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  #31  
Old 11-08-2010, 09:05 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Originally Posted by sseti View Post
Did anyone noticed the same effect when cap + is disconected from the circuit?

What do you mean? can you draw a diagram?
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  #32  
Old 11-08-2010, 09:15 PM
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Also had put a cap 1F @ 5.5 instead of 9V battery, but voltage has been gone
down (slow but id does). I noticed best results with low volt caps and high uF (in my case 6,5V@2200uF) shown in light brightnes and current drawn
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  #33  
Old 11-08-2010, 09:31 PM
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sseti sseti is offline
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ibpointless2

Its your diagram, I just show how to disconect cap+


Hmmm?
how to upload picture?

instead of bat + going to cap + and than to led + , you yust connect bat + to led + and cap + leave in air.
I think that will do
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  #34  
Old 11-08-2010, 11:19 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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I had the cap connected to the + lead and holding the + of the LED with the same clip, while holding the neg side of the LED lead to the cap neg by hand I grabbed the neg side of the battery to connect it to the can and it lit right up. Ground connection was made through my body. Strange to see that low of voltage causes the same effect as connection to the can portion of the cap. Maybe an earth ground could be incorporated to remove the battery completely.
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  #35  
Old 11-08-2010, 11:22 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Originally Posted by sseti View Post
ibpointless2

Hmmm?
how to upload picture?

When you start a new Answer are above the Buttons for Font Styles and other.
At the right side (no14) you will find Insert Image, when you move your Mouse over.
Convert your Picture to Jpg to get a small File, and just upload it with it.


This Captret reminds me to the Capacitors what Tesla in his Patents show.
They got actually 3 Plates also, at our Caps is the Hull alloy also,
good enough, to store also Energy. I got some newer Caps with bigger size,
like 1600F160V and they got a plastic on top allready.
They do maybe know that there is Energy too.
About the Batteries it is hard to say, if they regain Capacity
or only spit some Energy out, what been pumped in.
Anyhow the chemistry from a Batterie seems is not really complete explored,
but for the Experts is it enough when they say, it did deplete.
Hopefully i got some time, and will see, if i can find a double Potential too.
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  #36  
Old 11-08-2010, 11:58 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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I've replaced the LED with a 10F 2.3 volt super cap and it is charging it very nicely. The captret is connected to a 9 volt because a AA put out too low of a voltage. The 9 volt battery has been holding at 8.44 volts since the start and the super cap went from .378 volts to .481 volts.

I'm going to let it run over night and then test it to see if the super cap will run a LED.

This makes me wonder if i can take the super cap thats charging and send that power back to the main 9 volt battery using the captret effect, and hope to see it self charge?
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  #37  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:39 AM
digitz digitz is offline
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Cool experience
I used a 1000uF 10V cap and another one 100uF 100V cap , the led is brighter with the 100V cap.
My 9v battery voltage went down from 7.27v to 6.92 , then came up to 6.97v

I am leaving it overnight, i give you voltage readings tomorrow.
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  #38  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:42 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Charging a super cap is not as exciting as the LED but tell me what you think about it? below is the diagram of the circuit to use a captret to charge a super cap.

Does anyone know a way to pulse the captret when it gets to a certain voltage?
Captret charging a super cap.jpg
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  #39  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:55 AM
miki02131 miki02131 is offline
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Originally Posted by broli View Post
This is one of the first things I measured. When measured stand alone it starts around 1M ohm and goes up in a few seconds out of range of the meter. If you let it rest for a bit it can start from 400k ohm and go out of range.

However when you have used it in the above mentioned circuit it starts out negative goes through zero and starts to rise and go out of range over quite a bit of time.

Also for a more accurate light intensity reading it's best to use a photodiode:
Measure Light Intensity using Photodiode : Low Cost USB DAQ
Your measurements suggest the behaviour of a dynamic impedance between the [o] and the other cap leads. This explains all the captret effects. The current is high at the begining as the junction impedance is low. In time, the junction impedance increases and the current drops while the voltage bounces slightly back up.

Also, the captret can be seen as a voltage to current source converter which allows for the use of extremely low voltage source to power the LEDs. Unfortunately, these are all normal circuit behaviour.

We can safely conclude there is no extraordinary effects in the captret. Sorry friends, time to move on.

Miki Out.
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  #40  
Old 11-09-2010, 12:59 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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The charging super cap is still interesting, its using small amount of power to charge a super cap. The 9 volt is still at 8.44 volts and the super cap keeps going up. Another thing i notice when playing with my control, a super cap directly plug up to another 9 volt battery is that the super cap will drain the 9 volt quickly and gets the battery warm.

