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  #121  
Old 07-06-2011, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
Yeah, I know these things need to be engineered correctly, but I have very limited time these days. I usually don't build "all out" until I see that there is something to be had. I'm sure I have missed some real gems that way, but I'm not funded nor have the man power to do everything right. Wouldn't it be nice to quit your day job and build/experiment on somebody else's dime...

I really appreciate all of the insight that you have given. You are a clear thinker amongst all of the chaos.

Dave

I hear ya.

My "lab" has once again been temporarily reduced to a card table, so is life.

I tend to put my all into ideas which I have really really thought out. 90 percent of what I do is proof of concept experiment. When I learn what I wanted to learn I move on.

For me its not so much having a free energy machine, as it is the fun of understanding the "how" of things.... Once this is accomplished the rest is cake as they say.

I think its fine that you guys are looking at the math of the instantaneous vs average, it is really good to defend a position on either side as it makes ya really work things out. Actually this prompted me to pick back up an old calculus text book and start brushing up! good fun!
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  #122  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverToGold View Post
Sure you can work it out with the basic technique you've described (more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to math), I am not saying you can't. But you're missing some important points as to why it's not as simple as you've calculated.

Average Power means you need to know the average current and that means you need to know the time constant also since you are only working from Q.

Let me ask you some fundamental questions since you are using what you believe to be the average power.

So what is your average current (dQ/dt) that you are going to use?

What is your average current when the cap increases?
What is your average current when the cap decreases?


You are aware that these are not the same values? The voltage changes are different. The average I is different also. Even though the Q is the same!

You also can't get the average current unless you know the voltage it's changing from and to where it's going to. So I ask you:

What voltage is it changing from when the cap increases? Also what voltage is it changing TO when the cap increases?
What voltage is it changing from when the cap decreases? Also what voltage is it changing TO when the cap decreases?


You have to know the above answer to both caps!

Do you now see why your technique as you've used it is not appropriate? You've simplified it too much that it's basically wrong.

Also, R is not just the R of the resistor, the R is the entire resistances in your loop. This includes the resistance through the tube. Without knowing exactly what R is, we don't even know the real time constant.

Another point in regards to time constant (ie RC).... what exactly is your C?? Is it the static C? Is it the variable C? If so, which one Cmax or Cmin? Or is it some combination there of? Easy to make a mistake here. This alone should show you why the system is not as simple as you've made it to be. The time constant is different when the cap is charging versus when it's discharging.

A small change in time constant and you get different energy results. You're off by 20% in the RC and you're off 20% in your results.

So unless you can really answer these question to yourself and really understand what is happening when these charges are shuttled back and forth, you can't really use the simple method you've suggested.

It could be done with more work as I've pointed out above but there is a simpler method that does not depend on average I or the time constant as long as it's a lot larger than 5RC and that's to just look at the energy before and after the system changes.

And regardless of which technique anyone use, there is one answer and whatever technique used should yield the same answer. Agreed?

I think looking at the energy and going through each step of the process will yield the easiest and most reliable answer. Which is what I've done.
This is more in line of how I was understanding the system. I understand that one RC time constant is going to be lower that the other. So long as the frequency of change is two multiplied by the largest 5*RC, you would still have a consistent average amperage because of the nature of the Cmax/Cmin dwell time being equal.

I am okay with everything in this last post.

However, this was the post that got me confused to begin with:
Quote:
If your systems parameters were really:

Vi = 7500 V
Cmax = 300 pF
Cmin = 10 pf
Co = 500 pF
f = 57 kHz

Your ideal output would be 5652 Watts.

I made some mistakes in my original calculations on my RC time constants, but they were not in the favor of more power. If you still believe the previous statement is correct, would you mind sharing your methods of calculation?

I'm glad most of this is being cleared up. I knew from the way that you post that you were intelligent.

Thanks

Dave
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  #123  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:34 PM
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Thanks Dave, I'm not that intelligent. I just put a lot of thought into this problem. I had the same thoughts as you originally and didn't understand why I was not understanding some things.

I applaud you for doing work and taking an interest in this also.

I am still quite surprised by the energy I calculated but if I went step by step and showed you how I got those values, I think you will be in agreement with me that is in the ball park.

The calculations will only work for sudden capacitive change systems like we have here. It will not work for a mechanical system like Chris Carson.

