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  #3781  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:28 AM
abanelu abanelu is offline
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As avea nevoie de ceva detalii in limba romana. Ma poti ajuta?
abanelu@yahoo.com
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  #3782  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:30 AM
abanelu abanelu is offline
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pentru fox32
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  #3783  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:56 AM
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Excalibur Excalibur is offline
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Orion

My new deep retort probe showed 10░C - 30░C difference compared to the existing probe.
The balance scale for determining retort level has been improved with some tweaks. This can be seen on my latest Youtube video.
I have enough diesel for 3- 4 weeks so will be running the retort with the latest tweaks soon.
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  #3784  
Old 08-09-2014, 08:32 AM
jonathan jonathan is offline
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retort

thanks excalibur for sharing your tests...keep it up
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  #3785  
Old 08-18-2014, 06:40 PM
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sunilkm153 sunilkm153 is offline
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Hi Friends
why there is so much silence on this wonderful discussion are all your qurries get answered please post your views and keep this wonderful discussion alive

Thanks
Sunil
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  #3786  
Old 08-20-2014, 05:59 AM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
my system is running out soon. insulation bricks are made.
waste nylon is cheap. I tried plastic granules. Do you have tried nylon? nylon is polyethylene. nylon and plastic, while processing the second time they put into the calcite. Does this problem? please urgent information.
Thank you.
No Nylon is not Polyethylene. It can not be used.
It is not made from Oil stock, but from Dicarboxylic Acid and Diamine. It's Molecular Groups are Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen and Oxygen. In Pyrolysis, you will get a large quantity of Hydrogen Cyanide Gas from it.
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  #3787  
Old 08-20-2014, 07:32 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
I think I told WRONG. Waste bags I'm talking about.
https://www.google.com.tr/search?cli...86.L01RcEXmaLg
Yes the Plastic Bags can be used. They can be made from either PE and sometimes PP material, but there are also organic materials that make the Biodegradable Bags. They can be used OK as well.
The only negatives are the area that they take up for weight and it is best to either compact them or have them shredded. They also often are found to be quite dirty, because they tend to be used as Rubbish bags.
Sorry I don't understand your question about the Calcite.
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  #3788  
Old 08-20-2014, 08:35 PM
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sunilkm153 sunilkm153 is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
my system is running out soon. insulation bricks are made.
waste nylon is cheap. I tried plastic granules. Do you have tried nylon? nylon is polyethylene. nylon and plastic, while processing the second time they put into the calcite. Does this problem? please urgent information.
Thank you.
kedigen your system looking nice seems to be a good effort by fabricator
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  #3789  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:40 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
my system is running out soon. insulation bricks are made.
So how are you heating the Retort? and how will you control that heat.
Also, I can not see in your pictures, any means of heating the Reflux and other distillation vessels.
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  #3790  
Old 08-23-2014, 12:45 AM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
Thanks to everyone.
able to find plastic bags washed and compressed. There is no organic matter in.
When recycling plastic, because it was cheaper to put into the calcite. calcite rate is close to 5% to 45%. This does not apply to all the material. Does calcite problem?
retort and other parts of the image I had previously shared. During installation I'll share new pictures. I'll be using BEK. for heather.
BEK description for:
Ratiomatic / Proses Hava Is─▒tma Br├╝l├Ârleri | ├çukurova Is─▒ Sistemleri
Sorry Kedigen, I really am not understanding your comment about Calcite. Are you adding Calcite to the Plastic inside the Retort?

Calcite is another name given to Calcium Carbonate. CaCO3. Also known as Lime. It is not acidic, it is very much the opposite, being extremely Alkaline and will react with and neutralize Acids. I am not sure if Acid neutralization inside the Retort is the best place. You would have to continually add Calcite and that would result in a lot of ash in the bottom of the retort, requiring frequent cleaning.
Any Acid neutralization should be done further along the process and the best place is in the Bubbler.
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  #3791  
Old 08-26-2014, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheels View Post
Sorry Kedigen, I really am not understanding your comment about Calcite. Are you adding Calcite to the Plastic inside the Retort?