The important thing to notice is that the captret charger doesn't get the battery warm or even hot! it stays cool and that is very important because heat is just wasted energy. The captret may charge the super cap slower but it doesn't waste energy with a form of heat and that might be the reason why we get such great voltage readings? Everything runs cool, even the capacitors and wires especially when you consider the high voltage we need to get things going. Usually you wouldn't use a 24 gauge wire with 24 volt batteries but i have and they don't get hot ( would not recommend doing this). The captret is cool, pun intended.
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  #41  
Old 11-09-2010, 01:15 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Originally Posted by miki02131 View Post
Your measurements suggest the behaviour of a dynamic impedance between the [o] and the other cap leads. This explains all the captret effects. The current is high at the begining as the junction impedance is low. In time, the junction impedance increases and the current drops while the voltage bounces slightly back up.

Also, the captret can be seen as a voltage to current source converter which allows for the use of extremely low voltage source to power the LEDs. Unfortunately, these are all normal circuit behaviour.

We can safely conclude there is no extraordinary effects in the captret. Sorry friends, time to move on.

Miki Out.


Whoa, calm down there captain bring down.

I never built this to power your house, i was looking to make circuits more efficient. I can make a normal capacitor into two capacitors. Plus this is something that people never seen before, so we can't fully "move on" until all is explored.

You can't tell me this video doesn't make you wonder? YouTube - Captret PROOF OF OVERUNITY
Two flashes for the price of one, does that not make you wonder?

We will never reach overunity if we keep using the century old math and techniques. That is why i did something different then what i was taught in the electronics textbooks, i gave a capacitor 3 leads instead of their two. Sometimes you just got to think outside of the box and forget what they taught and have a open mind because things change; take for example it was common knowledge that the world was flat centuries ago.

I can think of many possibilities with the captret. use it in a pulse motor, pulse the captret part first and then the capacitor part and you've made a pulse motor more powerful!
Use it in charge something while you have a load on it.
Put the captrets in series to run many LED's in series without worrying about the voltage needing to be doubled every time.


So come on and explore with us.
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2010, 01:39 AM
DrStiffler DrStiffler is offline
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Originally Posted by ibpointless2 View Post
Over at overunity.com i have been working on something i call the captret. Its a capacitor thats been modified to allow you to do things that the textbooks say you can't.

Captret - Capacitor and Electret

A simple video demo of me getting twice the Light from a LED for the price of only ONE charge.

YouTube - Captret PROOF OF OVERUNITY

Here is another video of the captret running a LED constantly.

YouTube - Captret LED Driver circuit


But the important thing to note is that when i'm using the "dead" 9 volt batteries the voltage goes down when first connected to the circuit but from there it goes up even though the LED is still connected as a load. The even more crazy part is that my "new" charged 9 volt batteries will drop when first connected to the circuit but keep slowly dropping, and this is what you would expect from any circuit but why does the dead batteries go up?
Sorry but this is not a new discovery. I worked with various configurations in 2008 and 2009. You can see some of the circuits at stiffler scientific.

http://67.76.235.52/e_seg01.asp
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  #43  
Old 11-09-2010, 03:31 AM
barbosi barbosi is offline
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Originally Posted by Joit View Post
This Captret reminds me to the Capacitors what Tesla in his Patents show.
They got actually 3 Plates also, ...
Could you please indicate the patents or any other document?

Thanks.
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  #44  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:41 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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Originally Posted by barbosi View Post
Could you please indicate the patents or any other document?

Thanks.

At a lot Patents
from him.
He even has Patents at Capacitors like No. 567818.
But this is not my Point, but charging one Plate positive and another negative,
and having a 3rd close, it may can charge the 3rd Plate also,
for the costs of 2.

I did actually think too its a current voltage Matter, the Relation from
used current and Voltage gain or loss looks like it is,
but lighting a led twice makes me think about it.
There can only help some practical Tests, as some smart Comments,
what is really going on.
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  #45  
Old 11-09-2010, 11:40 AM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Results so far from captret charging a super cap:

9 volt battery started out at 8.44 volts and now is up to 8.46 volts.

The charging super cap started out at .461 volts and now is up to .713 volts.
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  #46  
Old 11-09-2010, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ibpointless2 View Post
Results so far from captret charging a super cap:

9 volt battery started out at 8.44 volts and now is up to 8.46 volts.

The charging super cap started out at .461 volts and now is up to .713 volts.

