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  #1471 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 09:16 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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@Bodkins - Yours is a name i've read of, but didn't know you were a Yorkshireman. Thought you were USA based.
I think what you've got there are stressed dielectrics with a capacitive accumulation.
In Tesla's boat Patent from 1898 ( Patent US613809 - TESLA - Google Patents ), he talks of various methods to effect changes in receiving equipment. The use of insulated plates features.
Also, radiant energy collectors up in attics can make use of similarly isolated plates. By forming them as you did, it's like a capacitor, with the clingfilm acting as the dielectric...the sparking etc going off when you returned 8hrs later could, in my opinion, have been those spheres striking a harmonic resonant condition. Bouncing energy back and forth, as a slowly building capacitive but forceful coupling.

After all those egg-headed words i'm off for a coffee, much prefer your description method

Oh, Lidmotor - do you know of the best place to buy Peltier's ?
I have an idea for those as a room cooling idea. The Peltier sits on a windowsill and powers a small fan, that blows the cold from a tray of ice into the room. The hotter the day outside, the more efficient the Peltier.
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  #1472 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2012, 11:31 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Jonny's circuit powered by Peltier modules

@Jonny, Slider, & All

I dug around in my parts bin and found a coulple of Peltier modules that will run the low voltage led oscillator. After palying with them awhile I decided to just put the MOT in the freezer for awhile and use the differential between that and room temperature to make it work. The two modules in series just sitting on top of the cold transformer worked so I made a video of it. I got the Peltier modules on Ebay a looooooong time ago. I don't remember much about them. The two of them in series was needed to get enough voltage with the temp difference I was using.

LED light using heat as energy source - YouTube

Lidmotor
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  #1473 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2012, 09:24 AM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Hi Lidmotor.Really interesting experiment with the peltier modules.That Slider fellow is full of good ideas Temperature differentials are all around us so definatly an under exploited energy resource which could be used night and day.I like it .
If you painted one side black,would that work better in sunlight if the other side was cool?
You can also light another Led,placed across the primary coil so doubling your light output.
I wonder if the light could be amplified using the plastic bottle filled with water and a bit of bleach to stop algae growth that totoalas has shown?
I will try and get a peltier as there seems to be a lot of interesting ways they can be used and it will be fun trying to find new ones.
Thanks for spending experiment time on this.Jonny.

Last edited by jonnydavro : 07-09-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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  #1474 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2012, 11:45 AM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
Hi Lidmotor.Really interesting experiment with the peltier modules.That Slider fellow is full of good ideas Temperature differentials are all around us so definatly an under exploited energy resource which could be used night and day.I like it .
In exUSSR schools on basic physics there was simple experiment how to get voltage from heat too: solder two iron bolts together and heat up the junction. It will produce small electricity as well. Making heat battery like that could achieve constant electricity when used with gas/coal heater...
Thermoelectric effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by T-1000 : 07-09-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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  #1475 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:16 PM
Slider2732 Slider2732 is offline
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Yes indeed T-1000 and the copper experiments of Nyle Steiner:
Copper Oxide Thermoelectric Generator Can Light An LED

Combine with Jonny's circuit/a ringer circuit derivative and multiple circuits using the same source of heat might well lead to mains lightbulb experiments.
At least, that was the illuminating thought I just had
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  #1476 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2012, 10:47 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Originally Posted by Slider2732 View Post
Yes indeed T-1000 and the copper experiments of Nyle Steiner:
Copper Oxide Thermoelectric Generator Can Light An LED

Combine with Jonny's circuit/a ringer circuit derivative and multiple circuits using the same source of heat might well lead to mains lightbulb experiments.
At least, that was the illuminating thought I just had
Again great ideas from great thinkers

I will try this method with magnifying glass or fresnel lens from tv and see where it goes

totoalas
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  #1477 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2012, 07:26 AM
wings wings is offline
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great ideas from the past

neazoi
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  #1479 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2012, 06:32 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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What is old --is new again

Thanks Wings !
That was really interesting info on thermoelectric generators--old and new.
The new ones that run off a simple camp stove and put out 5 watts are great. I can do alot with that 5 watts using some of the new circuits. The only problem is that the generators work by burning something and I am trying to get away from that. Reality is that FIRE is with us for good it seems so we might as well use the waste heat for something useful.

