Bedini SG - The Complete Advanced Handbook
AVAILBLE NOW: Bedini SG -
The Complete Advanced Handbook

2015 Energy Science & Technology Conference - New Date & New Location! New Schedule coming soon... Energy Conference
Energetic Forum  

Go Back   Energetic Forum > Energetic Forum Discussion > Renewable Energy
Homepage Energetic Science Ministries Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Renewable Energy Discussion on various alternative energy, renewable energy, & free energy technologies. Also any discussion about the environment, global warming, and other related topics are welcome here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:15 AM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Nvisser, That inductor does look very similar to what I have the two on the left of the picture. http://wv0ima.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pVZfkTIraZiQSj1cDSBl6HvmmO3j41ELEvPxICi_9OF14IvX 1j6paHLwVvLLWuFW6CE6QrMD0dOzyrOYZNUL51ztG_LNGJoyE/Scopeoutput%20003.JPG?psid=1 .

From what I can tell by the numbers they are only 42 microhenries which is a shame, they are pretty !

I have looked at that thread before, your setup looks pretty good to me I want one !

The board also has some large toroid transformers I think they are.
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_Ld-tGNDs-gs-QbflbyjbUK6HAROGSQ9iZSK1u8Lip65I69WgXyMuJDuRgVk12s xtlz6umVjpb65wHczT5h_eA/camera0006.JPG?psid=1

I'm not quite sure what fun things I should use them for.

I may need to build the whole circuit after all it could take my a while but it will be worth it I think. I have no knowledge of PIC controllers as yet.

Cheers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 11:34 AM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
No need to use a pic. Seamonkey's circuit will do the job and the frequency and pulse width are easy adjustable. You will need a scope to adjust the pulses and frequency though.
I will measure the core and wire size for you and also the number of turns tonight just to give you an idea. It is much easier if you have a inductance meter, but they don't come cheap.
One of Seamonkey's circuits is so that you can hook it permanently to the battery. It is powered by the battery and will keep it desulfated. It does use some of the battery power. I think it is a good idea to use with a normal solar charger that keeps the batteries charged.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Quote:
One of Seamonkey's circuits is so that you can hook it permanently to the battery. It is powered by the battery and will keep it desulfated. It does use some of the battery power. I think it is a good idea to use with a normal solar charger that keeps the batteries charged.
Yes I did notice that but I did not think of using it with a solar setup, sounds good. Now i'll have to make both.

The inductor I have has 2 layers of 14 turns each, so 28 turns or so, the wire is about 1.1, 1.2 mm diameter, the best my old eye's can tell anyway, I have trouble seeing shiny stuff up close it looks thicker, the core is only 32mm long.

I hope I have read and learned enough about MOSFETS and thier driving circuits from what Seamonkey and others have written for us, to be able to able to successfully use them now. It will be a breakthrough for me.

I learned today from a CT scan that I have damaged another two discs in my neck, so now I definately have time to spare for fun stuff like this.

nvisser thank you very much for the info and your help, it's people like you that give people like me the confidence to try these things.

I have a scope but it is only a cheapie, it gives a trace though, I will have a dig around in the shed for a meter with inductance there are a few there that might work.

Cheers

Oh and does the 470 uf cap need to be 400 volt or can it be a lesser voltage rated one ?

Last edited by Farmhand : 10-25-2010 at 12:26 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 01:10 PM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
The 470uF cap sits over the battery or input supply so a 25V will do.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:29 PM
7imix 7imix is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
No need to use a pic. Seamonkey's circuit will do the job and the frequency and pulse width are easy adjustable. You will need a scope to adjust the pulses and frequency though.
I will measure the core and wire size for you and also the number of turns tonight just to give you an idea. It is much easier if you have a inductance meter, but they don't come cheap.
One of Seamonkey's circuits is so that you can hook it permanently to the battery. It is powered by the battery and will keep it desulfated. It does use some of the battery power. I think it is a good idea to use with a normal solar charger that keeps the batteries charged.
Can you point me to which circuit you are talking about? I would like to build it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:40 PM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
Check post 21 of this thread
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:00 PM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
Farmhand
To give you an idea of my 250uH coil.
Ferrite core 38 x 10 mm
Wire size: 1.2mm diameter
3 layers of 25 turns (75 turns)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:20 PM
7imix 7imix is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Check post 21 of this thread
Thank you!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:17 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Quote:
Farmhand
To give you an idea of my 250uH coil.
Ferrite core 38 x 10 mm
Wire size: 1.2mm diameter
3 layers of 25 turns (75 turns)
Yes well that does indicate that my little inductors are in fact only 42 mh which I now am sure thats what the 420 means 42 with 0 - zero's if it said 421 that would be 420 mh I think, so ok I will buy some core's and go from there, are the shiny black core's silcone steel ?

