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  #1  
Old 07-26-2010, 06:37 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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PEREPITEIA thane c heins generator replication

It has come to my attention that someone has written an article stating a theory about how the device is said to operate. The entire basis of that theory is about the generator needing an AC prime mover to operate. I have replicated this device to an extent that it accelerates under load and have always used a DC motor for powering the disk of magnets. So don't let someone discourage an attempt to replicate based on a theory rather that experience, because that is what many of us are here to do is disprove long held scientific theories. Otherwise our machines could never work.

will post pics and more info later today

jake
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:39 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Thanks for starting this thread Jake.
As far as I can tell from his videos, the prime mover just needs to turn the wheel. Who cares what type it is so long as it can turn the wheel fast enough.
I look forward to seeing what you've done.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:06 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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I found the following on PESwiki:
Quote:
On Feb. 4, 2008, Tyler Hamilton of Clean Break offered the following synopsis [Hamilton is a columnist for the Toronto Star]:
He takes an induction motor and connects its steel draftshaft to a steel rotor that is lined with small circular magnets. Opposite the rotor is a wire coil that generates electricity as the magnets on the rotor spin past it. When he applies a load to the coil, like a lightbulb, it increases the magnetic field around the coil. This field would normally create magnetic friction (Back EMF) against the approaching magnets on the rotor, causing the rotor to slow down. But because the rotor and the driveshaft are both steel, they conduct the coil's electromagnetic field and direct it to the heart of the induction motor. The magnetic friction that would normally be in the air-gap between the rotor magnets and the coil has now been harnessed inside the induction motor, boosting the motor's existing magnetic fields that are used to spin the draftshaft.

As more load is put on the coil, a larger magnetic field is created and directed to the induction motor, making the motor go faster. This creates a positive feedback loop as the load on the coil increases.
The guy who wrote the article works for a newspaper, so he doesn't have much credibility to start with, and he doesn't gain any with his analysis. Heins explained in one of his videos that his coils went from being primarily inductive to capacitive at a certain speed, which has to do with the frequency of the passing magnets. He said that was why they gave a boost to the prime mover. He even demonstrated that at a lower speed the load on those same coils would put a drag on the PM.

Ted
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:22 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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get ya started

here are the two main parts, 10inch saw blade(would suggest welding steel tube onto blade instead of angle L iron), 1in X 1/2in N42 magnets, spool: 2.15inch inner width, 1inch core diameter, weight: 15.14oz, 49ohms, wire: 0.015inch with coating (don't remmber 24 or 26 AWG) 1inch dia. standard(cheap) bolt that my dad cut the edges off of the head

total cost: about $55

magnets from: https://www.magnet4less.com think they have good prices

this should get people started replicating
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File Type: jpg 105_0829.JPG (166.8 KB, 96 views)
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:45 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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My experience

if i remmber correctly, I was only able to get out about 6-7 watts from this coil. I wrote thane and he told me to build another coil with 22AWG wire for higher output. I calculated the resistance/foot of his better coil, and I would need about 8 pounds, that is about $80 from my supplier which is a local electric motor repair shop. So I would suggest building one of his type if you are starting to replicate, learn from my design and save money.

Important info! Please read.

From what I have noticed, there is "NO" counter force made by taking electricity from the coil. There is however a counter force caused by the magnetic drag of the steel/iron core(large bolt in my case) this is proven because in my tests the motor does draw more current when the core is in front of the rotor with the coil "DISCONNECTED" than when it is not near the rotor at all. When the core is close and the coil is connected(producing usable electricity) the rotor does speed up(accelerate). So literally the drag of the core is reduced somehow by the field of the coil being connected. This effect increases with more energy being taken from the coil. In summary, if I make the larger coil(7-8lbs 22AWg 60ohms) which extracts more electricity, while using the same core(the only source of drag) it should reduce the core drag more and produce more output in watts.

sorry for the lengthy explaination, it's a lot to comprehend.

jake
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:05 PM
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Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Seems to me there better and cheaper ways to make this same effect.

If you build a coil with a IRON core. Prior to rapping You place 2 magnets (north and south) on the iron where the North magnet would facing the end of the coil that will be wound North and the South facing the south end of the coil. Then you heat it a bit, with torch or Magnifying glass and the sun. (laid out all day).
Then you wined the coil. Build your rotor, with all the PM's facing the same direction and the space between them being equal.

Then run the thing.

What happen on the rotor is the equivalent to a NSNSNS approach. Because of the curved field.
The coil further supplements this as it is fluxed its want to return to it original pole. Between the rotor and the space the magnets you generate alot of potential at little cost.
But pull one north magnet past and the next is so attracted iron (because it is precharged) you no longer have an effect from the field created by the wire. It gets nulled out. It contributes to an anti Lenz effect.