And previous---------------

Does anyone know a way to pulse the captret when it gets to a certain voltage?
If the potential stored in the captret is within the 9V range, you may try the Esaki flasher circuit below (and adapt):
Simplest_LED_Flasher_Circuit

As you mentioned before, there are plenty of opportunities for experimentation. Some ideas come to mind:

1) Run time constant tests of supercap via captret using higher voltage battery configuration - (i.e. next time, hook up a 24V battery to your 10F supercap setup (dropping the connection from the supercap "o" to the battery "+" terminal))

2) Pulse a bifilar coil using an Esaki triggered captret, using the BEMF recharge the battery.

3) Increase the affect by running the several captrets (and loads) in parallel. This would be interesting as it appears the working battery recharges during operation

Lastly,

I think you may be on to something as this affect appears to exploit a "charge-by-induction/polarisation" component of the capacitor. Efficiently creating work by this affect seems to have been overlooked, but may be the missing link (esp. in the HV research). The fact that the terminal configuration of these capacitors are radial in construction is probably helping (look up Aspen notes on Asymmetrical Capacitors), and therefore shouldn't be dismissed.

Cheers,
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:19 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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Originally Posted by miki02131 View Post
Your measurements suggest the behaviour of a dynamic impedance between the [o] and the other cap leads. This explains all the captret effects. The current is high at the begining as the junction impedance is low. In time, the junction impedance increases and the current drops while the voltage bounces slightly back up.

Also, the captret can be seen as a voltage to current source converter which allows for the use of extremely low voltage source to power the LEDs. Unfortunately, these are all normal circuit behaviour.

We can safely conclude there is no extraordinary effects in the captret. Sorry friends, time to move on.

Miki Out.
You know what gets me about this post. It is the fact that he is saying nothing new lets move on. Whoa please stop saying there is nothing new here. They are charging a source and netting a load to run as well and gaining
charge on the capacitor and you say this is nothing new?

Yes these are normal parts but they are being used in a new novel way. Probably not new way but one that was never really explored on here. The good Doctor drops in and says heh I've done that already. Care to elaborate? At least put a link to the specific information instead of saying look for it on my site.

My advice is to completely explore this avenue till it is completely dead. In fact if you finally understand what is really going on here you could in fact make this effect more efficient and smaller as well.

Start to look at the values you are using and see if there is some kind of resonance you are creating in this setup. I would start in ratio's. Maybe there is a key here and you can find a way to increase your output. Changing the load sizes and type of load as well are avenues that can be explored.

If you think you have something here then by all means go and explore it.
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  #48  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:37 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jbignes5 View Post
You know what gets me about this post. It is the fact that he is saying nothing new lets move on. Whoa please stop saying there is nothing new here. They are charging a source and netting a load to run as well and gaining
charge on the capacitor and you say this is nothing new?

Yes these are normal parts but they are being used in a new novel way. Probably not new way but one that was never really explored on here. The good Doctor drops in and says heh I've done that already. Care to elaborate? At least put a link to the specific information instead of saying look for it on my site.

My advice is to completely explore this avenue till it is completely dead. In fact if you finally understand what is really going on here you could in fact make this effect more efficient and smaller as well.

Start to look at the values you are using and see if there is some kind of resonance you are creating in this setup. I would start in ratio's. Maybe there is a key here and you can find a way to increase your output. Changing the load sizes and type of load as well are avenues that can be explored.

If you think you have something here then by all means go and explore it.


Thank you, i completely agree!

We do need to explore this as much as we can, that is why i made it open source so that everyone can come in show what they got and to better the experiment! When you get people who bring it down and say that they did that and don't further the movement then we get nowhere. We can fine tune this thing and really make it sing. there are so many possibilities out there that we have not explored.

To further the experiment i drawn a diagram of a captret circuit that flashes a LED and sends the energy from the top to + into a coil and the back emf charges a battery. Its a little rough but it should get the point across. I believe with this we can make a more efficient pulsed bedini SSG motor, two pulses for the price of one?
Captret flasher back emf.jpg
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  #49  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:44 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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oh and for those who think that nothing new is coming in, nothing amazing is happening then listen up. My captret is still lighting a LED for over a week at a constant light with NO lost in battery power!

Why is that amazing because the LED should have stop within a few seconds, when a capacitor is fully charge it becomes a open circuit and the led cuts off. Try it yourself, put a LED in series with a capacitor and run with a battery, watch the LED get bright and then dim and then off. Running for over a week is amazing, but running at no loss is spectacular.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:36 PM
DrStiffler DrStiffler is offline
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Originally Posted by Jbignes5 View Post
You know what gets me about this post. It is the fact that he is saying nothing new lets move on. Whoa please stop saying there is nothing new here. They are charging a source and netting a load to run as well and gaining
charge on the capacitor and you say this is nothing new?

