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  #1  
Old 07-03-2010, 11:05 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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Internet Kill switch

I know this is not the area for this, but there are more people on this area than any other on the board. Do a search for "internet kill switch" This is really @$%&*! UP! How many more liberties of ours can they step on before we wake up one day and this and other great forums that share KNOWLEDGE (which is what they are afraid of) are shut down? Lieberman the sponsor of the bill said he was just looking for an internet like China has! I bet the Chinese people love the totally filtered communist propaganda that they read everyday.. IF they are allowed to read that day.
ADMINS if this needs to be moved so be it. I just thought it should be seen first. Sorry
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:42 PM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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He who controls the news controls society. The internet is a direct competitor to the government/media monopolies on the news and how it's presented. Of course they're going to go after it. Add to this the push to start taxing the business conducted over the internet and it's worse than most people realize...
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:48 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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IT gives the pres control for 120 days. Then a he has to appeal to congress to get it extended. With the way things are going just imagine what could get by us in 120 days without freedom of speech. And that is what this is. Most "sheeple" will prob complain that they cant download music not even realizing they are stealing their liberties one at a time. Cant wait to see what crisis rears its ugly head this time to let this control be enacted.
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:52 PM
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Obama internet 'kill switch' proposed

"One of Australia's top communications experts, University of Sydney associate professor Bjorn Landfeldt, railed against the idea, saying shutting down the internet would "inflict an enormous damage on the entire world".

He said it would be like giving a single country "the right to poison the atmosphere, or poison the ocean". Well that is already happening...

"All our financial systems, all our security systems ... we're so reliant on the internet that if you shut it down there's a question of whether society will continue to operate normally anywhere in the Western world," Landfeldt said in a phone interview. Maybe thats the whole idea? Mass Global upset...

"By doing this they would do the terrorists the biggest favour ever because they would terrorise the rest of the world"." Now who is the terrorist?
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2010, 12:02 AM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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You need to look a bit closer into the bill. The banking/finance, military, and other "crucial" (read that as "not available to the public") servers would be exempt and still in use so as to minimize disruptions to the government and its printing presses and/or financiers on Wall Street or in the Treasury. It would be business as usual for the Aristocracy that rules us but a blackout for we little people...
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:05 AM
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Ya you got watch Joe Lieberman. Thats where you need to do the search. His name in the library of Congress search engine. He has proposed more bills to cut civil liberties than any other senator ever in the history of the country. In the name of national security.
He's a flat totalitarian.
The good thing is though most of Senate belittles most of his propositions. with votes like 2 to 49 against. The second one who usually votes for him is Mccain
He has never successfully passed any legislation along these lines, never.
You gotta remember this guy oversees all the spooks in the government under the Foreign Intelligence Comity.
If you read his legislative history since he has been on the comity you'll see this pattern. He does the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. Whats that called? I forget....
Just laugh, it won't even make it to the floor as piggy back.
Cheers
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:08 AM
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The people in power certainly have not demonstrated the intellectual or even moral capacity to POLICE the majority and make the decisions count for the better, the same people in power today actually.
Enter the gulf spill. This same system that's not policed is probably the a logical reason why today we have more cancers, disease and pollution then ever in human history. Plus less species and ecology.

They certainly dont have the the right decision making in the majority of issues that have transpired yet they want more power and more control to turn off the internet, this is very sinister if you ask me. I am highly suspicious of this.Seems like as the same in the gulf spill case, the class actions and mandates are the only way to keep the foot in the door. On some thing that may or may not be related we got Terra bytes of hard drives which are cheap ATM and have been hording info, in fact i think ill open up a donate a book or info to the Panacea uni site and BACK THAT ALL UP, i guess if people cant access the internet , maybe having some access to basic necessities on backup up info , is perhaps an objective move mean time.

i know some activist groups here near Ren , truth movement Australia who are planing on a few demonstrations/petitions on the internet filters, in Aust its a slower deception it seems, i guess you guys have the hard kill switch, no doubt that Australia will be next guys, this is very sinister indeed.

