That is great news Pravin!!! Now that you know how to eliminate the smell, you can focus on capturing more fuel rather than waste it in the scrubber and bubbler. I suggest introducing a second condenser in series with the first one. That may not be simple to implement immediately, but it can be a longer term goal

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress!!!

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My first design had just a 6 foot (2m) long tube-in-tube water-cooled condenser, where I collected kerosene, but I smelled a lot of oil vapor coming out the exhaust, so I added an 8 foot (3m) I got no more condensate at the bottom of that 2nd tube-in-tube water-cooled condenser, so I added a 20 foot (6m) coil in a bucket of ice, and now I get gasoline at the bottom of that condenser, and no more oil vapors come out the exhaust. I also found all I needed was a 2foot (1m) long tube-in-tube water-cooled condenser.

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

BBD, thanks for sharing, but these are all absolute dimensions and numbers that need to be related to the size of your reactor, and the feedstock used....just for everyone else's education :-)

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I agree, I am currently working on distilling WMO, because I have access to more WMO than I can manage to turn into fuel. So, my reactor/retort is only 6 gallons (22.7L). I also do not blast watts into my retort, instead I want control, so I am using only 1500 watts for now.

The big problem I have had is, I was just dumping all of the watts into the bottom of the retort. I am planning on spreading the watts out more evenly all over the retort. When the upgrade is completed, and I have run it successfully, then I will report back, but it should work well.

Heating just the bottom of the retort when I was just distilling off light fractions from contaminated solvents up to 400F (200c) worked fine, but as the terminal Temp has gone up from ambient, the greater the delta T across the device has become to the point that I get boiling, but little distillate is coming out, because it is just refluxing off the cooler lid.

Knowing how long the run is for others would help. Lately my runs with 6 gallons (22.7L) of WMO have been 7 hours from the time I turned on the heat to the time I turned it off.

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

There are 65+ pages in this thread dedicated to explaining just that - pyrolysis of plastics - but thank you for the summary. Care to tell us if you're speaking of first hand experience or academic knowledge?

Thank you

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that's awesome. But my question is... Has anyone in this thread made it? I've seen the technique of Akinori Ito (or similar name) is extremely simple to do. But I'm not going to read 65+ pages only to check if someone here has did it.

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I'm not sure if your comments are directed at me or the previous poster who made statements about how "simple" this is.

The answer is in the opening of the thread on the very first page, and it is yes, but not as simplistically as implied by Ksushi or yourself . You can equally describe the principle of operation of an internal combustion engine, but can't call it "simple". Same for plastic pyrolysis to liquid fuel. There are many ways to achieve temperature control and fluid management. We're not reinventing the wheel here, just educating the public on available hardware and processes that can be achieved by ambitious backyard tinkerers, using a variety of feedstock.

if you read through this thread, you'll spare everyone yet another regurgitation (and less additional/redundant pages) of the same thing to a newbie who demands to have their questions answered but are not willing to read. And it doesn't stop there. After the initial inquiry is answered, new follow-up questions come up, all of which had been answered to nauseum in the earlier pages anyway. Questions are encouraged of course, but not attitudes that are openly against reading....on their first post nonetheless.


I'm sorry but if you don't want to bother with reading what many put so much effort in writing for the benefit of people like you, why do you expect the same people to bother themselves and give you special attention?

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Marso Green, I like you!

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It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

I didn't found drawing or description of the interior of the column reflux and the ratio with reactor. Can anyone help?

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This has been quite a read with a lot of good info, some drama and a bit of ignorant contradicting arrogance (from one member that I don't need to mention...

Jetijs, much respect... Nice job, wise approach to both the project and the students.

I began working on plastic to fuel about two months ago completely blind, just on a hunch and some faint recollection of pyrolysis. As a result I took a completely different approach that I'm sure you all may find helpful.

I have much to share but it's late and I have been trading sleep for reading time for the last two weeks and it's starting to catch up with me. Tomorrow I will post some pic, share my journey and ask some questions (and I promise they won't be ones that I can find the answers to in the past 66 pages... unless I missed something because I was dozing off)

Thanks to all the clever,
The persistent,
And the dreamers it took,
I admire and appreciate your work and contributions to this endeavor.

SY

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Welcome SY, I look forward to reading your contributions to this thread.

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

Has anyone managed to get their hands on some zeolite catalyst?

Here's a picture of a chart from a book which shows the conversion of polyolefins to fuels. If we could all get a group buy going or if someone knows of a reliable supplier of zeolite catalyst I would like to experiment with it.

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Here is a little more about my journey-

I have a lot of waste plastic that i have to pay to get rid of and was looking for answers. Over the summer i bumped into a friend that told me he got a new job managing a plastic recycling facility. One question led to another and by the time we finished our discussion i was eager to setup a meeting to see the facility. I learned quite a bit and this tour of his plant opened my eyes to something i really didn't think much about in the past and that is that plastic has value and that recycling plastic is quickly becoming big business.