Yes these are normal parts but they are being used in a new novel way. Probably not new way but one that was never really explored on here. The good Doctor drops in and says heh I've done that already. Care to elaborate? At least put a link to the specific information instead of saying look for it on my site.

My advice is to completely explore this avenue till it is completely dead. In fact if you finally understand what is really going on here you could in fact make this effect more efficient and smaller as well.

Start to look at the values you are using and see if there is some kind of resonance you are creating in this setup. I would start in ratio's. Maybe there is a key here and you can find a way to increase your output. Changing the load sizes and type of load as well are avenues that can be explored.

If you think you have something here then by all means go and explore it.
@Jbignes5
So something crawled in your backside did it not?

If you would have put mouse in motion before mouth and clicked the link I provided you would go directly to the information.
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  #51  
Old 11-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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So far i have now measured the Capacitor,
connecting it to a 9V Block with 8,94V.

A 220F Capacitor charges to 8,95V,
decharging it over the can takes the half out of the Cap,
means he got then ~4,2V between + & -.
Trying the same with a 1600F Cap, the Potential between
Can and Plus is much lower, but it also depletes slower,
measured between + and -.
It seems like there is a connection between the - Leads and the can,
With a 22F Cap, the connection between the Can and Plus is better.

Now i did try to let the 220F with the Circuit run, + & Can at the Source,
and + and Minus at the Led.
It is actually a Voltage divider, because the Led lights to bright
directly connected to the Batterie, but over the Cap, it lights decent.
And for now, no Voltage drop at the 9V, and they dont have a big Capacity
actually, usual about 200-500mA, the Led consumes usual ~3,6 at ~30mA.
Could be, it is kind of a Voltage Pump, and i wanna let it run a while,
to see, how long it will survive.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:53 PM
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minoly minoly is offline
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Thank you, i completely agree!

We do need to explore this as much as we can, that is why i made it open source so that everyone can come in show what they got and to better the experiment! When you get people who bring it down and say that they did that and don't further the movement then we get nowhere. We can fine tune this thing and really make it sing. there are so many possibilities out there that we have not explored.

To further the experiment i drawn a diagram of a captret circuit that flashes a LED and sends the energy from the top to + into a coil and the back emf charges a battery. Its a little rough but it should get the point across. I believe with this we can make a more efficient pulsed bedini SSG motor, two pulses for the price of one?
Attachment 6850
That looks like a nice add on to the "negistor"
"http://www.cappels.org/dproj/simplest_LED_flasher/Simplest_LED_Flasher_Circuit.html"
I think one of JB's videos gets into the "negative transistor".
have you been able to charge a cap or battery w/ this pickup coil?
we had this little flasher going for a couple of months 2 years ago, our battery was to big to notice any loss, never thought to add a pick up coil.
Look forward to an update on your progress.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:00 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Joit View Post
So far i have now measured the Capacitor,
connecting it to a 9V Block with 8,94V.

A 220F Capacitor charges to 8,95V,
decharging it over the can takes the half out of the Cap,
means he got then ~4,2V between + & -.
Trying the same with a 1600F Cap, the Potential between
Can and Plus is much lower, but it also depletes slower,
measured between + and -.
It seems like there is a connection between the - Leads and the can,
With a 22F Cap, the connection between the Can and Plus is better.

Now i did try to let the 220F with the Circuit run, + & Can at the Source,
and + and Minus at the Led.
It is actually a Voltage divider, because the Led lights to bright
directly connected to the Batterie, but over the Cap, it lights decent.
And for now, no Voltage drop at the 9V, and they dont have a big Capacity
actually, usual about 200-500mA, the Led consumes usual ~3,6 at ~30mA.
Could be, it is kind of a Voltage Pump, and i wanna let it run a while,
to see, how long it will survive.


It should stay lit for a good amount of time, weeks, maybe months or years? It will get to a point where it will just stay there, running the LED at a constant light.

What do you mean by "voltage pump"?
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:05 PM
ibpointless2 ibpointless2 is offline
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That looks like a nice add on to the "negistor"
"http://www.cappels.org/dproj/simplest_LED_flasher/Simplest_LED_Flasher_Circuit.html"
I think one of JB's videos gets into the "negative transistor".
have you been able to charge a cap or battery w/ this pickup coil?
we had this little flasher going for a couple of months 2 years ago, our battery was to big to notice any loss, never thought to add a pick up coil.
Look forward to an update on your progress.


Where can i find JB"s videos on the negative transistor? Why didn't he use a zener diode, isn't it doing the same thing?

I haven't built it yet, i just wanted some feedback from others as to what they think. I'm also thinking about putting another coil before it gets to ground, for double the charging power.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:42 PM
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Where can i find JB"s videos on the negative transistor? Why didn't he use a zener diode, isn't it doing the same thing?