So 250 mh seems like a good value, so I will replicate your coil.

The circuit that uses power from the battery it desufates seems a fair bit more involved than the other so i'll start with the easier one, with the external power source.

I have a 240 to 12v - 5 amp power supply (open board so needs enclosure) that came from an air conditioning control unit it also has 220v filtered outputs, was destined for the scrap heap but I replaced an 85k 1 watt resistor and now it works fine so that is what I will use to power it the output is 12v neat.

Thank you.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:21 AM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Then you're learning well as a result of your own
curiosity and experimentation!

The lead acid battery is an amazing device which
is capable of a very long life if treated with care.

Sulfation of the plates is a normal consequence of
battery discharge. When the battery is re-charged
most of the sulfation is restored to active plate
material however a small remnant of the sulfate
may remain in "pockets" of the plates.

To overcome this residual sulfation it was customary
to perform an "equalizing charge" periodically. This is
an Overvoltage Charge Cycle which will revert the
sulfation which is still fresh (amorphous) back into active
plate material and the "gassing" which occurs will "stir"
the electrolyte well in order to prevent "stratification."

In time this initially amorphous sulfate will change to
its stable crystalline form which cannot be "desulfated"
by normal charging voltages or even an equalizing
charge. As a result the battery will gradually lose its
capacity due to the increasing of the pockets of sulfation
which assume crystalline form.

The Desulfator Circuit applies to the battery being treated
very short (nanoSecond) pulses of very intense current at
a voltage which can rise to over 50 Volts on a 12 Volt battery.
This "radiant spike" of energy is capable of "desulfating" even
the crystallized stable form of sulfate and rejuvenating the
plates of the battery.

The individual spikes have a very high instantaneous power but
the average power is very low. Consequently, the battery
being treated will (should) not get hot to the touch.

Most desulfators operate at a relatively low frequency of from
1 to 5 KHz. At that range of frequencies the pulses are very
effective at desulfating and rejuvenating but will not have
sufficient power to "recharge" the battery.

Therefore, you will want to charge your battery in the "normal"
way and use the desulfator, either continuously or intermittently,
to keep the battery free of sulfation. The amount of power
needed for desulfation is low; generally less than 5 watts at the
very most. About 1 Watt is typical for even a large lead acid
battery.

The Inductor is the "workhorse" of the desulfator. It must have
a very low DC resistance (less than 0.2 Ohms - smaller is better)
and an inductance of from 100 to 500 microHenries. The inductor
can be hand made by winding heavy wire onto virtually any
magnetic core material (ferrite/powdered iron toroids, ferrite
rod, silicon steel "I" laminate bundle from an old transformer,
etc.) or it can be purchased. Any inductor with a current rating
of at least 2 Amperes will suffice.

I've attached diagrams for circuits which can be used to
"tune" the pulse width for maximum radiant spike output
from any inductor that you may desire to try.

Once the variable resistors have been "tweaked" for the
operation you desire then the values may be read with an
Ohmmeter and fixed resistors used in the final version of the
circuit. Different Inductors will require different resistance
values to get the "just right" pulse width for the best radiant
spike output with the least amount of input current.

When testing one of these circuits always have some sort of
"load" attached to the Inductor output to prevent damaging
the MosFet. A light bulb makes a good load and also will provide
a visual indication of Radiant Pulse strength. I often use a
12 Volt/ 300 mA automobile incandescent lamp.
Hi Seamonkey
What size battery can I desulfate with one such small unit with a 250Uh coil.
Will I have to install one such a unit on every say 100Ah battery or will one unit be enough on a bank of parallel batteries.
Could I leave it on permanently on a set of batteries charged by a solar regulator?
Thanks
Vissie
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:44 AM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Check this out (video below) today I finally got my solar cap dump charge pump working properly, I had to add a small oscillator to force the scr to commutate now it works a treat, in just a few hours dead battery indicator glass is now green.
Very promising. I've had it on a SS oscillator for three days at 5khz before doing this I wouldn't do it before if the battery is real bad like the one I have it started at .9 of a volt and the oscillator desufated it a bit first.