One question led to another again and before long i came to realize that my initial conclusions were incorrect. I came to find out that plastic for recycling only has value IF it is clean, sorted and ground. The value for the buyers is only there if the recycled plastic is uncontaminated and can be dumped into the same bin as new plastic to produce the same end product that they are using it for... so much as a printed sell by date on a milk carton is the difference between $.80 a pound and $.02 a pound.

As i walk the plant there was a phrase that kept coming up- "that's contaminated so it goes in the export container". for every bin of good sell-able 'clean' plastic there seemed to be two bins of contaminated "export".

Well what does that mean "export" anyway?

He went on to tell me that they sell the contaminated plastic to China all mixed together. even with contaminates, dirt, wood, paper... all of the 'junk' they sweep from the floor, everything goes in the shipping containers that lined the parking lot. hmmm....???

To make it even more interesting he told me that they actually lose about $20 a ton when they export it but that that is still good because its $20 cheaper than having to pay the dump to take it for $40 a ton.

So let me get this straight... you sell it to China... at a loss...
what do they do with it???

No one really knew, a lot of guesses and crazy ideas but no solid answers.


Well i thought about this for months and finally started to look into it. With quite a bit of effort i chased the answer thru a number of recycling companies until i talked with an owner of a little shop (btw, these places are popping up like crazy, seems that plastic is the new scrap metal, only you need bigger trucks to scrap for it... i mean collect it) He said something that finally made it make sense "plastic is made of oil and the Chinese are stockpiling it like crazy to turn it back to oil!"


!!! I was now on a mission !!!

Normally i would research the heck out of the idea and then work on it, but for some reason something clicked and instead i immediately setup a crude test and tried a few things completely blind of all of the progress that people have already made in this field.

I did my testing based on something i vaguely remembered about pyrolsys----This is the important part that i think you all can appreciate and perhaps utilize- I used a simple lab setup... Glass!, quick, simple, see thru, and very informative!

I was able to run some simple experiments and quickly produced fuel!
It was amazing to see that heating plastic in a boiling flask in a vacuum and running the gas thru a kjeldahl bulb (another important point) and then thru a condenser easily produced fuel... and quickly i learned that by simply changing the collection flask as the boiling points were hit (I could see the temp drop then rise as the fractions cracked and boiled away) i could get the various fractions separated.

After spending about a week playing, learning and simply applying basic chemistry i was quite satisfied that i could upscale this to a large scale device... and that's when i sat down and started to research this and soon bumped into this great forum.

I think it took longer to read this all than it did to do the experiments...
and i pained at the trials and tribulations that some of you have encountered... I wanted so badly to post "hey, try this in a small scale glass setup!" so that everyone can see what is happening. Simply seeing what is going on can make this so much easier to learn and understand. My issue was that i was still two years behind most of you in the thread so i couldn't post until i caught up (and I sat on the edge of my seat to see how it turned out!). I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to not know what is going on inside your devices... and i hope you all can appreciate what i hope to contribute...

I wish i had more time to get all the info, pics, videos and data posted... but i plan to do this in the coming days and weeks for the good of all that journeys down this same road!

ps, sorry for the long post but there is just so much to share for me to make it all make sense.


SY

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That was a great post Sy, and a great read. I have distilled crude oil in glassware. It is very instructive to do so, so i was glad to see someone here do that.

Do keep in mind that there are some very toxic by products of pyrolysis that can come from halogenated hydrocarbons, so one will want to avoid those sources, such as: PVC, PTFE, etc.

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

beyond bio. i have huge waste of recycled pet & polyester film ( used sun control film 4 auto ). Is it possible to proces them safely commercialy. pls reply.

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Pravin, After nearing becoming overwhelmed with Hydrogen Chloride gas (HCL) I stopped my pyrolysis project and spent a few weeks studying the Toxic by products of pyrolysis and how to mitigate them.

Polyethylene (abbreviated PE) or polythene (IUPAC name polyethene or poly(methylene)) is the most common plastic. The annual production is approximately 80 million metric tons.[1] Its primary use is within packaging (plastic bag, plastic films, geomembranes, containers including bottles, etc.). Many kinds of polyethylene are known, with most having the chemical formula (C2H4)nH2. Thus PE is usually a mixture of similar organic compounds that differ in terms of the value of n.

Toxic by products of pyrolysis
Since Polyethylene is no a halogenated hydrocarbon, then the by products of pyrolysis are going to be just petroleum vapors, which are toxic, and flammable; however, they can be effectively handled with simple condensation via a succession of air, water and ice cooled condensers.

Physical properties
Polyethylene is a thermoplastic polymer consisting of long hydrocarbon chains. Depending on the crystallinity and molecular weight, a melting point and glass transition may or may not be observable. The temperature at which these occur varies strongly with the type of polyethylene. For common commercial grades of medium- and high-density polyethylene the melting point is typically in the range 120 to 130 °C (248 to 266 °F). The melting point for average, commercial, low-density polyethylene is typically 105 to 115 °C (221 to 239 °F).