The problem with this is that I will have to do some drawing and somehow figure out how to get them on this post to make sure things are crystal clear.

Told you I'm not that smart
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  #124  
Old 07-09-2011, 07:04 PM
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This is the basic diagram of the circuit. There is a resistance in the tube as well as the load. This is important to consider since when the capacitor is changing, the amount of power through this circuit loop will transfer the power in proportion to the resistance's values.



The voltage source is assumed to be a high voltage sinusoidal AC signal. The diodes are there so that the tube lights up on the positive part of the cycle and OFF on the other part of the cycle. This is needed to allow time for the variable capacitance to completely change value.

Should look something like the clipped signal below but the signal should be something more like a 3kV max and running around 30 kHz.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg VPC 0.jpg (147.8 KB, 157 views)
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  #125  
Old 07-09-2011, 08:44 PM
7imix 7imix is offline
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Silvertogold, great post, thanks! I plan on building this very soon, once I get some parts.
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  #126  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:39 PM
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I actually wouldn't recommend anyone building this circuit until they've really gone through and gained a good understanding of how this thing should work. The reason being is that if you do, you probably won't get it "working", get frustrated and just think it's another "free energy" device dead end.

This circuit works on some pretty basic traditional electrical principles that are fundamental. There are no "radiant spikes", "scalar waves", "voodoo meteors from Mars" or some other non quantifiable mumbo-jumbo in this circuit.

But to get it working you've got to understand how it should operate from a traditional electrical component view. Because the design and operation of a working device takes some thought and time to do it right.

I have not built or tested this circuit in full because I don't have the parts to do it properly and from what little I have done with an actual build, I know that it needs lots of attention to extreme high voltages.

So understand the circuit fully before you try building it.

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Silvertogold, great post, thanks! I plan on building this very soon, once I get some parts.
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  #127  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:50 PM
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Some words of advice...

Gentlemen,

I just thought I'd give you some advice, so that your plasma tube capacitor experiments and not done in vain.

You need to ensure that your chosen gas-to-plasma conversion has 'enough free electrons available' for a given voltage. What I mean is, if, when you ignite your gas and produce the plasmas in your tubes, you need to make sure that that plasma has enough free electrons such that the plasma can PROPERLY act like a 'metal plate' FOR a desired VOLTAGE. For, if you don't have enough free electrons in your generated plasma, then you will have a limit to what VOLTAGE you can charge your setup to. I hope that makes sense.

The number of free electrons in an plasma tube is based on a number of factors, but to generalize, and keep things 'less boring' I shall provide the general equation to determine the correct Torr value that your tube need to be such that it has 'enough' free electrons to reach your desired operating voltages.

P=Pressure in Torr of desired gas(neon, argon, etc)
Er=dielectric constant
V=Voltage
a=thickness of dielectric
d=diameter of plasma tube

P=(1.73e-7*Er*V)/(a*d)

Knowing this, if your going for anything above even 500V across your 'plasma capacitor', your going to require at least a Torr of 25, at least. For more voltage, you'll need a much higher Torr value.

I decided to write this post because many are using fluorescents as their tubes, but the problem with this is the Torr values of fluorescents is VERY LOW and therefore, the voltages you'll be able to reach ultimately will not be what would be desired, and now you know why.

I can not take credit for all of the above, for it was JLN that gave me the design parameters from which to calculate the above.

I'd also like to mention, some are talking about running these solid state plasma capacitor models at 20khz and above, but I have heard that at 20khz and above that there is not enough time there for the plasma to even fully extinguish and as such, this would eliminate the possibility of the device to work. As such, and as even JLN mentioned, a desired operating frequency much lower than 20khz, ie. more near to 1khz is desireable.

Good job so far guys.

Tao
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  #128  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverToGold View Post
I actually wouldn't recommend anyone building this circuit until they've really gone through and gained a good understanding of how this thing should work. The reason being is that if you do, you probably won't get it "working", get frustrated and just think it's another "free energy" device dead end.

This circuit works on some pretty basic traditional electrical principles that are fundamental. There are no "radiant spikes", "scalar waves", "voodoo meteors from Mars" or some other non quantifiable mumbo-jumbo in this circuit.

But to get it working you've got to understand how it should operate from a traditional electrical component view. Because the design and operation of a working device takes some thought and time to do it right.

