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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #1  
Old 02-11-2011, 11:31 PM
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Turion Turion is online now
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Bessler Wheel- Mechanical Advantage

I have been reviewing everything I can find out there on the Bessler Wheel, and thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. I have built lots of models of this, and have listened carefully to the experts, like Peter Lindemann. (Haven't given up on the ideas you and I talked about either, Peter, just working on THIS one also)

I have no doubt that this is NOT the way that Bessler did it, but if he can do it, why can't we? There is, as any engineer can tell you, usually more than one way to solve a problem, if it can indeed be solved. Some designs are just more efficient than others.

Anyway, my idea is posted on You tube and the link is included below. The hinged pieces I didn't have machined or anything like that. I discovered that cheap plastic wheels you can get at Lowes or Home Depot are constructed with exactly (almost perfectly) the angle I wanted. I just cut the bolt off that goes through the wheel, took the wheel out and put a bolt back through two of them together. The stub that usually goes up inside the leg of the chair is in the plastic tube, and a threaded rod comes out the other side of the plastic tube. I used some magnets I had lying around that had holes in the center of them for weights, but washers would have served as well. I am headed to Lowes to see if small copper pipe or pipe couplers for copper pipe would work in place of the plastic tube I had lying around so that the parts I am using are easier for people to find.

I am experimenting with the weights I am using right now. I believe the greater the weight on the short arm, the more successful my rotation will be, because this is the only weight that takes the wheel out of balance. While the weight on the long arm falling does impact and drive the wheel. it may be the short armed weight that makes all the difference as to the success of the design. Only time will tell.

I don't know how many of these I can get around the outside of a wheel. Probably only six instead of the eight that Bessler is believed to have used. BUT, my wheel has two sides, which means I can also have six more on the back side of the wheel. They would of course be out of phase with those on the front.

Anyway, I hope this is enough food for thought that someone out there with a keen mind gets really hungry. I, on the other hand, will keep plodding away and keep you posted on my progress.

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel
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Last edited by Turion; 02-12-2011 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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Hi
Kcarring brought a Link to Mikhail Dmitriyev and his Wheel.
Maybe you can find something usefull at it.
YouTube - Simulation des Gravitationsrades nach Mikhail Dmitriyev
Directory:Mikhail Dmitriev Gravity Wheel - PESWiki
YouTube - Gravitational engine 4
Gravitational engine

After reviewing them, he use little Motors
to move the Levers out of the gravitiy line.
So i am not sure if it is selfsubstaining.
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Last edited by Joit; 02-12-2011 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:40 AM
bugler bugler is offline
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I think it is important to learn the basic skills to make a video cause most videos are very poor. This one is a clear case.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:38 PM
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Hmmm, I thought it was more important to share, no matter what the quality, just to get it out there, but I won't make that mistake again. I have taken the video down so it won't offend anyone else.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugler View Post
I think it is important to learn the basic skills to make a video cause most videos are very poor. This one is a clear case.
i didn't know this was a forum for querying someone's video skills.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Hmmm, I thought it was more important to share, no matter what the quality, just to get it out there, but I won't make that mistake again. I have taken the video down so it won't offend anyone else.
please feel free to post whatever you'd like to share at Heretical Builders - Powered by vBulletin
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:07 AM
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Hi Turion, I think you have been here long enough to know that most of us here try to help each other and learn from each other. But with any large group there are always those that try to belittle what others are trying to do. As far as the video I enjoyed it and think you might be onto something. Only more experimenting will show if it is possible to make the wheel work like that. The video was much better done than a lot I have seen on youtube. At least yours was well lighted and in focus. If you haven't been offended too badly please repost it somewhere as I would like to look at it again.

later, Carroll
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Old 02-13-2011, 02:25 AM
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I just killed the link. The video is still on my channel with all my other videos at
YouTube - 11Turion's Channel
I am usually not so thin skinned. Guess being up all night cuz my dogs got into it with a skunk made me a little irritable. Irritated, tired, smelly and $300 in vet bills poorer. I think of all the magnets and wire I could have gotten for that money. but family comes first, even when the family has four legs and fur.

As for this design. I see the potential in it, and haven't scratched the surface of all the possible adjustments. Two different weights, lengths of arms, position of fulcrum. angle of interaction between the weights. Lots of things to play with. It does provide two driving forces and definitely puts the wheel out of balance on one side. I hope someone other than me sees enough value in it to duplicate and play with also. On Monday I will go to Lowes and get the specific part numbers for the pieces I used to put it together for those interested.
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:23 AM
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Good effort

It does look like what you are doing has possibilities. The video was clear with
good resolution, better than a lot of others. Keep up the good work.

