The reason i posted is because i didn't see the plug working in any motor.

i could not find what is claimed, or the benefits of its uses, other than producing a stronger spark?

perhaps I am missing the point here, but i do understand the combustion engine and how it works.

because some said it did not work with MSD is why i posted, not to be a critic of your devise.

i saw your movie, and saw you say the implosion of the spark is like a back emf or something. is there some type magnetic component?

i would like to see not the circuit that is being sold but the claim of why i should use it over conventional ignitions.

If its not broke don't fix it. does it give horse power? thats what guys like me are interested in, but the fact remains it would be very little gain.

does it give 30 extra MPG? that would be worth something.

thanks

You didn't see it working in your motor? Please post pics and/or vids of your installation so we can all see your setup.

It is NOT a stronger spark - it is not even a "spark" at all. Benefits and claims? It is listed in about 40 years of government, SAE, etc... documents on "plasma jet ignition" systems. Leaner running for same power, reduced emissions, etc...

I understand the ICE as well but your comments still don't address the plasma itself. You keep saying "spark" or "stronger" spark, etc... that tells me you haven't researched anything on the subject.

You have misunderstood what I said about some saying MSD wouldn't work. I said some experts on the plasma ignition could not get the plasma effect work worth my method on an MSD, which I have succeeded 100% of the time. That is what I said.

I never said the plasma is an implosion that is like back emf or anything similar to that. But yes, there is a strong magnetic component to the plasma impulse.

The "why" of using the plasma again is spelled out in tons of literature over the decades. Bottom line, more power, more MPG, leaner mixtures no problem and reduced emissions. And if there is water added to the equation, it cracks that on contact.

The "fact remains there would be very little gain"? How do you know if you have never even tested it?

The only thing that can sabotage it is electronics like the o2 sensor, etc... there are other ecu chip enhancements that can get around the sabotage without altering sensors.

I am not going to go reading other patents on the subject.

I only asked what your claim was, in your words.

I am guessing it is untested as of yet? Posting numbers of gains, or fuel mileages has not been tested? I guess it is still in the works?

you simply have not made any claims, no real world testing?

I was interested in what could be claimed, and expected from using it.

To all the younger fellas building cars, MSD ignitions systems are designed to have the ability to adjust timings at WOT, and part throttle. Rev limiters and such that will allow for smooth power across the board, and prevent pre ignition, or detonation by advancing or retarding timing. The gain is in the range of 1 to 3 HP if you are lucky, but you also have options, and they are programmable.

For the novice Money should be spent on getting more fuel, and air into the system. Even A MSD system isn't going to make (much)of a difference at all.

I just wanted to see the numbers, because i have seen just about every devise on the market. All of them make real world claims.. None ever live up to them.

The split fire spark plug actually worked, it was years ago when I installed them into my car. slightly smoother idle, slightly better mpg. they cost about 3 bucks each.

Today i simply use copper plugs, and its just as good because i also have the MSD system, and a higher compression ratio, larger fuel injectors, fuel pump air flow meter. ETC..
I don't want to see any suckers pay hundreds of dollars for something, and get burned.

I hope you are able to work it out in the future what may be expected, and have testing in writing, and certified. good luck on your testing, and keep up the good work.. .

very good points.
I myself would also like to see at least one video showing the installation on a car, and even more important, real honest-to-God numbers showing MPG, power, CO, etc.

Dear Aaron,

I've discharged the extra vids and I've found very interesting the approach of the "coldstart ignitermod.pdf" of the Canadian National Renewable Energy Laboratory about using leaner moistures and retarded ignition degrees:

"Retarding the spark timing to well after piston top dead centre was highly
effective for reducing hydrocarbon emissions when used in combination with
stoichiometric or slightly lean mixtures. This approach could increase exhaust
temperatures by about 200°C over the usual values, which would be expected to cause
the catalytic converter to “light-off (attain high oxidation efficiency) earlier than
normal. The ability to use such a calibration strategy was limited with conventional
ignition as engine stability would degrade excessively."

They focused on cold start engine emissions, but it would have been a fantastic opportunity with the engine hooked up on the dyno to test the plasma ignition itself and provide some comparative torque-hp dyno charts.

However, the charts comparing high energy plasma discharge with stock inductive ignition are priceless: High energy in short time (plasma) against low energy discharge and long spark duration of stock inductive ignition. In fact CDI ignitions only outperform inductive ignitions when multiple dicharge are enanced. I prefer a longer burning time of an optimal inductive ignition than a standard CDI multiple discharge system. But multiple discharge using Plasma is other thing...