Calcite is another name given to Calcium Carbonate. CaCO3. Also known as Lime. It is not acidic, it is very much the opposite, being extremely Alkaline and will react with and neutralize Acids. I am not sure if Acid neutralization inside the Retort is the best place. You would have to continually add Calcite and that would result in a lot of ash in the bottom of the retort, requiring frequent cleaning.
Any Acid neutralization should be done further along the process and the best place is in the Bubbler.
exactly right bubbler is the most appropriate place to netralize acidic nature of oil produced by pyrolysis here continuously by checking pH you may add alkali to it
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  #3792  
Old 08-26-2014, 10:25 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by sunilkm153 View Post
exactly right bubbler is the most appropriate place to netralize acidic nature of oil produced by pyrolysis here continuously by checking pH you may add alkali to it
Although just to be clear, it won't be the oil passing through the bubbler, it will be the gas only. The Hydrocarbons will have been condensed out of the Gas before hand.

There is a process however, called "Hydro cracking" in which the Oil is cracked using high temp high pressure water or in some cases Steam at Super Sonic speed. It is a very superior way of cracking as it gives a very high level of control to what Hydrocarbon is produced. But it is at a level far exceeding all the backyard Amateur operations. Large scale Commercial operations tend to use the process and I imagine the Plant BBD works at would employ this kind of technology.
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  #3793  
Old 08-28-2014, 09:15 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hello.
One of our most experienced members - Asad, wanted me to post the link to his new blog as he is not able to post himself. Here is the link:
Pyrotech Oil

Hope you like it.
Jetijs
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  #3794  
Old 08-28-2014, 06:12 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hello.
One of our most experienced members - Asad, wanted me to post the link to his new blog as he is not able to post himself. Here is the link:
Pyrotech Oil

Hope you like it.
Jetijs
So does Asad have an actual operational Plant or is this just ideas on paper (or computer screen) that he is trying to promote for sale? Because there are several area's that concern me from just looking at the Pictures of his Design.
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  #3795  
Old 09-01-2014, 03:15 PM
rozier56 rozier56 is offline
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production rate

Wheels, what sort of production rates do you achieve through your plant?
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  #3796  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:37 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by rozier56 View Post
Wheels, what sort of production rates do you achieve through your plant?
The new Plant goes through it's first Test run end of this week or next week, so as yet, I am not really sure how it will perform. But with a test fire just a few days ago, I had plastic melting in the retort in about a minute. So it should run pretty quickly.
Today I am finishing off the new Scrubbing tower and fitting it into place and them just need to cover with Insulation and then connect the electrical/Control cabinet up.
I will post some Pics and let you know how it goes when it is ready to operate.
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  #3797  
Old 09-02-2014, 06:26 PM
Babataku Babataku is offline
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Originally Posted by wheels View Post
The new Plant goes through it's first Test run end of this week or next week, so as yet, I am not really sure how it will perform. But with a test fire just a few days ago, I had plastic melting in the retort in about a minute. So it should run pretty quickly.
Today I am finishing off the new Scrubbing tower and fitting it into place and them just need to cover with Insulation and then connect the electrical/Control cabinet up.
I will post some Pics and let you know how it goes when it is ready to operate.
Hi Wheels,

How big is your retort? And how many hours do you intend take to fully process a batch of plastics?

it seems you have a very huge source of heat to power your plant
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  #3798  
Old 09-02-2014, 07:42 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by Babataku View Post
Hi Wheels,

How big is your retort? And how many hours do you intend take to fully process a batch of plastics?

it seems you have a very huge source of heat to power your plant
Yes it is huge heat, but that is because I am expecting to expand the Plant over time as I get a handle on running it. Remember that it is not the Fuel that is of Key importance in this instance, but the elimination of the Toxic by products. So as I change one part, I may unexpectedly change some other part. Things like Contact time, temperatures and flow rates will all have some kind of impact on how various Chemicals react. Plus at some time in the near future, once I get good knowledge of rates, I want to fit a auto feed system to the retort. That will mean I will be able to ramp up the amount and speed of plastic being processed and hence will eventually be able to utilize that extra power. I see no point in Building some large and very expensive plant. Size does not have to equate to amount of Plastic processed. I want to keep the design small and affordable should I ever get to the point of being able to take my ideas further in a commercial design. As size doubles, costs increase exponentially. Plus smaller means less chance of something catastrophic occurring.
Actually, every single component in the Plant has been made so it can be easily changed out for upgrade. I have made the Main condensing tank larger than the other two. But should I find another Fraction filling it's condensing tank too fast, i can simply make a larger tank and swap it in. Same with Scrubber and Filter tower. If I want to make changes, they are easy to swap out and in.
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  #3799  
Old 09-07-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
furnace had to dig because of size. bricks are placed now. I'll share more photos soon. as in the first picture I found while researching something. Does anyone have information about it?
thanks
Hi kedigen
picture of spira reactor seems to be totally misleading about capacity utilization principally process shown in picture will work but reactor dimensions shown in picture are supposed to process not more than 70-80 kg/hr also there is no need for vaccum pump (wrong placement) as shown in picture
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  #3800  
Old 09-07-2014, 07:05 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by kedigen View Post
furnace had to dig because of size. bricks are placed now. I'll share more photos soon. as in the first picture I found while researching something. Does anyone have information about it?
thanks
There are many many drawings to be found on the Internet. Few ever make it to being a real machine though. This particular idea is a variation of the Auger or Screw design. I believe there are a couple of these designs, in various configurations, operating, but they also have limitations as well as advantages. Very early on, I explored a similar idea for the Ewaste process. the idea was that I could preheat PVC in the screw and then remove the Chlorine before the plastic then enters the main retort. But the metals required are very special and very expensive Stainless steels that are also very difficult to work with, adding to the cost even more.