FRC
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Hi Turion,
Not sure if bugler posted about your Vid,
but he said, thats it is a clear case, at the other way he did not say, that your Vid is bad.
For me, i thought, you got the right lever, and kcarring posted to link for a way to arrange them.
Your Vid is even good too, i can see all what i want to see.
Its nice and i like the Way of your Work.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:27 AM
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Added a second set of weights, and am waiting for parts before I add a third. It gives me time to play around with different weights and arm lengths.

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:07 AM
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Turion,

Just a quick note letting you know that I have registered with this forum. My profile is in progress.

Ralph Lortie
CEO Arrache
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
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Gents,
At different times I have posted ideas and videos here. Usually they are of a build that is under construction. I posted a while back some of my experiments with the 3rd dimension on my five foot wheel, which led me to some serious speculation about the need for a drum type wheel and what could be accomplished with a hollow wheel that had NO axle running through it to get in the way. Here is what I have come up with.
Bessler Wheel 3rd Dimension - YouTube

I am in the process of building a test model right now which will give me the data I need to prove or disprove my theory, but I have been successful enough with models on a flat wheel to understand that moving weights in the third dimension can make a significant difference. In the video I discuss raising the weight after it has traveled from the 12:00 to the 6:00 position, which can be done easily through leverage. BUT it is much easier to shift the weight to center when it is in the 3:00 position, since it takes hardly ANY weight at all to shift a 10 pound weight at that moment, which you will understand after watching the video. However, you only get the benefit of overbalance from 12:00 to 3:00, which may be significant, and is reason for lots of research. It is my sincere hope that this leads to some exploration in new directions for some of us. As you can see, it is an incredibly SIMPLE design.

EDIT: I do need to point out that in the tests I have been running my lever arms have NOT been the same length. You don't get the benefit of leverage with arms the same length!! Don't want to forget to mention that!!
Dave
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:44 AM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Very Interesting!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Gents,
At different times I have posted ideas and videos here. Usually they are of a build that is under construction. I posted a while back some of my experiments with the 3rd dimension on my five foot wheel, which led me to some serious speculation about the need for a drum type wheel and what could be accomplished with a hollow wheel that had NO axle running through it to get in the way. Here is what I have come up with.
Bessler Wheel 3rd Dimension - YouTube

I am in the process of building a test model right now which will give me the data I need to prove or disprove my theory, but I have been successful enough with models on a flat wheel to understand that moving weights in the third dimension can make a significant difference. In the video I discuss raising the weight after it has traveled from the 12:00 to the 6:00 position, which can be done easily through leverage. BUT it is much easier to shift the weight to center when it is in the 3:00 position, since it takes hardly ANY weight at all to shift a 10 pound weight at that moment, which you will understand after watching the video. However, you only get the benefit of overbalance from 12:00 to 3:00, which may be significant, and is reason for lots of research. It is my sincere hope that this leads to some exploration in new directions for some of us. As you can see, it is an incredibly SIMPLE design.

EDIT: I do need to point out that in the tests I have been running my lever arms have NOT been the same length. You don't get the benefit of leverage with arms the same length!! Don't want to forget to mention that!!
Dave
Dave,

This is excellent work. Your idea of moving the weights in this way is something I have not seen proposed by anyone before. It definitely opens up new possibilities. Thanks for sharing, and good luck with your model.

Peter
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Old 03-03-2018, 05:18 AM
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Final Update

It's been a number of years since I have posted on this topic, and I have a couple FINAL things to share.

First, I have seen that it is possible for two falling weight to move two LARGER weights using leverage. As one weight falls from out at the rim to center, a larger weight is pushed out to the rim on the right. As a second weight falls from center to the bottom, a second larger weight is pulled in to center on the left side. This dual action overbalances the wheel on one side. Basement window hinges can be used to gain the leverage needed. Attached

A second method of doing something similar is for there to be spiral shafts that cause a falling weights to rotate as they slides down the shafts. The falling weights each have an arm that project out with a weight on the ends of it. When the rotation and rate of fall is timed properly to the rotation of the wheel, these weights on the arms stick out on the right, overbalancing the wheel in that direction. When the weight projects toward the front or back, there is no impact in ANY direction. This is using gravity to rotate the falling weight, and the third dimension to control the effect it has on the wheel. Crappy drawings attached
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2018-03-02 at 6.01.02 PM.png (60.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png Screen Shot 2018-03-02 at 6.00.19 PM.png (87.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Idea.jpg (41.3 KB, 25 views)
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