Also they have tested firing after TDC: "Despite the control loop stability problems experienced while using plasma jet ignition, it was apparent that the engine was not operating at or near its misfiring or stalling limit with 0"
spark advance. Additional circuitry was added to the apparatus to delay the trigger pulse fiom the GM coil drivers that provided the spark timing signal for the plasma jet system. With this setup, spark-timing values as late as 30" after top dead centre (ATDC) could be explored. We have called the region of spark timing settings after TDC (i.e., during the expansion stroke while
the piston is descending) "extreme spark retard."

"The use of extreme spark retard proved to be a highly effective strategy for reducing hydrocarbon
emissions."

But they don't say nothing about torque generated by doing this.

"In summary, at equal lambda and spark-timing settings, results using plasma jet ignition
differed from those with inductive ignition in the following ways:
Higher exhaust unburned hydrocarbon concentrations and mass flow rates
Lower indicated specific fuel consumption
Lower coefficient of variation of indicated mean effective pressure
Lower exhaust temperatures."

But again nothing about engine output.

Please Aaron, release dyno tests as soon as possible!!!
Regards
Athal

Dear Aaron,

this guys have tested a plasma ignition in the dyno:

Plasma Ignition Dyno Testing - YouTube

But something in the vid makes me think that they dont have done a good ignition cable isolation work. Also they are not using modified "JET" sparkplugs.

But the gain they claim to have obtained I supose that is over a CDI Ignition (what they call "standard ignition" and not over the inductive stock ignition. So I think that gains over the inductive ignition would be more serious.

Also they have left everything untouched but the Ignition: they have not experienced with different (retarded) ignition curves, and moistures (leaner).

Serious dyno test with the right Minimum Advance for Best Torque and moisture have not already been done (or at least released) to public domain.

Best Regards,
Athal

@Mire,

It is obvious from many posts in this thread that different people go in different directions and have their own ideas about what they want plasma for. I make no specific claims because I CANNOT control what you do with it or how you do it. I cannot control your level of skill in putting this together, I cannot control your foot on the gas pedal when it is installed, etc... I provide the info on how to do it and the rest is up to you.

It has been tested in multiple applications from lawn mowers to generators to jet engines to cars. I know what it does but my results are irrelevant and you can want a dyno test but that doesn't mean anything to you in reality because there is no guarantee you're going to do the same level of quality installation, etc...

@Athal,

One of my partners was behind hat dyno test - that is one of many. And you have to understand the results are without any significant modifications. The fuel ratio is unchanged, no sensor mods, no water/hho injection, etc... so having ANY increase whatsoever proves that conventional ignition science and it's limitations are bogus. Obviously, with an increase, more energy is released from the same amount of fuel and that alone is "supposed" to be impossible.

@All, I have plenty of pictures and testimonials from customers who bought Ignition Secrets - I may post just a couple to show the installation but I have no desire to post any results, etc... because like I said, I have no control over how people will apply this information and with so many variables to consider in so many different engine types and ignition types, etc... posting claims are ridiculous.

The only thing I'm going to say the plasma will do is to allow more power from a leaner burn, get more out of water or hho supplementation, reduce emissions, increase power and increase mileage. How much of an increase or decrease in those? Obviously there is going to be a wide range of results for everyone so posting anything specific means absolutely nothing.

You can look at Greg's build in this forum using another variation of the plasma - another way to produce it but is the same exact plasma, and in an old VW bug with a 1300cc engine, he got 43% increase in gas mileage, which happened to also be 43mpg! He leaned out his gas jets and added a little steam to the intake.

Dear Aaron,

Yes of course, as you know I've made some tests and I'm sure about the potential of this plasma tecnology. I'm not questioning plasma ignition potential. I know also that in this stage most of the plasma exper¡ences are being done with prototipes. But this is is also interesting: if guys with different car setups and aproaches to plasma ignition have similar resoults, may be we can stablish general guidelines in order to make easy more people using this technology and save fuel and emissions in a near optimal way.

As my car has full control capability (megasquirt) on moisture (lambda) and advance timing, I will start tests, with a multispark CDI prototype with allows mods in an easy way:

http://www.molla.org/DIY-CDI/SC-DIY-...icle-hires.pdf

But still no easy access to dyno tests.

Regards,
Athal

Dear Aaron,

if you are uncertain about others work and setups, and you prefer not to post other's results, I'll think you're very serious and a prudent person.

But also there's no reason to not posting YOUR results:

If you are capable to write a book with a resume about years of dicussions posted in this forum (wich I have bought and finded very interesting), this also means that you are plenty of confidence about YOUR plasma tecnology knowing, YOUR setups and YOUR prototypes. Writing this compilation performs you as an opnion leader and a relevant reference for most of the people in this forum.