You have to understand that Plastics produce Acids. Even PP and PE will have a small amount of Acid. Unless you can 100% ensure that your source Plastic is clean and pure and not even the smallest amount of PVC, ABS or PET can sneak in, then chances are you are going to have Acids. With the extreme Heat, even the smallest amount of Acid will create generous corrosion. You are going to need to factor in to your cost replacement of that vessel fairly often.
This is the reason why you see so many variations of designs in the drawings seen on the internet. People are trying to find more efficient, longer lasting and thus cheaper means of making fuels from Plastic.
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  #3801  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:59 AM
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kedigen, very nice work.
What is the fill between bricks and outer steel shell? Some kind of insulation?
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  #3802  
Old 09-11-2014, 07:03 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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thanks
fill material is a mixture of soil and perlite. fireclay and refractory concrete is used. I have new pictures today. catalyst box in the picture does not exist. What do you recommend as a catalyst?
A choice of catalyst depends on many factors and this comes back to the entire point of the earlier comments about building something like this when you don't have experience. You need to know what type of Fractions you are going to get as a main output and what kind of Fractions you actually want. No point in fractionating lighter weight fractions when it is slightly heavier ones you wanted in the first place. Then a Catalyst material chosen, based on the temperature it needs to operate at, the speed of the Gas passing through the Cat Vessel, does the Gas need to flow through the Catalyst Material or over it, How long will it work for before needing replacing, how easy to change it out, will it be cleaned and re used and so on.
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  #3803  
Old 09-18-2014, 03:04 PM
chacowako chacowako is offline
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Patent CN102559232A - Process method of removing odor of pyrolysis oil of waste rubber and waste ... - Google Patents

this seems to be a good catalyst. hope someone can test this out
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  #3804  
Old 09-18-2014, 04:47 PM
chacowako chacowako is offline
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I is it wise to have the condensed pyrolysis oil through a centrifuge? will it degrade the oil?

Also what is the best way to make sure your oil is clean and has no water?
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  #3805  
Old 09-18-2014, 06:33 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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I is it wise to have the condensed pyrolysis oil through a centrifuge? will it degrade the oil?

Also what is the best way to make sure your oil is clean and has no water?
A centrifuge will not degrade the oil a the only things it removes are solid particles of which you do not want anyway. The need to use a centrifuge depends on how clean the Fuel is as it comes through. The use of a Fuel Filter is essential, the Centrifuge not so important.
Removing water can be done several ways. Either by simply leaving the Fuel to settle for a few days, in which the water will drop to the bottom and they you can run off that water. Or you add a water absorbing material and allow that to soak up the water, then pour off the Fuel and filter it. The use of a really good Fuel Filter such as Racor, have water separators, but these Filters are expensive.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:42 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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This method does not affect the smell. It is quite possible that the use of the word Smell is a translation issue between Chinese and English. NaOH will neutralize Acids, but only when the Acids are in a liquid state and only if Acids are present anyway. PP and PE do not produce a great deal of Acids. The clay is then being used as a very fine filter and will take out a high degree of particulates, which will aid in creating a much clearer look fuel. However, it is a slow process and the Clay blocks up and needs replacing regularly. Multipass Centrifuge is a much better idea and is much faster, require far less down time during maintenance.
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  #3807  
Old 09-18-2014, 10:30 PM
wheels wheels is offline
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I should add, the NaOH is not a catalyst. A catalyst is something that brakes the Hydrocarbon chains. For Hydrocarbons, the best method is to use what is called a Solid Acid that has free positive Ions. NaOH is a very strong Alkaline, not an acid.
The smell produced from Pyrolysing Rubber materials, such as tyres, is a completely different thing again. It is usually the Sulphur compounds that cause a terrible smell with the Fuel.
If you try Pyrolysing Ewaste Plastics, you will get close to 100% Styrene which stinks, because it is an aromatic Hydrocarbon. You can not remove the odor from that. It is also a very dangerous plastic to vaporize because it creates Hydrogen Cyanide and Hydrogen Chloride which are both highly toxic and corrosive. It is best to stick with PP and PE plastics. Safer and easier to work with.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:10 AM
chacowako chacowako is offline
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Hi wheels can ordinary zeolite be used as catalyst I can get pure zeolite here for $0.25 per kilo?
Also I have huge access to industrial lime which is even cheaper the zeolite I read in the forums that you can add 2-5%? do you know its effects?