Best I can do for a vid is from my picture camera on my webpage. Better one later. Please watch or download. just hover mose to see options.

solar pump - Windows Live

I would rather explain in a better video I have already taken but my computer with dv connection is inoperable. i'm working on it and new youtube account. It appeared to work very well and the indicator lenz has gone from low charge (white) to battery good (green) even though the battery is only holding 4.5 volts. I'm very positive about this method of getting some charge in a dead battery.

The circuit is basically the basic SCR cap dumper with 55 watts of solar panels 75 000 uf of caps dumping 9 volts over battery voltage with an externally powered SS Bedini trifiler and small cap pulser 470uf, output to circuit between caps and battery to force Commutation.

I will make a drawing and post a better video soon time is tight.

Cheers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:35 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
In the video above the solar panel output hardly goes above 400-600Ma and the final output is pulses of 2 amps and more. When the solar panel output gets to 3 amps and above the pulsing output is quite radical, with pulses over 5 amps and very rapid. I thought there would be more interest. I suppose with no OU what is the point, In my opinion we should not seek Overunity. We should seek Unity. Ego is a dirty word to me. There seems to be some massive ego's around here that are blocking the real progress and complicating things more than necessary. If we persue practical goals the rewards will be many if we seek to get overunity from free energy we will just waste enormous amounts of time and energy. I fear time is short for learning and practical usefull things are needed by many .

Regards
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:29 PM
nvisser's Avatar
nvisser nvisser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to nvisser
I like your video! Waiting for your diagram.
There has been a few of this setups on the "Use for the Tesla switch" thread.
I am still working on different configurations to try and get the same results than John Bedini had on his Solar amplifiers.
I will test my last idea tomorrow and will post a video IF it proves to be good, otherwise I will just give up for now till after the conference.
At least if I learn something new at the conference about this solar amplifier I will know that I tried every last idea i could think of.
I have tried it with just a huge cap bank, With parallel to series caps, With series to parallel caps using a boost converter and now finally a mosfet voltage doubler.
You really need to try to attend this conference.

Last edited by nvisser : 10-26-2010 at 08:32 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Quote:
You really need to try to attend this conference.
Hi vissie, I would love to do that but with my bad neck it would be torture. I am terrified of flying on commecial planes as well, military planes I have no problem with, it's all about the maintenance. I do envy you that you can go, it would be real neat to attend.

As you probably can see what I do generally is try to replicate an effect using whatever means possible. In my opinion the effect is what is important and the results.

Quote:
I like your video! Waiting for your diagram.
Thats all the encouragement I needed, I will make a drawing today and this time I will try my best to make it neat. I will also photograph the boards which are rough looking because I am choping and changing to make the effect I want by trial and error. When I have a system that is fully adustable to my needs I will rebuild it piece by piece in a permanant style and package it all together in a large perspex box. I still have minor issues but I think this is a very potent arrangement and cost very little to build.

I think John Bedini's work with battery conditioning and charging is very important, for now if the grid goes down it is the best option to keep our food fresh and so on. This is important to me anyway, the grid power goes off here all the time, there are predicted a lot of CME's "coronal mass ejections" from the sun in the near future, I think the grids will be fried, sometime in the next few years. God help us all when it go's down.

Cheers Nvisser
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 05:16 AM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Diagram

Here it is, the oscillator can be powered from the caps but I prefer to power it from the battery bank that is there anyway that way I can use the oscillator output on it's own at night.

The oscillator needs to be trifiler with a bridge output I think, I also prefer to use it with it's own cap pulser with the SCR on the positive line but thats not necessary the spikes are probably better but i'm sook about spikes and panels.

The reason for the oscillator is to force the SCR to commutate which keeps the voltage of the caps up. The zener value depends on what you want the cap voltage to be, what the panels are capable of and the charging battery's voltage. example if the battery I want to charge is 12 v and the panels can only supply 19 v I could only use a 5 v zener or so if the charging battery is only 7 v i could use up to 11 v zener or so, my thoughts are a multipole rotary switch with several different zener values to choose from.

I'ts still working but the battery is quite resistant, when I first put it on the desufator the voltage went way up and down a few times then leveled out at 4.5 v and hasn't climbed much yet, no matter the method it will still take time I guess and there will be some that can't be restored.

