'm working on multicoiler (6) as well atm. Can't decide on the wire (21 or 18) and number of strands. I can either fit 6 filar #18 on my spools or 8 filar #21. Now, the question is; which will yield better results, 35 firing circuits with #18 wire or 47 circuits with #21 wire?
I would also like to try "Wilson Coils" but then #18 is out of the question since it won't leave me any room to fit an extra winding. I think this is leading me towards the answer to my own question


Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 05-04-2011 at 08:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:55 PM
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Hi guys.

Ive done multiple triggers before. Can get tricky, but has its merits. One thing that gets annoying is adjusting multiple base resistances on all your triggering circuits. For best recovery I concur with Bits.

@ Chisel, I reckon the 6 AWG 18, you will push a bit more current and have to tune accordingly, but it will be a more powerful charger.

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Old 05-04-2011, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
Hi guys.

Ive done multiple triggers before. Can get tricky, but has its merits. One thing that gets annoying is adjusting multiple base resistances on all your triggering circuits. For best recovery I concur with Bits.

@ Chisel, I reckon the 6 AWG 18, you will push a bit more current and have to tune accordingly, but it will be a more powerful charger.

Regards
Thanks ren I appreciate your advice.


Vtech
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2011, 11:09 PM
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Smile

Has anyone tried putting some "slave" coils in series or combinations?

The Bedini Multicoil schematic I have has them all in parallel....with each coil having it's own transistor....

Any thoughts?

Hopes and Dreams....

Todd
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:13 AM
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BTW, here is the circuit i wrote about:



Its two SSG circuits, one with a PNP and one with a NPN
this makes it possible to connect two (or any even number of) SSG's in series
and then connect them into a ring like an Ouroboros
each battery will then work as both a driving and a charging battery

/Hob
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
BTW, here is the circuit i wrote about:



Its two SSG circuits, one with a PNP and one with a NPN
this makes it possible to connect two (or any even number of) SSG's in series
and then connect them into a ring like an Ouroboros
each battery will then work as both a driving and a charging battery

/Hob
Hob, are you planning to expand this according to the Norse mythology - serpent Jormungand Just kiddin'. But seriously, interesting concept. One thing I'm not sure about; what battery may say to that? He will be pulled and pushed. Capacitor wouldn't care but ions may get dizzy. Just a thought.


Vtech
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2011, 04:26 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Hob, are you planning to expand this according to the Norse mythology - serpent Jormungand Just kiddin'. But seriously, interesting concept. One thing I'm not sure about; what battery may say to that? He will be pulled and pushed. Capacitor wouldn't care but ions may get dizzy. Just a thought.


Vtech
Yes, Im aware of that,
capacitors instead of batteries is probably better,
maybe each cap connected to a battery in parallel through a diode?

/Hob
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
Yes, Im aware of that,
capacitors instead of batteries is probably better,
maybe each cap connected to a battery in parallel through a diode?

/Hob
I thought of that but there is another problem. In such configuration we're extracting negative energy and feeding into the battery. This is fine but same battery, charged with negative doesn't work well as primary, powering SSG. Therefore, negative would need to get converted (in a cap) into positive before being discharged into the battery.


Vtech
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
I thought of that but there is another problem. In such configuration we're extracting negative energy and feeding into the battery. This is fine but same battery, charged with negative doesn't work well as primary, powering SSG. Therefore, negative would need to get converted (in a cap) into positive before being discharged into the battery.


Vtech
I'm not so sure about the "negative energy" being anything special
other than being "upside down" in a standard SSG circuit schema
which makes it cumbersome to harvest
thus the special charging battery
or the cap that be dumped to driving battery
I don't believe in anything magic about the "negative energy" other than that

/Hob
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
I'm not so sure about the "negative energy" being anything special
other than being "upside down" in a standard SSG circuit schema
which makes it cumbersome to harvest
thus the special charging battery
or the cap that be dumped to driving battery
I don't believe in anything magic about the "negative energy" other than that

/Hob
No, I'm not referring to a magic either but I found that negatively charged batteries are formatted differently and i didn't found them working well as a primary/source/input in SSG energizers. Also, I do remember John Bedini saying the same thing, that if you want to swap batteries back and forth they should be charged with positive. Perhaps someone can jump in and clarify this. (Bit's, John K, Matt, Stevan.C, Ren? anybody?) It is just my observation, not an attempt to create a new theory.
I would like to try your idea in practical way.


Vtech
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
No, I'm not referring to a magic either but I found that negatively charged batteries are formatted differently and i didn't found them working well as a primary/source/input in SSG energizers. Also, I do remember John Bedini saying the same thing, that if you want to swap batteries back and forth they should be charged with positive. Perhaps someone can jump in and clarify this. (Bit's, John K, Matt, Stevan.C, Ren? anybody?) It is just my observation, not an attempt to create a new theory.
I would like to try your idea in practical way.


Vtech
I have heard that too but not experienced it myself.
And although that is what Bedini says, its not what he is doing in the videos, right?
Confusing it is.

The rocking of the battery not being suitable for batteries but for caps I buy,
but not the difference between positive and negative energy being anything else than orientation on the paper when drawing it.
Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

/Hob
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
No, I'm not referring to a magic either but I found that negatively charged batteries are formatted differently and i didn't found them working well as a primary/source/input in SSG energizers. Also, I do remember John Bedini saying the same thing, that if you want to swap batteries back and forth they should be charged with positive. Perhaps someone can jump in and clarify this. (Bit's, John K, Matt, Stevan.C, Ren? anybody?) It is just my observation, not an attempt to create a new theory.
I would like to try your idea in practical way.


Vtech
I have examined Bedini charged batteries during load test's and can safely say in my own test's, the above is true. The one thing i found about these batteries is that they do not hold their voltage when you draw a large amount of current but at C20 they seem to last forever, hence, not working very well on the front end of a Bedini SSG circuit. Look at the pulsed input current on a scope. Your DVM may show for example 150ma input but this is an average so each pulse may be 400ma. A 5AH battery will be 250mah at C20 so no good. It's a rough example. I think this is why Bedini says that we should never draw more than C20 from the charged batteries and this is why we can not use them on the front end like we think.
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:39 PM
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Lightbulb sequenced triggering at 120V

ZPF cart motor has sequenced coils and works perfect for me but the coils are only 65ft with 3 powerwires and one trigger wire per coil works great trigger is 4.7K ohms at 3.5 amps 120v output is 15 to 20 amps at 12v into 6 batteries
here is a link

CartMotor V5
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Old 05-07-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecknomancer View Post
ZPF cart motor has sequenced coils and works perfect for me but the coils are only 65ft with 3 powerwires and one trigger wire per coil works great trigger is 4.7K ohms at 3.5 amps 120v output is 15 to 20 amps at 12v into 6 batteries
here is a link

CartMotor V5
Nice setup!
Lots of work going into that
What kind of core does the coils have?

/Hob
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Old 05-07-2011, 01:57 PM
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Arrow

Quote:
Nice setup!
Lots of work going into that
What kind of core does the coils have?
coils are transformer plates with small peace of polycarbonate on the ends to smooth the wrap and hold the plates together then that is wrapped with tape and screwed to the ends



will post more later


good luck with your project
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Last edited by tecknomancer; 05-08-2011 at 11:35 AM. Reason: moved it to my own thread
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