I haven't built it yet, i just wanted some feedback from others as to what they think. I'm also thinking about putting another coil before it gets to ground, for double the charging power.
The branch from the top of the captret "o" needs only to connect to the 2N2222 transistor and not the 12V source. From your diagram, the 12V source should only be charging the +/- terminals of the captret. You may want to increase the voltage of your supply to 24V if it's halved at the "o" terminal.

I think the Esaki effect has an advantage for these types of transistors as they have a better power rating (for surge current handling) instead of using a zener rated for the same voltage.

-As an aside, in earlier posts there have been some mention of a variable increase shown in resistance when trying to detect any leak current between "o" and the +/- terminals on the captret. Bear in mind that when intially charging any capacitor, you will have displacement current, with inversly proportional resistance (approaching infinity for an ideal capacitor).
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:43 PM
Joit Joit is offline
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Now i replaced the 220F to a 47F.
With the 220 it had a drop from about 0,001V every few seconds,
indeed not much, but it is.
Now the 47F dropped the Batterie back to 8,84V but now starting to charging up.
Means, no drop at the Voltage from the Batterie, but climbing Voltage there.

A Voltage Pump like, you take Energy from the Source out, place it into a Reservoire,
Take the half from it out, but charge it at the same time back to the Batterie.
And since the Cap only works at the half Voltage for the Led, it equals the Ammount of Energy,
what is taken out, used, but it its the same Ammount, what you do feed back.

Diodes usual work like Valves, when there is a certain Pressure on it,
it opens the Valve, and let Energy trough, like ~0,7V.
That is the Pressure about, what the Valve stays closed.
A Zehner works against Plus to Minus,
when there is a certain Voltage on it, to minus, like, 5V,
it starts opening, and let the Energy flow.
Here is may a better description.

Back to the Capacitors, i think, the size of the Capacitor depends
on what Amount of Energy you shot throught,
Since i use a 9V source, something about 50-100f may will match.
Now i ll let it run few hours, to see, what the Batterie will do at last.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Thanks for posting the link Dr. Stiffler... I remember seeing the small circuit as it was posted in the High voltage from thin air thread but never saw the whole paper.

I tried the "captret" as the input for the Sec 18 and it is absolutely amazing what that little circuit can do. Drawing 0.5ma and lighting 12 LED's very brightly with a 9 volt input.

I can see from your paper I have lots more experiments to do... Still haven't been successful with your last group of videos but haven't given up....
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Hi,

i left the circuit to run all night while asleep....12.68V....gave it a 9 hoiur rest, came home after work and the battery is still at 12.68..so doesnt appear to be one of those "phantom" charges....though it might still dissapear when a load is placeed on it....

re-connected the circuit...amps was 0.4mA..quickly gone down to 0.145mA.battery at 12.67V

going to try a few combinations of this & that...see what happens
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  #59  
Old 11-09-2010, 05:18 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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One thing to keep in mind when using a battery as the input... It would take close to 7000 hours to use 1 amp hour from it at that low of power draw. Even a weeks time may not show any difference in voltage change - there would probably be more internal losses than the energy your drawing from it. A better test might be to use a 1 farad cap as the power source this way the energy could be calculated and compared a little easier.

Voltage is a poor indicator of the batteries state of charge, it will consume amp/hours while maintaining voltage until it can no longer sustain voltage as it is depleted. There really isn't any way to calculate the actual charge in a battery.
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Last edited by dragon; 05-11-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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  #60  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:19 PM
Jbignes5 Jbignes5 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Sorry..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStiffler View Post
@Jbignes5
So something crawled in your backside did it not?

If you would have put mouse in motion before mouth and clicked the link I provided you would go directly to the information.
Listen I am very sorry Doctor. In my haste I did not see the link below your post because many many others have personal links there. Once you mentioned the link I quickly looked at it and saw what you were referring to. Like I said I am sorry.
The thing that separates the two is that one you were using a somewhat more complicated setup then IBpointless is. I guess it doesn't matter in the strict sense but I would think that the type of power either pulsing or even standing wave generator is a very different effects or outcomes.

Seeing that IB is not using any power modifications does bring to mind that there is something odd happening here and that it involves laying an ac signal over a dc component with no real device to do this (oscillator) besides a setup of two capacitors and a diode plus a static source of potential. I'll have to look at the circuit again but I think this goes beyond the scope of your device (sec).

Another interesting test would be to use the Avramenko's plug to see if the AC he thinks is there is actually a standing wave... Hmmm
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Last edited by Jbignes5; 11-09-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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