I have not built or tested this circuit in full because I don't have the parts to do it properly and from what little I have done with an actual build, I know that it needs lots of attention to extreme high voltages.

So understand the circuit fully before you try building it.
Absolutely! I could not agree more. The fundamental concept behind this system is what is interesting. To say it bluntly, 'I know its there, I just need to understand it well enough'.
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  #129  
Old 07-11-2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tao View Post
Gentlemen,

I just thought I'd give you some advice, so that your plasma tube capacitor experiments and not done in vain.

You need to ensure that your chosen gas-to-plasma conversion has 'enough free electrons available' for a given voltage. What I mean is, if, when you ignite your gas and produce the plasmas in your tubes, you need to make sure that that plasma has enough free electrons such that the plasma can PROPERLY act like a 'metal plate' FOR a desired VOLTAGE. For, if you don't have enough free electrons in your generated plasma, then you will have a limit to what VOLTAGE you can charge your setup to. I hope that makes sense.

The number of free electrons in an plasma tube is based on a number of factors, but to generalize, and keep things 'less boring' I shall provide the general equation to determine the correct Torr value that your tube need to be such that it has 'enough' free electrons to reach your desired operating voltages.

P=Pressure in Torr of desired gas(neon, argon, etc)
Er=dielectric constant
V=Voltage
a=thickness of dielectric
d=diameter of plasma tube

P=(1.73e-7*Er*V)/(a*d)

Knowing this, if your going for anything above even 500V across your 'plasma capacitor', your going to require at least a Torr of 25, at least. For more voltage, you'll need a much higher Torr value.

I decided to write this post because many are using fluorescents as their tubes, but the problem with this is the Torr values of fluorescents is VERY LOW and therefore, the voltages you'll be able to reach ultimately will not be what would be desired, and now you know why.

I can not take credit for all of the above, for it was JLN that gave me the design parameters from which to calculate the above.

I'd also like to mention, some are talking about running these solid state plasma capacitor models at 20khz and above, but I have heard that at 20khz and above that there is not enough time there for the plasma to even fully extinguish and as such, this would eliminate the possibility of the device to work. As such, and as even JLN mentioned, a desired operating frequency much lower than 20khz, ie. more near to 1khz is desireable.

Good job so far guys.

Tao
Great information! Thank you very much for the leg work. These design parameters are absolutely fundamental. For example, I have been designing an experiment to measure the quench time, but was looking for a ballpark, you might have saved me alot of time!
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  #130  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:08 AM
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Thanks for the post Tao.

I don't like just taking people's words for anything, so I looked a little into it and found this PDF. Looks like the 1000 Hz was taken from this line:

http://www.ece.vt.edu/ece3354/labs/ballast.pdf

"Magnetic ballasts are operated in 50/60Hz line frequency. Every half line cycle, they re-ignite the lamp and limit the lamp current. Although magnetic ballasts have the advantages of low cost and high reliability, there exist at least three fundamental performance limitations due to the low-frequency operation. First of all, they are usually large and heavy. Second, the time constant of the discharge lamps is around one millisecond, which is shorter than the half line period (8.3ms for 60Hz line cycle), so the arc extinguishes at line voltage zero crossing, and then is re-ignited. Figure 4 shows the measured voltage and current waveforms of an F40T12 lamp operating at 60 Hz."

A time constant of 1 ms means 1000 Hz.

I find Figure 5 on page 7 very interesting. The current goes to zero but the lamp is supposedly still ionized and on?

I also found this contradictory statement from someone that sounds like he knows a thing or two about these lamps.

Florescent lighting? - Page 2

"The time scale for changes in the electron density of a fluorescent lamp is far less than 100 usec, less than 10 usec under some conditions, so for all practical purposes a 50 Hz or 60 Hz power source has a fixed output voltage over a 100 usec time period."

This means frequencies as high as 100,000 Hz are possible.

From my own experience I used an LC meter connected to my variable cap while it was being lighted by a 30k Hz high voltage source. The meter samples at a rate of 10k Hz and was not able to get any sort of stable reading. It jumped wildly. To me that indicates that the capacitance was changing faster than the 10k Hz sampling.

So I question the limit of 1000 Hz being some real limit. One also has to take into account the effects of the variable capacitor plates on the electron density time constant. It may make it worse or better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tao View Post
Gentlemen,

I just thought I'd give you some advice, so that your plasma tube capacitor experiments and not done in vain.

