Cosmic Induction Generator by John Polakowski

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Old 12-17-2010, 08:55 AM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Generator with Lenz-less toroidal stator

Has anyone tried making a generator with a toroidal stator?
Generators and transformers with ... - Google Patent Search
(Beware, fig 1 in patent doc is prior art and not part of the invention)

I guess it separates the stator flux from the rotor flux and thus
minimize the Lenz-effect, reminds me of Thanes bi-toroid-transformer
with its separate flux-paths for primary and secondary.

/Hob
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:31 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hi Hob.
Looks good and straight forward, should be also rather easy to build
Thanks for posting that
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:08 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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Ummm yes Tesla did...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
Has anyone tried making a generator with a toroidal stator?
Generators and transformers with ... - Google Patent Search
(Beware, fig 1 in patent doc is prior art and not part of the invention)

I guess it separates the stator flux from the rotor flux and thus
minimize the Lenz-effect, reminds me of Thanes bi-toroid-transformer
with its separate flux-paths for primary and secondary.

/Hob

Man they will give patents to a billion people for the same concept. How can they do that when Tesla patent the idea already.

Link to patent from Tesla.

BEST AVAILABLE COP - Google Patent Search
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:16 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbignes5 View Post
Man they will give patents to a billion people for the same concept. How can they do that when Tesla patent the idea already.

Link to patent from Tesla.

BEST AVAILABLE COP - Google Patent Search
I should have recognized that, silly me...
and i was even revisiting that particular patent of Tesla just the other day
You are absolutely right!



/Hob
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:07 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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...well, if even Tesla came up with this solution it must be really worth while testing,
and two patents describing the same thing must make it easier to replicate, right?



/Hob
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:24 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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Yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilrehob View Post
...well, if even Tesla came up with this solution it must be really worth while testing,
and two patents describing the same thing must make it easier to replicate, right?



/Hob

Absolutely we should test this. I have been pounding the podium trying to get people to see that Tesla was more then the Tesla coil. His ideas are very relevant because he was an empirical experimenter/physicist/Mechanic. He learned by doing. I for one am gonna be doing my own experiments with this design including making his motor generator that self sustains and even runs optional accessories as well while maintaining the batteries or a swap bank of batteries. I have also just found out about the Edison iron nickel Battery which will be the battery banks that this motor/generator will run from.

We have had the answers all along but the powers to be pushed them into obscurity as usual. It's time to take back our innovations and improve on them. We have a lot of time to make up for not taking up the challenges of our brightest minds.

At the moment I am trying to design a working prototype of the motor generator of Tesla's. I am at the point that each part of the motor/generator should be in modules all hooked to the same shaft. These modules are exciter for the ac generator field / ac generator(synchronous capable when rotor coils are shorted) / Prime mover ( dual mode synchronous(run)/asynchronous(start)).

I know the exciter is a magneto that gets shuttled into the field coils of the ac generator part. Upon starting the generator is turned into a motor to bring it up to speed. Once it is up to speed the coils are un-shorted on the rotor of the generator and the motor or prime mover will be engaged by shorting the rotor coils of the motor. This puts it into self sustaining mode with excess for whatever you need to use. The rest is pulsed into the Edison Nickel Iron battery bank that is not being used to energize the motor and subsystems. Of course all this needs an excellent controller that can handle all of the operations of the motor/generator system, including the battery swapping functions.

I also believe that we should look into using vacuum tubes to control the generator and the electric production ans switching since they could handle much higher currents then our semiconductors. It should be also cheaper to use tubes instead of semiconductors of high amp control.

Last edited by Jbignes5 : 12-17-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:57 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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here is a rough sketch of what I am thinking..

For you to look at:



In this the patent has all the information about the connections for each module. The magneto on the left is the exciter in the patent. The generator is self explainable except in this case I have ran parallel rings to increase the capability of the generator. It should allow for us to add more rings or even take some away to change the output of the generator. The right hand side is a standard synchronous motor. I don't think it should be unshorted since that motor will only engage when the generator's rotor windings are un shorted after startup. I have not figured out that part yet.

The output will be tapped in between the generator rotor coils and the motor or prime mover field coils. The motor rotor coils should always be shorted upon themselves and creates a variable magnetic event that changes as the field coils energize up or down. I assume they should be of a heavy gauge maybe even the design of the Thane guy where there is a high voltage coil buried in the field coils or even the rotor coils of the motor or prime mover.

Tesla did a lot of work on the electric motors he created. He has several updates to the motors to facilitate better efficiency and power. I am still in the process of figuring out what is what. There are a lot of patents by Tesla on motors so it will take some time before I understand it all.