Cheers

Here's a shot of the waveform from my new three transistor device same as the small schematic in the attachment.http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pSvdILRbdaljIoeOi2ES0smM14kYyiEjvMGznCxDmFdZ_drE exV-jPgrtUi1OhH3L0Z2R6FfhhC8VI8N7h4QkwQ/Solar%20pump%20004.JPG?psid=1

When I stretch out the horazontal gain there is a little bit of ringing there.

Last edited by Farmhand : 04-20-2013 at 02:26 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 08:29 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 842
Oscillator

Hi Farmhand interesting what you're doing. I have a joule thief running on a 7v 500ma to my bank separate from another panel which is giving around 11watts. After a drop in voltage for about 3 weeks now my bank is getting to back on charge again amazing. John Bedini said the truth that after several charges with radiant pulses internal resistance changes of batteries and batteries begin to be charged faster.
Thanks
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 09:30 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
G'day Guruji, I have some wire and stuff coming soon so I plan to make a joule thief to try, also a stingo, I would like to find a way to force the SCR to commutate without the oscillator, but knowing very little of electronics it's all discovery for me.

Quote:
John Bedini said the truth that after several charges with radiant pulses internal resistance changes of batteries and batteries begin to be charged faster.
Good to hear your bank is responding. I don't think a man as wise as John Bedini would invest so much time and effort into battery restoring and charging if he did not see it as very important.

Another thing I tried last night was what I think nvisser posted somewhere a little while ago, that is protection diodes for SG or SS Bedini transistors, I used 1n4148 ultra fast signal diodes (breakdown voltage 75 volts I think from memory) between collector and emmitter, anode to emitter cathode to collector, I think the idea is if there is a charging battery dissconnect or the battery is very bad any reflected spikes can be dissapated by the reverse conduction of the diode's in breakdown mode. It seems to work I notice on the scope that the unabsorbed spikes that were reaching 55 volts while connected to a battery are now reduced to 35 or so, I put one on my SSG as well, i won't know for sure until i get an accidental disconnect. The three transistor oscillator has already ruined the center transistor once from a disconnect, the mje3055's are only rated to 60 - 70 v. They are cheap but who wants to change them out all the time.

Cheers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:28 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Oh hehe I drew the zener back to front on the diagram, again , had to fix it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 06:17 AM
SeaMonkey SeaMonkey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dystopia Amerika
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Hi Seamonkey
What size battery can I desulfate with one such small unit with a 250Uh coil.
Will I have to install one such a unit on every say 100Ah battery or will one unit be enough on a bank of parallel batteries.
Could I leave it on permanently on a set of batteries charged by a solar regulator?
Thanks
Vissie
Very good questons Vissie.

One small desulfator will prove beneficial for even a
very large capacity lead acid battery. If the battery
is in relatively good condition to begin with then the
benefits will be near immediate. If the battery is
heavily sulfated then it will take some amount of time
to fully reverse it - the larger the capacity of the battery
the longer it will take.

Yes, the desulfator may be permanently installed across
a battery. When I do that I add a small toggle switch
to turn the pulses ON or OFF in order to provide some
control. I'll modify one of the diagrams to show how to
install such a switch for those who may want to include
it.

Desulfating batteries which are parallel connected isn't
as effective as dealing with individual batteries; the
battery/batteries that are in best condition will tend to
"hog" the pulses and prevent the batteries that need
them most from receiving full spike energy.

It is possible though to desulfate batteries which are
series connected.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 11:43 AM
penno64 penno64 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 163
Hi all,

Farmhand, how is it you are able to get positive goinig spikes in your waveforms.

All my stuff (stingo, bedini etc) gives me massive negative spikes and I am
never sure whether I a pumping back into batteries or caps the right thing.

Any help appreciated.

Kind Regards, Penno
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #81 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 12:34 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 842
Neon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmhand View Post
G'day Guruji, I have some wire and stuff coming soon so I plan to make a joule thief to try, also a stingo, I would like to find a way to force the SCR to commutate without the oscillator, but knowing very little of electronics it's all discovery for me.



Good to hear your bank is responding. I don't think a man as wise as John Bedini would invest so much time and effort into battery restoring and charging if he did not see it as very important.