Not only does it in generators but motors too.

From reading what I have read about his specific effect I would almost be willing to say his coils at some point become premagnetized to the point they perform this way. But there is no mention of it even from the skeptics.
So who knows.

Matt
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:44 AM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Thanks for the info Jake. Is there a critical spacing requirement for the magnets? Are the polarities NSNSNS?
I've been using large, high inductance coils in my motors, which are similar to what he recommends for the generator coils. They work unusually well and are very efficient.

Ted
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:23 AM
EthelAether EthelAether is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lespaul109 View Post
It has come to my attention that someone has written an article stating a theory about how the device is said to operate.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'operate'.. If you mean 'what makes it go', that's one thing. But if you mean 'what causes it to perform OU', then that's bollocks - because the Heinz device has never been shown to produce more out than in.

Quote:
because that is what many of us are here to do is disprove long held scientific theories.
This might sound pedantic, but it's not. Scientific theories cannot be disproved in the common vernacular sense, as they were never proved in the first place. A theory (or parts thereof) can only be evaluated based upon the weight of evidence that supports or defies (falsifies) the predictions of the theory.

When a significant body of evidence exists that supports the contentions of a theory, the theory can be granted currency or even be held as prevailing - but never, ever proven.

The important point here, is that you cannot disprove something that was never held to be proved. You can only accumulate evidence that challenges the current state of the particular theory du jour - so don't expect that a single, anomalous result would ever be construed as smashing a longstanding and respected theory - especially if that theory is perfectly useful in 99.99% of all cases where it is put to work.

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Otherwise our machines could never work.
Which machines are these?
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:42 AM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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there doesn't seem to be a spacing requirement, they are nsnsns to make the sine wave
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:48 AM
EthelAether EthelAether is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lespaul109 View Post
there doesn't seem to be a spacing requirement, they are nsnsns to make the sine wave
Hey les, just to be clear on this point...

Even if they were all SSSSSS or NNNNNN they would still produce an AC sine output.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:45 AM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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I am aware that thane never claimed OU. Like him I say, there must be something here because not one mass produced generator accelerates when loaded. Is that clear enough?
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:47 AM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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Forgot to state again that the "accerleration" is in "no way" related to the type of prime mover.
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:18 AM
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Look up the Kromrey converter. Its speeds up under load.

Matt
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:41 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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I have seen videos of the kromrey, is it being mass produced yet?
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:22 PM
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No. Several have been replicated but with low COP. But they do speed up under load.

Matt
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:11 AM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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i was just kidding man
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:26 AM
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:04 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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ordered 22AWG today for better results(hopefully)
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:31 PM
lespaul109 lespaul109 is offline
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received wire yesterday, building spool(spindle) today
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:08 PM
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Great discussion
Hello all new to this forum
Coming in a little late, but the other day i heard of Thane Heins's magnet motor & in a couple days had one put together. Thane as you may know is more known for his Bi-Toroid 0 Power Factor transformer, but this Magnet Motor seems like the Answer to vehicle applications, Any news on home builds?

Here's a couple links to my two Perepiteia replication vids
Regenerative Acceleration Replication Part 1
YouTube - Regenerative Acceleration Replication by Kurt part 1

Part 2
YouTube - Regenerative Acceleration Replication by Kurt part 2 (ending)
let me know what you think (if you feel like it
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
Great discussion
Hello all new to this forum
Coming in a little late, but the other day i heard of Thane Heins's magnet motor & in a couple days had one put together. Thane as you may know is more known for his Bi-Toroid 0 Power Factor transformer, but this Magnet Motor seems like the Answer to vehicle applications, Any news on home builds?

Here's a couple links to my two Perepiteia replication vids
Regenerative Acceleration Replication Part 1
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Part 2

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let me know what you think (if you feel like it
Hi Mr Clean,


Could you tell us how the coils are wound and the reasoning as to why the rotor speeds up.i have been following Thane's work for some time but I have not asked for an explanation.Care to enlighten us .