Ash
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:24 AM
krzysiek krzysiek is offline
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And I don't know why there is so little talk about this...

"internet kill switch" to turn off the internet. Sounds nice..

and in the mean time, Australia pushing for a China-like internet filter that will automatically block 'bad' websites. I wonder what a website must contain to be considered 'bad' by the Government and blocked from usage? Perhaps websites which speak of free energy, or alternative healing or self help methods such as this website and many others.

Then we also have the mandatory requirement for ISP's to record all data of who we speak to over VoIP, our browsing history and possibly who we communicate with via emails. These are being 'pushed' in Australia, yet the people are saying NO WE DO NOT WANT IT, but the ministers are saying 'we are going to push anyway'. What happened to democracy? We are saying NO, they are saying too bad, we are going to go for it anyhow.
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:57 AM
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And I don't know why there is so little talk about this...

"internet kill switch" to turn off the internet. Sounds nice..

and in the mean time, Australia pushing for a China-like internet filter that will automatically block 'bad' websites. I wonder what a website must contain to be considered 'bad' by the Government and blocked from usage? Perhaps websites which speak of free energy, or alternative healing or self help methods such as this website and many others.
The ban list has been leaked, some of the banned sites (up to 10,000 in number) include ones which don't follow the government line (as in, give an opposing view), sites about gay rights, as well as the websites of a tour operator and a dentist. It's basically suppressing freedom of speech/ideas/information, disguised as saving the children from porn.

The following article includes they following interesting quote: Secret forum reveals Oz firewall backroom dealing € The Register

Quote:
Meanwhile further digging inside this forum revealed that departmental officials appear to have been discussing the possibility of making it a criminal offence to advise individuals of means that would enable them to circumvent the filter – even where the means themselves were perfectly legal.

On the kill switch itself: if they are going to allow a small number of organisations to continue to operate, then it's going to be very difficult to actually implement it in the first place - let alone continue to keep the "lights off".

Doing it on a small scale is possible, but on hundreds of thousands of networks (more like millions), which are all interlinked and interdependent - it's going to be damn near impossible. Just so you know, I’m speaking from experience as a network guy - with lots of experience running large scale networks.

Its more hype and BS - than facts, with no thought of what it will do economically.

Maybe time to start setting up old school BBS, but with a modern twist.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:43 PM
krzysiek krzysiek is offline
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Hey Savvy,

Any idea where the list can be found, or is it 'long gone' and covered back up by now? I heard about the dentist website as well..

if we allow them to do what they are doing then I don't even want to imagine what will happen. Just thinking that a site like this one here, could be shut down, from such a filter, or even tried to be black listed by the filter, is kind of scary. And we can't say it won't happen, because they banned a dentists website, what could be so bad about him (it probably wasn't even a forum, little exposure, etc?)

Hopefully it doesn't go through, but I don't know how to help the sitation...

thanks for the clarification of the US govt. kill switch though. It's good to know that the impact won't be so large, but just to clear it up for me (I have little knowledge in this type of stuff) aren't the 'database' servers predominantly located in the US, and to shut them off would obviously cut off worldwide access to those databases (potentially cutting it off from most of the world as well as the US - a worldwide killswitch?)
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:44 PM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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Legislation is less about it "working" and more about incrementalism. Rather than repeal any law that isn't working as advertised (probably more than half the ones they pass) they merely add to it so as to "fix" it.

Most of the members of Congress and I assume many of the other "democratic" governments around the world started off life as lawyers. If it's one thing a lawyer knows how to do it's make the legal code so that only lawyers and judges can interpret it. They don't do this through simplification. Every piece of civil liberty impeding legislation passed is merely their foot in the door to taking it all away. Whether the Americans on this board consider themselves aligned with any particular Party or ideology makes no difference. If the government can stifle any source of news or dictate who, when, how, where someone is allowed to speak then they can control the news and thus control the people. That's what this is about and has been about.