Another thing I tried last night was what I think nvisser posted somewhere a little while ago, that is protection diodes for SG or SS Bedini transistors, I used 1n4148 ultra fast signal diodes (breakdown voltage 75 volts I think from memory) between collector and emmitter, anode to emitter cathode to collector, I think the idea is if there is a charging battery dissconnect or the battery is very bad any reflected spikes can be dissapated by the reverse conduction of the diode's in breakdown mode. It seems to work I notice on the scope that the unabsorbed spikes that were reaching 55 volts while connected to a battery are now reduced to 35 or so, I put one on my SSG as well, i won't know for sure until i get an accidental disconnect. The three transistor oscillator has already ruined the center transistor once from a disconnect, the mje3055's are only rated to 60 - 70 v. They are cheap but who wants to change them out all the time.

Cheers
Hi Farmhand I am an amatuer in electronics too but with others help and thanks to this forum I managed to build 3 solid state bedini's ;JT's and other devices.
Regarding the problem that you were telling why don't you do a neon with the Collector and Emitter of every transistor as bedini motors for transistor protection?
Thanks
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 12:44 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Quote:
Regarding the problem that you were telling why don't you do a neon with the Collector and Emitter of every transistor as bedini motors for transistor protection?
I do use neons though on my bike wheel it doesn't seem to help much, it might be the dodgy neons i'm using or that I run it on 24 v, also if the wheel is started with no output bat the pulses are very strong low frequency, on the SS I only have one for three transistors on the output bus. Diodes are cheaper too. But I did order 30 a couple of days ago NE 2's they come next week.

Ta.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #83 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 03:15 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Hi penno64,

Quote:
Farmhand, how is it you are able to get positive goinig spikes in your waveforms.
I'm not sure, I did get some negative spikes on my mini three pole but it did charge prety good the negative spikes seemed to show up with a lot of base resistance. on my SS setup I have a 1k fixed resistor on the bases and a pot 5k.

Hope thats a help I missed your post before, so sorry. Glad to answer more if I can.

Regards.

P.S. Are these the type you mean kind of, the lower oscilation around the supply voltage? http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1peWr0mE1c_mX7a5iARZnav2iXnzP4b8ekvgiesIVqHEwn6rj iZo_OeOFnEva7ghLsPrw-GnLvQygTrSMG_a-nnQ/camera0003.JPG?psid=1

Or this one may show better what I was getting.http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1phUembm2SlYJprvC6UZvINYh7QUqbtvfeY82J4vOWlnQUJSr DrpYSH0iZYaP7HyX-pxGtZJdgabfK9DdDiO2bUg/camera0001.JPG?psid=1

Last edited by Farmhand : 10-28-2010 at 03:22 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 03:42 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Quote:
All my stuff (stingo, bedini etc) gives me massive negative spikes and I am
never sure whether I a pumping back into batteries or caps the right thing.
The only problem I could see with the negative spikes is they may not pass the output diode if you have one. Not sure. maybe someone will clear that up I think i read that somewhere. What are you powering the device's from ? if a wall power supply try adding a 4000 uf 25v or similar capacitor to the power supply output. If a battery how was it charged ?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #85 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 08:30 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 842
Farmhand circuit

Hi Farmhand if one uses other normal diodes to that circuit would be ok? About those Caps did you find that would be better to use with solar panels?
Another thing if I us a JT instead of that oscillator would work?
Thanks
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2010, 09:09 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Hi Guruji,

Quote:
Hi Farmhand if one uses other normal diodes to that circuit would be ok? About those Caps did you find that would be better to use with solar panels?
Another thing if I us a JT instead of that oscillator would work?
Thanks
Yeah any suitable diode's would be fine I just labeled what I used.

The same goes with the caps I found that up to a point the more capacitance the better , I used Samsung 15000 uf 35 WV, A lesser cap value would still work I think, just that the pulses would be faster and not quite so powerful it kinda depends on what you want, battery size, panel size and dump voltage. Just one cap works good.

Yes I think a Joule thief will work, I havn't tried it yet but I will it should work the same I imagine, anything that will pull holes in the supply line will work.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...N_3.JPG?psid=1

This is what a solid state oscilator does to the supply line, thats what causes the SCR to commutate. It can also trigger an SSG or SG to work without the rotor, here is a shot of the waveform from an SSG triggered by the supply line fluctuations or (holes) I call it "supply line triggering", it's very handy and also a pain sometimes.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...plt.JPG?psid=1

Please don't hesitate to ask me to clarify something, i will if I can.