Lidmotor
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  #1480 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Peanutbutter29 Peanutbutter29 is offline
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sorry to bug

Thought I should try and offer a bit of tips here with TE's. I've used these pretty extensively in past projects. A auto frozen fish feeder (10 degree chamber in 80 degree room) and a chocolate tempering unit (variable hot / cold); are probably where I learned most. Wings links covers history well as it was understood for a long while before practical (early 80's for TEM).
Advancing is coming along decent with these as 100w for a TEC was max during the late 90's when I did most work. Now you can get modules in the 200w or more range. I used 100w for the fish feeder.
TEG's (designed for power out rather than in) didn't really evolve until more recently (again practically). I believe somewhere on PopSci is an article about Toyota using them in the next Hybrid exhaust.

When I first messed with these, there were only a handful of companies. Now there are many, but I found a couple still around; Ferrotec (also good FF place), Tellurex and INB thermoelectric.
Anyhoo; most companies are now offering TEG's along with TEC. Be sure you use a G for a G and not a C for a G!!!!

Tellurex has a few and I dealt with them 15 years ago, so they are reputable. Tellurex - Power generation products

INB used to have the highest power and affordable TEC's.

Last, the key with all TEM's (G or C) is delta across 4 temperature perspectives. It is good to know thermal conductivity (also good to know with LED's for heatsinks), as this is a major player in design.
Most TEM's are designed or will max around 50C delta across junctions. In either case G or C, this can be difficult to maintain. The TEG's use high temperature components as that is technically easier to maintain a delta. With cooling this delta is directly related to Hot / Cold side temps at a given power; however with G's this delta will determine net power out and should be maximized. It is hard to get a 50C delta with normal ambient environments as well.
In general, active work will have to be done to maintain this. An easy test would be to have a small burner (as most these power units use) and measure this temperature. Then place a heatsink or large thermally conductive block on top. Measure this temp and monitor. This "block" temperature will eventually equalize relative to the thermal conductivity with the ambient air. The equalized temperature here would be your "maximum active delta"; adding a module would reduce this delta some as you now add more thermal resistance. If you can get a proper block (active or passive) that will maintain a good delta; then your ready for TEG and power.

I suppose also it's important to note that all of these are still considered heat pumps; in that they remove heat. Although we use these for power or cooling; that is ultimately what is going on. This limits, to some degree, application; as such removing "waste heat" is, at this point, the most utilized area.
Industry use these currently where they already pump waste water and exhaust heat. The hybrid cars are adding since there is exhaust heat and high airflow for cooling.

@Lidmotor, I suppose after the above and wanting to get away from fire; there is a thought. It may be possible to use a few focusing mirrors (optimally on trackers), to focus light on to TEG's for the hot side. The cold side could be placed with large cooling block (heatsink) in a stream, river or other natural water source. This should be enough to get a given TEG to decent power. Not sure what the available wattages are now for these; I believe 50w was max not too long ago.

Thanks
PB

*(anyone know where to find a 8x8x6 project box? may have to mfg. one, ugh)
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  #1481 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 05:58 AM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Thermoelectric generators (TEGs)

@PB
Thanks for all the info on TEGs. I agree with you that maintaining the BIG temperature differential to make good power is the hard part. That is the main reason that I haven't done much with the idea over the years. Small 10 to 20 degree delta situations don't do much.

----Lidmotor
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  #1482 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:51 AM
wings wings is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lidmotor View Post
@PB
Thanks for all the info on TEGs. I agree with you that maintaining the BIG temperature differential to make good power is the hard part. That is the main reason that I haven't done much with the idea over the years. Small 10 to 20 degree delta situations don't do much.

----Lidmotor
Seiko :
"Bi2Te3 thermopiles (most efficient at temperatures of 0 to 100 degrees Celsius) deposited onto thin film, it can generate 10 ľA at 3 V (6 V open circuit) with only 5 degrees Celsius of temperature difference"

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~thad/p/jou...lectronics.pdf
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  #1483 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2012, 05:23 AM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Hot rock powered LED light

@ Jonny & All

I got the Reverse Joule Thief to run using a small transformer. Heat from a hot rock supplied the energy to Peltier modules for power. This circuit that uses very low voltage but a little higher amperage is very interesting.