The Supreme Court currently has a majority of judges on the correct side of the 1st Amendment but several recent rulings have been 5 to 4. These latest rulings dealt specifically with the early Amendments in the Bill of Rights. The two biggies, freedom of speech and right to keep and bear arms, were decided 5 to 4. Whatever your views on gun ownership aside, 5 to 4 on freedom of speech?!?!? How close are we to total government control sanctioned by the highest (and supposedly impartial) court in the land?
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:49 PM
krzysiek krzysiek is offline
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Wow, 5 to 4... got a link?
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:35 PM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us.../22scotus.html

I don't like corporations dictating policy but you have to read beyond the catchy titles and news/government spin at the beginning of the article. They spin it as "unrestrained corporate spending" by corporations but the same law banned citizens and/or citizen groups from from running ads of their own...

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soft money (basically untraceable slush funds for political favor) is still banned.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/us.../30donate.html

Citizens United - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A side effect of the original McCain/Feingold law was that 527's rose to fame as they fell outside of the FEC's control.

527 Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:42 PM
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Imagine the economic repercussions. Aside from that I never trusted anyone who wore a suit. Check out the yellow pages of your phone book. The largest advertisers Ive seen in any phone book is lawyers.
History: Eisenhower stated that we did not want to become a military industrial complex. The CIA talked him into letting Gary Powers fly over russia with a spy plane and he was shot down. And boom it started the high tech industrial corporations. Then Nixon goes to China to open up trade. Its been downhill ever since. The money puppeteers sure know what there doing.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:15 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
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An alternative view

Source The internet kill switch and other lies the internet told you -- Engadget

"....Last week, the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs, led by Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) became the subject of some debate when news spread that it was calling for a so-called "internet kill switch" which would give the President the power to shut down the whole darn thing in a state of emergency. Apparently, however, nobody bothered to do any research into the topic until very recently -- and of course, the truth is far more complicated than a horrifying phrase like "internet kill switch." Because as it turns out, according to the 1934 Communications Act (which is still in effect today), the President already has the power to shut down any and all telecommunications systems in situations he or she deems it necessary for national security, and Lieberman's call was for a reassessment of the Act.

So what are Lieberman's evil plans for the 'net? His proposal, S. 3480, is a far more subtle document than the original act, which essentially says "hey, do whatever you have to do, man," and calls for the designation of cyberspace as a 'national asset.' It asks for the private owners of critical infrastructure to develop risk assessment plans, and plans to mitigate that risk, in conjunction with the Department of Homeland Security. There are also several recommended procedures called for in the event of an emergency, but none of them have anything to do with a mechanism to shut anything down, and the director would be expressly prohibited from requiring owners to use any specific mechanism. So... the exact opposite of a kill switch. Also, it's worthwhile to note that the entire proposition calls for these changes to be developed by the private sector itself, rather than imposed on it. Kind of makes the story a little less interesting, that's for sure. Hit up the source -- Joe Lieberman And The Myth of The Internet Kill Switch | TPMDC -- for a far more detailed, insightful account of what's actually going down....."
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:30 PM
everwiser everwiser is offline
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The studies ordered by this bill would be used to evaluate and put into place measures to strengthen the 1934 Telecommunications Act as well as determine the "how to" in controlling domestic servers whenever "deemed" crucial. So while you are correct in saying that the headlines are written to grab our attention and that the details say something different, the end result is potentially the same.

The internet is vast and the business conducted there is not as traceable as those looking for tax revenues would like. There is a movement by those in power to retain that power through a monopoly on information and how it gets dispersed. Just look at China/Google. The internet is basically one of the last "free" domains for the exchanging of information and ideas. Some wish to change that and any legislation giving them the means to do so, no matter how innocuous it may look on the surface, is a step on the road to totalitarianism.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:41 PM
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Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is online now
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impossible

Hi all

To sugest that the internet could be shut down in ANY form is a load of B*** s***. I do not know how anybody thinks that they could do this. Just think about it, there would be a world revolution greater than the revolution of internet itself, come on be real.