Last edited by Jbignes5 : 12-17-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:42 PM
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nilrehob nilrehob is offline
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Your picture makes me think a Bedini Window-motor would be perfect to add generator toroids to.
Care has to be taken on how to wind the coils though.

/Hob
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:54 AM
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elias elias is offline
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This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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I doubt this would be lenzless...But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elias View Post
This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.
Well with the information about burying the high voltage coil inside the high current coil of the motor it will negate lenz and speed up the motor while it is generating. Here is the reference video for that procedure:

YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel

Try to watch them all about the regenerative acceleration.
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:19 PM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elias View Post
This might not be a drag-less generator, but it might be worth a try. I tried it before, by using a toroidal transformer, and a spinning magnet with an electric motor. By drawing current from the transformer, I noticed significant drag on the rotating magnet. So I think we can safely say that Lenz doesn't go away with this config. But what I can't say yet, is that if the Lenz effect is being reduced by using this method.
For this to work your would need a toroid core that is made out of many washer shaped plates, but ordinary transformers are usually made by coiling a long strip of metal in a circle. You need to spin the magnetic field parallel to the plates and not perpendicular. Also ordinary transformer windings wont work, if you have 4 magnets, you can use 2 coils 180 degrees apart of each other, if you have 1 magnet, then only one coil can be used. and it should not be longer than 180 degree of an arc. If you used the transformer windings as they were originally on the transformer, I doubt something good would come out of it. Can you elaborate more on your setup?>
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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Video from 9 Years Ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant1 View Post
YouTube - bjusticeforever's Channel

This link goes to a new toroid generator design without drag or lenz effect. A freind and I are going to expand on the idea by putting 10 - 12 toroid coils in a circle and use the same flat stator with magnets around the outside edge.

Peter Lindemann has a new UTube vid describing how black sand is the best core material. Just mix it with expoxy and cast any size core. Should work good for bedini coil cores too. We live in an area where black sand will be easy to get.

YouTube - Dr. Peter Lindemann Speaks on Magnetite Core Material

Alan
Alan,

That clip is from my presentation to the KeelyNet Conference in 2001. I was referring to the work of Bill Muller. As it turns out, magnetic cores made from magnetite have some interesting properties, but they also have many drawbacks. First and foremost, if you make any, you must mix the epoxy with as much magnetite as you can get in it, and then let the epoxy set up with the material subjected to an extremely intense magnetic field, to pre-align all of the particles. If you don't do this, they are practically worthless. Even after this, they saturate at about 3000 Gauss. The one good quality they have is low eddy current losses and high switching speeds, so they are a reasonable, home-made substitute for a ferrite core.

Beyond this, I doubt if they have much use in power generation.

Also, Elias is correct. These toroidal structures work equally well as both motors and generators and so will NOT produce a "drag-less" generator.

Peter

Last edited by Peter Lindemann : 12-18-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:33 PM
wojwrobel wojwrobel is offline
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hello

with all respect to Mr Lindemann I dont think we need any other "new" material than soft iron !!

All we need is to make our core that will capture lenz force so it dont affect our passing magnet !!!

closed loop for trapping magnetic field , something like Thane Heins has in hes patents or this patent US2009200892

espacenet — Bibliographic data

cheers from poland
wojsciech
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Old 12-19-2010, 06:44 AM
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elias elias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
For this to work your would need a toroid core that is made out of many washer shaped plates, but ordinary transformers are usually made by coiling a long strip of metal in a circle. You need to spin the magnetic field parallel to the plates and not perpendicular. Also ordinary transformer windings wont work, if you have 4 magnets, you can use 2 coils 180 degrees apart of each other, if you have 1 magnet, then only one coil can be used. and it should not be longer than 180 degree of an arc. If you used the transformer windings as they were originally on the transformer, I doubt something good would come out of it. Can you elaborate more on your setup?>
Well, I used a hand made toroidal coil wound on a ferrite toroidal core. I tried to spin the magnet in every possible location I could find, but when I lit a lamp with the coil the RPM dropped and the current draw of the motor went up, so I abandoned the experiment.

So the only way I have found to eliminate the Lenz is to charge the capacitor by one leg of the coil, as Dr Stiffler has presented. Also I wonder if we can generate a ramp function by using the coil, and the particular conf of the rotor, and charge the capacitor without drawing much current from the coil, and dumping the capacitor every second or so.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:12 AM
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Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Hi Elias,
As far as I know, ferrite wont work, you need a material with high ability to absorb magnetic flux, such as mumetal for example. The core shouldn't saturate fully at any point or Mr Lenz will come to a visit.
Thanks for the info!
Jetijs
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:16 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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I think the problem really is not lenz.