You need to ensure that your chosen gas-to-plasma conversion has 'enough free electrons available' for a given voltage. What I mean is, if, when you ignite your gas and produce the plasmas in your tubes, you need to make sure that that plasma has enough free electrons such that the plasma can PROPERLY act like a 'metal plate' FOR a desired VOLTAGE. For, if you don't have enough free electrons in your generated plasma, then you will have a limit to what VOLTAGE you can charge your setup to. I hope that makes sense.

The number of free electrons in an plasma tube is based on a number of factors, but to generalize, and keep things 'less boring' I shall provide the general equation to determine the correct Torr value that your tube need to be such that it has 'enough' free electrons to reach your desired operating voltages.

P=Pressure in Torr of desired gas(neon, argon, etc)
Er=dielectric constant
V=Voltage
a=thickness of dielectric
d=diameter of plasma tube

P=(1.73e-7*Er*V)/(a*d)

Knowing this, if your going for anything above even 500V across your 'plasma capacitor', your going to require at least a Torr of 25, at least. For more voltage, you'll need a much higher Torr value.

I decided to write this post because many are using fluorescents as their tubes, but the problem with this is the Torr values of fluorescents is VERY LOW and therefore, the voltages you'll be able to reach ultimately will not be what would be desired, and now you know why.

I can not take credit for all of the above, for it was JLN that gave me the design parameters from which to calculate the above.

I'd also like to mention, some are talking about running these solid state plasma capacitor models at 20khz and above, but I have heard that at 20khz and above that there is not enough time there for the plasma to even fully extinguish and as such, this would eliminate the possibility of the device to work. As such, and as even JLN mentioned, a desired operating frequency much lower than 20khz, ie. more near to 1khz is desireable.

Good job so far guys.

Tao
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  #131  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:19 AM
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Edison famously said, "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Tesla's response, recalling the time he spent working for Edison, was, "If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety percent of his labor."

I truly recommend people go through some thought and look at the simple parallel capacitor connected through a load and do some simple calculations. Prove to yourself that this system works. Don't spend money and effort replicating this without KNOWING what you are doing before hand and this cost you about ZERO dollars to do.

All you need to understand this circuit is this:

1) Charge Q is conserved.
2) Energy is not conserved while the capacitance changes value.
3) Energy is conserves when the charges move from capacitor to capacitor.
4) Energy of a Capacitor = 0.5*C*V^2
5) Q=VC, V=Q/C

This is all you need to know to study this system and get a basic idea of how it works and why it works. This knowledge will allow you to get a system working and a rough estimate of how much power you could expect to generate.

Although we are talking about high voltage systems here, remember that Eric Dollard used a vibrator, some capacitors and some car batteries to power all the electrical needs of his car! Once you study this system and do the basic work, you will understand exactly what he was talking about and how he did it. He DID NOT directly use any high voltage sources. You don't need super high voltages to get this system "synthesizing" energy but you do need to do your homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
Absolutely! I could not agree more. The fundamental concept behind this system is what is interesting. To say it bluntly, 'I know its there, I just need to understand it well enough'.
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  #132  
Old 07-11-2011, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverToGold View Post
Edison famously said, "Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

Tesla's response, recalling the time he spent working for Edison, was, "If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search. I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety percent of his labor."

I truly recommend people go through some thought and look at the simple parallel capacitor connected through a load and do some simple calculations. Prove to yourself that this system works. Don't spend money and effort replicating this without KNOWING what you are doing before hand and this cost you about ZERO dollars to do.

All you need to understand this circuit is this:

1) Charge Q is conserved.
2) Energy is not conserved while the capacitance changes value.
3) Energy is conserves when the charges move from capacitor to capacitor.
4) Energy of a Capacitor = 0.5*C*V^2
5) Q=VC, V=Q/C

This is all you need to know to study this system and get a basic idea of how it works and why it works. This knowledge will allow you to get a system working and a rough estimate of how much power you could expect to generate.

Although we are talking about high voltage systems here, remember that Eric Dollard used a vibrator, some capacitors and some car batteries to power all the electrical needs of his car! Once you study this system and do the basic work, you will understand exactly what he was talking about and how he did it. He DID NOT directly use any high voltage sources. You don't need super high voltages to get this system "synthesizing" energy but you do need to do your homework!
I do not assume that the vibrator was causing a variation in capacitance! Very well could be an inductive component.