Cheers

One thing I should clarify is that in the video the switch I was switching was to turn the oscillator off and on, not to switch the zener in and out. If the zener is switched out then in again the oscillator has to be turned off and on again to restart the cap dumping proper. I think I will refer to this method of pulsing a battery as "Current Washing" ; )

Last edited by Farmhand : 10-28-2010 at 09:45 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #87 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 12:14 AM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Pulling my hair out trying to work out how to get video from my video camera to my computer without a DV/firewire connection, hopefully my windows 7 disc will turn up today. %@*&@#$&*> arrrgg. i would like to make a better video to show a visual of how I have it set up. I'll have to use the picture camera video function, but the quality is awefull.

Somehow I think 55 watts is too much for this bad battery, it makes some funny noises at full power. The battery is now holding 6.5 volts when not under charge, so it's working.

I'm not game to leave it on solar full power all day, so I'll only do it for a couple of hours at morning and afternoon on part power till I have time to change it to only 20 watts of panels. I'll put it on the triple tranny Bedini during the middle of the day and at night.

My SCR (BT151)is only rated to 4 amperes as well I think and the pulses go over 5 amps. I have a 25 amp SCR on the way.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 07:33 AM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
erfinder wrote,

Quote:
.....what I have found that works and works really really well is when you modify the trigger circuit, contrary to popular belief the trigger circuit has an extremely large influence on the "quality" of the kickback produced by the power strand....I'm not ready to disclose how I modified my trigger circuit, but I do recommend that anyone with a tad bit of interest in this circuit try modifying this part of the circuit....tip....modify in this case means adding something that wasn't there before....it could be as simple as adding a single diode in the proper place....

Don't take this as a comment thats not backed up by trials....just look at the SG circuit, you know what will happen if you remove the base resistance, or if the base to emitter diode is removed....simple changes can net big changes in performance of the circuit....positive or negative....
I'm gonna take a stab at what I think this person could be talking about.

What would happen if I placed a 1n4007 diode between the base coil negative and the collector output bus ?

Surely there is some BEMF energy there to collect and if so it should improve the performance of the base circuit .

Any thoughts on that anyone ? I will try it tonight.

Cheers.

I've modified the attached drawing I found to reflect the changes i'll try, diode in red.

Well tried it and nothing happened I couldn't make any difference to the trigger with a diode, though I didn't put it in series at all, but I give up on that it works good enough for me as is.

Last edited by Farmhand : 05-27-2012 at 01:18 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 12:22 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 842
Caps

Farmhand those caps are charging from the solar panel or the oscillator?
I am trying to understand your circuit.
Thanks for your help.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
  #90 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2010, 02:17 PM
Farmhand's Avatar
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,359
Yeah they are charging from the solar panels, without the oscillator running the caps will fill to the battery voltage 6.4 v for me + zener voltage 9.1 v for me + gate trigger voltage 1 or 2 v + 1n5408 voltage drop .6 v, all up about 18 volts, the SCR will then trigger and dump the caps but it will keep conducting and the cap voltage wont rise back up to the same level again, it stays only one or two volts above the battery and no pulsing.

So the first diode after the panels isolates the panels from the caps and the second diode isolates the caps from the oscillator output so that the oscillator out put goes to the battery basically, So when the oscillator is switched on while the circuit is already operating it forces the SCR to switch off by its pulses which then allows the caps to refill to the correct voltage of 18 volts before the SCR is triggered again. And the cycle repeats which gives pulses of a relative strength as fast as the panels can fill the caps.

When the oscillator is switched off, the circuit will charge the battery normally, with the caps a couple of volts above the battery voltage and to keep them charging in low light the zener should be jumpered out so the scr triggers initially at only a couple of volts above the battery voltage, in very low light and at dawn and dusk it pulses a weaker pulse by itself because the caps fill so slowly.

I have powered the oscillator from the caps it does work. I did stipulate in the drawing it should be a trifiler wound coil on the oscillator because a bedini bifiler oscillator has two positives for the output. A trifiler has a 0v and a Positive from the Bridge rectifier.

If you use a Bedini bifiler or similar with two positives on the output you can power it from the caps and don't worry about the negative output wire just connect the positive output wire to the positive of the circuit after the second diode. Its important not to connect the two positives of a bifiler output.

Hope i didn't waffle on too much, and answered your question.

My new operating system has arrived so will take me an hour or so to install it before i can return.

Cheers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Yahoo Bookmark this Post! share on MyspaceShare on FacebookTweet this thread
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
2007-2014 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved