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Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

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  #2821  
Old 08-30-2013, 07:10 AM
mortimer.dan mortimer.dan is offline
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It has been mentioned before but not for a while. So i would like to ask those who make fuel from plastic how safe it is to run in engines without long term damage. I appreciate the whole modern engine verses older engine scenario. I guess my question is, is it worth converting plastic waste to fuel if it can cause damage to engines. Is the fuel safe to use in generators or say large wood chipers or old farm tractors. Or is it better to convert to kerosene as imbd does. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
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  #2822  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:47 AM
imakebiodiesel imakebiodiesel is offline
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The answer to that question is not simple.
Pyrolysis of plastics produces a mixture of hydrocarbon fuels broadly classified as naphtha C5 - C10, kerosene C10 - C 15, and diesel C15 - C20.
In my experience the naphtha is unsuitable as motor fuel in a gasoline engine. Its very low octane rating of 55 causes engines to knock and overheat. Eventually it will cause valve and bearing damage and seizure.

The diesel is a different matter. If the diesel fraction can be confined to only C15 - C20 it should work well as a fuel. This is all very well in theory but in practice is difficult to do. Too much >C20 will produces waxes which will block filters and cause difficult starting. Too much <C15 will reduce lubrication and cause damage to the injection system and injectors.

Another matter is oxidation. Pyrolysis diesel tends to darken over time and a sludge will drop out. This will cause a build up of deposits in the fuel system and long term problems.
So the answer is yes, if diesel is made carefully enough and issues such as oxidation and dertergence can be solved then it should be usable as a motor fuel.
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  #2823  
Old 08-30-2013, 12:21 PM
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lowriderzzz lowriderzzz is offline
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Question how to figure out what is this plastic type ? PICTURES

I can have each month about 30 kg of this plastic pins for heating water boiler that goes spare and for waste from a factory nearby. However I don't know what type of plastic do they use to make it.

Is it PE or PP or PET ( i hope its not PET ).

Is there a way to make it analyzed or to this by some sort of process - burn or put in water etc.

Here is how it looks like:







It looks very solid color , but actually its a little transparent. Also its easy to tear down and cut and stretch (i guess).
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  #2824  
Old 08-30-2013, 01:09 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowriderzzz View Post
I can have each month about 30 kg of this plastic pins for heating water boiler that goes spare and for waste from a factory nearby. However I don't know what type of plastic do they use to make it.

Is it PE or PP or PET ( i hope its not PET ).

Is there a way to make it analyzed or to this by some sort of process - burn or put in water etc.


It looks very solid color , but actually its a little transparent. Also its easy to tear down and cut and stretch (i guess).
This has been stated several times in the thread before.

Take a small bowl at least 8cm deep and fill it with water. Take one of your plastic pins and push it all the way down to the bottom with your fingers. If it floats it's likely hdpe or pp. If it stays at the bottom dont use it.
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  #2825  
Old 08-30-2013, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post
This has been stated several times in the thread before.

Take a small bowl at least 8cm deep and fill it with water. Take one of your plastic pins and push it all the way down to the bottom with your fingers. If it floats it's likely hdpe or pp. If it stays at the bottom don't use it.
Now I remeber somewhere I saw some post like it but I have forgotten about it. Thanks
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  #2826  
Old 08-30-2013, 04:27 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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Originally Posted by lowriderzzz View Post
what goes in each orifice ? where comes in and out the water and where comes in and out the gasses ?


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2fd410f.jpg
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  #2827  
Old 08-31-2013, 02:01 AM
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Excalibur Excalibur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowriderzzz View Post
I can have each month about 30 kg of this plastic pins for heating water boiler that goes spare and for waste from a factory nearby. However I don't know what type of plastic do they use to make it.

Is it PE or PP or PET ( i hope its not PET ).

Is there a way to make it analyzed or to this by some sort of process - burn or put in water etc.

It looks very solid color , but actually its a little transparent. Also its easy to tear down and cut and stretch (i guess).
Jetijs test is worth trying on it
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  #2828  
Old 08-31-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
I did the test: Doesn't bubble, doesn't make black color on the plastic, doesn't smell bad or sharp.



I also did what mjohnson1 suggested - to test if it floats or sinks: It floats

I hope this will be great for feedstock.
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  #2829  
Old 08-31-2013, 04:08 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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Breathing in plastic fumes (especially PVC fumes) isn't my idea of a great test.
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  #2830  
Old 09-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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Originally Posted by lowriderzzz View Post
I did the test: Doesn't bubble, doesn't make black color on the plastic, doesn't smell bad or sharp.

I also did what mjohnson1 suggested - to test if it floats or sinks: It floats

I hope this will be great for feedstock.
It is most probably either nylon or a polyethylene, and most probably not PVC, or PTFE, or ABS.
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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.
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  #2831  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:49 PM
imakebiodiesel imakebiodiesel is offline
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If the object floats then its PE or PP, either way its good for pyrolysis. It look clean and uncoloured which makes it even better. It cant be nylon because the density of nylon ie 1.15 -1.41 so nylon would sink in water. If you want to distinguish between PE and PP try putting it into a container of clean vegetable oil. PE will sink in vegetable oil and PP will float.
This may not work with every vegetable oil, I use rapeseed ( canola) oil and it works a treat.
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  #2832  
Old 09-03-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond Biodiesel View Post
It is most probably either nylon or a polyethylene, and most probably not PVC, or PTFE, or ABS.
which is good for using it as feedstock right ? Actually is nylon and plastic bags good for feedstock ?
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  #2833  
Old 09-03-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imakebiodiesel View Post
If the object floats then its PE or PP, either way its good for pyrolysis. It look clean and uncoloured which makes it even better. It cant be nylon because the density of nylon ie 1.15 -1.41 so nylon would sink in water. If you want to distinguish between PE and PP try putting it into a container of clean vegetable oil. PE will sink in vegetable oil and PP will float.
This may not work with every vegetable oil, I use rapeseed ( canola) oil and it works a treat.
thanks I'll try that too
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  #2834  
Old 09-03-2013, 06:06 PM
imakebiodiesel imakebiodiesel is offline
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Your sample floats in water so its either PE or PP. Both are good for pyrolysis.
If it had sunk it would not be suitable. If it was nylon it would have sunk. Nylon is not suitable because pyrolysis would break it down and release nitrogen( result cyanide) and also oxygen ( result Boom!)

I feel that I should say that I am coming to the conclusion that I should withdraw from this discussion. There are many people who have begun to experiment with this technology who have only the vaguest idea of the risks. Sooner or later some one is going to be seriously injured or lose their life and while I feel that everyone is entitled to take risks with their own life and property I do not wish to be held even partly responsible. I have learned a great deal from my participation in this forum and I wish to thank everyone who has contributed over the last few years.
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  #2835  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:48 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imakebiodiesel View Post
Your sample floats in water so its either PE or PP. Both are good for pyrolysis.
If it had sunk it would not be suitable. If it was nylon it would have sunk. Nylon is not suitable because pyrolysis would break it down and release nitrogen( result cyanide) and also oxygen ( result Boom!)

I feel that I should say that I am coming to the conclusion that I should withdraw from this discussion. There are many people who have begun to experiment with this technology who have only the vaguest idea of the risks. Sooner or later some one is going to be seriously injured or lose their life and while I feel that everyone is entitled to take risks with their own life and property I do not wish to be held even partly responsible. I have learned a great deal from my participation in this forum and I wish to thank everyone who has contributed over the last few years.
I really hope you'll stay as you have a lot of knowledge and real world experiences. Without someone to advise them many beginners would be at an even greater risk.

I think you're the farthest along in the plastic to fuel process especially in the catalyst area. I know your advice has helped me a lot and I thank you for all your contributions.
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  #2836  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:52 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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Originally Posted by lowriderzzz View Post
which is good for using it as feedstock right ? Actually is nylon and plastic bags good for feedstock ?
Nylon - No
PVC - No
PET - No
ABS - No

Plastic bags - Most likely yes. I've only seen bags made from hdpe and ldpe and rarely pp.

Here in the US many plastic items have recycle codes. I'm not sure if this is the same in your area of the world. Recycle codes usually have the triangle and a number in them. This is the easiest way to identify plastics. If you have any doubts test to verify the composition of the plastic before using it.
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  #2837  
Old 09-04-2013, 01:36 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imakebiodiesel View Post
Your sample floats in water so its either PE or PP. Both are good for pyrolysis.
If it had sunk it would not be suitable. If it was nylon it would have sunk. Nylon is not suitable because pyrolysis would break it down and release nitrogen( result cyanide) and also oxygen ( result Boom!)
I checked the WIKI on nylon. See below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Nylon is a generic designation for a family of synthetic polymers known generically as aliphatic polyamides, first produced on February 28, 1935, by Wallace Carothers at DuPont's research facility at the DuPont Experimental Station. Nylon is one of the most commonly used polymers.[1] Key representatives are nylon-6,6, nylon-6, nylon-6,9, nylon-6,12, nylon-11, nylon-12 and nylon-4,6.[1]
Incineration and recycling
Various nylons break down in fire and form hazardous smoke, and toxic fumes or ash, typically containing hydrogen cyanide. Incinerating nylons to recover the high energy used to create them is usually expensive, so most nylons reach the garbage dumps, decaying very slowly.[11] Some recycling is done on nylon, usually creating pellets for reuse in the industry.[12]
I do not happen to see how the thermal decomposition of any nylon results in releasing hydrogen cyanide, because the chemical formula for nylon does not include cyanide (CN). However, anyone doing pyrolysis of plastics to crack them back to petroleum fractions needs to accommodate for the unexpected release of toxic byproducts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imakebiodiesel View Post
I feel that I should say that I am coming to the conclusion that I should withdraw from this discussion. There are many people who have begun to experiment with this technology who have only the vaguest idea of the risks. Sooner or later some one is going to be seriously injured or lose their life and while I feel that everyone is entitled to take risks with their own life and property I do not wish to be held even partly responsible. I have learned a great deal from my participation in this forum and I wish to thank everyone who has contributed over the last few years.
In concur fully with your feelings imakebiodiesel. I have been conflicted from the beginning of my participation here, because I knew then that cracking and fractionation of hydrocarbons is extremely dangerous, and I have since found that cracking plastics can release extremely toxic substances. However, I have remains on this forum for two reasons.
1) To learn how to simplify the cracking and fractionation of hydrocarbons and plastics in a safe manner.
2) To remind everyone interested in this process of three things:

Safety
Safety
Safety

So I encourage you to remain here to help remind people of the three most important things to keep in mind when engaged in the pyrolysis of hydrocarbons.
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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.
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  #2838  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:26 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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Here is bit of info taken from - Hydrogen Cyanide: New Concerns for Firefighting and Medical Tactics - Fire Engineering

"But the real offender is the combustion of manmade plastic and resins containing nitrogen, especially if the fire is hot and in an enclosed space. Common manmade materials that generate cyanide gas during combustion include nylon, polyurethane, melamine, and acrylonitrile."
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  #2839  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:06 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post
Here is bit of info taken from - Hydrogen Cyanide: New Concerns for Firefighting and Medical Tactics - Fire Engineering

"But the real offender is the combustion of manmade plastic and resins containing nitrogen, especially if the fire is hot and in an enclosed space. Common manmade materials that generate cyanide gas during combustion include nylon, polyurethane, melamine, and acrylonitrile."
Thanks, mjohnson1, that is very useful information. But, I do not see how Nitrogen in the hydrocarbon molecule leads to cyanide (CN) being there, but I can see how Nitrogen in the hydrocarbon molecule can lead to higher energy, which can translate into a hotter fire, which should not be a problem for controlled pyrolysis.

I find it curious that ABS is not mentioned in the fire fighting manual as having cyanide (CN), when it does have it. Also, polyurethane does not have cyanide (CN) in its formula.

The bottom line for me is the pyrolysis of plastics to turn them back into petroleum fractions has to be the most toxic occupation on the planet. There are much easier/less toxic ways to convert garbage into fuel. I plan to develop the device and get some experience with the practice, but I have no intention of long-term use of it.

The distillation of WMO is toxic enough, and way less toxic than the pyrolysis of plastics; however, I have no intention of long-term use of it either. My goal is to use these skills to extract fuel from trees, because it is far less toxic, and I live surrounded by forests.
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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.
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  #2840  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:02 PM
mjohnson1 mjohnson1 is offline
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I'm no chemist but I believe what happens is at high temperatures the nitrogen and carbon bonds break in the nylon and form into CN or HCN


Nitrogen gas (N2) doesn't decompose at pyrolysis temperatures which makes it safe as an inert gas.

I would strongly disagree that pyrolysis of plastics is one of the most toxic occupations. At their most basic, plastics are just hydrocarbon chains just like crude oil. Plastic pyrolysis of the right types of plastic is no more toxic than crude oil refining.

As long as you feed in some sort of PE, PP or PS you'll be fine. The danger lies in the contaminants that can be introduced. Even so, the contaminants can be avoided by bubblers, combustion and other processes which I have no knowledge in.

I have no experience in WMO so I won't comment on that.
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  #2841  
Old 09-06-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post

As long as you feed in some sort of PE, PP or PS you'll be fine. .

Do you think PS is OK as a feedstock. I think that I remember earlier on this thread to be said that PS is a No No. However i'm not quite sure of this.
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  #2842  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:02 AM
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PS not at 100%, but mixed for example with PE and PP in a 20%, otherwise it tends to return to its original composition and can make a block in the car tank and engine (very simple explanation, but it happens... )

Quote:
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Do you think PS is OK as a feedstock. I think that I remember earlier on this thread to be said that PS is a No No. However i'm not quite sure of this.
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  #2843  
Old 09-06-2013, 11:13 AM
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Holy Dooly you guys are mad.

Burning plastic with/without oxygen is one thing, burning unknown plastics is another. Good God, who knows what is in it, or what it could form.

Be careful here guys, any disease caused from toxic fumes via these methods probably wont be acute until it is too late, make sure your exhausts are well away from you and everyone else.

If you don't know what the plastic is, exactly, don't burn it. Or at the very least buy a gas mask with those oxygen cylinders. There is a reason why it isn't done main stream and some of those research institutes that do it have safety methods in place.
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  #2844  
Old 09-06-2013, 01:06 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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I'm no chemist but I believe what happens is at high temperatures the nitrogen and carbon bonds break in the nylon and form into CN or HCN
No, you have to have cyanide (CN) not C-N) present for cyanide to be released from any reaction.

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Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post
Nitrogen gas (N2) doesn't decompose at pyrolysis temperatures which makes it safe as an inert gas.
Correct. At Chevron research all of the labs had large liquid N2 cylinders that supplied each lab with N2 for purge gas, and we all used it. However, CO2 is cheaper, and should be just as effective.
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Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post
I would strongly disagree that pyrolysis of plastics is one of the most toxic occupations. At their most basic, plastics are just hydrocarbon chains just like crude oil. Plastic pyrolysis of the right types of plastic is no more toxic than crude oil refining.

As long as you feed in some sort of PE, PP or PS you'll be fine. The danger lies in the contaminants that can be introduced. Even so, the contaminants can be avoided by bubblers, combustion and other processes which I have no knowledge in.
Agreed; however, avoiding the contaminants can be impossible.
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Originally Posted by mjohnson1 View Post
I have no experience in WMO so I won't comment on that.
Even WMO has its toxic contaminants, which I recorded here almost a year ago. Those contaminants could have killed me if I did not have the experience to know that I had bumped into something very toxic (HCL).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toll View Post
Holy Dooly you guys are mad.

Burning plastic with/without oxygen is one thing, burning unknown plastics is another. Good God, who knows what is in it, or what it could form.

Be careful here guys, any disease caused from toxic fumes via these methods probably wont be acute until it is too late, make sure your exhausts are well away from you and everyone else.

If you don't know what the plastic is, exactly, don't burn it. Or at the very least buy a gas mask with those oxygen cylinders. There is a reason why it isn't done main stream and some of those research institutes that do it have safety methods in place.
I have been preaching this from the beginning of my presence here over a year ago. However, we are not burning plastics. We are pyrolyzing them in an inert environment in a controlled process, or should be.
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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

Last edited by Beyond Biodiesel; 09-07-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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  #2845  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by fibuslitero View Post
PS not at 100%, but mixed for example with PE and PP in a 20%, otherwise it tends to return to its original composition and can make a block in the car tank and engine (very simple explanation, but it happens... )
you mean 20% PS and 80% PP or PE. That is still acceptable since I have plenty PS garbage around.
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  #2846  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:39 PM
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Regards to All

Well I for one am very sorry to see IMBD go from the forum, but respect his choice. I would like to thank all here esp IMBD for providing such rich information. I am but a lowly junior member but have read all through the post taking notes as i went. I remain very interested and convinced this type of technology will / is starting to filter in to the mainstream. Albeit at very high prices. I am in email contact with old member Asad now and he is doing well I think selling Pyrolysis machines. Safety really is number 1 in this game, i have learn't that so the forum is working not everyone is trying this stuff without proper knowledge. And it is not the responsibility of IMBD or anyone to feel guilty or be conflicted with the knowledge provided, however I can see why it is an issue. People will try this stuff regardless and probably get hurt because they didnt read the whole thread first. Youtube is full of people doing this now. Beyond biodiesel if you would be willing to share you experiences or plans for pyrolysis with wood and or plant matter I for one would be happy to listen. Youtube has a guy called Mr Teslonian who does this very well, and gets syngas, a form of crude, uses different catalysts and runs a generator, a propane fridge, heats water all form a single fire, its worth a watch if your interested in this type of thing.

It seems to me that with all the knowledge on here it would be a good idea to band together and plan or build a universal up to date schematic of a complete system, a bit like jetsis did at the start. Things are so much more complex now, anyway probably just thinking out loud ( or on screen ). The link to the plant mentioned is here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbXj9R6ZXw

Sorry for the long post.
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:57 AM
Mechanical Enginerd Mechanical Enginerd is offline
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Summary thus far...

Hello Everyone,

First, I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed information to this subject. So far I've read through post 705.

I was wondering whether someone could kindly summarize the findings thus far. What works and what doesn't work primarily from a catalyst standpoint.

By trade I'm a test engineer specializing in control systems. I've been interested in developing a reactor for several years now but have up until now not had the funds nor time to begin this particular endeavor. That being said I have given it much thought. One primary aspect being a method to precisely control conditions in the reactor to optimize output of desired fractions from the reaction.

A simple and relatively inexpensive method would be the utilization of a PLC (programmable logic controller) in conjunction with thermocouples in the condensors that would optimistically be temperature controlled via a heat exchanger and pump controls. Parameters can be very easily dictated through the PLC for different stages in the operating process (i.e. startup, mid range production, tail off assuming a batch reactor configuration), in which valves can be opened and closed from the reflux tower as needed based on operating conditions. The control system setup would not differ much from those used in industrial beer brewing operations.

Sorry to make this so lengthy. If there is interest in this feel free to respond and we can discuss further.