-Gary
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:00 PM
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Hi Gmeat, the only explanation that makes sense to me is what Thane mentioned once (I think), that the BEMF "force" is allowed to exit the air gap due to the conductive rotor, & is simply redirected by the path of least reluctance & the coil configuration.
But the huge thing is that the BEMF/ (the "would-be" losses) are ADDED to the process, instead of SUBTRACTED!
So rather than generator coil - BEMF= regular output
...you would have the gen coil + the BEMF= augmented output
& theoretically the more you load it... the more BEMF you provide
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:22 PM
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mr. clean, nice work on that. How is your main coil wound? Bifilar? BTW are you a time traveler from the year 2038 or do you need to reset your video clock?
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:17 PM
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lol thanks E-wizard yeah i never adjusted the date, kind of adds more sci-fi feeling lol
The center coil is a single 30 gauge wire/ 119ohms wound on a 2 1/2" hex bolt (not the greatest but it works) The outter current winding is 24 gauge at 1 ohm.
The core is basically a length of thin flat galvanized steel, more layers laminated from eachother would prob have better flux tho.
--& i think the outter has too many turns because its output is so low, As well, the entire core is too small, but this was to just see what would happen Lol
Im satisfied that it works, and with the motor only needing 2 amps operating, & less as it spools up, im sure that with the correct balance of HV/HC coils & proper core material, at 3000 rpm, my guess is it would easily surpass 2 amps out.
-even my low wind alternator makes 12V & 3 amps at 150 rpm, & its half the size of the motor, so im optimistic
We'll see i guess
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:21 AM
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I find a couple ppl on another forum dismissing the Heins motor because they had never witnesed OverUnity.
In my opinion, whether or not this can be o/u, (& why the hell not if there's no Lenz)
...its most suited purpose is foremost a propulsion motor, not an electric generator.
People being dis-satisfied and looking for more than 30 watts per coil or whatever it was, while ignoring the usefulness of free acceleration, are being a bit greedy.
If you want big current for little input, build a tesla coil, & step it down, & call it a Don Smith device.
We are talking about a charging current, not an On-demand supply, right?
Getting ANY watts out is great if it doesnt drag the rpm, let alone provide charging AND some (free?) acceleration
( yes i still believe my acceleration hallucinations my motor keeps doing lol

Hey, what about shorting the HV coils by hooking up to the primary on a Bi-toroid???
Shorting while energizing the primary of the transformer
Thoughts?
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:51 PM
AetherScientist AetherScientist is offline
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I have only read a little of this thread.
As you say, the bi-toroid transformer is based in a small modification of a classic transformer.

Thane uses 2 cores with different reluctance, and 3 coils: 1 primary and 2 secondary. The primary coil is in the part of the core of higher reluctance, so he is using reactive current in the primary. Then, the first secondary is between the 2 cores and acts like the primary coil in a classic transformer. The second secondary is like the secondary in a classic transformer.
The key here is that the back emf produced in the second secondary coil cannot travel to the source since the source is directly connected to the core of higher reluctance and back-emf only travels in the material of lower reluctance. So it is not killing the power source and the energy generated is almost "free".

The complication here is that you need 2 cores of different reluctance. I'm developing a system to mimic Heins' bi-toroid transformer without using the 2 different cores. I use a primary "scalar coil" and 2 secondary coils. The core is of the same composition and here the reluctance of the core is not a critic factor since I have modified the primary coil and back emf cannot travel back to the power source.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:55 PM
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New courses added
Two Toroid Gabriel device
Panacea University - Courses

David Klingelhoefer’s open source donation of the “Two Toroid Gabriel device” requires YOUR replication reports OR support to help optimize, validate and improve this effect. NEEDED participation by OPEN SOURCE engineers can be managed in a number of ways to be the most efficient. In one example -A select trusted group of open source enthusiast can mobilize to pool resources together (and others can help with donations) to designate a trusted body with a PRIOR agreement to open source the final outcome. All this can be done with the inclusion of the required public records and credits.
The potential of the open source free energy community to help the public is growing; we have many trusted engineers like Ron P, Peter Lindemann, Gene, Jetijs and (too many more to mention here) MANY OF US can CONSOLIDATE to manage resources for such a project if it is desired. If you are willing to help with individual research reports or pool resources together for such a task please visit the technical threads for the Two Toroid Gabriel Device listed in this document


Credits to ALL . Made for a quick start to new comers will add rep data as we go on.

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Old 05-09-2011, 10:29 AM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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Well my 2 pennies for what its worth.
With my last Bedini SG build I made my cores of soft iron wire. The metal is very magnetic and doesnt seem to hold and magnets once the coil is finished firing. They were little marking flags from Home Depot and removed the plastic orange flag. I bunched them up and used them as the core. I extended them out farther than the flange of my coil by nearly double the length of the main coil. When experimenting with this arrangement I slipped a spool of heavier wire (18 ga) on this extra core piece to see what kind of transformer action I could get off it. There was a real voltage there. But more to my surprise when a load was put across this coil the Bedini's amp draw decreased and the wheel sped up!
I tried with a finer ga wire of around 22 and did not get as good of results. So shorting a coil on a common core equals higher rmp of prime mover and lower amp draw. PLUS usable Voltage and current from the second coil.
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