May be I'm also not interested in others testimonials, but I found very relevant, knowing about YOUR results Aaron.

Again please Aaron, release YOUR dyno tests and conclusions as soon as possible: we need just basic data as camshaft duration, compression, 2 or 4 valves, moisture (air-fuel ratio and other adds like water mist or vapour) and advance used, and charts comparing to the stock setup. I think your e-book won't be complete until some dyno tests in several setups and car examples will be released by you.

Regards,
Athal

Athal,

The book/video package was never offered by making claims (hence the fact that claims are absent on the page) - the package is to show people how to make the plasma ignition - that's it. People get in trouble making claims that they can't guarantee for other people. Look at all those bozo products out there claiming this and that for gas mileage, etc... and most people can't even come close to getting those results. I prefer to underpromise and overdeliver.

Go look at gmeast's setup in this forum - he shows everything he did. It is a different circuit arrangement, but the plasma is identical. He does really good work and got 43% increase in MPG which was also 43mpg in an old bug.

This is a test on a lawnmower Peter and I did a while back - obviously the capacitor is bigger than what is in a CDI or MSD but we were able to turn the gas jet ALL THE WAY IN so that the only fuel that can come in is from the idle jet - Water Sparkplug Test on Lawnmower - YouTube with that being turned all the way in, we could still get FULL power. Literally, it is running on fumes at full power. We also adjusted the timing.

My jet has the same setup shown in my package with the streetfire module: How to Build a Jet Engine - YouTube Normally in a jet engine you turn on the ignitor long enough to get the flame tube up to temp, then you can shut it off because the fuel will burn as soon as it touches the hot flame tube. However, there are other mods that I'm not going into but I leave the plasma ignition running non-stop even after the flame tube is up to temp because I get more benefit. In the beginning, this jet required propane at about 8 psi for a certain fuel nozzle to even idle. With the plasma on and a few other mods, the needle is sitting at 0 psi in order to keep it idling. The gauge is too big to see it accurately at that level. I need a 1psi range gauge to see what fraction of 1 psi it is operating at. Obviously it isn't 0 psi but somewhere between 0.1 psi and 1.0 psi. I also need a more precise metering valve at that same level in order to fine tune. In any case, if it is 0.9 psi for example, I have been able to reduce the fuel consumption almost 90% - this is no small feat. This already blows away every result any diy jet engine builder has ever shown anywhere!

For automobiles, I rely on Arvind's testing since he has dyno resources, etc... it works on any engine, any compression ratio, etc... the only thing that may need modifying is timing, fuel ratio and possible sensor or ecu chip mods. But even on some testing, timing didn't even need changing. Perhaps timing can be delayed to get more benefit but isn't required.

But I still believe MY results don't mean anything to anyone. There are plenty of free reports you can find online by the govt showing how it improves cold starts on E85 gas, reduces emissions, etc... all the reports on how it extends the lean burn limit - obviously meaning it really gets more btu's out of less fuel, etc...

hi Aaron.Im from Turkey.Im a electronics engineering student.Im wondering about electronics components.I cant find some components in my country.will i need expensive or cannot finding components when triying your method?
I really want order your book.

Then why not just pay Aaron for his research efforts to see what he's offering? If you can't even do your own research, then why are you here asking for testing and numbers? That's not what Aaron is selling. He's just selling his own research into plasma ignition.

I'm pretty sure his claim was plasma ignition.

Do some quick googling and searching of youtube. The info is out there. Heck go search for aqua pulser. They sell a whole kit and have dyno numbers if you want! Woah so difficult!

Who are you anyways? Did you not see his video's demonstrating his tests? Did he claim to install it into his car yet? Maybe he's busy. On the other hand, you can easily find people who have installed plasma ignition and seen some decent gains from it.

Aaron was very specific with what you can expect with plasma ignition. I don't see how there could be any confusion. He said that you could run leaner air fuel ratio's which mean better fuel economy and less emissions. And I got all that just by reading! Isn't that fantastic?!

MSD is good to about 3k rpm and then it stops working. It helps provide good low end torque where the timing isn't as advanced because the fuel takes a while to burn with such a pathetic spark. The plasma ignition system will (in theory) ignite the mixture rapidly and therefore timing must be altered to realize the full potential and gains. This is why you see gains, but not spectacular ones, unless they are messing with timing. Even cam timing should be modified...

Yes, we should all just do what everyone's been doing for the past 100 years. We're all stuck with the options of a big v8 gas guzzler if we want extra power. Or wait, how about no. How about we challenge the system? I'm pretty sure it's just the indoctrinated people like you who cry and whine.