Hot rock powered LED light - YouTube

Lidmotor
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  #1484 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:53 AM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Hi Lid.Great idea to use the small audio transformer.Its good to see it will work on such a small transforme r.
Thanks for posting the waveform too.Is it the same shape for both the small coreless transformer and the MOT?
Your use of hot rocks on the peltier is innovative thinking and a great use of one of natures natural occuring capasitors .
I have just recieved 2 peltier module's and it seems to be made from a ceramic type material.I think if we painted one side black then it may work as a type of solar cell but the sun just does not shine here in England so hard to test out.Cheers.Jonny.
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  #1485 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2012, 05:24 PM
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Lidmotor Lidmotor is offline
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Heat differential powered devices

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
Hi Lid.Great idea to use the small audio transformer.Its good to see it will work on such a small transforme r.
Thanks for posting the waveform too.Is it the same shape for both the small coreless transformer and the MOT?
Your use of hot rocks on the peltier is innovative thinking and a great use of one of natures natural occuring capasitors .
I have just recieved 2 peltier module's and it seems to be made from a ceramic type material.I think if we painted one side black then it may work as a type of solar cell but the sun just does not shine here in England so hard to test out.Cheers.Jonny.
Jonny I have been working with my Peltier TEC modules and trying different heat differentials to see what works best. Ice cold vs room temp works pretty good for the TECs that I have. I can't find inexpensive TEGs yet. Today I got a simple pulse motor to run using the heat coming off my laptop computer cooling fan vs room temp. You need a 20 to 30 degree difference to get anything useful. If you have the common white TECs like I have you really have to be careful that you don't overheat them to make power or you will ruin them. The TEC modules really were not designed to be used as generators but mine seem to work OK. I have kept the temps between the freezing and boiling point of water. What I like is the amperage that comes out of these things. That is what we were missing with the homemade batteries.

Here are my TECs powering a simple pulse motor using just computer cooling fan heat vs room temp. It would run the Reverse Joule Thief but just barely. You really need a 30 degree shift to get the circuit to make light. This here is about a 20 degree difference (95 vs 75).

Computer heat powering a simple pulse motor - YouTube

Lidmotor

Last edited by Lidmotor : 07-14-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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  #1486 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 04:39 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Heat pump OU.

Physicists have known for centuries that heat pumps are 3 or 4 times over unity. Lower the temperature between a very cold outside and contained zone, below the temperature of the outside, and heat flows in. We accrue BTU's in the container for the cooling cost of the transfer layer! After the rising temperature differential begins to help power the transfer layer refrigeration by Peltier Module, Voila, COP 4 as if by magic.

@Lidmotor,
Short that output back to the heatsink, and we'll beat China to Mars!

Last edited by Allen Burgess : 07-15-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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  #1487 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:25 PM
Allen Burgess Allen Burgess is offline
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Heat pump OU Joule Ringer Reactor.

Build a Box of Peltier Modules around a copper tube coil filled with freon and connected to a pancake compressor. Cover the Peltier Box with Photovoltaic cells. Place the box in a Joule Ringer Lux Box. Connect the combined D.C. output from the Peltier modules and solar cells to a battery, and run the 120 A.C. bulbs and A.C. refrigerant compressor with one of our inverter circuits.

A Peltier LUX Box of Joule Ringer LED's in the snow would earn even more money.

This reactor can power our Hannebu III from the DePalma thread.

Last edited by Allen Burgess : 07-16-2012 at 05:28 PM.
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  #1488 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 01:23 PM
T-1000 T-1000 is offline
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Guys, I need some help if you have spare time for transformer winding

We need to test one different winding configuration than conventional transformer uses:
http://nikolat.wikispaces.com/file/v...-freq-coil.pdf

When you have multilayered coil, each layer is connected in bifilar mode, so the begining of each layer goes from same position on core. The primary is winded on right hand rule and secondary on left hand rule.

If you could make such transformer, can you please test if there is any difference in Joule Ringer circuits?

Thanks in advance!
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  #1489 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:33 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Piezo Buzzer inverter - bright light.

Hi .I will post this circuit here although its not a jouleringer but it produces very bright light efficiently and some may want to try it.
I used a small 12v piezo electric buzzer to trigger the base of a transitor and incorporated it into an inverter circuit and I am getting my best results to date with this circuit.
I can exceed mains brightness easily using a wall adapter set on 6v although the true output of the adapter is 8.5v and could easily blow the bulb if I use higher voltages.
The transistor remains cold and there is not much noise from the buzzer.
Here is a vid which shows the circuit and experiment.Jonny.
Piezo Buzzer Inverter - Bright light - YouTube
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  #1490 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2012, 11:35 AM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
Hi .I will post this circuit here although its not a jouleringer but it produces very bright light efficiently and some may want to try it.
I used a small 12v piezo electric buzzer to trigger the base of a transitor and incorporated it into an inverter circuit and I am getting my best results to date with this circuit.
I can exceed mains brightness easily using a wall adapter set on 6v although the true output of the adapter is 8.5v and could easily blow the bulb if I use higher voltages.
The transistor remains cold and there is not much noise from the buzzer.
Here is a vid which shows the circuit and experiment.Jonny.
Piezo Buzzer Inverter - Bright light - YouTube
Hi jonny