Thanks
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mechanical Enginerd View Post
Hello Everyone,

First, I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed information to this subject. So far I've read through post 705.

I was wondering whether someone could kindly summarize the findings thus far. What works and what doesn't work primarily from a catalyst standpoint.

By trade I'm a test engineer specializing in control systems. I've been interested in developing a reactor for several years now but have up until now not had the funds nor time to begin this particular endeavor. That being said I have given it much thought. One primary aspect being a method to precisely control conditions in the reactor to optimize output of desired fractions from the reaction.

A simple and relatively inexpensive method would be the utilization of a PLC (programmable logic controller) in conjunction with thermocouples in the condensors that would optimistically be temperature controlled via a heat exchanger and pump controls. Parameters can be very easily dictated through the PLC for different stages in the operating process (i.e. startup, mid range production, tail off assuming a batch reactor configuration), in which valves can be opened and closed from the reflux tower as needed based on operating conditions. The control system setup would not differ much from those used in industrial beer brewing operations.

Sorry to make this so lengthy. If there is interest in this feel free to respond and we can discuss further.

Thanks
Welcome Mechanical Enginerd.
Thanks for making the effort in the marathon read to post 705. Forum members appreciate it. This project is a joint effort with many contributors sharing a vast wealth of knowledge and experience.

I'm interested in the PLC approach to plant management as I've just put together an Arduino microcontroller set up for gas control from thermocouple signal in the retort of my latest prototype. The plan is to use non-condensable and surplus gases as heat for the retort.

Please tell us more. What would a basic PLC cost and how difficult is the programming?
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:24 PM
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mercedes 308 mercedes 308 is offline
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I can understand Imakebiodiesel's reservations about posting further in this thread. But I think the more well established developers willingness to give advise, has probably saved the less experienced members from tragic mistakes.
This subject is so widespread that without this thread many would have attempted this on their own, with disastrous results. His observations, and input will be sorely missed.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Beyond Biodiesel Beyond Biodiesel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer.dan View Post
Well I for one am very sorry to see IMBD go from the forum, but respect his choice.
I too will miss IMBD, but I respect his choices, and understand the conflict, because every time I read someone on here firing up they pyrolysis unit for the first time, and find that all it was was a barrel, and no condenser, I think I should not be on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer.dan View Post
Beyond biodiesel if you would be willing to share you experiences or plans for pyrolysis with wood and or plant matter I for one would be happy to listen. Youtube has a guy called Mr Teslonian who does this very well, and gets syngas, a form of crude, uses different catalysts and runs a generator, a propane fridge, heats water all form a single fire, its worth a watch if your interested in this type of thing.

It seems to me that with all the knowledge on here it would be a good idea to band together and plan or build a universal up to date schematic of a complete system, a bit like jetsis did at the start. Things are so much more complex now, anyway probably just thinking out loud ( or on screen ). The link to the plant mentioned is here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbXj9R6ZXw

Sorry for the long post.
Thanks for your interest mortimer.dan in my approach to bio-gas production. I have been interested in bio-gas and cracking plastics back to petroleum for about 40 years, so I have given these processes a great deal of thought, and research, but not much bench level research until a year and a half ago.

What I see wrong with most of the bio-gas production units that I see is they lack a decent cracking front end, and fractionation back-end, so they are throwing out most of the fuel they make.

What I see here in plastic cracking is typically an inadequate fractionation back-end.

The only difference between what I have and what I will have when I add bio-gas production to my pyrolysis, cracking and fractionation unit is a bio-gas production front end. I plan to just build a bio-gas production unit and pipe it right into my cracking unit. That is the only difference that will take place in my unit.

Welcome Mechanical Enginerd, Excalibur and I are working independently on Arduino controllers for our respective pyrolysis units. I think one of the things that is missing from this thread is a discussion of PLC (programmable logic controller), and Arduinos as PLC (programmable logic controller). So, I look forward to your contribution on this subject.
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