So there you go. Spark plugs do make a difference.

Testing in writing and certified for what purpose? Do your own leg work for you? Provide you a nice neat packaged product that you go to a store and buy that will give you at least 10% more efficiency? Are you a consumer *****? Do you realize how much time and money this would cost?

As far as I'm concerned you are not sincere and you should go back to whatever it is that you do and forget plasma ignition. As for the hundreds of dollars; if you can't afford it, then why not build your own? I bought two high output ignition coils (the 50kv ones from procomp) and they are very powerful. Even without the diode on CDI it gives a bright spark. I'm really busy with other things at the moment, but I intend on sharing my results with this forum. My goal is to actually remove the throttle plate and use actual fuel to meter engine speed just like a diesel. If this can be accomplished, then I fart on your grave.

The diodes are inexpensive and can be ordered from a lot of different countries.

CDI's or MSD's can also be ordered from many distributors.

All the details are in Ignition Secrets.

Dear Aaron,

1). What is the minimum, maximum and optimum value of LV (may be obsolute value or in relative to HV)?

2). For DIS due to the nature of current flow, is it right to have just one string of diodes per each coil pack (of two plugs)?

3). For DIS, what should be the strength of spark/plasma distribution between these two plugs (of the same coil pack)?

4). Regarding the way oxygen sensor reads lean/rich air/fuel ratio explained in your book under Bonus/EFIE topic, I think you should elaborate more whether it is based on wideband or narrow band type because the reading seems to be opposite in my opinion.

Regards.

Amin,

Please email me the cap questions.

You have to simply get an EFIE for your particular car. There are many manufacturers these days for both narrow and wide and they can help you out. I'm only pointing out that the EFIE can help you get more of the benefit that can be sabotaged by the o2 sensor.

How to email to you? I've got 2 graphs to be presented.

I would like to share something that some of you may already know, but whereas I believe most simply do not.

To understand how this form of ignition can be extremely efficient, we must look at how the current ignition system in your car works.

The computer controls the amount of fuel going into the engine by the amount of air going into the engine as well as air temperature and sometimes even fuel temperature. Your foot is only connected to the butterfly valve in the throttle body (or your foot isn't even connected for those with drive by wire). This is to ensure that the optimal air/fuel ratio is maintained to avoid burning up your engine. I always pondered why it would burn up the engine until I started to realize how the combustion process works in the 'conventional' engines. It is actually a very slow process (in terms of burn rate) when using 'conventional' methods. I say that because it is done on purpose to limit the efficiency and keep the amount of fuel being burned quite high. As the RPM's increase, the ignition must be advanced to keep the fuel burning inside the cylinder. If it is retarded it can run stronger but at the cost of burning the exhaust valves where their thin shaft is exposed.

Before this, I was a complete diesel geek. I loved the efficiency and the torque. It was very difficult to stall the engine out as compared to a gasoline engine. After learning about the plasma ignition and how it can rapidly ignite and burn the fuel, I believe this is the key to efficiency. Even in a diesel the injection must be advanced as the rpm's rise. With the plasma ignition I strongly believe that the timing could stay relatively the same even for high rpm.

One test I did was to remove the throttle body from an engine and let it breathe wide open. The sensor was still attached so the computer believed that the throttle body was shut and there wasn't much air going into the engine. To my amazement, the RPM's rose rapidly. I ran it for about 5-10 seconds then shut it off to avoid any damage.

What everyone should attempt with Aaron's ignition system, is to completely dump the throttle body or simply remove the butterfly valve (but removing it would increase airflow...) The engine speed would then be throttled by fuel injection quantity. This is the tricky part. It would require PWM for each injector and a pulse pickup for the crank position sensor to determine when to inject. I bet one of those robotic toy control boards with multiple PWM outputs could do it. Then just program it and run. There should be no reason that using this method that a vehicle couldn't get 100mpg.

I hope there are some experimenters willing to try this out. My time is just too limited to do further testing right now. At least try out the no throttle body. It's crazy! But DO NOT let the engine run for more than 10 seconds or you could wreck the engine! Unless you have an engine you don't care about...

Hi Amin,

Any emails you get from me (newsletters or emails after purchasing Ignition Secrets) - just hit reply to those and it will come to me.

Plasma Spark Plug Ignition sounds like a Great Idea-----

But, how do you keep the Spark Plug Tips from melting on the first shot?

You need to do some research before you make comments like that.

This is like walking into the middle of someone's conversation without having the decency to even know what is going on.

I know im quite late about this but some things i did were Checked MAF, Throttle sensor, Throttle sensor circuit and such auto parts. On the other hand I also replaced ignition Wires, rotor button, and distributor cap.Fortunately it started okay for two days but this morning would not start had no spark. Any recommendations?

Hi Chris,

Are you bypassing the distributor with diodes directly to boots of spark plug cables?

If using the street fire module, it works best with an ignition coil with a negative hv output so you have to invert the diodes.

If there is no spark, that can happen if the diodes are shorted.

I recently signed up for this energy forum. I skimmed thru some of the responses with talk about this plasma ignition. I have done some investigating the past few months. Trying to get familiar with technical side of operation. I am very interested in this concept an am not afraid to try. Time is my lacking asset. Which is everyones limited resource. Are there any kits for sale that are proven to be reliable? If so how do I purchase the kit?

If that is not an option then in this book IGNITION SECRETS has anybody been successful and is it practical? Meaning it is installed in there vehicle and there are no issues. If a kit is not available to the public for purchase is it manageable for someone who has intermediate electrical and mechanical aptitude skills to build and trial?

So before I purchase this book I would appreciate someone to confirm that they bought the book and verify that it goes thru precise details on how to convert your ignition system to create a plasma spark. Between my wife and I own a 1999 Taurus. 2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara, and a 2011 Fusion.

Thanks for your time and input.

Dan Schneekloth

At Plasma Jet Ignition | Performance Ignition Modules | Plasma Ignition you can get kits. There are quite a few variables to consider. I do not have buy buttons on that site because there is a certain amount that needs to be known that I don't have time for. If you give me every detail possible on your car - the ignition system, type, etc... I can find out a price and the right system if it is even practical for your car. I could be taking orders all day long every day for these systems, but i don't want people to spend their money on them unless it is a for sure thing that it can be applied appropriately to their car.

Yes, at the conference this weekend, I learned that more people than I thought have been experimenting with this and getting results for different applications. As far as the function goes, it does exactly what I said it does.

One person, I'll just call DL, heck of a nice guy that I met at least 2 times now, maybe 3, put it on his friend's car and got a mileage gain. It wasn't phenomenal but there was a gain. From the sounds of it, the computer wouldn't let it be consistent.

He explained it to several of us. Anyway, I'd love to see pics and/or video eventually. Was installed a month ago.

Anyway, I have heard from some people by email, so yes, people are getting results. I never claimed what results would be on Ignition Secrets by Aaron Murakami | Plasma Ignition if you read the website, I just say that my package will show you how to make the plasma and that is for sure.

Email me your car details if you can.

Thanks!

Hi Dan,

For those who didn't make it this year here are some videos I took at the 2012 Energy Conference, about 100 videos altogether under Playlist Titled "Radiant Energy by Nikola Tesla and John Bedini"

This might wet your whistle a little! Aaron Murakami brought a great prototype demo unit to the conference and Peter Lindemann displayed it for us. Check out these videos.

Plasma Spark Mod by Aaron Murakami (1 of 3) - YouTube

Plasma Spark Mod by Aaron Murakami (2 of 3) - YouTube

Plasma Spark Mod by Aaron Murakami (3 of 3) - YouTube

Great Conference, do what you can to make it next year guys!
Mike

Hi Aaron.

What about Waste Spark Ignition?

My vehicle has Waste spark and I want to know if I can keep it and use your method.

thank you.

I read your book and it doesn't mention waste spark ignitions.... from what I gathered it looks like your ignition needs zero resistance and waste spark I believe travels through the engine bock on each cycle...actually twice each cycle.

I know the resistance on firing cylinder is higher than the resistance on the exhaust cylinder firing. This resistance attracts the greater spark. Also from what I gather one cylinder of the pair always fires reverse through the plug.

Im not confident on how this affects your method and haven't been able to find anything...yet... about CDI and waste spark to even begin.

Waste Spark is common in Fords.

If I missed it please direct me to that information....I didn't see it addressed in the book .

edit: I have no idea if Waste Spark is something that was worth mentioning.

anybody please chim in and direct me to any CDI waste spark info...or murakami waste spark info.


thank you again.

Hello,

I am putting the timing cct from Peter's rep together.

For the caps it specs 1x 4.7uf 35v polarized cap and I am using a 4.7uf 50v bi-polar cap. And for the three 1uf caps i'm using 1uf 50v bi-polar.

Does make a difference with the voltage on the 4.7uf cap being higher and the 1uf cap not being spec'd as a polarized.

Thanks in advance for the help

Hi Ignition development colleagues.
I am Hungarian. Speak English poorly.
Results of my project.
Watch video:Plasma Spark 1 - YouTube

Thank you for your attention.

Regards nyemi

Can you explain what you mean by sabotaged?