I have just stated a thread on my forum for discussing the toxic by products of pyrolysis. You can find it at the link below.
Toxic by products of pyrolysis

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

Pravin, the short answer is no. both pet and polyester are unsuitable for pyrolysis into fuels.
Sy, welcome to the forum. Would like to hear more details about your small scale experiments. What temperatures, types of plastics etc. I have performed 65 1kg batches in my small pyrolyser and I am still learning new stuff all the time. Im almost finished my larger unit 50-75 kg and hope to be operational by Christmas, would have been sooner but paid work comes first.

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Yes it could be done safely on a commercial scale however the yields from PET are not good. If you look at the chemical makeup of PET it is much higher in carbon than the other recommended plastics for pyrolysis. Therefore, you will not get good fuel yields.

The oxygen has to be taken care of otherwise you have a big disaster waiting to happen. Terephthalic acid will also be formed which can cause problems. There is a wealth of information on PET pyrolysis if you look around.

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Hi All,

I would like to share with you the info that the pyrolysis unit you can see in the picture will be ready for first tests at the beginning of January, 2013. I will share information on this thread about the capabilities of this plant with pictures, videos and test results. The plant will be installed at landfill area where they have plastic sorting. The capacity of this test plant we will plan approx 200Ltr or 100kg per cycle. Dimensions - 1,5mx2,0x3,0m (without lift beam ccinstruction). As reactor material we use thermal resistant stainless steel with very good insulation from outside.

Best regards.

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PolyFUEL_200L_Bilde.jpg (34.2 KB, 232 views)

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Hello Jetijs,

you really did a fantastic job and i have no word to say anything i am really very impressed with your work.

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hello Gints,

your reactor looks very well thought out. The picture is very small and is hard to make out. It appears to be a cylindrical retort heated by an oil or gas burner with a reflux chamber above. the output from the first 2 condenser is returning to the retort for recracking. There is another vessel and a set of condensers at the back, what are they for?

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Hi,

There will be following production steps - reactor, refluctor, heat exchanger, product tank 1, heat exchanger, product tank 2, bubbler, the rest gas goes to burner chamber. So there are will be two stages if it is necessary to go further with condensing process.

Attached Files

	3.pdf (59.5 KB, 253 views)
	5.pdf (53.0 KB, 188 views)

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The thermal decomposition of Polyethylene (PETE, PET, HDPE, LDPE) can lead to the production of terephthalic acid; however, studies shows terephthalic acid is of low order of toxicity, and it is non-irritating to the skin and eyes.
www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/100-21-0.pdf

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

The problem with terephthalic acid is that it sublimates below 300C which can gum up the pipes and reactor.

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Gints, those views are much better. With that out fit you should have good control of the quality of the final products. What fuels do you intend to produce?
I can confirm from bitter experience that terephthalic acid solidifies in condensers. In my experiments with PET I almost blew my self up. About half way through a 1kg batch my bubbler suddenly stopped, always a warning sign. While I was trying to figure our what had happened, I suspected a leak, the steel pipe between the reflux and the condenser split open with a loud crack. The welded joint had failed under pressure, which was just as well because if my welding has not failed the pressure could have built up further and my reactor could have exploded.
Later when I took the outfit apart to repair it the pipe and the condenser was completely clogged with what looked like tar. Terephthalic acid may not be very toxic but that does not mean it is not dangerous.

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Just out of curiosity, imakebiodiesel, at the time you plugged your pyrolysis unit trying to crack PET, how large was your retort, and what diameter was the pipe that plugged?

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I have been running various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP since Feb, 2007. I have started the engine with no difficulty and no block heater on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 0F (-18c). I have found that by blending as little as 15% gasoline in the summer, and as much as 50% in the winter, my engine starts and runs as if it was running on diesel fuel.

Scary stuff.

FeOOH can be used as a catalyst to decompose the terephthalic acid.

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The batch size was 1kg and the exit pipe was 1 inch. At the time my pressure relief valve was positioned at the top of my reflux column so it got blocked as well. After that incident I fitted the pressure relief valve on it own pipe direct to the retort, a much safer arrangement.
Im aware that there are ways to avoid the problems of terephthalic acid but they are a fair bit more expense and trouble. Clean PET currently is worth 940 euros a metric ton here in Europe which means that if you subtract the tax on fuel, raw unprocessed PET is worth more than the fuel you could make from it.
Soiled, unsorted PE,PP and PS on the other hand is worth almost nothing and is ideal for our process. Thats why my short answer to Pravins question was no.

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Even i faced a similar problem. My entire condenser tubes were choked forming a white powdery kind of layer on all the condenser and accs. Did u find something similar. In that case how to recover or remove terephthalic acid, any idea.
Secondly IMD i get the soiled and cleaned PE,PP and PS at throwaway price. Dats the reason i am considering commercial pyrolysis.

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Hi,

With this unit I will plan to crack only PE, PP, LDPE, HDPE materials. Also in the pressure sensor will be installed in reactor. When the pressure sensor is triggered a rise in pressure system, the entire system will be switched off.
Thanks for the idea you notice about the bubbler. I think somewhere can be kind of gas meter installed. In cases where the meter stops, the unit also will be switched off.
Best regards.

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