great find on the buzzer
tried it on one leg of the jr output 220 v ac led lamp 5 watts with 12 v dc power supply

normal LDR reading w/o buzzer 133 ohms @ 80 mA
with buzzer on one leg 123 ohms @80 MA with mild sound

normal LDR w.o buzzer 120 ohms @ 500 mA full brightness
with buzzer on one leg of led 86 ohms @ 500 mA high pitch sound more than full brightness

more test in progress

covered the holes on the side of the buzzer to reduce noise lol


totoalas

Last edited by totoalas : 07-18-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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  #1491 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:14 PM
jonnydavro jonnydavro is offline
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Hi totoalas.I am glad you are getting increased brightness from incorporating the buzzer.That is quite a big increase in brightness .
Can you post a circuit diagram as I think you are using it on a jouleringer and I want to be clear in my mind where you are using it or are you using it like I showed?.
Thanks for trying it out.Jonny.
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  #1492 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2012, 12:33 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydavro View Post
Hi totoalas.I am glad you are getting increased brightness from incorporating the buzzer.That is quite a big increase in brightness .
Can you post a circuit diagram as I think you are using it on a jouleringer and I want to be clear in my mind where you are using it or are you using it like I showed?.
Thanks for trying it out.Jonny.
Hi Jonny
Im using Xee2 joule ringer ckt 1 2n3055 20 k pot 18 0 18 v / 110 0 0 110 v ac transformer the 12 v dc round ordinary buzzer i placed on one leg series with led lamp 110 0 output
But your circuit is better as iy can go down to 37 ma ?? or less which is my objective for solar lighting the search goes on maybe ill coneback to the NILS circuit and try your circuit there
[IMG=http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6967/18880091.png][/IMG]

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thanks

totoalas

Last edited by totoalas : 07-19-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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  #1493 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2012, 07:33 AM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Solar SS SSG Charger Improvement + SR Load

SOLAR SS SSG CHARGER + 2 10 W SERIES SOLAR CHARGER 090812 - YouTube
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  #1494 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 08:32 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi folks, I am trying different circuits that i see in some of patrick kellys pdfs, etc. and I am having good results with alexkor's air core coil radiant charger.
I made the air core coil (24awg.) with twice as many turns as i should have though and will make another one with the recommended turns.
Using a nte2300 fast switching npn with 1.5kohm base resistor and a .1uf capacitor across base resistor.
I initially was using a nte5817 diode and results were not that great, then i took a couple of salvaged her303 diodes, placed them in series and the charging output increased dramatically, though the input doubled to 250 milliamps, not completely sure why.
Using a 12volt, 7ah input to charge another identical battery, though i will try charging a 48 volt battery bank next, as i think it will charge well with this setup.
The coil is one layer on cardboard tube, like the slayer exciters, so the frequency is probably high.
Here is the circuit from kelly's chapter 6 pdf.
free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter6.pdf


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peace love light
tyson
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  #1495 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2012, 09:24 PM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi folks, here is the alexkor, exciter type joule ringer setup.


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peace love light
tyson
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  #1496 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2012, 12:45 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi folks, in case anyone is interested, i looked up the specifications for the nte5817 diode i was using, compared to the her303's i am using now as far as max. reverse recovery time.
The nte5817 diode is rated at 2.5us and the her303 is rated at 50ns.
So that is a huge difference in speed, 50 times faster and explains why this air core coil setup is now working so well as alexkor pointed out in his improvement circuit.
And the nte2300 i am using has a max. 400ns fall time, so that helps also.
Your thoughts on this alexkor circuit are appreciated, has anyone built this circuit or intends to as i am very impressed by its performance.
peace love light
tyson
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  #1497 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:19 AM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi folks, in case anyone is interested, i looked up the specifications for the nte5817 diode i was using, compared to the her303's i am using now as far as max. reverse recovery time.
The nte5817 diode is rated at 2.5us and the her303 is rated at 50ns.
So that is a huge difference in speed, 50 times faster and explains why this air core coil setup is now working so well as alexkor pointed out in his improvement circuit.
And the nte2300 i am using has a max. 400ns fall time, so that helps also.
Your thoughts on this alexkor circuit are appreciated, has anyone built this circuit or intends to as i am very impressed by its performance.
peace love light
tyson
I have lots of coils from slayer circuit and this is easy to replicate Have you tried to charged with 24 v on the input to charged the 12 v bank and also ps try on the solar panel if you have time thanks totoalas
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  #1498 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:29 AM
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SkyWatcher SkyWatcher is offline
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Hi totoalas, I have only used 12 volt and my 13.8 volt power supply as input so far, charging 12 volt-7ah, 2-7ah in series for 24 volt and 4-7ah in series for 48 volts and down to 1.5 volt AA nimh.
The coil is a bifilar single layer for the joule ringer setup, though with a 555 timer, you can use a single strand coil.
I don't have a solar panel with enough voltage to run this well enough.
peace love light
tyson
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  #1499 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2012, 06:31 PM
marseye marseye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher
Hi folks (...),
Your thoughts on this alexkor circuit are appreciated, has anyone built this circuit or intends to as i am very impressed by its performance.
Hi Skywatcher,