I have been exploring this more in depth and will start a thread on it soon when I have a good amount to share which is useful.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:42 PM
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Interesting, I guess that's a possibility.

Here's Eric's post on this.

"I have a device, built for the Army Air Corps during World War 2, A/N number PP-18/AR Power Converter, which self-sustains the electrical system in my car. It uses the same theory of operation as Chrisís device but involves a different mechanical implementation utilizing a vibrator, several capacitors and 12V and 24V batteries that are connected in parallel through the device, rendering them as one."

Eric clearly states that the caps are connected in parallel to the batteries and that it is based on the same theory as Chris's variable cap device.

As I've stated and seen in the equations, the voltage on the static cap (if the cap is large enough) does not vary very much (less than a volt in correctly designed systems) so it could easily be replaced with a battery. Delivering a current on one cycle and being recharged on the next.

I guess that power converter could be an inductive device but I don't think it's the parametric variance part of the circuit. I believe it's the load component that converts the power into a more useable form - hence the term "power converter". Also he explains that the parallel circuit is connected through this power converter, this places it exactly where the load should be.

One thing I don't think many people get that Eric pointed out was that the unit for current (Ampere) and the unit for voltage (Volts) are not comparable in size. A fairer scale representation is that 1000V is more equivalent to 1A. So people aren't use to working with high voltages but ok with high amperages by scale.

I think we are seeing this with the capacitance variable machines vs inductive variance machines. People don't know exactly how to work with these high voltages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
I do not assume that the vibrator was causing a variation in capacitance! Very well could be an inductive component.

I have been exploring this more in depth and will start a thread on it soon when I have a good amount to share which is useful.
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  #134  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:00 PM
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I look forward to seeing you post on this topic as usual.

I'm studying a little on this inductive variance machines as you've posted to this thread. Thanks for the information. I guess I should also review that video Eric and Peter did on that inductive machine, been a while since I saw it and that was before I had any idea about parametric variation and energy synthesis.

I wonder if Bedini's SSG machine is not just an inductive parametric machine? The energy is transfered from one battery to the next but as Bedini always said, the extra energy is in the turning wheel. Could that extra energy be conversion from the variable induction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
I do not assume that the vibrator was causing a variation in capacitance! Very well could be an inductive component.

I have been exploring this more in depth and will start a thread on it soon when I have a good amount to share which is useful.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:02 PM
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I think it doesn't have to be parametric in this sense even. Take a DC-DC converter for example. One coil when shorted convert large current low voltage into spike of high voltage low current.But what if we make a little twist and create some strange coil.Bifilar,trifilar, multimulti etc.
The only remaining aspect is to find a way to forward all spikes in one direction , store in capacitor and discharge again into the same coil and again and again as we have hit the barrier - everything is full of moving current in one direction ... The only our enemy is Lenz law and schematic thinking.

Think about Tesla and snow ball running down the hill.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:04 PM
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What we really need is : create one big magnet ! dipole
Then load is a friction in the path of magnetic current flow.Like magnet attached to fridge
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:45 AM
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I have studied the device dollard is describing. Parametric variation in this case seems to be caused by the vibrator activating components in different arrangements at a certain frequency. So each time the vibrator makes or breaks a circuit, there is variation. The question is how exactly -- it's not immediately obvious to me how exactly the vibrator works. The left vibrator seems to have two positions, but the right one seems to have two positions plus the ability to be completely disconnected.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverToGold View Post
One thing I don't think many people get that Eric pointed out was that the unit for current (Ampere) and the unit for voltage (Volts) are not comparable in size. A fairer scale representation is that 1000V is more equivalent to 1A. So people aren't use to working with high voltages but ok with high amperages by scale.

I think we are seeing this with the capacitance variable machines vs inductive variance machines. People don't know exactly how to work with these high voltages.
Thanks for bringing this up. watts = volts * amps, but if the scales are off then perhaps it would make more sense to work with 100 times more volts but 100 times less amps. It is the same number of watts.

It can be difficult working with high voltages because there are few off the shelf components, and surplus places and other cheap parts sources often have only low voltage stuff.