Mike
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:00 PM
DrStiffler DrStiffler is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Hi all

To sugest that the internet could be shut down in ANY form is a load of B*** s***. I do not know how anybody thinks that they could do this. Just think about it, there would be a world revolution greater than the revolution of internet itself, come on be real.

Mike
@Michael John Nunnerley

Well stated in simple to understand terms. For those that do not understand what is taking place or could care less, no big deal, yet for the rest of us, when the Internet Goes Down its time to grab the musket and power because that means they are headed your way.

IMHO they want this control just for that reason, to give them a window of time in which to march to you door and demand you weapons, money and children.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:40 PM
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If you understand what the government fears, and what they want, you know what they will attempt to achieve next.

They fear most your independance... if you can take care of yourself - you don't "need" them.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:47 PM
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What is needed is an alternate plan.

They will keep on pushing for corporate control of the web anyway... It will come; they won't ever let up, just keep throwing more money at it, and eventually it will get snuck through the US Senate on some 1:00 AM vote during another news emergency. When it does, it will essentially close off most of what we have now without paying a great deal for access, at a time of great economic problems so most people will be "priced out of the market" for their free access.

So they will use "money" as the method of greatly curtailing the movements that dissent against the status quo... Lol a typical elitist ploy

For instance, they would make site owners and site "subscribers" both pay THEM, the corporations, for access. They can charge what ever they like.

They use the excuses of "pron" (which they allow with ever-increasing profusion despite many laws that COULD be used to cut it down but are DELIBERATELY not being enforced), and stuff like "video downloading" to make it sound like people are "bandwidth hogs", and "pirates". But the sick thing about it is, is that the text-based forums will suffer too... that have very minimal bandwidth requirements and obviously no pron.. Those are just lame excuses for simply blatantly taking control.

BTW, these corps that are now lobbying for this, did not build the internet, they only profit billions a year from it now lol... But apparently the concept of simply profiting from it somehow equates to "ownership"

And they will eventually succeed, i think. Because this is what they all want, tightly controlled media in all forms that squashes dissent and allows only THEIR messages to reach the masses.

So what we need, is a "Plan B", even if we have to go back to the old BBS and 9600 baud modem days... Or something like "telenet". I don't think that they could stop that very easily; as long as land line telephone communication systems still exist... And they would need a whole new set of Laws to go after it... and since their plans to take the Internet over use excuses that would not be valid for BBS; they would need new excuses too

But the point would be, that a global method of communicating ideas and collaborating MUST exist for us, even if the internet is taken away from most of us through their charging schemes. We can get by with much smaller bandwidths if we have to.

Anybody got any good ideas? Perhaps now is the time to experiment around with them.

Lol, and to buy an old phone modem to keep around
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:00 PM
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jibbguy

Maybe a "ground" based communications ( a true "underground" internet )
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:26 PM
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Have any enterprising Ham radio operators come up with a way to send data and network via shortwave? It would seem this would be an alternative. Although the airwaves are supposedly well regulated, I'd bet enforcement would be a bear...

@MJN. You're right but, push come to shove, the force of government and its extension, the modern military, could cause a lot of problems. Who would have said 50 years ago that our government would/could suspend Habeas Corpus and torture whoever they deem to be an "enemy combatant" and/or authorize the assassination of U.S. citizens by Presidential order/decree?
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:36 PM
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So how many people think the Internet is actually such an organized event that it could be shut down?
Even if they wrote the law, Is it possible?