I would prefer to use industrial lime together with zeolite since its cheap here.
If i could opt out to use red clay I would because I would be the one to mine it which would be a pain.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:37 AM
wheels wheels is offline
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Originally Posted by chacowako View Post
Hi wheels can ordinary zeolite be used as catalyst I can get pure zeolite here for $0.25 per kilo?
Also I have huge access to industrial lime which is even cheaper the zeolite I read in the forums that you can add 2-5%? do you know its effects?

I would prefer to use industrial lime together with zeolite since its cheap here.
If i could opt out to use red clay I would because I would be the one to mine it which would be a pain.
Zeolite is the best choice. Although there are some 40 different kinds, the main make up is Alumino Silicate. One type has been found to be the best suited for cracking Oil, but the others will still work and are still better than most other materials. Zeolite is also used to remove Sulphur from Oil via a Catalytic process. But it's complex.
Do not add Calcium. That is an alkaline and won't work.
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  #3810  
Old 09-22-2014, 07:57 AM
wheels wheels is offline
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One point I forgot. Zeolite needs a little help to make it work efficiently. Firstly it needs to be Acid washed. Add Hydrochloric Acid (also known as Muriatic Acid, or Spirit of Salts) to the Zeolite and stir it around with a stick and then leave it for a few hrs. Then rinse it well with fresh water. Leave it to dry out in the Sun and then if you can, heat it in an Oven at a fairly high temp for a few hrs. This will drive off any moisture trapped inside it. It is then clean and dry and ready for use.
When you use it as a catalyst, it needs to be heated and the Vapor passed through it. This is where it starts getting complicated.
First thing you need to do is obtain an idea of what kind of fractions you are producing. The Fractions will vary for every design of pyrolysis plant out there. Temperatures, speed of gas flow, pipe length, Diameter and path and many other influences all have an affect on what takes place with cracking and reforming of the Hydrocarbons. So you need a sample for your particular Machine, not what others may get as a result.
Then you need to work out what it is that you actually want as a Specific Gravity and run trial and error tests with variations in quantity of Zeolite, temperature of vessel the Zeolite is housed in and so on. Alter things till you get the kind of output you want.
The SG of the hydrocarbon may not be the total answer though. Because when you crack Hydrocarbons, you get Alkenes and Alkanes, usually in a ratio of two to on e respectively. Basically one Long chain breaks into three. One medium and two shorter chains. The medium length one is an Alkane and the two shorter are Alkenes. Alkenes are better known as Olifins. These are unsaturated chains. Unsaturated means the chain has open ends and this makes them want to latch on to things. This can be good when they are used in Industry because that means they are very reactive. So you can make stuff with them. Such as Plastic, or Epoxides and so on. But they also can have bad reactions too. They can latch on to Oxygen, causing them to Oxidize. By the way, a Fuel stabilizer is a chemical that likes to lock onto those open ends and close them, so as Oxygen has nothing to lock to.
Alkanes, known as Paraffin's, are saturated Chains. They are closed chains so nothing else can bond to them, making them a stable Hydrocarbon.
For us backyarders, there is no easy way to know what kind of hydrocarbons you are actually getting, apart from things happening like maybe the resultant fuel solidifying to solid Paraffin when it cools, or the Fuel oxidizing and becoming very dark in colour as time goes on. Most especially when left in sunlight.
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