Just like we have seen in Thane's videos it is the way you work with lenz. If you use it to work for you the more you draw on it the more it works for you.

Plus if anyone hasn't figured out the torridial coils use the magnetic field much differently then regular field coils. They do not emit the field. The field rotates within the core and the rotor follows that field. In fact that changes the very concept of an emitted field that normal field coils project from a point of view of going through the rotor to pushing the rotor from two bulges in the stator field cores.

The problem I see here is that the bulges are not where we think they are. They are where the field coils are not energized. Do an experiment where you try to feels the field of an energized torrid with an external magnet. I bet the only place you are gonna feel the fields are in the areas that the field coils are not energized.

Thane is using a synchronous motor in one of his experiments. The motor was not of a torrid design so it is entirely possible that this is the reason he is getting odd results. But I think he got the results because the high voltage cores were changing the frequency of the generated heavy current. since motors of that design rely on frequency that they sync to I bet this is the reason it was aiding the motor in speeding up.

Tesla was working on the same idea but inside of the motor itself. Some of his motors have a dual coils design. If you search for the patents you will see he was experimenting with different coil designs and the positions of the coil pairs. Some were stacked on top of the others and some were positioned in between the phases.

The curious thing is that he was also concerned with balanced weight between the coils although they had different surface area or turns.
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Old 12-19-2010, 04:31 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
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I am NOT Suggesting the use of Magnetite!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wojwrobel View Post
hello

with all respect to Mr Lindemann I dont think we need any other "new" material than soft iron !!

All we need is to make our core that will capture lenz force so it dont affect our passing magnet !!!

closed loop for trapping magnetic field , something like Thane Heins has in hes patents or this patent US2009200892

espacenet — Bibliographic data

cheers from poland
wojsciech
Wojsciech,

Sorry for the confusion, but I am NOT suggesting the use of Magnetite. That was being proposed by "Radiant1" (Alan) and I was trying to tell him that it won't work the way he is thinking about it.

For clarity, here is the statement of Lenz's Law:

"An induced electromotive force generates a current that induces a counter magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field generating the current."

This relates to what happens when there is a CHANGE in either magnetic flux or a CHANGE in currents. A change in either current or magnetic flux will induce a reciprocal action on the other.

I have never seen a situation using electro-magnetic coils and cores where this effect does not show up. The only place where I have seen this effect work FOR YOU is in the case of pulsed DC systems, when the currents are discontinued. If the coil is short-circuited upon discharge, all attempts of the magnetic field to collapse simply re-enforce the currents supporting the field.

This works best in extremely low impedance situations. The best example of this effect being put to good use is in Bob Teal's Magnipulsion Engine, where a very short energizing impulse is injected into the solenoids that can then pull on the iron cylinders for a protracted period of time as the magnetic fields decay slowly. This has been discussed in other threads and referred to as a "Lenz Clamp".

But Teal's machine is a motor, or more properly, an electro-magnetic engine. I know of no designs where this effect has been used in a generator situation.

Peter

Last edited by Peter Lindemann : 12-19-2010 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:22 PM
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In order to remove Lenz law from both motor and generator you need to understand how it pertains to both. A motor is a current device, and a generator is a voltage device. The motor is held back because of the generation of a reverse voltage, the generator requires force to turn because of the reverse motor function caused by current. In order to remove Lenz from the picture the motor needs to be run on pure current and the generator should produce pure voltage. Thus remove the generator from the motor and remove the motor from the generator. From there it's a matter of storing the high voltage from the generator then converting it to current for use in the motor.
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Last edited by dragon : 05-11-2011 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:14 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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hmmm...

Please refer to this mans experiments that have already been done.

YouTube - ThaneCHeins's Channel

Everyone says it can't be done yet he negates lenz's law and in fact uses it to speed up the rotor. It's all right there. Prime mover rotating a set of magnets in front of a generating coil. He uses lenz's law to get more speed out of the rotor by simply using a different sized winding buried inside the heavy current generator winding. I would assume the inner winding is the opposite direction or winding direction then the external winding. Although I don't know the particulars about the coils he designed or prototyped.

The answer is in those video's and yet not one comment on them. He is doing what you guys are talking about without modifying the prime mover.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:01 PM
penno64 penno64 is offline
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Hi Jb,

You will find he is using the two windings from a MOT - the primary & secondary.

Soon as I tidy my work space, I am going to try and replicate - though on a smaller scale.

Regards, Penno
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:13 PM
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Maybe use switchable ferrite core ?
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:27 AM
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kcarring kcarring is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbignes5 View Post
Man they will give patents to a billion people for the same concept. How can they do that when Tesla patent the idea already.[/url]

It's about 10% different in shape

Thanks for the links... interesting concepts for sure.
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