Matt
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:37 PM
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Rebuilding America's Defenses

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf In this neocon document made popular after 9/11, it states the desire of the DoD to place security or control on the internet in case of or to prevent a cyber-war. Of course they can make it look like they have some sort of legitimate reason for clamping down on the internet whenever they want. It is the same document describing a need for a "new Pearl Harbor" in order to expedite their agenda. (9/11) Old-school bbs systems are still in use all over the place and they could and probably should become more popular. It is way more discreet than having it on the internet. I'm sure everything from a cb radio, ham radio, walkie talkies, cell phones and every other wireless means of communication including part 15 low power am methods can be rigged up to a modem for two way computer communication. Bedini has shown a ground communication system on the internet for years but nobody has really built it to see that it actually does work including making all plant life around take on prehistoric monstrous sizes - lol I only know one person that did experiments with it and that is it but it is pretty straight forward.
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:47 PM
DrStiffler DrStiffler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everwiser View Post
Have any enterprising Ham radio operators come up with a way to send data and network via shortwave? It would seem this would be an alternative. Although the airwaves are supposedly well regulated, I'd bet enforcement would be a bear...

@MJN. You're right but, push come to shove, the force of government and its extension, the modern military, could cause a lot of problems. Who would have said 50 years ago that our government would/could suspend Habeas Corpus and torture whoever they deem to be an "enemy combatant" and/or authorize the assassination of U.S. citizens by Presidential order/decree?
@all
Its been mentioned already and is so very true. "You Need A Plan!". Governments are now so pervasive that a group can not be formed of like think individuals because it will be infiltrated and sold out. No "Freedom" meetings. It has to start with the individual and family. Food, water, protection. Food for a year, yes year and more if possible. A way to filter rain and or contaminated water. Protection, not just from a a corrupt government, but from those that will steal from you because they were to stupid or lazy to do what is needed for themselves.

Ham Radio has always been my idea, yet if the satellites are working they will track you very fast and them they have very efficient jamming equipment.

My feeling and that of many of my associates is as I have stated, prepare, plan your moves and how you will defend your life and liberty. How to cook with a minimal heat signature, how to handle waste disposal when sewage pumping systems are out,how to handle extreme heat and cold weather. What can be your transportation mode, you won't have gasoline. You will have to hid from the satellites when the roundup begins, do you know how, the shielding needed, the signature you generate?

It's not for internet banter and boasting, this is real and you need to understand this and start yourself. Get some seeds, build a water filter, obtain some material to reduce your signature.

Folks this is no game, this is real....
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:53 PM
tsakou tsakou is offline
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Freenet project

What we discuss here, has been in the mind of some people, some years ago. They decided to build a project. We have to know it's existence.

The Freenet Project - /index
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:04 PM
dragon dragon is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf In this neocon document made popular after 9/11, it states the desire of the DoD to place security or control on the internet in case of or to prevent a cyber-war. Of course they can make it look like they have some sort of legitimate reason for clamping down on the internet whenever they want. It is the same document describing a need for a "new Pearl Harbor" in order to expedite their agenda. (9/11) Old-school bbs systems are still in use all over the place and they could and probably should become more popular. It is way more discreet than having it on the internet. I'm sure everything from a cb radio, ham radio, walkie talkies, cell phones and every other wireless means of communication including part 15 low power am methods can be rigged up to a modem for two way computer communication. Bedini has shown a ground communication system on the internet for years but nobody has really built it to see that it actually does work including making all plant life around take on prehistoric monstrous sizes - lol I only know one person that did experiments with it and that is it but it is pretty straight forward.
Aaron, do you have a link to bedinis ground comm system?
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Old 07-04-2010, 10:37 PM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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@all
Its been mentioned already and is so very true. "You Need A Plan!". Governments are now so pervasive that a group can not be formed of like think individuals because it will be infiltrated and sold out. No "Freedom" meetings. It has to start with the individual and family. Food, water, protection. Food for a year, yes year and more if possible. A way to filter rain and or contaminated water. Protection, not just from a a corrupt government, but from those that will steal from you because they were to stupid or lazy to do what is needed for themselves.

Ham Radio has always been my idea, yet if the satellites are working they will track you very fast and them they have very efficient jamming equipment.

My feeling and that of many of my associates is as I have stated, prepare, plan your moves and how you will defend your life and liberty. How to cook with a minimal heat signature, how to handle waste disposal when sewage pumping systems are out,how to handle extreme heat and cold weather. What can be your transportation mode, you won't have gasoline. You will have to hid from the satellites when the roundup begins, do you know how, the shielding needed, the signature you generate?