With transistors this is especially noticeable. 500 volts is about the max. The faster the variation better, too, which is why spark gaps work so well, but other devices can be found. Sidacs, varistor, tvs diodes, microwave diodes, etc. We actually have an abundance of parts available, they just have to carefully be searched out. Don Smith's devices are good example of solid state high voltage devices.

The biggest problem, really, is high voltage capacitors.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
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Too bad there is no activity on this thread. I looked a little into the magnetic device you outlined here and it is indeed very interesting.

I found out that this basic device as outlined in the Anderson patent below is actually in use and called a Flux Gate Magnetometer.



Being used as a magnetic sensor, it is more sensitive, more linear and more temperature stable than the typical Hall effect magnetometer.



Here is an interesting video on this device.

‪Flux Gate Magnetometer or Solid state Generator?‬‏ - YouTube

To quote from the guy in the video>

"The output Energy is entirely from the Magnets and does not abide by Faradays Law of Induction, (Faradays Equation predicts 3.45 and output was 8.56 v out). The Flux Gate Magnetometer is by far one of the most interesting devices I have worked on."
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:10 PM
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Too bad there is no activity on this thread. I looked a little into the magnetic device you outlined here and it is indeed very interesting.

I found out that this basic device as outlined in the Anderson patent below is actually in use and called a Flux Gate Magnetometer.



Being used as a magnetic sensor, it is more sensitive, more linear and more temperature stable than the typical Hall effect magnetometer.



Here is an interesting video on this device.

‪Flux Gate Magnetometer or Solid state Generator?‬‏ - YouTube

To quote from the guy in the video>

"The output Energy is entirely from the Magnets and does not abide by Faradays Law of Induction, (Faradays Equation predicts 3.45 and output was 8.56 v out). The Flux Gate Magnetometer is by far one of the most interesting devices I have worked on."
wow man small world. When I was playing with that exact setup, this was the first thing I noticed. I had a large magnet, about the size of a VHS tape, and and noticed that I could approach from feet (5 or more) away and "detect" the magnetic field. If you use a half wave rectifier on the output you can even detect polarity of the magnet.

I have been moving and not able to do much, but this will change very shortly. Thanks for keeping interested. I still maintain that this is one of the realms people should be paying attention to. So many possibilities.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:27 PM
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Well, I guess great minds think alike huh?

You're right, this is an amazing little device. I'm building my own core out of magnetite/resin so I haven't done anything with this yet. Just finished making the mold as we speak. If the magnetite works as Peter says, that would make a great improvement on this device.

In the video, that guy was using a sine wave and was seeing a current increase as he placed the magnets into place. Usually these are driven by square waves so we can limit the power we use. A much better approach. I also bet he wasn't even working anywhere near resonance or tuned it.

In Naudin's coverage, I noticed he never talked about the COP. Kind of funny (seeing how much he devoted to this project in web space) but the only place he talked about it was when he was comparing the magnetization energy versus the demagnetization energy... BUT they are both the output power and supposedly independent of the input. So what was the point of that?

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Originally Posted by Armagdn03 View Post
wow man small world. When I was playing with that exact setup, this was the first thing I noticed. I had a large magnet, about the size of a VHS tape, and and noticed that I could approach from feet (5 or more) away and "detect" the magnetic field. If you use a half wave rectifier on the output you can even detect polarity of the magnet.

I have been moving and not able to do much, but this will change very shortly. Thanks for keeping interested. I still maintain that this is one of the realms people should be paying attention to. So many possibilities.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:40 PM
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The problem is more in how people think, if I said 1 amp, people would be like "1 amp? Is that all??" But you start talking about say 300 V and people get scared. 300V is not even comparable to 1 amp really. Tesla coils are thousands of Volts and very little amperage usually. That is the realm of the dielectric versus the magnetic to butcher Eric's very concise delineation (sorry Eric).

Basically, you should learn how to make your own devices where you can't buy them.

Capacitors aren't a problem, if you've got the money, you can easily buy all the high voltage caps you want!

But try building a the high voltage variable capacitance device we're talking about here, you can't really just buy they regardless of how much money you have, you have to either build it yourself or pay someone else to make them for you. That's what I'm talking about.

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Thanks for bringing this up. watts = volts * amps, but if the scales are off then perhaps it would make more sense to work with 100 times more volts but 100 times less amps. It is the same number of watts.

It can be difficult working with high voltages because there are few off the shelf components, and surplus places and other cheap parts sources often have only low voltage stuff.