Since this circuit is strongly based on Bedini's simplified Schoolgirl basic plans, I'm not sure if we shouldn't open a new thread for this.

I was playing yesterday with an Imotehp modified fan, when I decided to replace it by an aircore coil. In fact, It's this schematic you're showing (but my coil is a trifilar on a spool, 2x 0.6mm together and 1x 0,3mm which is wrapped over the 2 previous). I can't remember how many turns in each (300 ? But, in my opinion, that's not the point, since my neon lights up (and that's what it is about).

The remaining of the circuit is quite the same, except I have a 5k pot. I think the cap is of no real use. Anyway, after seeing your diagram, I've put one I had at hand (4,7nf 2000v) : that just changed the resonnance (and amp draw !), and I had to change my pot setting to keep 60mA. Anyway, at such rate, I have to put my ear very close to the coil to hear it "whistling".

Here are my notes so far (military style time ; we mostly use it everyday in France, preferably for notes) :

Time/ Feed/ Charging / mA (and notes)


17h36/ 12,30v/ 9,17v/ 60 (58,6)/
18h05/ 12,29v/ Stop/

19h28/ off/ 9,60v !!!/
20h30/ off/ 9,50v /


20h31/ 12,29/ 9,50v / 60/

00h15/ 12,28v/ Stop/

07h20/ off/ 11,55v !!!/
07h25/ 12,31v !/ 11,55v/ 60/
07h45/ 12,29v/ charging.../
08h05/ 12,28v/ charging... 45,6 (just put a white led across the feeding "+" line before the coil, to better decrease amps) (seems off, but circuit still running...)
14h40/ 12,29v/ stop (11,85v only... sh**... because of the white led ?)/

15h20/ off/ 11,78v, decreasing slowly./
15h22/ 12,29v/ charging/ 60 (withoud led)/
[17h00/ Major stop : tried for a long moment a cap with a scr, but the latter latches (never closes back)]

19h08/ 12,29v/ charging thru a 470uf (400v) cap + a diode (as a mean to filter spikes : Bedini alredy said once that these spikes can kill a battery, if I remember well)/


(to be continued... It's now still charging)

But I sincerely doubt we can fully charge a battery that way : It's about the battery's resistance, and I don't know how to get over (this problem is the same I had long ago with my Imotehp's modified fan. We always seemingly hit a wall, that I always could get over only with a regular bulk charge method).

But again : this is no joule ringer. It's Bedini's !

Oh ! My process is a long one : I'm trying to charge cars' batteries (the source one is 41 Ah, and the charging one is 55 Ah...)


Cheers.
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  #1500 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:11 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Something to ponder / digest for charging

Hi to all
Below is an excerpt from the thread of table fan/ gen conversion the transformer idea desrves a second look

Just an honest opinion based on the hands on. The reason I use transformers is that the coils are at a high ohms value. thus they are not the same impedance as the battery's internal resistance. Thus not a good match for power transfer. To enable maximum power transfer you must correct the impedance matching, or the higher resistances will absorb the power and waste it as heat in the motor/alt. open voltage is high volts before the transformers and diode rectification. simply converting this is an easy chore. I wind my own transformers and am thus able to play with the outputs efficiency. Even before I changed my setup to a double transformer matching. I have seen 70 and 80 watts out. I hope this helps in the exploration to the questions at hand. I chose this particular blog number not to insult it's writer but it had the most definitive start. Thank you for reading. I have not logged in or registered I just wanted to say hi and share my experience. Capt'n Ron Way Peachfuzz
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