It's not for internet banter and boasting, this is real and you need to understand this and start yourself. Get some seeds, build a water filter, obtain some material to reduce your signature.

Folks this is no game, this is real....
Dr. stifler these are my sentiments exactly. IT only takes a little food panic for most to be completely lost. The round up will happen. Any that can think for themselves and spread "hate or racism" or whatever they title it to get free thinkers away from the sheep. Why would OUR government have a list of Veterans as potential threats to the government. Veterans we have fought for other peoples freedom. Like em or hate em the Tea PArty folks are decent human beings. they are a threat to their 50 year brainwashing campaign. there has not been one rally that has taken place that had a riot, a flaming dumpster, or trash thrown everywhere. Can the G20 summit say that? Freethinkers on this and other sites surely have been identified. This message has probably already been scanned and cataloged. For those that dont listen you may wish to start thinking twice. Its not going to hurt nothing. whats a little preparedness?
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:04 PM
DrStiffler DrStiffler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
http://www.newamericancentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf In this neocon document made popular after 9/11, it states the desire of the DoD to place security or control on the internet in case of or to prevent a cyber-war. Of course they can make it look like they have some sort of legitimate reason for clamping down on the internet whenever they want. It is the same document describing a need for a "new Pearl Harbor" in order to expedite their agenda. (9/11) Old-school bbs systems are still in use all over the place and they could and probably should become more popular. It is way more discreet than having it on the internet. I'm sure everything from a cb radio, ham radio, walkie talkies, cell phones and every other wireless means of communication including part 15 low power am methods can be rigged up to a modem for two way computer communication. Bedini has shown a ground communication system on the internet for years but nobody has really built it to see that it actually does work including making all plant life around take on prehistoric monstrous sizes - lol I only know one person that did experiments with it and that is it but it is pretty straight forward.
@Aaron
Where can we find these diagrams? Have a few young men out of school for the summer looking form something to do and learn?

Thanks
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:52 PM
Matthew Jones's Avatar
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrichie View Post
Like em or hate em the Tea PArty folks are decent human beings. they are a threat to their 50 year brainwashing campaign.
LOL, LOL

And they'll VOTE republican for the same reason the Christian folks do. Because the republicans say what they want to hear be it lower taxes or a ban on abortion. Then they turn around invade countries for there natural resources. Strip citizen rights for national security. **** on the poor. Cut taxes and regulation on cooperations so they can pollute. Create false inflation so it crash. Allow media like Fox News to dominate the discussion. Alter history in text books. Spend trillions of unmarked dollars in the military industrial complex, and on, and on, and on....
But that what uneducated cultists do. They expect different results from doing the same thing over and over.

Ya thats brilliant another round of cookoo dumb asses running this country. Thats just what we need.
That will surly bring the doom and gloom in. If you think the current situation is bad or getting worse thats just what you need. Buffoon's on the loose.

I'll tell ya the truth I am kinda hoping you goof ball conspiracy nuts are telling the truth about the impending government kill off of its citizens. And I hope its the truth.
We need less people. Alot less. The ground needs fertilized and most of ya'll really need to get out of the business of having kids. Cause god can't help the generation of tea bag children that are coming.

Anybody seen "Idiocracy" the movie

Sign me up I am in for some extermination. I wanna help!!!!!

Before I leave I'll ask again...
Quote:
So how many people think the Internet is actually such an organized event that it could be shut down?
Even if they wrote the law, Is it possible?
And while were at it... What percentage of IP carriers are located in the united states. How many service providers are world wide and what percentage of them are US?
How much of the US economy is based on the Internet?

See if you would get out of your little world and look up a few facts every now and then (And that is not the **** Alex Jones is selling) you might realize what a large delima it would be to even consider shutting down the Internet. It would be cheaper to repair it after it had been attacked.

I'll put flowers next to your corpse, I promise..
Matt
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