With transistors this is especially noticeable. 500 volts is about the max. The faster the variation better, too, which is why spark gaps work so well, but other devices can be found. Sidacs, varistor, tvs diodes, microwave diodes, etc. We actually have an abundance of parts available, they just have to carefully be searched out. Don Smith's devices are good example of solid state high voltage devices.

The biggest problem, really, is high voltage capacitors.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:37 PM
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just want to send this along.

‪Electrostatic Energy‬‏ - YouTube

‪Three Plate Capacitor‬‏ - YouTube

also i have some capacitive generators i have built as well and will post some pictures later.

i have not seen anyone here in the posts talk about locked charges yet so am assuming none of you have actually worked with these type of generators yet.
Martin
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:18 AM
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i have not seen anyone here in the posts talk about locked charges yet so am assuming none of you have actually worked with these type of generators yet.
Martin

I definitely have! Things like this are considered with the time constant calculations. Relaxation time of dielectrics also plays a role in this.

My goal in this forum is to share concept.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the video's Martin, beautiful machine you built.

I haven't built any mechanical electrostatic machines, mostly I'm looking into doing "soild-state" implementations right now but may build a mechanical one in the future to study.

What locked charges? Thanks.

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just want to send this along.

‪Electrostatic Energy‬‏ - YouTube

‪Three Plate Capacitor‬‏ - YouTube

also i have some capacitive generators i have built as well and will post some pictures later.

i have not seen anyone here in the posts talk about locked charges yet so am assuming none of you have actually worked with these type of generators yet.
Martin
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:08 PM
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if you have a highly insulated charge and in the case of the capacitive generators i made as long as the charge has somewhere to go it is transferred just fine but if the charge cannot move it will build tremendous tension and have had it stall a 3/4 hp motor dead in its tracks and shattered the generators drive shaft.
if any of you decide to work along these lines you will find allot of unusual effects i have been wanting to do a test with dielectrics and four plates and put a battery to two opposing plates and a meter to read current flow then connect a meter to the other two plates and move the dielectric from one set of plates to the next and see what occurs.
Martin
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:31 PM
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@ armagedon03
you have talked about charge and time constants but not actually locked charges that do not ever flow but merely influence charge effect in other structures it is difficult to explain for me but is a part of nature it has bothered me as to how to use this to any real benefit.
as the effects of it can cause the field to move and replicate a charge effect at a distance without an actual chare flow decreasing the overall power from any unit i have built and this is a problem it is often why capacitors will recharge after sitting for a period of time allowing the charge to come home.
i am sorry for the poor description but it is the best i can do right now.
Martin
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:42 AM
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nueview

What could you recommend for protecting capacitors from overcharge and explosion ? Something viable and highly protective, preventing circuit from running when protection device is broken.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:48 PM
nueview nueview is offline
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@boguslaw
i have used back to back diodes allowing the reverse bias of one diode to set the upper limit for the charging.
i would like to say at this point that a capacitor charged with magnetic current such as from a battery does not seem to be the same as charge from a static electric machine which appears to be more pure potential .
it reacts differently thus the terms charge and current i have spent allot of time looking for a magnetic form electrostatics and in to end have not been able to varify it to any degree of success at all.
so you may want to stick with batteries at first for any testing but some things will be harder to see like locked charges effect as it is more a static reaction.
Martin
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:37 PM
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Thanks, that sounds interesting but hard to really understand without a diagram to explain how that effect was seen.

How exactly is your capacitive generator configured to work? Is it the same type of generator as a variable capacitive generator that this thread is dedicated to? Or is it some other form of capacitive generator?

Looking at the capacitive generator you have in that video, it's not clear how it works or how it's wired. So I have no real idea what it really is.

I just have a hard time with vague statements that I can't visualize but thanks again for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nueview View Post
if you have a highly insulated charge and in the case of the capacitive generators i made as long as the charge has somewhere to go it is transferred just fine but if the charge cannot move it will build tremendous tension and have had it stall a 3/4 hp motor dead in its tracks and shattered the generators drive shaft.
if any of you decide to work along these lines you will find allot of unusual effects i have been wanting to do a test with dielectrics and four plates and put a battery to two opposing plates and a meter to read current flow then connect a meter to the other two plates and move the dielectric from one set of plates to the next and see what occurs.
Martin
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